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Hamilton - 'Former drivers don't know what they're talking about'


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#1 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:42

According to ESPN, Hamilton hits out at Sir Jacky Stewart and Stirling Moss on their opinion on his move to Mercedes.

Never a dull moment, as they say. :)

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/103496.html

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#2 Masenco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:49

According to ESPN, Hamilton hits out at Sir Jacky Stewart and Stirling Moss on their opinion on his move to Mercedes.

Never a dull moment, as they say. :)

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/103496.html


Sounds like he was affected by their criticism of his move to merc and is now having a bit of a 'told you so' moment.
Can't blame him, I dislike when people criticize others without knowing the full picture; they don't lose anything by being so negative, but it does affect the person they are criticizing.
Lewis has every right to point out that they incorrectly criticized him.

#3 SunnyENTP

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:52

Sounds like Jackie and Moss would fit right well on this forum :D

#4 MikeV1987

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:52

Lewis is right imo, IIRC Jackie Stewart said something about Vettel not being a great becuase he has had the fastest car, even though when Jackie won his WDCs, he had the the fastest cars. Bit of a double standard no?

I usually take what the old folks say with a grain of salt, I do not blame Hamilton one bit for leaving the most corporate team on the grid.

#5 Nigol

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:55

IIRC Jackie Stewart said something about Vettel not being a great becuase he has had the fastest car, even though when Jackie won his WDCs, he had the the fastest cars. Bit of a double standard no?


Erm, why? He didn't say something like "he isn't great like me", so why double standard? :confused:

#6 Jon83

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:57

Lewis is bang-on IMO.

He had 6 years with McLaren (as an F1 driver that is) and only on two of those did the team, which likes to think of itself as the top team in the sport, produce a car which was good enough for the WDC. It isn't as if he has left an unbeatable team and going by their start to the season, they won't be anywhere near even Mercedes for the next few races at least.

Frankly, people like Jackie Stewart have started to bore me.

#7 crespo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:58

Good on him. He can talk back all he wants regarding that subject.

#8 maverick69

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:01

Damn right too

#9 MikeV1987

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:03

Erm, why? He didn't say something like "he isn't great like me", so why double standard? :confused:


He didn't say that no, but he is regarded as a great and he knows it. Out of all the old guys, JS is probably the one I like the least, if Hamilton was joining Lotus you would not hear a peep from Jackie with that big fat Genii logo on his shirt.

#10 P123

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:07

According to ESPN, Hamilton hits out at Sir Jacky Stewart and Stirling Moss on their opinion on his move to Mercedes.

Never a dull moment, as they say. :)

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/103496.html


That excites you? Are you suggesting by starting this topic that there is something extraordinary in what has been said, or are you going to create dozens of topics whenever there is an article relating to Hamilton (I ask only becuase you mocked such a scenrio in another topic!).

I've no idea what Moss or Stewart said. Ex-drivers talk a lot. Sometimes they talk a lot of sense, other times it's the opposite! This is along the lines of the speculation in the topic about the move to Mercedes being Hamilton's biggest mistake of his career.

#11 Smitla321

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:19

Fair play to him I say, he has made the right decision and he is now enjoying the benefits! People slated him when he left McLaren......

#12 UPRC

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:33

I agree with Lewis 100%. Former drivers, especially ones from eras in which F1 was very different, like to run their mouths a bit too much in my opinion.

#13 BRG

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:35

Lewis is right imo, IIRC Jackie Stewart said something about Vettel not being a great becuase he has had the fastest car, even though when Jackie won his WDCs, he had the the fastest cars. Bit of a double standard no?

You think that the Matra MS10 and MS80 were the fastest cars in 1969? You are entitled to your opinion, but pretty well everyone else knows that the Lotus 49 was the superior car that year, and the McLaren and Brabham that year were easily as good or better as well.

And you think that the Tyrrell 001 and 003 cars of 1971, the first products of that team and built in a wood yard, were better than the revolutionary Lotus 72, built by best team of that era? Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but pretty well everyone else knows that the Lotus was the best car of the day.

You may be right about 1973 although Tyrrell was hardly a Red Bull in comparison to its competitors.

As for Vettel, I think you are in a minority if you believe that the Red Bull cars were not substantially better than their competition in his WDC seasons.

#14 SpaMaster

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:36

Er, I don't know what Mercedes has said to justify what he is saying as right according to some of you. If McLaren struggling is the reason, well, that's not a good reason.

