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Webber DID maintain the gap in Silverstone 2011


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#1 gowebber

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:49

To anyone who continually spouts off about Mark doing the same thing to Seb at Silverstone 2011 better have a nice CLOSE look at these videos. Mark DID comply with the request to backoff and maintain the gap.





Horner stated in his interview.

"We allowed the drivers to fight it out throughout the race but with 3-4 laps to go................"

So Mark wasn't told to hold position after the last stop.

Only when Seb complained did they tell him to hold position, to which he replied "Yeah righto" which you can clearly hear in the video, and in the end did exactly what was asked.



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#2 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:50

seems pretty concise to me.

#3 DILLIGAF

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:53

seems pretty concise to me.

Agreed

#4 LiJu914

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:01

lol. So desperate, that you even start a new thread?

Well if you ask for it...

So Mark wasn't told to hold position after the last stop.


Yes, i already pointed out, that it was about the last few laps.

Only when Seb complained did they tell him to hold position, to which he replied "Yeah righto" which you can clearly hear in the video, and in the end did exactly what was asked.


Mark Webber himself repeated several times at the PC that he was fighting SV til the end. Shall i really quote every relevant line for you?
Ever thought that his "Yeah righto" was just sarcasm?

MW: I am not fine with it. No. That's the answer to that. If Fernando retires on the last lap we are battling for the victory so I was fine until the end. Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place. Seb was doing his best and I was doing my best. I don't want to crash with anyone, but that was it. I tried to do my best with the amount of conversation I had. One-way conversation obviously as I wasn't talking oo much back. There was a lot of traffic coming to me, but I was still trying to do my best to pass the guy in front.






#5 BigCHrome

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:03

Another thing to consider is that the result in Silverstone wasn't in danger because the tires wouldn't have fell apart.

#6 ed24f1

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:04

So why did Webber make the quote about ignoring the team and trying to get another place then? Was he lying?

EDIT: Already mentioned above

Edited by ed24f1, 26 March 2013 - 04:04.


#7 gowebber

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:42

lol. So desperate, that you even start a new thread?

Well if you ask for it...



Yes, i already pointed out, that it was about the last few laps.



Mark Webber himself repeated several times at the PC that he was fighting SV til the end. Shall i really quote every relevant line for you?
Ever thought that his "Yeah righto" was just sarcasm?


Not desperate Li just sick of people such as yourself trying to make out Mark did the same thing as Seb. So obviously you know better than Mark and Horner. Come off it! The evidence is clear mark complied in the end by replying 'Yeah righto' to Christian when asked to maintain the gap and DID NOT pass. The sooner those arguing realise that the better. He might have pushed hard and ignored the initial requests, but in the end he was sensible about it and complied by not passing UNLIKE Seb. Give it a rest.

Edited by gowebber, 26 March 2013 - 04:48.


#8 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:52

lol. So desperate, that you even start a new thread?

Well if you ask for it...



Yes, i already pointed out, that it was about the last few laps.



Mark Webber himself repeated several times at the PC that he was fighting SV til the end. Shall i really quote every relevant line for you?
Ever thought that his "Yeah righto" was just sarcasm?


Seems pretty evident to me. Plenty of times in that footage Webber could have passed, it seems obvious that he was simply demonstrating his speed.

Anyhow, people lie, people get misquoted, people say incorrect things. You can clearly see the events for yourself in the footage, and if you still need a quote to cling to in desperation then your perception is clouded by favouritism. Simples.

Edited by Sennasational, 26 March 2013 - 05:15.


#9 gillesthegenius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:42

To anyone who continually spouts off about Mark doing the same thing to Seb at Silverstone 2011 better have a nice CLOSE look at these videos. Mark DID comply with the request to backoff and maintain the gap.





Horner stated in his interview.

"We allowed the drivers to fight it out throughout the race but with 3-4 laps to go................"

So Mark wasn't told to hold position after the last stop.

