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Malaysia 2013: Would Webber have done what Vettel did?


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Poll: Malaysia 2013: Would Webber have done what Vettel did? (180 member(s) have cast votes)

Would Webber have ignored team orders if he had been in Vettel's position?

  1. Yes, Definitely! (53 votes [29.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.61%

  2. Most Likely (33 votes [18.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.44%

  3. Unlikely (49 votes [27.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.37%

  4. No, Definitely not! (39 votes [21.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.79%

  5. Undecided (5 votes [2.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.79%

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#1 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:27

With everyone giving Sebastian Vettel a hard time over his actions at the 2013 Malaysian GP, I wonder what would have happened if the roles had been reversed.

Mark Webber has on many occasions spoken out against team orders. He has also ignored them.

So I would like to know your opinion, would Webber have followed a team order to hold position behind Vettel if he had been asked to?

This is my take on it:

One very good example of Webber ignoring team orders is Silverstone 2011. In that race he not only ignored them but he defended his actions.

If you read the article written by Webber for the BBC after that race you can get a clear view of his opinion.

Some quotes from that article:

"I chose to race as hard and as fair as I thought was possible, trying my best to beat Seb. I got pretty close a couple of times but couldn't quite pull it off. I feel comfortable about what I did."

"To be told to hold position is something I wasn't prepared to follow at the time. If I'd backed off and held the gap at three seconds, as I was asked to do, it would have been much more difficult for me to sleep after the race. At the same time, I knew I was going against the team's wishes."

"To my way of thinking, the ball's as much in Seb's court as it is in mine in such situations. We should be free to race but to keep the team's best interests in the back of our minds, which I'm sure would have been the case anyway."

"What made it difficult for me to accept was that it happened so close to the end of the race. When you are coming to the line there is no more strategy to be played out. It's just a straight fight. In that case, any driver is going to be a little bit less inclined to accept a request like that, because they know that is what the result is going to be."

link

Webber also mentioned this:

"I'm not fine with it [team orders]. If Fernando Alonso retires on the last lap, we're battling for victory. Of course I ignored the team and I was battling to the end."

link

This seems to imply that had they been fighting for the win, in no way would Webber have respected team orders to hold back.

There are a few differences between Silverstone 2011 and Sepang 2013.

Silverstone 2011:

1. They were fighting for 3 points (which is less than half of what they were fighting for at Sepang).
2. Vettel was very much ahead in the championship that 3 points wouldn't have made a very big impact on Webber's title chances.

Sepang 2013:

1. It was just the second race of the year, the championship was still wide open and 2 of the past 3 championships have been won by under 7 points.
2. Red Bull has always maintained that if it came to it, they will favor the driver who is in front in the championship standings. Whichever Red Bull driver won in Sepang would have been ahead. So winning in Sepang also meant team advantage in the next race/next few races.

So the stakes were much higher at Sepang 2013 than they were at Silverstone 2011.

Considering all this and given Webber's past history concerning team orders, I conclude that Webber would have disobeyed team orders too, if he had been in Vettel's position and had been asked to hold position behind the leader.

What do you think?

Please vote and please leave an answer especially if you think Webber would have followed orders, since I have shown why I believe he wouldn't have.



***** EDIT *****

This is what Christian Horner has to say about it:

"If Mark Webber had been in that position... we have seen him do the same. Let's not kid ourselves that this is something unique to Sebastian."


Edited by vone, 29 March 2013 - 09:42.


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#2 Wheels23

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:14

Doubt it otherwise Mark would be goneskies for the season.

Plus back then at Silverstone they didn't have a 1-2, so I would think that when it comes to a 1-2 every driver would likely hold positions.

#3 Mauseri

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:22

Only if he could...

#4 muramasa

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:31


DEFO

#5 mnmracer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:34

Plus back then at Silverstone they didn't have a 1-2, so I would think that when it comes to a 1-2 every driver would likely hold positions.

So you think obeying team orders for a race win is more important then obeying team orders for the world championship?
Mark disobeyed team orders twice when it was to help his team-mate win the world championship. No way that he would suddenly have a change of heart for a race win.