#15 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:50

That excites you? Are you suggesting by starting this topic that there is something extraordinary in what has been said, or are you going to create dozens of topics whenever there is an article relating to Hamilton (I ask only becuase you mocked such a scenrio in another topic!).

I've no idea what Moss or Stewart said. Ex-drivers talk a lot. Sometimes they talk a lot of sense, other times it's the opposite! This is along the lines of the speculation in the topic about the move to Mercedes being Hamilton's biggest mistake of his career.


I found it a rather amusing article, not taking it very seriously. ESPN is stretching it very far to state 'he hits out' and I dont know what exactly Moss or Stewart have said. I only know they talk a lot, they love to give their opinion on everything related to F1 and sometimes the subjects bite back. Judging from Mercedes form Hamilton has a point.


Edited by MightyMoose, 19 March 2013 - 16:35.
Removed: Deleted quote and redundant reply


#16 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:56

Lewis is right imo, IIRC Jackie Stewart said something about Vettel not being a great becuase he has had the fastest car, even though when Jackie won his WDCs, he had the the fastest cars. Bit of a double standard no?


The Lotus 72 was the fastest car in the '73 season.

Ronnie Peterson took 9 out of 15 poles that year, and were it not for a less than stellar start to the year, I believe Ronnie would have won the title that year. Jackie did not get that title easily.

Edited by BoschKurve, 19 March 2013 - 13:57.


#17 SCEPurple

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:59

Love the thought of this ruffling lady Jackie's feathers.

#18 BenettonB192

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:17

Have to agree with him on that one. Their opinions are often as all over the place as some random guys on this forum.

#19 discover23

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:25

Old farts in some cases lose objectivity. :cool:

Edited by discover23, 19 March 2013 - 14:25.


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#20 Santuri9

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:29

To be fair, when Hamilton made the move he had no way of knowing merc has such pace and McLaren don't...He lucked out a bit and theres still 18 races left...
Nonetheless yeah the older guys have my respect but they do shoot their mouths off. Not surprised by hamiltons told you so moment tbh

#21 kosmos

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:31

Have to agree with him on that one. Their opinions are often as all over the place as some random guys on this forum.


I agree, specially when it comes to Lauda.

#22 MortenF1

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:32

What surprised me with the comments that criticized him for leaving the competitive McLaren, was that they all just refused to accept that sometimes, people have other motives for wanting change.

#23 SR388

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:33

Good on Lewis for calling them out.

#24 Skinnyguy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:35

Totally agree. I don´t think it´s about objectivity or subjectivity, it´s just that some former drivers don´t have a clue about the current sport, and in a more general note, knowing how to drive in a world class driver´s level doesn´t make you a valid voice to talk about whatever series. Carlos Sainz is a legend and he´s as clueless as you get about F1.

#25 maverick69

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:43

Old farts in some cases lose objectivity. :cool:


And never trust a fart when you get that old!

#26 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:49

There's nothing wrong with what Jackie Stewart said.

Jackie Stewart said it as "a risk …maybe a risk worth taking" and added it was "an emotional decision but it may not prove to be the right one".


What exactly did he say that was so wrong? It's very possible the move to Mercedes may not be the best move when we look back on it. He drives for a team that hasn't proven it can build a car for an entire race season. Sure Melbourne was a success if you consider Mercedes and McLaren as the only two teams on the grid, but there are other teams out there as well. Over the course of a race distance, Lewis was still 45 seconds behind the leader. It's to early to say whether this was a bad move.

#27 Bartonz20let

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:03

He's probibly talking about lauda too

#28 sharo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:10

And never trust a fart when you get that old!

:rotfl:
:up:
Made my day!

#29 Wiggy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:15

He's right. The likes of Lauda, Stewart, Mansell and co thinking their opnion is worth something is beyond boring now. Their knowledge isn't relevent to current times. They are old farts, stuck in 'we were better' syndrome.

And Jackie shouldn't be judging anyone whilst wearing those horrendous trousers and cap.

#30 jj2728

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:19

Sounds like Lewis is just being a bit of his usual petulant self.
No big deal really...........

#31 jj2728

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:23

They are old farts, stuck in 'we were better' syndrome.


I don't believe they believe that they are 'stuck' in any kind of a time 'we were better' syndrome.



#32 Peat

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:27

As much as i think that most of what Lewis says is drivvle, he's right.