Only when Seb complained did they tell him to hold position, to which he replied "Yeah righto" which you can clearly hear in the video, and in the end did exactly what was asked.


Dream on. But not everyone is so blind.

#10 LukeM

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:00

I honestly feel like there is 3-4 massive Vettel fanboys going around each thread about this spouting the same tosh. Maybe its 1 person multi accounting? :rotfl:

#11 Sin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:14

http://www.f1fanatic...er-pass-vettel/

Mark Webber himself said he ignored team orders...

only difference is Vettel made his move stick in the end....

another thing you gotta think about Webber is... and was above 30 years old... he had lots more life experience than Seb had.... and still he ignored team orders,
while at the same time Vettel is 25...

Edited by Sin, 26 March 2013 - 06:19.


#12 Black Widow

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:19

http://www.f1fanatic...er-pass-vettel/

Mark Webber himself said he ignored team orders...

And Vettel responded...

Vettel said that he could not fully understand why there was any controversy about what had happened.

"I was trying to defend my position, Mark was faster, he tried to pass me, I could stay ahead," he said.

"If I wouldn't be racing, I would wave him past. The last thing you want is to do something bad for the team.

"If it was the other way around, of course I would like to pass him but I don't see what is the big problem. To me at this stage [all the controversy] is quite funny."


The only ones that seem to have a problem are the spin-doctors who are trying to justify something that is not justifiable.




#13 Sin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:21

And Vettel responded...



The only ones that seem to have a problem are the spin-doctors who are trying to justify something that is not justifiable.



yeah Vettel was fine with this.... while Webber made huge fuss about the same thing... says alot about those two...

they were racing there....

Maybe Mark is so pissed because he knows that without team orders he stands no chance against Seb in race

#14 DanardiF1

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:22

I honestly feel like there is 3-4 massive Vettel fanboys going around each thread about this spouting the same tosh. Maybe its 1 person multi accounting? :rotfl:


No it's just the modern sheep complex we see with those godawful 'Beliebers' too... they'll defend their messiah to the ends of the earth regardless of what they do. I've said it before in another of these threads, if you can't recognise that even once your favourite driver/singer/footballer/whatever has done something wrong, you're following them for the wrong reasons and shouldn't consider yourself a fan so much as a cultist.

#15 eronrules

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:23

To anyone who continually spouts off about Mark doing the same thing to Seb at Silverstone 2011 better have a nice CLOSE look at these videos. Mark DID comply with the request to backoff and maintain the gap.




Only when Seb complained did they tell him to hold position, to which he replied "Yeah righto" which you can clearly hear in the video, and in the end did exactly what was asked.


if that's complying with 'Team Orders', then vampires sparkle, sun revolves around the earth, the world is flat and rested on top of 4 elephants which are standing on the back of a giant turtle.

#16 DILLIGAF

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:25

yeah Vettel was fine with this.... while Webber made huge fuss about the same thing... says alot about those two...

they were racing there....

Maybe Mark is so pissed because he knows that without team orders he stands no chance against Seb in race


Difference being Mark did not pass whilst Vettel did. Do you think Seb would have been fine with it if Mark had passed him? I highly doubt it.

#17 eronrules

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:26

Difference being Mark did Could not pass whilst Vettel did. Do you think Seb would have been fine with it if Mark had passed him? I highly doubt it.



#18 Sin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:26

No it's just the modern sheep complex we see with those godawful 'Beliebers' too... they'll defend their messiah to the ends of the earth regardless of what they do. I've said it before in another of these threads, if you can't recognise that even once your favourite driver/singer/footballer/whatever has done something wrong, you're following them for the wrong reasons and shouldn't consider yourself a fan so much as a cultist.


yeah right denouncing people who have a different opinion than you because you run out of arguments... you would make a great politician...
People should respect not all people have the opinion they do... so if you keep writing the same stuff over and over again... you should expect the other side to respond the same over and over again...

