54 replies to this topic

[chumma]

Dima Papdopolous is usually very reliable and he just dropped a tweet "a little birdy told me Sauber is up for sale again, two possible investors pulled back"

That doesnt sound very good...

[Sakae]

Perhaps that (almost forgotten) visit last year by VW was not just to drink schnapps and a couple of espressos with Mr. Sauber; despite having VW entering F1 under Ecclestone's rules seems very remote idea at the moment, Audi on the track would be just smashing.

Edited by Sakae, 14 March 2013 - 08:21.

[eronrules]

sauber and Lotusf1 are the most 'IN trouble, To be sold' teams in the paddock ATM. take it with a pinch of salt.

[amppatel]

sauber and Lotusf1 are the most 'IN trouble, To be sold' teams in the paddock ATM. take it with a pinch of salt.

I disagree - FI have that record.... by far

Edited by amppatel, 14 March 2013 - 08:36.

[One]

This is the chance for Hobda to a step in to Formula One as the constructor. Sauber possesses incredible precision, performance, presentation that match expectations of the board. The record they have is the one that suits Honda the most on the current paddock. Hope Sauber has good financial records as well.

Edited by One, 14 March 2013 - 08:44.

[Baddoer]

No.

[Bloggsworth]

This is the chance for Hobda to a step in to Formula One as the constructor. Sauber possesses incredible precision, performance, presentation that match expectations of the board. The record they have is the one that suits Honda the most on the current paddock. Hope Sauber has good financial records as well.

Which would all disappear when the dead corporate hand was laid upon them...

[mattferg]

This is the chance for Hobda to a step in to Formula One as the constructor. Sauber possesses incredible precision, performance, presentation that match expectations of the board. The record they have is the one that suits Honda the most on the current paddock. Hope Sauber has good financial records as well.

I completely disagree - the record that suits them most is McLaren, so what would make most sense is to supply engines to them. BMW Sauber didn't turn out well and nor did Honda's F1 team.

Edited by mattferg, 14 March 2013 - 09:14.

[F1ultimate]

No.

Why not?

Peter Sauber resigned from his position as team principal last year which could have been the first step in releasing control of the team and paving way for an acquisition.

[peroa]

This is the chance for Hobda to a step in to Formula One as the constructor. Sauber possesses incredible precision, performance, presentation that match expectations of the board. The record they have is the one that suits Honda the most on the current paddock. Hope Sauber has good financial records as well.

lol!
a) Honda will never run an F1 team again.
b) Sauber has debts bordering on triple million € figures

[chumma]

This is the chance for Hobda to a step in to Formula One as the constructor. Sauber possesses incredible precision, performance, presentation that match expectations of the board. The record they have is the one that suits Honda the most on the current paddock. Hope Sauber has good financial records as well.

Won't happen with Sauber, Honda don't want their own team, they want engine supply.

[Peat]

The team has been on 'the market' ever since Peter Sauber took back control. I don't think it's any secret.

[mattferg]

The team has been on 'the market' ever since Peter Sauber took back control. I don't think it's any secret.

Tbh apart from the top 4 "brands" in F1 (Ferrari, Williams, McLaren and Red Bull) all the teams are "up for sale" and have their price.

[chumma]

The team has been on 'the market' ever since Peter Sauber took back control. I don't think it's any secret.

I don't think so, Dima says on sale 'again', and I would back him over most, he never leaks things without concrete evidence and to my knowledge I don't think he's been wrong yet? I know Peter was hopnig to secure future for the team, but the words 'for sale' i don't think fit.

[Jovanotti]

In an article on Peter Sauber from today:

"There's no end in sight [for Sauber] for financial reasons"
http://www.blick.ch/...-id2237090.html

Benoit is as close to Sauber as it gets. I won't believe any of these stories 'til I've heard his opinion.

b) Sauber has debts bordering on triple million € figures

You got a source for that one?

[mattferg]

Could this possibly link with the other rumour going around of Telmex going to McLaren? If they left Sauber and only sponsored McLaren, Sauber would be pretty short on cash and be looking for investors/new sponsors.

[peroa]

@Jovanotti

Sure. (in german, though)
http://www.motorspor...-passieren.html
The currency is not mentioned, so it could be in swiss francs, doesn't change the problem though.

