26 replies to this topic

[mnmracer]

We can discuss all we want, but let's cut it down to a simple question.
Is it right to ignore team orders to try and get another place?

[Wingcommander]

No. A driver is an employee and should do what the team tells him to do.

edit. "is a prick"

Edited by Wingcommander, 25 March 2013 - 07:03.

[mnmracer]

No. A driver is an employee and should do what the team tells him to do.

What did you vote? 'is a prick' or 'get the favor returned'?

[BCM]

Fight for the win, but expect the other guy to do the same in similar circumstances.

[SamH123]

Vettel is alive to win races and probably wouldn't be one of the best racing drivers in the world if he thought 'okkk 2nd it is'

I don't really think much less of him to be honest - there are not many sports where winning is against the rules.
(I'm not saying he did the right thing, just saying I don't hate him for it)

[fifi]

i voted no hes a prick

imo it would only have been acceptable if it were a fair fight

[pusko]

WDC and WCC are accomplished by the whole team! Driver is just 1 and probably not the biggest factor in it!
...so, he's a prick. Only 1 person could disobey at RBR...and that's Dieter.

[AnR]

Fight for the win, but expect the other guy to do the same in similar circumstances.

+1, Everything else is just hypocracy

[DrProzac]

TO are a bad thing, but they should either be obeyed by both the drivers or by none of them.

[aray]

i pick first option.....

[mnmracer]

i voted no hes a prick

imo it would only have been acceptable if it were a fair fight

Well, by the time Vettel knew Webber was coming for him in Silverstone, he had turned his engine back up, just like when Webber found out the fight was on in turn 4 and they both set 3 consecutive fastest laps.

But you believe Webber is a prick. Yesterday was karma then?

[Realyn]

I'll vote here when I find a thread for "He said: “I ignored the team and I was battling to the end.”" aswell.

[DILLIGAF]

i voted no hes a prick

imo it would only have been acceptable if it were a fair fight

ditto

[PMM3]

Ofcourse it is not right from an ethical standpoint to do what Vettel did. What he did is essentially break his own word or commitment, and in turn let the team and his team mate know that he cannot be trusted to place the team above himself. But it is absolutely the right thing to do considering the values that are in vogue today in F1. Ruthlessness is celebrated, win at any cost is hugely celebrated, second place is looked down as the first loser, people bargain behind the scenes for an upper hand over their team mates - in short the balance is hugely tilted towards the result rather than the method. In such a scenario why should Vettel be silly enough to play fair?

He must have calculated correctly that the team will be pissed for a few days, there will be a bit of criticism to start with, he will be forced to issue one or multiple apologies etc, but surely Vettel knows that when it comes to next race, RedBull will more likely be looking to him to deliver that win than his aging team mate who has relatively little to show. So hats off to Vettel for judging the upside/downside equation to perfection and going for the kill.

[rm111]

Vettel is alive to win races and probably wouldn't be one of the best racing drivers in the world if he thought 'okkk 2nd it is'

I don't really think much less of him to be honest - there are not many sports where winning is against the rules.
(I'm not saying he did the right thing, just saying I don't hate him for it)

Yes Vettel is a ruthless selfish prick but that's why he's going to retire a 6,7 or 8 time world champion and one of the GOATs.

[Sakae]

We can discuss all we want, but let's cut it down to a simple question.
Is it right to ignore team orders to try and get another place?

No, race manager should prevail, but not all the time. A driver, being in "gemba", occasionally should have right to override pitwall, if he feels that a call is wrong. After all, this is not about collaboration between drivers, but winning and defeat.

Schumacher's case I think was different than what we seen yesterday at Mercedes. RB was almost never close to Michael to claim primacy in that team. I wonder than what Ferrari will do with Massa beating Alonso. Brawn disappointed me, because just a few months ago he claimed that Hamilton is not number one driver, yet Rosberg got shafted and robbed of a podium in real terms already in a second race, just like RB got shafted in Austria (one of few cases RB should have won). What happened at RBR is beyond my comprehension, because the race doesn't lasts only till last stop-over, and as seen in the past, fight is on till the Finish. In my mind whatever went on yesterday was unnecessary call, and I am almost suspicious, that chiefs were worry mostly about repetition of Turkey 2010, and that Webber will take Vettel out, which is why they did not want any passes so late in the race. It was not the concern about equipment, as claimed.

Edited by Sakae, 25 March 2013 - 08:03.

[jj2728]

Yes Vettel is a ruthless selfish prick but that's why he's going to retire a 6,7 or 8 time world champion and one of the GOATs.

Not necessarily. What he did was wrong. He ignored team orders. What's to say he won't do it again?
This win at all costs mentality could turn around and bite him in the behind one of these days.
If anything after this he's more of a goat, the four legged kind....

[MikeV1987]

Vettel being called a prick just highlights the ridiculous hate that guy receives no matter what he does, if Vettel is a prick by the haters standards, then Webber sure is as well.


It's hilarious to see people slag Vettel for ignoring team orders, but go to a Merc thread and bash mercedes for using team orders.

Edited by MikeV1987, 25 March 2013 - 08:55.

[Realyn]

What he did was wrong. He ignored team orders.

Best thing I've read on a F1 forum for quite a while. Does anyone remember "Booooh, Ferrari Team orders, Boooh gifted win to Schumacher in Austria, Boooh Alonso having #1 status" ... Anyone ... please?

Edited by Realyn, 25 March 2013 - 08:54.

[One]

i voted no hes a prick

imo it would only have been acceptable if it were a fair fight

Seconded.

[Group B]

There's no 'right or wrong' here, it depends on the timing and situation. Personally I think top teams telling their drivers to formation cruise for half the race in only the secoind GP of the year is a pretty sad state of affairs whatever the justification, so I wish they'd all say sod off and race.

[LuckyStrike1]

Racing for position until the end of the race > Team orders and holding position

[mnmracer]

Wow, after the outcry of Malaysia, I had not expected the majority of people here think Mark Webber was a prick. Apparently, another 10% feel that Vettel's actions were justified, returning the favor of Silverstone '11. Maybe there is hope for this forum after all.

[apoka]

The way this poll has developed is odd. I think option 4 was quite less popular a while (an hour?) ago.

Edited by apoka, 25 March 2013 - 09:18.

[mtojay]

"Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place"


i see what you did there

i think the most people dont even realize that it is this guy mark webber whose sentence that one is :-). that it is this guy mark webber who did the exact same thing in 2011 that vettel did yesterday.
i read in this forum a lot. and its funny to see how biased the people are when it comes to vettel.

now he is the prick, but when it was webber who raced to get a place, he was declared a "real racer".

webber should understand that he is the number two.

mark webber in f1 since 2002:
9 poles
11 race wins

sebastian vettel in f1 since 2007:
38 poles
27 race wins
......

[Raifosa]

"The team radioed me about four times, asking that I maintain the gap to Seb," explained Webber. "But I wasn't happy with that because you should never give up in Formula 1, so I continued to push. If Fernando had retired on the last lap, we would have been battling for the lead.

Mark Webber
Silverstone 2011

[Buttoneer]

We already have plenty of threads about this subject and this adds nothing to the discussion.

Try here; http://forums.autosp...howtopic=183465

Closed.