Imo the best would be to stop the discussion... both sides arguments have been chewed over and over again, like a chewing gum loosing its taste...

#19 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:27

http://www.f1fanatic...er-pass-vettel/

Mark Webber himself said he ignored team orders...


Regardless of what Mark says, I can see with my own eyes that he could have passed Vettel in that footage. He was technically racing Vettel just to prove a point so in that regard he did ignore team orders. The orders were to maintain a gap, which he did not.

Like I said earlier, anyone who quotes him when the evidence is there for you too see for yourself is deluded by favouritism. I'm not a fan of Webber, I'm not a fan of Vettel...but using this as a sad defense of Vettel's blatantly wrong actions is rather desperate. Watch the footage from the first clip.

It's what is known as evidence. A statement is not evidence as I also said before, people lie, people get things wrong and people can be misquoted or quoted out of context. Just because he said something doesn't make it true. If he'd said he actually overtook Vettel and won that race, would you believe him? Would you send his quote to the FIA and suggest they alter the points accordingly? I don't think so. Don't be so naive.

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#20 gillesthegenius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:28

No it's just the modern sheep complex we see with those godawful 'Beliebers' too... they'll defend their messiah to the ends of the earth regardless of what they do. I've said it before in another of these threads, if you can't recognise that even once your favourite driver/singer/footballer/whatever has done something wrong, you're following them for the wrong reasons and shouldn't consider yourself a fan so much as a cultist.


So who falls into that category that you are talking about? Is it the one who keeps claiming that Webber did no wrong at Silvo11 and was wronged at Sepang10? Or is it the one who says both Webber and Vettel wronged at Silvo11 and Sepang13 respectively?;)

#21 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:28

Mark can handle himself just fine when he's not fighting with one hand tied behind his back. As evidenced on Sunday when Seb whined down the radio about Mark being too slow... 'oh really Seb? Well here you go, i'm 3 tenths faster than you all of a sudden' :drunk:

Mark's relative lack of speed was simply because he was managing his tyres, as Mark Hughes notes below:

"Mark is too slow," said Seb over the radio. "Get him out the way." On the very next lap Webber upped his pace by 0.3s. He wasn't slow; he was conserving. The fact that you cannot race flat-out on the Pirellis was beginning to build conflict out on track.



#22 muramasa

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:29


looks more like he minded the gap :D

#23 gillesthegenius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:34

Seems pretty evident to me. Plenty of times in that footage Webber could have passed, it seems obvious that he was simply demonstrating his speed.

Anyhow, people lie, people get misquoted, people say incorrect things. You can clearly see the events for yourself in the footage, and if you still need a quote to cling to in desperation then your perception is clouded by favouritism. Simples.


Its not as evident as you would like to think. And its not one quote and he was pretty clear when he said...
1) I wanted that place.
2) We were fighting for the win if Alonso retired.
3) I fought till the end.

But the state of denial can be very difficult to overcome.;)

#24 mnmracer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:35

Mark can handle himself just fine when he's not fighting with one hand tied behind his back. As evidenced on Sunday when Seb whined down the radio about Mark being too slow... 'oh really Seb? Well here you go, i'm 3 tenths faster than you all of a sudden' :drunk:

Mark's relative lack of speed was simply because he was managing his tyres, as Mark Hughes notes below:

"Mark is too slow," said Seb over the radio. "Get him out the way." On the very next lap Webber upped his pace by 0.3s. He wasn't slow; he was conserving. The fact that you cannot race flat-out on the Pirellis was beginning to build conflict out on track.

The fact Vettel could race flat-out on the Pirellí's doesn't mean that Webber should be awarded for being bad at tire conservation.
Vettel could do more laps on options, than Webber did on primes. And Vettel got punished for it in the end by the team not allowing him to make any move from lap 24 on.

#25 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:36

Its not as evident as you would like to think. And its not one quote and he was pretty clear when he said...
1) I wanted that place.
2) We were fighting for the win if Alonso retired.
3) I fought till the end.