Jackie Stewart, in particular, is a clown. It's sad, because someone like my father still hangs on his every word and regurgitates his out of touch comments verbatim. The cars are nothing like what Jackie drove, the circus itself has changed out of all recognition since he was king of the castle. He needs to let it go a bit. He has his place, but his incessant 'being available for comment' is rather tragic.

You can add Moss, Lauda, Jones & Scheckter to that list.



#33 fastlegs

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:29

If former drivers never gave their opinions it would make both F1 and this forum less interesting to follow.

I like hearing their opinions even if I disagree with some of them.

#34 maverick69

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:34

:rotfl:
:up:
Made my day!


:smoking:


#35 Skinnyguy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:40

If former drivers never gave their opinions it would make both F1 and this forum less interesting to follow.

I like hearing their opinions even if I disagree with some of them.


Some still know what they talk about, some do not: Losing Stewart´s comments wouldn´t be a drama, losing Brundle´s would. Recent drivers are usually more wise about the current sport.

Some are objective, genuine, and tell things how they feel, some just like attention: losing Brundle´s comments would be a loss, losing Jaques Villeneuve comments wouldn´t be a drama. This just depends on persojal

I think it´s fair not to make general statements about such a diverse group is not fair.

#36 SunnyENTP

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:40

I don't believe they believe that they are 'stuck' in any kind of a time 'we were better' syndrome.



Golf and F1 are the 2 sports were the oldies have the biggest ego's.




#37 GlenP

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:42

The things that he is saying that they said, they did not really say. "Jackie Stewart said it as "a risk …maybe a risk worth taking" - to which Hamilton is reported as replying "…all the ex-drivers commenting that it was the worst decision ever. They said: 'He's going to finish nowhere, they're going to be nowhere."

They may have expressed doubts, but not as strongly as reported and those doubts were legitimate. Nonsense story.

As for being from a different era - what those guys are perfectly entitled to comment on is the mental side of F1, which is pretty much the same as it ever was.

#38 F1ultimate

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:42

Sounds like Lewis is just being a bit of his usual petulant self.
No big deal really...........


I often promote humbleness as opposed to a "You were wrong, I was right"-attitude but in this case, Lewis has the right to speak his mind. The lack of support and encouragement by arm chair Stewart and many other pundits was shocking. The way they doomed his move was very narrow minded. You only have to look at how well Kimi enjoyed 2012 despite no track record suggesting that the 2011 Lotus would even make it to podium - but he is enjoying himself and the relaxed atmosphere at Lotus, and the team is enjoying him too.

#39 alfa1

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:46


I agree with Lewis.
The "former drivers" might hang about in the Paddock club a bit more, but they
dont have any magical insight into current events that any member of this forum doesnt have.

And as others have pointed out, the cars and the tracks and the technology is so
different today that most of those older respected gents have no clue to the current sport.



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#40 GlenP

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:47

The lack of support and encouragement by arm chair Stewart and many other pundits was shocking. The way they doomed his move was very narrow minded.

Where did Stewart "doom" his move? He said he was taking a risk, which is true. I don't see any quote where he said it was wrong, or doomed.

#41 GlenP

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:49

I applaud Lewis for taking the risk, but I am not so blind as to claim that it wasn't even a risk.

#42 jj2728

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:52

I agree with Lewis.
The "former drivers" might hang about in the Paddock club a bit more, but they
dont have any magical insight into current events that any member of this forum doesnt have.

And as others have pointed out, the cars and the tracks and the technology is so
different today that most of those older respected gents have no clue to the current sport.


I'd dare say that they have much more of a clue than many of the armchair experts that frequent this forum.

#43 Nemo1965

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:53


Sigh. Again Lewis reacts strongly to something some other people said or did... before checking out what they did or said. Remember he was so angry that Button had unfollowed him? And it turned out that it wasn't true.

Well, here we go again.

Like other posters said, Stewart never 'doomed' Hamiltons move. Here is the full quote from the Guardian:

"I personally would have stayed with McLaren," the Scot said. "They have the resources and the money. They have the commitment and also have huge experience. He would not be here today without McLaren, so there is a degree of loyalty that I think you should always have. I don't think McLaren have been out of the top end of motor racing now for a very long time. Mercedes Benz is a wonderful company, but it would take a five‑minute meeting by the board to stop them being in the sport because of the economy and all the currency that is involved in the present time in Europe. So, if I was thinking long term, then I would be looking to stay at McLaren."