Edited by peroa, 14 March 2013 - 09:52.

[Jovanotti]

Cheers peroa

Edited by Jovanotti, 14 March 2013 - 09:51.

[Brother Fox]

If the price drops enough I'd be interested.

[One]

lol!
a) Honda will never run an F1 team again.
b) Sauber has debts bordering on triple million € figures

Com'on.

Honda to buy Sauber and rebrand it as Honda works, this is the best scenario for both parties.

But this does mean a blow to Mclaren. It works always like that.

Putting on millions on the team like Sauber is A LOT SMARTER than inventing in anything else.

1. It is better than chashing in Force India's deficit.
2. May or May not will costs hundreds of millions at Lotus. Lotus owners will pull most money from Honda for their image for illusion-results. Just imagine Paying Millions for NOTHING to LOTUS's illusion! Next year Alison may not be there including Kimi and Boullier will do all manipulation to keep his boy on top of real racer Kimi.

Go for Sauber that is the BEST.

[mattferg]

Com'on.

Honda to buy Sauber and rebrand it as Honda works, this is the best scenario for both parties.

But this does mean a blow to Mclaren. It works always like that.

Putting on millions on the team like Sauber is A LOT SMARTER than inventing in anything else.

1. It is better than chashing in Force India's deficit.
2. May or May not will costs hundreds of millions at Lotus. Lotus owners will pull most money from Honda for their image for illusion-results. Just imagine Paying Millions for NOTHING to LOTUS's illusion! Next year Alison may not be there including Kimi and Boullier will do all manipulation to keep his boy on top of real racer Kimi.

Go for Sauber that is the BEST.

You're kidding, right? BMW Sauber was disastrous, as was the last Honda works team. Peter Sauber would want his name to stay in F1, like Enzo Ferrari or Bruce McLaren. He'd hate for it to be rebranded Honda. So not the best solution for him.

On Honda's side they'd have to pump in loads of money, would be committed long term and have their name stamped everywhere if something goes wrong. Compare this to McLaren where they can invest less, leave at some point and get one of the best set up teams in F1 so they'd have the best chance of winning.

Also your whole paragraph about Lotus makes no sense - do you have a hatred for them? Bit weird.

Best scenario for Sauber is for someone to invest like Toto Wolff in Williams. Best scenario for Honda is to partner McLaren. Please don't be dillusional :-)

Edited by mattferg, 14 March 2013 - 12:45.

[noikeee]

If you were a serious investor - manufacturer, or owner of a massive company looking to make it a global name, Red Bull/Benetton style - Lotus and Sauber are the 2 obvious candidates for a team to buy. They are the strongest teams that could be interested in such a deal, have survived in a fairly stable way a massive financial crisis and the departure of a manufacturer, have got a huge amount of experience in F1, and vastly overachieve for their means. It doesn't really surprise me albeit I'd love to retain the name Sauber in F1.

Force India would be a lot cheaper and therefore probably decent value too. But if you just want to be part of the playground you could probably buy something like Marussia or even Toro Rosso at a fraction of the price, and if you want to win Lotus and Sauber are much better options.

[sopa]

If you were a serious investor - manufacturer, or owner of a massive company looking to make it a global name, Red Bull/Benetton style - Lotus and Sauber are the 2 obvious candidates for a team to buy.

The problem with Sauber is that they are located 'nowhere'. Hard to build up a top team there, where it is difficult to hire top-level engineers. Or groom a new generation of a top-level engineering team. Newey doesn't want to move out of UK and sure several others think the same.

[eronrules]

one of the problems with sauberF1 , as was with Toyota F1 and HRT for that fact, is that their base is at Hinwil, switzerland, which is not the motorsport hub. BMW, among other managerial failures, suffered due to this. it's not attractive in acquiring new engineers as well as sponsors. now any new buyer will have to weigh in this factor when (and if ) they want to buy/sponsor sauber.

[One]

You're kidding, right?

Actually, yes. I am not believing that Honda will buy Sauber just because I say so. So you are entirely correct. I am just kidding, or making note on what I, personally, think is the right thing to do.