But the state of denial can be very difficult to overcome.;)


Why would I deny what my eyes can see? Because he said something different? I have no bias in this situation.

#26 eronrules

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:37

Pot ** Kettle ** black ** team orders ** disobeying ** whinning

#27 Raelene

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:39

I honestly feel like there is 3-4 massive Vettel fanboys going around each thread about this spouting the same tosh. Maybe its 1 person multi accounting? :rotfl:


YOU ARE CORRECT - MNMRACER - repeats it in nearly every post!!


#28 Black Widow

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:40

Pot ** Kettle ** black ** team orders ** disobeying ** whinning

I presume you are describing Vettel there!

:rotfl:




#29 mnmracer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:41

Have we sunken so low that measurable facts are tosh?

#30 mnmracer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:42

I presume you are describing Vettel there!

:rotfl:

Yes, because it is Vettel who disobeyed teamorders three times before.
Oh wait...

#31 eronrules

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:44

I presume you are describing Vettel there!

:rotfl:


vettel and webber. :kiss:

#32 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:45

Have we sunken so low that measurable facts are tosh?


Quotes aren't measurable facts. And they can indeed be tosh. See my convenient example included in this post.

#33 Raelene

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:46

Yes, because it is Vettel who disobeyed teamorders three times before.
Oh wait...



hahaha my point proven 2 posts later ;)

#34 DILLIGAF

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:47

Yes, because it is Vettel who disobeyed teamorders three times before.
Oh wait...


Wow. You've only posted that "3 times before" stuff about 200 times now. Do you think everyone's deaf? :rolleyes: Stop trolling please.

#35 Raelene

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:48

Dilligaf - see my posts above ;);)

#36 DILLIGAF

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:49

Dilligaf - see my posts above ;);)


:lol: Good on ya Raelene. :smoking:

#37 gillesthegenius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:54

Why would I deny what my eyes can see? Because he said something different? I have no bias in this situation.


Whatever that suits your agenda mate. :wave:

#38 Raelene

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:55

maybe we could play a shots game for every time he mentions it ;)
We'd get pretty sloshed, very quickly!!

#39 choyothe

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:56

This thread is for real?

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#40 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:57

Whatever that suits your agenda mate. :wave:


Like I said, I have no bias. My agenda is only to say what I see, not listen to what I'm told.

#41 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:58

Yes, let's talk about the vocal Vettel fans while ignoring the just as vocal haters/Webber fans circle jerk. Really usefull discusion.

#42 gillesthegenius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:05

Like I said, I have no bias. My agenda is only to say what I see, not listen to what I'm told.


So please feel free to see whatever you want to see. The only thing that I can say, as a medical professional, is that all that you see may not actually be the truth. So be warned. :wave:

#43 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:09

So please feel free to see whatever you want to see. The only thing that I can say, as a medical professional, is that all that you see may not actually be the truth. So be warned. :wave:


Watch the first video and tell me if you think Webber could have got past Vettel if he wanted. If you believe he couldn't then all I can say is, as a non-medical professional, you're a dumbass.

:wave:

#44 bourbon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:15

To anyone who continually spouts off about Mark doing the same thing to Seb at Silverstone 2011 better have a nice CLOSE look at these videos. Mark DID comply with the request to backoff and maintain the gap.





Horner stated in his interview.

"We allowed the drivers to fight it out throughout the race but with 3-4 laps to go................"

So Mark wasn't told to hold position after the last stop.

Only when Seb complained did they tell him to hold position, to which he replied "Yeah righto" which you can clearly hear in the video, and in the end did exactly what was asked.


Well I would have to disagree with your interpretation.

And what is your response to Mark's disobedience in Brazil 2012? According to Christian: "If you think of Brazil at the last race [of 2012], Mark was told to hold position and he started racing him." ~ Christian Horner - Story Here

I think you would have to agree that there was a heck of a lot more on the line then. Mark didn't appear to care about the team at that point - to the extent that Briatore remarked after the race "The only one who helped Ferrari was Webber."

