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Take me over to the pit wall please


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#1 Jejking

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:28

I was surprised by the lack of response to Webbers ethics today, during his fight with Vettel which he lost because the German ignored team orders. At lap 44, Webber completely took Vettel to the pitwall and I recognized that move from somewhere.

- Estoril 1988, Senna vs Prost @
- Fuji 2008, Webber vs Massa @ (3:38)
- Hungary 2010, Schumacher vs Barrichello @

And now this. Senna's move on Prost got him labeled as ruthless, Schumacher got the title of a murderer for his action against Barrichello. I'm wondering what to make of Webber? It seems to go unnoticed or accepted generally, but in my book the character is the same: pushing to the absolute limit. He's a good fighter but he has a tendency to go overboard with this combatant style, imho. What do you guys think?



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#2 Lights

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:31

I think you have to make the distinction here in the amount of movement towards the pitwall after the cars are side by side.

#3 choyothe

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:40

Trademark Webber, Fuji 08 with Massa, Brazil 09 with Kimi etc. Extremely dirty. I don't actually consider Webber to be close to the top class in terms of racing ability so it makes it even more dangerous IMO.

#4 apoka

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:43

Seeing it live I thought it was a dirty move, which could have earned Webber a penalty. I cannot really find good online footage at the moment to analyse it though.

#5 dau

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:43

I think it's okay, we're racing, after all. Vettel still had enough room, didn't he?

Though i have to say i immediately thought of Barrichello/Schumacher as well. Guess there would be more talk about this if it was Webber getting pushed to the wall by Vettel.

#6 stillOrange

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:49

Remind me please, what was the punishment for Michael's actions at Hungary? Wasn't it a grid penalty?
I can't see this happening here but in fairness it should be the same for Mark

#7 ElDictatore

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:51

Seeing it live I thought it was a dirty move, which could have earned Webber a penalty. I cannot really find good online footage at the moment to analyse it though.




I didn't find it so dirty, since he didn't move more to the wall after he saw that he's beside him. That and the fact that he didn't move by that much makes a big difference to the ones posted by OP

#8 choyothe

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:59

Okay, after seeing the HQ it's not as dirty as I thought, and not as dirty as Schumi to RB, he left slightly more space and didn't close in so rapidly. Still dirty though.

#9 BenettonB192

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 13:07

If we remove it from the context of the team order debate and just look at two drivers fighting for a position i would say it was on the edge. Hard but ultimately fair. Great piece of driving from both actualy.
Schumachers move was crossing that fine line. It was putting the other driver in higher danger because there was also a piece of grass coming where Barrichello easily could have spun at full speed.


#10 learningtobelost

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 13:10

90% of Webbers movement was before Vettel pulled alongside, looking at the onboard it's surprising that Seb goes into the decreasing gap... it had shades of Ham/But at Canada in 2011.

#11 Jejking

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 13:12

If we remove it from the context of the team order debate and just look at two drivers fighting for a position i would say it was on the edge. Hard but ultimately fair. Great piece of driving from both actualy.
Schumachers move was crossing that fine line. It was putting the other driver in higher danger because there was also a piece of grass coming where Barrichello easily could have spun at full speed.

That was for me the bad part of the move as well, Schumacher stuck to the right on a route which would have resulted in doom for Barrichello if he hadn't forced Schumacher back to the left. That would leave me to place Webbers move in the same category as Senna, who also was moving into the path of the team mate as he tried to pass in the space. All the same as Schumacher, but not with the controversial ending. Still, he has no reputation because of it. Can we accept this kind of behaviour?

Edited by Jejking, 24 March 2013 - 13:18.