BMW Sauber was disastrous, as was the last Honda works team. Peter Sauber would want his name to stay in F1, like Enzo Ferrari or Bruce McLaren. He'd hate for it to be rebranded Honda. So not the best solution for him.

Wellyes and no. The last time around Sauber opted to move slowly fro his to BMW. He is now retired and as of now, I am not too sure what Monishka CAN do, rather than what she WANTS to do.

On Honda's side they'd have to pump in loads of money,

Entirely disagree. Honda will not charge loads of monies. Rather they should keep the operation as small as possibly can, if they were to aim win the title. Why? Because any teams would do that, any team except Toyota, o matter how much in total might be.
there is fine line between making it too expensive and paying a lot of money.
Apparently Honda should never buy team that is too expensive. If it cost a lot of money then they can, if they so wish. IMHO LOTUS and FI falls into the first categoru and the Sauber the Second. But the best is to set up small operation like Super Aguri and keep it as small as it can avoid all excess like Toyota did.

would be committed long term and have their name stamped everywhere if something goes wrong.

There we go, you are right.
Therefore Honda should spend as little monies as possible! No excessive cost for FRY!

Compare this to McLaren where they can invest less, leave at some point and get one of the best set up teams in F1 so they'd have the best chance of winning.

Well well, this is the exact reason as to why Mclaren should be HONDA's engine customer!

Also your whole paragraph about Lotus makes no sense - do you have a hatred for them? Bit weird.

Well Kimi is the Best on this earth possibly human being can be, and Romain is the most brilliant man on track, but who makes accident too often. I can hardly justify his second year, there are lots of guys with more talent and speed, if so wish more cash. Lotus could have lured Perez if the team was awake. Lotus did not just because this option was never concerned. Imagine TELMEX money on the car development in the Enstone car. I just can't, such a potential.

Best scenario for Sauber is for someone to invest like Toto Wolff in Williams. Best scenario for Honda is to partner McLaren. Please don't be dillusional :-)

Wrong again... Toto put his GF in test role. I mean... As of Mclaren, I think they should go their own way.

[mattferg]

Actually, yes. I am not believing that Honda will buy Sauber just because I say so. So you are entirely correct. I am just kidding, or making note on what I, personally, think is the right thing to do.

Wellyes and no. The last time around Sauber opted to move slowly fro his to BMW. He is now retired and as of now, I am not too sure what Monishka CAN do, rather than what she WANTS to do.

Entirely disagree. Honda will not charge loads of monies. Rather they should keep the operation as small as possibly can, if they were to aim win the title. Why? Because any teams would do that, any team except Toyota, o matter how much in total might be.
there is fine line between making it too expensive and paying a lot of money.
Apparently Honda should never buy team that is too expensive. If it cost a lot of money then they can, if they so wish. IMHO LOTUS and FI falls into the first categoru and the Sauber the Second. But the best is to set up small operation like Super Aguri and keep it as small as it can avoid all excess like Toyota did.

Err what? I wasn't talking about the price of the team at all, I was talking about the amount of money they'd have to put in to run the team. Barring Enstone, all the top teams have huge budgets at the moment, and have to put in millions to stay competitive. Keep the team as small as possible, are you trolling? xD the teams that are kept as small as possible are Caterham and Marussia.

How is Force India too expensive? Their performance is on par with Sauber and they're likely going to sell for a lot cheaper.

There we go, you are right.
Therefore Honda should spend as little monies as possible! No excessive cost for FRY!

No, they should spend the amount of money they want to as effectively as possible. Engine supplier is the way to do that, especially with the 2014 refresh.

Well well, this is the exact reason as to why Mclaren should be HONDA's engine customer!

No, they should be the Honda works team. It makes the most sense for both parties. For McLaren to stay competitive they need to be a works team, same goes for Honda. Beneficial to both parties.

Well Kimi is the Best on this earth possibly human being can be, and Romain is the most brilliant man on track, but who makes accident too often. I can hardly justify his second year, there are lots of guys with more talent and speed, if so wish more cash. Lotus could have lured Perez if the team was awake. Lotus did not just because this option was never concerned. Imagine TELMEX money on the car development in the Enstone car. I just can't, such a potential

Again this makes no sense - bipolar view of what you said in your last post.

Wrong again... Toto put his GF in test role. I mean... As of Mclaren, I think they should go their own way.