#6 goldenboy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:40

I personally believe he followed team orders in silverstone but lied about it to make it not look pathetic that he capitulated eventually. Which made him look a little pathetic in my eyes anyway truth be told. And I don't believe he tried to get in the way of vettel in brazil. At one point he jumped right out of the way for chrissake.

#7 HoldenRT

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:47

Nope.

Because he doesn't have 'protection' within the team the same way Seb does. Anyone with half a brain can see this.

Seb is a three times world champ. Seb has Helmut Marko. Seb had the team defending him after Turkey 2010 while most outsiders said it was Vettel's fault.

And I still don't even understand why people think Webber 'ignored' them in Silverstone.

I saw Webber pressure Vettel, and I saw Webber get alongside in one of the traction zones.. but I never saw him go side by side into a braking zone.. and I NEVER saw him get infront and then be reovertaken and then battle for the next lap and a half.

What I saw was Webber trying to pressure Vettel into a mistake.. so that he could say "Seb made a mistake and I passed him".

Webber always needs deniability because he can't blatantly **** all over the team.. because it's hard enough getting an equal fair share even when things are smooth. Most observers can see this. I don't mean one race, I mean over a long period of time. Over two or three years.

Seb doesn't have that problem.. which means he has less to fear. Everyone is talking about this at the moment but overall Seb doesn't have much to fear.. Webber is aging and probably on his last season with Redbull and Seb is the future. And it's always been this way.



#8 HoldenRT

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:48

I personally believe he followed team orders in silverstone but lied about it to make it not look pathetic that he capitulated eventually. Which made him look a little pathetic in my eyes anyway truth be told. And I don't believe he tried to get in the way of vettel in brazil. At one point he jumped right out of the way for chrissake.

The way I saw it.. he followed team orders but was angry and 'raging' and followed Seb close behind trying to pressure him into a mistake. I can't even remember what he said post race.. whether he tried to save face or not. Probably did.. since everyone seems to like focussing on those comments.

What people have to consider is that in both of those situations.. it's not even about who wins. It's about the chance of them crashing into each other and preventing a one two. If that happened in Silverstone, Webber would have been crucified. And if that happened in Malaysia, Seb would be crucified. But if Webber did it, he'd be dead.. where as if Vettel did it.. he would rise from the dead on the Sunday.

How ironic that I post this on Good Friday!!

Edited by HoldenRT, 29 March 2013 - 07:52.


#9 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:03

McLaren Webber Vettel is a shameless hypochrite devoid of any integrity.

#10 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:18

Doubt it otherwise Mark would be goneskies for the season.

Plus back then at Silverstone they didn't have a 1-2, so I would think that when it comes to a 1-2 every driver would likely hold positions.



But like I have quoted above, Webber said: "If Fernando Alonso retires on the last lap, we're battling for victory." He gave this as one reason he didn't follow orders. This seems to imply that if it were for the race win Webber definitely would not have followed team orders to hold back.

#11 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:23

I personally believe he followed team orders in silverstone but lied about it to make it not look pathetic that he capitulated eventually. Which made him look a little pathetic in my eyes anyway truth be told. And I don't believe he tried to get in the way of vettel in brazil. At one point he jumped right out of the way for chrissake.


Well Webber comes across as one big liar and hypocrite if so. The things he said after trying to justify his disobeying of team orders after Silverstone 2011 could justify Vettel's actions in Malaysia as well (just read his article for BBC after Silverstone 2011).

Twice Webber got in the way of Vettel in Brazil 2012. It was only once that he gave way and got a thank you from the team.

#12 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:30

Nope.

Because he doesn't have 'protection' within the team the same way Seb does. Anyone with half a brain can see this.

Seb is a three times world champ. Seb has Helmut Marko. Seb had the team defending him after Turkey 2010 while most outsiders said it was Vettel's fault.

And I still don't even understand why people think Webber 'ignored' them in Silverstone.

I saw Webber pressure Vettel, and I saw Webber get alongside in one of the traction zones.. but I never saw him go side by side into a braking zone.. and I NEVER saw him get infront and then be reovertaken and then battle for the next lap and a half.

What I saw was Webber trying to pressure Vettel into a mistake.. so that he could say "Seb made a mistake and I passed him".

