24 replies to this topic

[Alan Cox]

A 'heads up' to advise you of the upcoming documentary on Donald Campbell which is scheduled to be shown tomorrow evening at 8pm on BBC2
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01rrk63

[f1steveuk]

If they had shown it ten days ago, it could have gone out on his birthday!

[Gary C]

some rather decent home movie film in it, if nothing else.

[Coral]

I watched it, it did not tell you anything you did not already know, but as I love anything to do with Donald Campbell, I really enjoyed it.

[Vitesse2]

I realise that the programme was about Campbell, but it would have been nice if they'd acknowledged that John Cobb held the LSR from 1939 to 1964.

They also gave the impression that Malcolm Campbell's WSR stood until Donald broke it. Wrong. Stanley Sayres' boat 'Slo-Mo-Shun IV' held it for five years in the early 50s.

Craig Breedlove's comment about Malcolm Campbell establishing Bonneville as a speed venue was a bit strange too: Ab Jenkins was there earlier. But maybe that's just me being pernickity ;)

Edited by Vitesse2, 31 March 2013 - 20:08.

[D-Type]

A good programme bringing that touched on Campbell being a 'driven man'

One question that came to mind is the numbering of the unlimited boats:
KayeDon's Miss England III was K1
Sir Malcolm's Bluebirds were K3 and K4
Cobb's Crusader was K6
Donald's Bluebird was K7

Does anyone know which boats carried K2 and K5?

Edited by D-Type, 31 March 2013 - 21:08.

[Gary C]

did anyone notice the number plate on Gina's Rangie? That was a nice touch, I thought.

[D-Type]

Yes - "K 7 DAD"

[RTH]

Interesting, enlightening and enjoyable.

[taylov]

D-Type, on Mar 31 2013, 20:18, said:

A good programme bringing that touched on Campbell being a 'driven man'

One question that came to mind is the numbering of the unlimited boats:
KayeDon's Miss England III was K1
Sir Malcolm's Bluebirds were K3 and K4
Cobb's Crusader was K6
Donald's Bluebird was K7

Does anyone know which boats carried K2 and K5?

Scott-Paine's "Miss Britain III" was K2 and still carried the number when it was at Greenwich. Is it still there?

The Henning-Lee's hydroplane "White Hawk" carried K5 when it ran at Windermere in 1952. See http://www.foils.org/henning.htm

Tony

Edited by taylov, 31 March 2013 - 21:28.

[elansprint72]

Redefined the expression "broke". Large house in Surrey; 20+ "staff" pissing about in Coniston/Australia/Bonneville for months on end, year after year.

[DogEarred]

Does anyone remember a BBC play about him, years ago? Starred Anthony Hopkins. Seemed to be as historically correct as it could be at the time. It did though bring to my attention Hopkins's status as a great actor.

[D-Type]

taylov, on Mar 31 2013, 21:24, said:

Scott-Paine's "Miss Britain III" was K2 and still carried the number when it was at Greenwich. Is it still there?

The Henning-Lee's hydroplane "White Hawk" carried K5 when it ran at Windermere in 1952. See http://www.foils.org/henning.htm

Tony

Thanks. The link tells a story I've never come across before.

[f1steveuk]

Thoroughly unimpressed to be honest, and as usual, a wasted opportunity.

I was contacted by Tern nearly two years, and at the time, I got the impression they were going to do it well, and do it right. I put them in touch with Craig Breedlove, who wasn't at all keen, and both I and Norm' Junior had to convince him (Craig is more keen to promote his own current project, the footage of which they said they would be included, wasn't!).

I supplied not only a copy of my book on the Campbell's, as yet the only one written with help from the family with access to ALL the family documents, but a pile of unpublished research notes. They have yet to pay for the book, or return it, similarly for the notes, but worse, they ignored the contents of both, deciding to continue all the old fallacies, depicting them as fact, using the incorrect cockpit transcript etc, and basically get the basics, wrong!

Ok, I was fortunate, I got to meet and talk to people like Lady Dorothy Campbell, and I realise they may have been a bias to what they said, but I did make the effort to speak to both supporters AND detractors, but the programme decided to go the age old route. Only John Pearson showed any real emotion, at the very end, but I believe now, even Gina has told the story so often, there's nothing new to say, the fact that this is now the fourth doco' called "Speed King" about a Campbell, shows a lack of originality, and to have left out Lew' Norris was a travesty. The only highlight for me was seeing Goldie Gardner taking photo's and the naming of Blue Bird K4 in 1939.

Sorry, I thought the programme inaccurate and misleading.

To confirm Taylov's comment, K2 was indeed Hubert Scott-Paine's Miss Great Britain III, though she was actually built for the unlimited sea record, "Scotty" having no intention of competing for the WWSR as such. K5 was Frank and Stella Hanning-Lee's hydrofoil Whitehawk. "Designed" by Ken Norris, (while his brother Lew' was helping Reid Railton and Corlett re-design K4), Ken arrived at the Hanning-Lee's to be shown the design, drawn full size in chalk, on a cellar wall, just an outline!! Whitehawk was doomed to failure because of cavitation on a hydrofoil. K5 should have been issued to Empire Day, which was built to allow T E Shaw (Lawrence of Arabia) to take the 1.5litre record, before putting a Napier Lion in to the hull to go for the WWSR. Shaw's death put and end to the project, and because Empire Day was first built with the 1.5 engine, K5 went to Whitehawk.