Did this negatively affect the team in any way? No. Barring this Toto let Williams be Williams, while he had his input and invested serious money. This makes the most sense for Sauber.

McLaren can't afford/aren't set up to make their own F1 engines.

Edited by mattferg, 14 March 2013 - 13:53.

[One]

Err what? I wasn't talking about the price of the team at all, I was talking about the amount of money they'd have to put in to run the team. Barring Enstone, all the top teams have huge budgets at the moment, and have to put in millions to stay competitive. Keep the team as small as possible, are you trolling? xD the teams that are kept as small as possible are Caterham and Marussia.

How is Force India too expensive? Their performance is on par with Sauber and they're likely going to sell for a lot cheaper.



No, they should spend the amount of money they want to as effectively as possible. Engine supplier is the way to do that, especially with the 2014 refresh.



No, they should be the Honda works team. It makes the most sense for both parties. For McLaren to stay competitive they need to be a works team, same goes for Honda. Beneficial to both parties.



Again this makes no sense - bipolar view of what you said in your last post.



Did this negatively affect the team in any way? No. Barring this Toto let Williams be Williams, while he had his input and invested serious money. This makes the most sense for Sauber.

McLaren can't afford/aren't set up to make their own F1 engines.

I agree to disagree.

[JRizzle86]

This is the chance for Hobda to a step in to Formula One as the constructor. Sauber possesses incredible precision, performance, presentation that match expectations of the board. The record they have is the one that suits Honda the most on the current paddock. Hope Sauber has good financial records as well.

Maybe Hobda is interested in Sauber but i'm pretty sure McLaren Honda is a done deal.

[One]

Maybe Hobda is interested in Sauber but i'm pretty sure McLaren Honda is a done deal.

It actually does not matter if Honda supply engine to Mclaren or not, as long as there is no agreements made for the price. I am sure they will reach agreements and the relationships will be great. What it matters is if Honda joins on the grid as constructor or not. This is a separate question to selling engine to Mclaren.

[mattferg]

It actually does not matter if Honda supply engine to Mclaren or not, as long as there is no agreements made for the price. I am sure they will reach agreements and the relationships will be great. What it matters is if Honda joins on the grid as constructor or not. This is a separate question to selling engine to Mclaren.

Actually this thread is about Sauber up for sale.

[pdac]

Maybe Hobda is interested in Sauber but i'm pretty sure McLaren Honda is a done deal.

Or maybe Honda will buy Ferrari

[One]

Actually this thread is about Sauber up for sale.

Yes, and therefore it relats when honda shows interests in purchase. If not, then no.

Sauber is not in such a bad shape, I assume, the question remains why Sauber took decision to replace Kamui with Guiterrez if he could not save or increase TELMEX involvement. Kamui has solid money from the bid, therefore this i not the best situation.

[mattferg]

Yes, and therefore it relats when honda shows interests in purchase. If not, then no.

Sauber is not in such a bad shape, I assume, the question remains why Sauber took decision to replace Kamui with Guiterrez if he could not save or increase TELMEX involvement. Kamui has solid money from the bid, therefore this i not the best situation.

And has Honda shown interest in the purchase of Sauber? If so please link I'd love to see the info you're referring to

[One]

And has Honda shown interest in the purchase of Sauber? If so please link I'd love to see the info you're referring to

No.

[Ragingjamaican]

I wouldn't call BMW a disaster in F1 when they had a team.

They improved from year to year until 2009, - where there were major rule changes which caught out the big teams - if they were still around, I reckon they would be doing a much better job than Mercedes, and hassling the top teams.

Edited by Ragingjamaican, 14 March 2013 - 17:01.

[charly0418]

I can see this happening if you connect the dots

McLaren is probably going to have Telmex as their primary sponsor in 2014, so they might leave Sauber. Whch would leave Sauber without half their sponsors.

[midgrid]

I wouldn't call BMW a disaster in F1 when they had a team.

They improved from year to year until 2009, - where there were major rule changes which caught out the big teams - if they were still around, I reckon they would be doing a much better job than Mercedes, and hassling the top teams.

Fully agree with this.

(Although independent Sauber almost beat Mercedes last year without manufacturer support.)