Webber always needs deniability because he can't blatantly **** all over the team.. because it's hard enough getting an equal fair share even when things are smooth. Most observers can see this. I don't mean one race, I mean over a long period of time. Over two or three years.

Seb doesn't have that problem.. which means he has less to fear. Everyone is talking about this at the moment but overall Seb doesn't have much to fear.. Webber is aging and probably on his last season with Redbull and Seb is the future. And it's always been this way.



Webber has been allowed to get away with not following team orders before. Webber has the support of Dietrich Mateschitz, even Webber's father has said so. Perhaps that's why Webber has been able to get away with so much.

I have always wondered why the team blamed Webber for Turkey 2010 the way they did. Could there have been secret team orders (at a time when they were illegal) for Webber to let Vettel pass? If so Webber not following them would explain why the team initially blamed Webber. I don't know. This is just speculation.

People know Webber ignored team orders in Silverstone 2011 because he admitted to it himself. Not just once but a few times.

Edited by vone, 29 March 2013 - 09:27.


#13 benzine

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:33

of course he would , a few drivers wouldn't including barrichello , go figure

#14 apoka

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:35

Only if he could...

Admittedly, I thought the same. :p


#15 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:41

Only if he could...


I'm not sure if you are answering the "Would Webber have done what Vettel did?" which could mean winning the way Vettel did, or the "Would Webber have ignored team orders if he had been in Vettel's position?" which is what I really meant. If it's the former then you do have a valid point! I have clarified what I meant afterwards but maybe the title is a bit misleading.

#16 Paul Parker

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:50

If he did/would not do this before he probably will now.

#17 dau

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:09

Congratulations. This is the 40th thread and 15th poll related to Multi21gate. Not sure there's prize though.

#18 Sakae

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:11

They are all the same, Horner?


#19 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:33

They are all the same, Horner?


Thanks for the link to that Sakae. I was not aware of it.

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#20 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:37

Congratulations. This is the 40th thread and 15th poll related to Multi21gate. Not sure there's prize though.


Thanks :clap:

A shame though! I was so looking forward to a prize :(

#21 P123

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:40

Congratulations. This is the 40th thread and 15th poll related to Multi21gate. Not sure there's prize though.


:up: It's all a bit OTT. The criticism, the apologies, the Red Bull charm offensive. Makes a good story, and sure, the F1 press was disturbed by the apparent fall from grace of their golden boy SV, but they had painted a fake image of him anyway. They're all driven to win, including SV, JB, Webber and all the other F1 media clique's 'nice guys'.

#22 krapmeister

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:50

I personally believe he followed team orders in silverstone but lied about it to make it not look pathetic that he capitulated eventually. Which made him look a little pathetic in my eyes anyway truth be told. And I don't believe he tried to get in the way of vettel in brazil. At one point he jumped right out of the way for chrissake.



Nope.

Because he doesn't have 'protection' within the team the same way Seb does. Anyone with half a brain can see this.

Seb is a three times world champ. Seb has Helmut Marko. Seb had the team defending him after Turkey 2010 while most outsiders said it was Vettel's fault.

And I still don't even understand why people think Webber 'ignored' them in Silverstone.

I saw Webber pressure Vettel, and I saw Webber get alongside in one of the traction zones.. but I never saw him go side by side into a braking zone.. and I NEVER saw him get infront and then be reovertaken and then battle for the next lap and a half.

What I saw was Webber trying to pressure Vettel into a mistake.. so that he could say "Seb made a mistake and I passed him".

Webber always needs deniability because he can't blatantly **** all over the team.. because it's hard enough getting an equal fair share even when things are smooth. Most observers can see this. I don't mean one race, I mean over a long period of time. Over two or three years.

Seb doesn't have that problem.. which means he has less to fear. Everyone is talking about this at the moment but overall Seb doesn't have much to fear.. Webber is aging and probably on his last season with Redbull and Seb is the future. And it's always been this way.


:up:

#23 Massafan

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:55

I firmly think NOT!

As we could see it in Silverstone 2011. In 2nd and 3rd positions...

#24 vone

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:59

I firmly think NOT!

As we could see it in Silverstone 2011. In 2nd and 3rd positions...