Edited by bourbon, 26 March 2013 - 07:32.


#45 mnmracer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:21

Watch the first video and tell me if you think Webber could have got past Vettel if he wanted. If you believe he couldn't then all I can say is, as a non-medical professional, you're a dumbass.

:wave:

This is about intent.
This is about what Webber did or did not do.

There is only one person who knows about Webber's intent, and Webber made his intent very clear.

The fact you are calling Mark Webber a liar is dubious to say the least.

#46 choyothe

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:28

How is it not clear yet? Webber tried to get past Vettel in the last 2-3 laps, Webber HIMSELF said he tried to pass, everyone could seen on the track he tried to pass. The willful ignorance...

#47 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:30

This is about intent.
This is about what Webber did or did not do.

There is only one person who knows about Webber's intent, and Webber made his intent very clear.

The fact you are calling Mark Webber a liar is dubious to say the least.


Mark Webber is almost certainly a liar. Almost everyone on this planet has told a lie or two in their time. When Vettel says he ignored team orders accidentally, do I believe him? Not for a second, I know what I saw. It's the same here, I can see him back off, I can hear him release the throttle and I see the car slow as a result even when an opportunity is clearly there, so if he was quoted once as saying he raced until the end do I have to believe that this is true even though my brain tells me otherwise? Nope.

Ever consider it was just a front he put up to try and convince the world, or just himself that he wasn't the number 2 driver?

#48 mnmracer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:31

Wow. You've only posted that "3 times before" stuff about 200 times now. Do you think everyone's deaf? :rolleyes: Stop trolling please.

Well, considering everyone is ignoring that fact, apparently they are.
Trying to deceive other people by continuously lying to them, now that is trolling.

#49 choyothe

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:41

Mark Webber is almost certainly a liar. Almost everyone on this planet has told a lie or two in their time. When Vettel says he ignored team orders accidentally, do I believe him? Not for a second, I know what I saw. It's the same here, I can see him back off, I can hear him release the throttle and I see the car slow as a result even when an opportunity is clearly there, so if he was quoted once as saying he raced until the end do I have to believe that this is true even though my brain tells me otherwise? Nope.

Ever consider it was just a front he put up to try and convince the world, or just himself that he wasn't the number 2 driver?


Meaning on a damp track, when Vettel's natural racing line was closing the door rapidly on him, Webber decided to lift the throttle to avoid a certain crash? Oh my god, he obviously complied with the team orders?

So the position is that Webber did follow the orders, but lied to everybody that he ignored them? Webber just keeps getting stupider and stupider in your eyes I guess. You'd think he'd get much more confidence in thinking the only reason Vettel beat him (again) was because of team orders, not because he failed to pass him giving his all.

#50 Sennasational

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:52

Meaning on a damp track, when Vettel's natural racing line was closing the door rapidly on him, Webber decided to lift the throttle to avoid a certain crash? Oh my god, he obviously complied with the team orders?

So the position is that Webber did follow the orders, but lied to everybody that he ignored them? Webber just keeps getting stupider and stupider in your eyes I guess. You'd think he'd get much more confidence in thinking the only reason Vettel beat him (again) was because of team orders, not because he failed to pass him giving his all.


There was plenty of space, and he weaves behind him later, the speed difference is entirely noticeable. And if I was trying to prove to the world that I deserved to be treated as an equal driver, I'd want them to think I gave it my all and didn't follow number 2 driver bitch orders. The more you act as a number 2 driver, the more they will treat you as one, and all that.

You're entitled to your opinion on the matter, of course. As am I.

As for the bolded bit - did you see Vettel's overtake on Webber on Sunday? The one where he put his car dangerously close to the wall and Webber squeezed it as far as he possibly could, risking a major collision? You're telling me this is the same Mark Webber who gives it his all by backing off in the situation in the video?