[Dolph]

lol!
a) Honda will never run an F1 team again.

I bet they do it 4-5 times during my lifetime

[Dolph]

You're kidding, right? BMW Sauber was disastrous, as was the last Honda works team. Peter Sauber would want his name to stay in F1, like Enzo Ferrari or Bruce McLaren. He'd hate for it to be rebranded Honda. So not the best solution for him.

On Honda's side they'd have to pump in loads of money, would be committed long term and have their name stamped everywhere if something goes wrong. Compare this to McLaren where they can invest less, leave at some point and get one of the best set up teams in F1 so they'd have the best chance of winning.

Also your whole paragraph about Lotus makes no sense - do you have a hatred for them? Bit weird.

Best scenario for Sauber is for someone to invest like Toto Wolff in Williams. Best scenario for Honda is to partner McLaren. Please don't be dillusional :-)

Go easy on the drama, matt. BMW was second in 2007 and the Honda works team won the WDC & WCC in 2009 under a new name.

[mattferg]

Go easy on the drama, matt. BMW was second in 2007 and the Honda works team won the WDC & WCC in 2009 under a new name.

Second because of a disqualification. BMW Sauber, much like Honda, only had 1 win in their entire lifespan. Compared to the money pumped into both that's pretty bad.
As for Brawn - they're Brawn-Mercedes, not Honda. As people have said before, if Honda had carried on it's not definite they would've won the championship. They would've come earlier to testing, meaning their design could've been copied, and their engine would've been weaker (Honda V8 < Mercedes V8.)

Edited by mattferg, 14 March 2013 - 19:57.

[FernuttonHulkkonen]

I wouldn't call BMW a disaster in F1 when they had a team.

They improved from year to year until 2009, - where there were major rule changes which caught out the big teams - if they were still around, I reckon they would be doing a much better job than Mercedes, and hassling the top teams.

I also totally agree with you

Sauber is much more capable than the Brackley team, for instance

During the BMW years, they were the only team that managed to challenge Ferrari and Mclaren. All other riches couldn't do that such as Toyota, Honda(now Mercedes) and not even RBR which already had Newey since 2006/2007

[August]

I doubt Peter Sauber would've given such a big share of the team to Monisha Kaltenborn had there been potential buyers then. So, this is really new or not true.

[mattferg]

I also totally agree with you

Sauber is much more capable than the Brackley team, for instance

During the BMW years, they were the only team that managed to challenge Ferrari and Mclaren. All other riches couldn't do that such as Toyota, Honda(now Mercedes) and not even RBR which already had Newey since 2006/2007

Err what, BMW Sauber only won one race, and that was AFTER Honda won one with Jenson. There were plenty of challengers, including Renault who won the championship in 2006 (the first year of BMW Sauber) and 2 race wins in 2008, more than BMW Sauber did.

[peroa]

According to AMUS, 5 teams don't know how they will finish the season.
http://www.auto-moto...er-6790911.html
It's getting very serious for F1.

[jals99]

According to AMUS, 5 teams don't know how they will finish the season.
http://www.auto-moto...er-6790911.html
It's getting very serious for F1.

Hope it is just usual AMuS panic

[FernuttonHulkkonen]

Err what, BMW Sauber only won one race, and that was AFTER Honda won one with Jenson. There were plenty of challengers, including Renault who won the championship in 2006 (the first year of BMW Sauber) and 2 race wins in 2008, more than BMW Sauber did.

You're just seeing things in a way to suit some kind of agenda

Honda(Hungary 2006) and Renault(2008) wins were complete flukes on crazy races.

After 2007, the only team that PACE-WISE challenged Ferrari and Mclaren was BMW. All the others were a big failure compared and that applies to: Toyota, Honda, Renault, Red Bull

[spacekid]

It was sad to see Sauber running with so little sponsorship on their cars.

[aray]

this team does so many good things with so little budget,yet nobody comes to support them as sponsor...

[Bunchies]

Yea...shoulda kept Kamui.

Can't imagine Gutierrez is going to be cheap.

[Santosdf]

Yea...shoulda kept Kamui.

Can't imagine Gutierrez is going to be cheap.

youngest driver ,first ever qualy in F1, on a very wet track.......he will do just fine just give a little time.