But that's just it. Webber ignored team orders to hold position in Silverstone 2011. The reason they stayed 2nd and 3rd was because Webber couldn't get past Vettel.

In Webber's own words: "I chose to race as hard and as fair as I thought was possible, trying my best to beat Seb. I got pretty close a couple of times but couldn't quite pull it off. I feel comfortable about what I did."

#25 joshb

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:55

He'd have definately tried, but whether he would have been able to make the move stick as Seb was able to, I'm not sure.

Watched the F1 show on record and how they were saying at Silverstone 2011 how Webber 'stuck his nose there to show the world he was faster'

No he didn't- he stuck his nose in there to try and pass, but ran out of room

#26 Wheels23

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:55

But like I have quoted above, Webber said: "If Fernando Alonso retires on the last lap, we're battling for victory." He gave this as one reason he didn't follow orders. This seems to imply that if it were for the race win Webber definitely would not have followed team orders to hold back.


However Webber was leading, so if he retired then Vettel would be leading. I think the difference here is that let's be honest Vettel is not going to be to one in the RBR firing line unlike Mark. If Mark does what Seb did then he's stuffed and might as well go on an internet job seeking website.

They had a 1-2 so I doubt Mark would go for it knowing that his job was in line. The thing about Silverstone is what the championship was like, how Alonso was leading and just little things here and there which make it unclear compared to what happened in Malaysia.

I don't think in that exact situation that happened in Sepang, Webber would pass Seb for the lead.

#27 apoka

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:26

However Webber was leading, so if he retired then Vettel would be leading. I think the difference here is that let's be honest Vettel is not going to be to one in the RBR firing line unlike Mark. If Mark does what Seb did then he's stuffed and might as well go on an internet job seeking website.

OK. So you think Seb is not in the firing line? That's not really my impression when looking at pretty much all F1 websites and dozens of forum threads.

If you mean that Webber is in the firing line in the sense that his job is at stake, then this is not really down to those incidents, but more because of his age and scoring less points than Vettel.

They had a 1-2 so I doubt Mark would go for it knowing that his job was in line. The thing about Silverstone is what the championship was like, how Alonso was leading and just little things here and there which make it unclear compared to what happened in Malaysia.

Isn't there even more motivation to go for 7 more points in a 1-2 compared to 3 points at Silverstone? I don't understand what you are trying to say. What does Alonso leading mean? He was the most dangerous challenger for RB at that point and if the RBs had a crash it might have become interesting in the WDC again (not in hindsight of course).


#28 One

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:31

Massa would have done differently to Seb for sure.
Alosno would have done differently to Seb.
Button would have done differently to Seb for sure.
Ham would have done differently to Seb.
Kimi would have done differently to Seb.
Romain would have done differently to Seb.
Rosberg proved in malaysia that he would have done differently to Seb.
Kamui would have done differently to Seb.
Paul would have done differently to Seb.
Adian would have done differently to Seb.
Heikki would have done differently to Seb.

Webber would have raced Vettel harder than any other who I listed above, it is because Red Bull team boss thinks that race driver just race no matter wht pit wall suggests them to follow team's recommendation.

#29 Wheels23

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 13:48

OK. So you think Seb is not in the firing line? That's not really my impression when looking at pretty much all F1 websites and dozens of forum threads.

If you mean that Webber is in the firing line in the sense that his job is at stake, then this is not really down to those incidents, but more because of his age and scoring less points than Vettel.


Isn't there even more motivation to go for 7 more points in a 1-2 compared to 3 points at Silverstone? I don't understand what you are trying to say. What does Alonso leading mean? He was the most dangerous challenger for RB at that point and if the RBs had a crash it might have become interesting in the WDC again (not in hindsight of course).


RBR would rather keep Vettel right? 3x WDC, young and well bloody fast. They don't want him to lose him to his rivals. So naturally if Webber does what he does in passing Seb and Seb is unhappy, RBR would want to keep him rather than Mark. So if Mark does pass Seb then he will be on the firing line because they passed their 'No.1' driver and they would have done their PR stuff.

So would Webber do it if everything was perfect? Yes but in the situation of his career, Red Bull, Vettel and Team Orders, he won't dare do it especially to keep Seb from winning and getting ahead of his rivals.