[D-Type]

Memo to self: "Must get a copy of Leap into Legend"

[Steve L]

There were some very interesting snippets of footage I hadn't seen before such as the building and early running of Bluebird CN7, but on the whole I thought it was a missed opportunity too.

Here is some pre war colour footage I found relating to "Empire Day".

Empire Day Trials

[f1steveuk]

Steve L, on Apr 1 2013, 14:29, said:

There were some very interesting snippets of footage I hadn't seen before such as the building and early running of Bluebird CN7, but on the whole I thought it was a missed opportunity too.

Here is some pre war colour footage I found relating to "Empire Day".

Empire Day Trials

I have just watched that with my jaw firmly on the ground, that footage is exceptionally rare. Previously I have ever only known of less than 15 seconds of footage of this boat, and that was black and white as it went down the slip way. Quite stunning!

[pete53]

DogEarred, on Apr 1 2013, 11:08, said:

Does anyone remember a BBC play about him, years ago? Starred Anthony Hopkins. Seemed to be as historically correct as it could be at the time. It did though bring to my attention Hopkins's status as a great actor.

I do remember this production although I am surprised to find that it was made as long ago as 1988. I haven't seen it since although it is available on DVD.

[f1steveuk]

pete53, on Apr 1 2013, 17:35, said:

I do remember this production although I am surprised to find that it was made as long ago as 1988. I haven't seen it since although it is available on DVD.

Tony Maylam's "Across the Lake", Anthony Hopkins was rather good. I sat next to Jean Wales at a private viewing, and twice she said something like "look Donald's going to get out on the lake", then realise it was Tony, and say, "he's rather good isn't he, I keep thinking it's Donald". There have been calls for it to be re-run, or released on DVD, but it's with the National film library now, and they aren't keen, but there have been some unofficial ones on Ebay, but I didn't say that!

The replica K7 was driven by Alan de Cadenet, though it only taxied. It was quite an eye opener to sit in the replica and look down Coniston, you just couldn't imagine what is was like at 300! Different breed.

[crooky369]

RTH, on Mar 31 2013, 22:02, said:

Interesting, enlightening and enjoyable.

Glad I'm not the only one. In the three or four years I've visited this board I don't think one programme has been universally praised, there's always something wrong that someone points out. These documentaries have to cater to a far greater audience than just the many doubters (albeit very knowledgeable) that visit this forum and I think that the BBC documentaries largely do a very good job of it.

I think they'd die in shock if they ever saw the dross on the likes of Discovery or National Geographic.

[Tim Murray]

f1steveuk, on Apr 1 2013, 18:55, said:

... but there have been some unofficial ones on Ebay ...

... and elsewhere - this one sounds interesting:

http://www.60fixings...ilm-Dvd-Box-Set

[taylov]

Steve L, on Apr 1 2013, 13:29, said:

There were some very interesting snippets of footage I hadn't seen before such as the building and early running of Bluebird CN7, but on the whole I thought it was a missed opportunity too.

Here is some pre war colour footage I found relating to "Empire Day".

Here are 4 commercial postcards from my collection taken at the 2 trials of "Empire Day". AFAIK she only ever ran with the 1.5L motor. The shot of the boat with a canopy is unusual.

Tony

[f1steveuk]

Those are superb!!

Crooky, don't get me wrong, I am happy that these doco's are made, and keep the memory alive, regardless of subject, but to make the fourth one on a subject and repeat all the same errors, when you have access to the people involved, shows a lack of research. I say this as a TV researcher! Repeating errors doesn't suddenly make them right, it compounds the errors, worse if the subjects are gone, and cannot argue the case.

[rbm]

elansprint72, on Mar 31 2013, 22:48, said:

Redefined the expression "broke". Large house in Surrey; 20+ "staff" pissing about in Coniston/Australia/Bonneville for months on end, year after year.

Many people have portrayed an image of wealth and affluence, whilst in financial difficulties.

When I worked in the village (for 14 years) the anecdotal evidence was a number of small businesses suffered a very hard winter after Jan the 4th 1967.

[Bernard]

f1steveuk, on Apr 1 2013, 17:55, said:

Tony Maylam's "Across the Lake", Anthony Hopkins was rather good. I sat next to Jean Wales at a private viewing, and twice she said something like "look Donald's going to get out on the lake", then realise it was Tony, and say, "he's rather good isn't he, I keep thinking it's Donald". There have been calls for it to be re-run, or released on DVD, but it's with the National film library now, and they aren't keen, but there have been some unofficial ones on Ebay, but I didn't say that!

The replica K7 was driven by Alan de Cadenet, though it only taxied. It was quite an eye opener to sit in the replica and look down Coniston, you just couldn't imagine what is was like at 300! Different breed.

Some on the internet too if you look.....