Another part of the story:

"He has been [at McLaren] for six years now. There is a risk that when you go to a new team it can take you 24 months to settle down," he said. "You have to get used to new engineers, new management, new cultures, new ways of doing things. He might immediately dial in and get it done, but I sometimes think the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.


All in all, that seems a very balanced opinion. If old drivers are not allowed to express that opinion, I guess they are only allowed to say: 'Ooh, Driver X is just as good as Fangio!'



#44 DampMongoose

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:53

'Former drivers don't know what they're talking about'

And some current drivers don't appear to know when it's best to keep schtum either...

#45 Timstr11

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:55

Sounds like Lewis is just being a bit of his usual petulant self.
No big deal really...........

Petulant?
Many people were blaming him of making an ''emotional'' or ''money motivated'' decision. Those are serious allegations.
He has the full rights to now respond to their baseless comments.
Lewis' decison to join Mercedes was based on expected returns on investments and organisational changes the team made in the course of 2011/2012. There is never a guarantee that things will work out (look at McLaren now), but it was enough for him to trust that they would get it right at some point. A risk nonetheless, but not much more of a risk than staying at McLaren who have not sealed a championship since 2008.


#46 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:57

Sigh. Again Lewis reacts strongly to something some other people said or did... before checking out what they did or said. Remember he was so angry that Button had unfollowed him? And it turned out that it wasn't true.

Well, here we go again.

Like other posters said, Stewart never 'doomed' Hamiltons move. Here is the full quote from the Guardian:

"I personally would have stayed with McLaren," the Scot said. "They have the resources and the money. They have the commitment and also have huge experience. He would not be here today without McLaren, so there is a degree of loyalty that I think you should always have. I don't think McLaren have been out of the top end of motor racing now for a very long time. Mercedes Benz is a wonderful company, but it would take a five‑minute meeting by the board to stop them being in the sport because of the economy and all the currency that is involved in the present time in Europe. So, if I was thinking long term, then I would be looking to stay at McLaren."

Another part of the story:

"He has been [at McLaren] for six years now. There is a risk that when you go to a new team it can take you 24 months to settle down," he said. "You have to get used to new engineers, new management, new cultures, new ways of doing things. He might immediately dial in and get it done, but I sometimes think the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.


All in all, that seems a very balanced opinion. If old drivers are not allowed to express that opinion, I guess they are only allowed to say: 'Ooh, Driver X is just as good as Fangio!'


What Jackie said is not sour grapes nor some old driver who doesn't know what he is talking about.

It's quite accurate, and it's a shame some people here don't even know what Jackie actually said.

#47 F1ultimate

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:58

Where did Stewart "doom" his move? He said he was taking a risk, which is true. I don't see any quote where he said it was wrong, or doomed.


Stewart has uttered a fair share of non-supportive words about Lewis move to Merc and his social circles. Why stalk Lewis on Twitter and Facebook and slam his friends whom you haven't met?

"When he's on form, he is the quickest," said the legendary Scot. "But [his ability] to do it consistently is not yet there."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105103

'Personally, if I'd been Lewis, I wouldn't have left McLaren. 'But as a 28-year-old, he should know what he is doing now.
'You just have to be damn careful you don't get carried away with your own importance, your own celebrity, or your own schedule outside of being in the cockpit. It can be quite intoxicating.

'It's about who you hang out with, what you do in your off time, how you are committing your off time towards your real time - and your real time is being a racing driver.'

http://www.dailymail...rtance--F1.html

#48 GlenP

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:02

Stalking Lewis on Twitter/fb? What?

First quote - absolutely accurate. He is the quickest, but he is not the most consistent. What exactly is wrong with that?

Second quote - again, try reading it a bit more carefully. He's saying that provided he isn't being swayed by emotional factors, then it's all fine. But he should be careful about that. Totally correct.

Edited by GlenP, 19 March 2013 - 16:03.


#49 DampMongoose

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:05

Golf and F1 are the 2 sports were the oldies have the biggest ego's.


Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Gary Player and Seve as oldies that were at the pinnacle of the game are/were very modest as people without any ego that you suggest... I'd like to know who you were thinking about with that comment???

#50 skid solo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:08

And never trust a fart when you get that old!


In fact it appears Sir Jackie thinks any move in any direction is as a bad idea...