That's how I see it. Webber may gain 7 points and a win but he will lose a lot more. If you compare to what Vettel did.

#30 MikeV1987

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 13:52

Definitely, I think this whole Sepang issue got blown way out of proportion just because it's Vettel. If the roles were reversed these Vettel haters would still back Webber and slam Vettel for being too slow or something. Haters gonna hate as they say ;)

Besides, it's no secret how manipulative the media can be. Someone made a great post in one of the other threads regarding this, I'd like to post it but I can't find it in the mess of thread pages. It's still funny how the people who spend their day on here slamming Vettel choose to conveniently ignore factual posts just because it doesn't fit into their anti-Vettel agenda.

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 March 2013 - 13:59.


#31 Sennasational

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 13:56

Definitely, I think this whole Sepang issue got blown way out of proportion just because it's Vettel. If the roles were reversed these Vettel haters would still back Webber and slam Vettel for being too slow or something. Haters gonna hate as they say ;)


Yeah I can imagine them now, probably saying some nonsense like ''Get him out of the way. He is too slow''...

...Oh wait.

#32 MikeV1987

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:03

Yeah I can imagine them now, probably saying some nonsense like ''Get him out of the way. He is too slow''...

...Oh wait.


Do you know why he said that to his team? Not saying I agree with it, but due to the circumstances I can understand his annoyed tone.

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 March 2013 - 14:04.


#33 Sennasational

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:10

Do you know why he said that to his team? Not saying I agree with it, but due to the circumstances I can understand his annoyed tone.


But your criticism of Webber fans was that they might have said it about Vettel...when Vettel (the person you're using that to excuse) said it himself about Webber. I just thought that was an especially funny moment of hypocrisy, that's all.

#34 Skinnyguy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:13

Of course he would. How can anyone doubt? He already did! Well, he tried to at least.



#35 MikeV1987

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:19

But your criticism of Webber fans was that they might have said it about Vettel...when Vettel (the person you're using that to excuse) said it himself about Webber. I just thought that was an especially funny moment of hypocrisy, that's all.


I didn't mean the fans would specifically say "hes slow" if the roles were reversed, I was just using that as an example. Over analyzing much?

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 March 2013 - 14:20.


#36 sv401

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:23

Alosno would have done differently to Seb.


I would not be too sure about that. Alonso really does not like it when the team-mate becomes an obstacle to his WDC ambitions, there are several examples of that from the past. Although he might indeed have done differently by complaining to the team to get the other driver out of the way until it actually happens.

Button would have done differently to Seb for sure.


Turkey 2010 ?

Ham would have done differently to Seb.


Hungary 2007 ?

Really, there are probably many drivers that could not be trusted to give up the opportunity to win a race while they are title contenders, especially when the relationship between the team-mates is as bad as it is between the Red Bull drivers.

Edited by sv401, 29 March 2013 - 14:29.


#37 Sennasational

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:30

I didn't mean the fans would specifically say "hes slow" if the roles were reversed, I was just using that as an example. Over analyzing much?


You were using it as an example to criticize Vettel 'haters'. It just so happens Vettel said this about Webber, so does that make him a Webber 'hater'?

I'm honestly quite sick of the defense of Vettel in this scenario, what he did was wrong. People trying to excuse him by saying Webber has done it before and that he would have done it again seem to not understand that isn't an acceptable excuse in society. Don't get me wrong, if Webber has done it before and gone unpunished then there is an argument that Vettel should receive no punishment either, but that doesn't make what he did correct, it just makes Christian Horner's authority over his drivers non-existent.

#38 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:35

According to Horner, Webber would have the same thing.

‘If Fernando Alonso or Lewis Hamilton had been in that position, they would have done the same.

‘If Mark Webber had been in that position… we have seen him do the same. Let’s not kid ourselves that this is something unique to Sebastian.’


#39 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:38

Don't get me wrong, if Webber has done it before and gone unpunished then there is an argument that Vettel should receive no punishment either, but that doesn't make what he did correct, it just makes Christian Horner's authority over his drivers non-existent.

Don't you think Silverstone 2011 is exactly the same scenario as Malaysia 2013 with the exception that Webber could not get the job done?


