78 replies to this topic

[pdac]

I don't understand option 2. You ask whether they should follow team orders, but option two does not relate to that, it's about whether the team orders should be there in the first place. There are two clear questions:

1. Is a team right to tell their drivers to hold station?

2. If the team tells drivers to hold station, should they obey?

[choyothe]

What I think RB should do at this point: Publicly announce that the team hasn't got 2 teammates but 2 individual drivers, cancel all public events with the two, erect a wall within the garage and completely separate the two sides. Two teams within one, they'll drive against each other like like against anyone else.

Then fire Webber at the end of the season.

[pdac]

What I think RB should do at this point: Publicly announce that the team hasn't got 2 teammates but 2 individual drivers, cancel all public events with the two, erect a wall within the garage and completely separate the two sides. Two teams within one, they'll drive against each other like like against anyone else.

Then fire Webber at the end of the season.

Or, perhaps, just tell Webber to "stay behind Seb at all times unless he asks you to do otherwise".

[Diablobb81]

What I think RB should do at this point: Publicly announce that the team hasn't got 2 teammates but 2 individual drivers, cancel all public events with the two, erect a wall within the garage and completely separate the two sides. Two teams within one, they'll drive against each other like like against anyone else.

Then fire Webber at the end of the season.

Vale, is that you ?

[JRizzle86]

The sooner Red Bull is free of Helmut the better. Vettel could benefit without his safety blanket. Let Horner manage the drivers equally.

[choyothe]

Or, perhaps, just tell Webber to "stay behind Seb at all times unless he asks you to do otherwise".

That would be good too, when Webber ignores the team order the hypocrisy around here would be delicious once again.

[pdac]

The sooner Red Bull is free of Helmut the better. Vettel could benefit without his safety blanket. Let Horner manage the drivers equally.

Didn't Helmut say something to the effect that the events this Sunday showed that their drivers have equal status.

[mnmracer]

I don't understand option 2. You ask whether they should follow team orders, but option two does not relate to that, it's about whether the team orders should be there in the first place. There are two clear questions:

1. Is a team right to tell their drivers to hold station?

2. If the team tells drivers to hold station, should they obey?

3. If the team tells driver A to hold station for driver B, while driver B have repeatedly not held station for driver A, is it fair to consider it payback to not obey?

[JRizzle86]

Didn't Helmut say something to the effect that the events this Sunday showed that their drivers have equal status.

Helmut has always given the impression to outsiders and Vettel that the exact opposite is true.

[pgj]

The WCC is the more important competition. A driver should do as he is told.

[mnmracer]

The WCC is the more important competition. A driver should do as he is told.

You should probably tell Mark Webber that.

[skid solo]

Maintain the gap

just gonna leave this here.

Yes a good illustration of someone obeying team orders despite being far quicker.. Thanks for posting

[yoyogetfunky]

All these guys voting for option 2: youre all a bunch of real racing fans!

[William Hunt]

Would you listen to your boss when he asks something to do to you? That's what this in the end boils down to. Most employers would listen to their boss but apparently Vettel thinks he doesn't have to.

[muramasa]

RBR in catch 22 because of multi 21

[mnmracer]

Would you listen to your boss when he asks something to do to you? That's what this in the end boils down to. Most employers would listen to their boss but apparently Vettel thinks he doesn't have to.

Would you listen to your boss who has allowed your colleague to disobey him three times without punishment, when over the past 4 years you have performed a multitude better than said colleague? Would you not feel it is only fair that if your lesser performing colleague gets away with disobedience multiple times, you would be allowed to be disobedient once?

[Jagjon]

Would you listen to your boss who has allowed your colleague to disobey him three times without punishment, when over the past 4 years you have performed a multitude better than said colleague? Would you not feel it is only fair that if your lesser performing colleague gets away with disobedience multiple times, you would be allowed to be disobedient once?

Well good thing he didn't perhaps we'll see some proper racing & not this controlled from pit wall crap!

[William Hunt]

Well good thing he didn't perhaps we'll see some proper racing & not this controlled from pit wall crap!

It was actually Vettel who asked for an intervention from the pit wall, demanding them to let Webber move over, have you forgotten that?

[choyothe]

The WCC is the more important competition. A driver should do as he is told.

BS.

[choyothe]

It was actually Vettel who asked for an intervention from the pit wall, demanding them to let Webber move over, have you forgotten that?

Yeah, seeing his race being thrown away and possibly being out of the podium. Meanwhile RB was busy babysitting Webber and ordering Vettel to not get close or try to pass throughout the race.

[fabr68]

Yeah, seeing his race being thrown away and possibly being out of the podium. Meanwhile RB was busy babysitting Webber and ordering Vettel to not get close or try to pass throughout the race.

The issue was Red Bull ordering to turn down his engine and hold station until end of the race (as agreed by both Vettel and Webber for whomever driver was in front). By turning the engine down Webber lost the gap he built in front of Vettel(running on full engine performance) and allowed him to overtake Webber.

Again, it is not a matter of fast vs slow driver but rather the breaking of a pre-race agreement. Webber has won races from Sebastian before so it is not like Webber was not going to win the race had he kept his engine up and controlled the gap to Vettel until the end of the race.

[mnmracer]

The issue was Red Bull ordering to turn down his engine and hold station until end of the race (as agreed by both Vettel and Webber for whomever driver was in front). By turning the engine down Webber lost the gap he built in front of Vettel(running on full engine performance) and allowed him to overtake Webber.

Except that is not what happened.
Webber said himself that the 'turning down engine' part was only done AFTER the pitstop.

[MadYarpen]

at risk of sounding stupid: what did he actually meat by this multi 21?

[mnmracer]

at risk of sounding stupid: what did he actually meat by this multi 21?

don't worry, you don't sound stupid

'order 21' means they are to finish in that order: first car number 2 (Webber), then car number 1 (Vettel)
'order 12' means that Vettel was to finish ahead of Webber.

the multi comes from the fact that Vettel (allegedly) was told this order multiple times

[MadYarpen]

Thanks!

[Wiggy]

I think it is the code to lower the engine revs.

Horner explained it to SKY F1HD

Multi 21 means car 1 to follow car 2.

There was also a Multi 12 too.

Edit: should have read page 2...

Edited by Wiggy, 29 March 2013 - 18:30.

[toroRosso]

Yes, but teammates should take in to consideration of their performance during the season and the championship standings

[skid solo]

Webber will obey it and I'm sure the team will enforce that with golden handcuffs.

The team order for Webber would be multi 12 and I wouldn't be so sure..

[Kelateboy]

Would you listen to your boss when he asks something to do to you? That's what this in the end boils down to. Most employersees would listen to their boss but apparently Vettel and Webber thinks he doesn't they don't have to.

Fixed that for you.