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#40 MikeV1987

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:41

You were using it as an example to criticize Vettel 'haters'. It just so happens Vettel said this about Webber, so does that make him a Webber 'hater'?

I'm honestly quite sick of the defense of Vettel in this scenario, what he did was wrong. People trying to excuse him by saying Webber has done it before and that he would have done it again seem to not understand that isn't an acceptable excuse in society. Don't get me wrong, if Webber has done it before and gone unpunished then there is an argument that Vettel should receive no punishment either, but that doesn't make what he did correct, it just makes Christian Horner's authority over his drivers non-existent.


The only thing Vettel did wrong was apologize. What I was originally getting at was if it was Webber passing Vettel for the win, I highly doubt people would say "What Webber did was wrong". The example I used wasn't meant to have any relevance to what actually happened in the race, considering it was a fantasy scenerio in which the roles were reversed. again, over analyzing much?

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 March 2013 - 14:44.


#41 Sennasational

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:42

Don't you think Silverstone 2011 is exactly the same scenario as Malaysia 2013 with the exception that Webber could not get the job done?


Even if it was, that doesn't make Seb right to do what he did. This is the point a lot of people seem to be forgetting.

#42 Skinnyguy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:56

The only thing Vettel did wrong was apologize.


And making silly excuses. "It wasn´t on purpose". I hate drivers not taking responsability for their actions, how easy it would have been "They told me not to attack but I had the pace to win so I went for it anyway"?.

I support his on track behaviour but he was a total ass after it.

#43 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:57

How can anyone with any integrity say they think it's unlikely or definitely not Mark wouldn't have done the same? Seriously..

@sennasational This thread isn't about whether what Seb did was right or wrong. It's about whether people think Mark would've done the same thing. He's proved in the past he certainly would ignore the order.

#44 MikeV1987

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 14:59

And making silly excuses. "It wasn´t on purpose". I hate drivers not taking responsability for their actions, how easy it would have been "They told me not to attack but I had the pace to win so I went for it anyway"?.

I support his on track behaviour but he was a total ass after it.


His apologies and quotes were largely manipulated by various media outlets, but that is a whole other topic. :)

#45 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 15:00

Even if it was, that doesn't make Seb right to do what he did. This is the point a lot of people seem to be forgetting.

So, what do you want RBR to do with Vettel? He did issue an apology to Webber and the team. I did not see Webber doing the same for Silverstone 2011 or even Brazil 2012?

#46 MikeV1987

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 15:01

Even if it was, that doesn't make Seb right to do what he did. This is the point a lot of people seem to be forgetting.


So was Mark wrong when he did the same? or attempted I should say. Like I said on the page before, if it was Mark passing Seb in Malaysia, I highly doubt you and most other people here would say Mark was in the wrong.

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 March 2013 - 15:04.


#47 Skinnyguy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 15:08

His apologies and quotes were largely manipulated by various media outlets, but that is a whole other topic. :)


I don´t know. There was no need for manipulation to make him look bad really.

#48 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 15:10

And making silly excuses. "It wasn´t on purpose". I hate drivers not taking responsability for their actions, how easy it would have been "They told me not to attack but I had the pace to win so I went for it anyway"?.

I support his on track behaviour but he was a total ass after it.

"It was not on purpose" - that was a silly answer for his action.

I guess he should have just kept quiet and get back to his PR team to draft him some acceptable responses to the press.

#49 Sennasational

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 15:37

How can anyone with any integrity say they think it's unlikely or definitely not Mark wouldn't have done the same? Seriously..

@sennasational This thread isn't about whether what Seb did was right or wrong. It's about whether people think Mark would've done the same thing. He's proved in the past he certainly would ignore the order.


This thread is clearly about excusing Vettel's actions. Otherwise it would not exist. Don't be naive.

#50 mnmracer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 15:56

This thread is clearly about excusing Vettel's actions. Otherwise it would not exist. Don't be naive.

No, it's about hypocrites like you who desperately want to deny that both situations are to be judged the same, good or bad.
If you want to judge Webber differently for doing the same thing, that hipocracy is something you have to live with.

Edited by mnmracer, 29 March 2013 - 15:56.