47 replies to this topic

[Ali_G]

just to say that I know that it is a bad time to be a mac fan at the moment. But the stuff out of some fans is just ridiculous.

A lot of Mac fans on this board seem to hold a grudge agains't Michael Schumacher dominating this years championship. What is wrong with this. Do they remember Mika Hakkinen dominating the first part of the 98 Championship at all.

Anotehr poster even went on to say that Micheal Shumacher is wrecking the championship because he is dominating it so much.

But the wrost thing of all is the constant remarks by some McLaren fans about how the FIA are letting Ferrari off with everything. They are complaining about Ferrari's TC which is legal by FIA ruling. What gets me about is that McLaren has a similar system but which is just a poorer system.

So please mac fans. Don't winge anymore.

Niall

[130R]

Hi Niall, whats up?


First of all, I am not a Mac fan, per se, but I will respond to your understandable post.

I'm not sure anyone holds a grudge against Schuey for his performance thus far. Ferrari has built a sensational car, and Michael has driven well. Its only been two races mate. He was as dominant point-wise last year. I think some are fearful it could be a boring season for them. Its nice when the WDC goes down to the wire! Dontcha think?


Now, with regards to the FIA, there have been some controversial rulings over the years that lead some to raise an eyebrow. Did you know that Ferrari are the only team to ever successfully appeal an FIA ruling? Ever! This is not whining, its a fact. Is the FIA favoring Ferrari, probably not, I think they favor themselves more than anything, and to some that implies favoring their crown jewel, Ferrari.

Complaints regarding Ferrari's so-called TC (or traction assist as I like to call it) have been discused ad nauseum elswhere on this forum. I think everybody's ready to move on, Niall.

And one other thing, if nobody on this board where to "winge" (that can also mean disagree, discuss, debate, Niall) then there wouldn't be much to talk about!

Best to you, mate!

[Igofaster]

Niall,

I agree with you.

Mac fans whinge to the point of being boring.

As for Ferrari being the only team to successfully appeal an FIA decision.... They are also the only team consistently in the championship since the 50's when it started, and you've gotta win an appeal sometime in a 50 year span.

As For Jordan...

Dtiofaigh ar La!!!

[Smooth]

Originally posted by 130R
Did you know that Ferrari are the only team to ever successfully appeal an FIA ruling? Ever!

Which ruling? Just curious.....I guess I didn't know that.

[Greg L]

Originally posted by Smooth


Which ruling? Just curious.....I guess I didn't know that.

I can think of the Malaysia 1999 barge board incident as one example. Are there others?

[Smooth]

I guess Malaysia: though that was a Stewards ruling, technically speaking. other teams have appealed a stewards decision succesfully, no?

[Witt]

Niall,

Don't mean to be all nostalgic, but the same crap came from the red corner at the start of 98.

What goes around comes around.

[A3]

I'm on neither side, and I have to agree with Witt.

[Clatter]

Ali_G,

Why do you feel it is necessary to start what is so obviously a flamebait thread?

Do you think this makes Ferrari fans better than Mac fans?

[BuzzingHornet]

Just enjoy being a fan of the current best team in F1, if you don't want to read criticism/tittle tattle then best not come to an F1 BB ;)

The Ferrari is beautiful, both drivers are doing a great job and traction control is soon to be legal, by Spain there will be very little to bitch about...

[SchuMic]

FLAMEBAIT! Run! Run (Forrest)!

;)

[Highlander]

Ali.
I am a McLaren fan, poor and simply because I support David. I have not been whining over the fact that Ferrari and Michael have won two races.
The tidy alway turns, and I think we will have some nice competitiona races as the season progresses.

[Pink Panther]

McLaren fans, Ferrari fans, Hakkinen fans, Schumacher fans.....all whiners!!!!!!!

Now, we Minardi fans instead........

[Pink Panther]

Highlander, well, in your case, even if Ferrari has kicked some serious McLaren ass.....you are happy.......because........David is 10........Mika is 1..........and after all Mika has been the #1 opponent of david for 3 years straight now!!!!! just like Ferrari fans, enjoy it while it lasts!!!!!

[Smooth]

Originally posted by Pink Panther
Now, we Minardi fans instead........

Were they actually able to get a car on the grid this year? I hadn't noticed! :yawn:

[Bruce]

Schumic - love the avatar - who is she?

[Pink Panther]

I didn't say Minardi is better, i said us fans are....


Oh come one, Smooth, in 4 weeks they managed to build a better chassis than McLaren, give them some credit for Pete's sake!!!!

[RJL]

Niall,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. I am old enough now that I don't really care who wins each weekend, I just want a good show. Let the best team win, as far as I am concerned. I AM getting tired of the incessant whinging about how Ferarri are cheating and how the FIA is in on it. It really does no-one any good to claim that the sport's governing body is conspiring with one of the participants. Maybe its just me but it seems rather far fetched.

The FIA is the FIA, sometimes we may not like their decisions; but it is very unreasonable to question their impartiality. Max said when the decision to allow TC was made that it was because all the inuendo about who might or might not be cheating was unacceptable, and this was the only way to ensure a level playing field and stop the rumours. Now I'm not a fan of "driver aids" but this reasoning made sense to me.

To those who really, truly believe the FIA is knowingly allowing Ferrari to run illegal systems in order to manipulate the outcome of the World Champoinship I say:

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there's somebody following you."

[Pink Panther]

I agree, I always preferred Gilles Villeneuve philosophy. Each race is a race and you give all you have. Championship? I don't really care. I rather see a driver I like win 6-7 races and arrive third in the WDC than him winning twice and get the title.

[Mila]

Ali_G, I tend to agree about the whining business. after all, when a winning driver is given a winning car, what is he suppose to do? (to add, though, I don't recall any complaints or suspicions from the Ferrari fans here concerning MH's magic starts last year.;))

I do have to say that suspicion is only inevitable when a proponent of the FIA expresses favoritism toward a particular team. Ferrari is a crucial element when we consider the prestige and commercial value of F1, and I do believe that the team, knowing this, has on occasion held the governing body over a barrel.

[MacFan]

I am MacFan, and I can't remember whinging at all

[Sean L]

Originally posted by Mila
...I don't recall any complaints or suspicions from the Ferrari fans here concerning MH's magic starts last year.;)).

I'm a Ferrari fan and quite happy that they got South African Anton Sitpinovic, Mclaren's software guru. He's really helped Schumi's starts in the first 2 races.

[Tomerell]

They are complaining about Ferrari's TC which is legal by FIA ruling. What gets me about is that McLaren has a similar system but which is just a poorer system.

If that is the case perhaps McLaren should do what Ferrari did back in 98 and get the system banned in Brazil...

[Arnaldo]

Ali, salaam amigo, when you can justify why Ferrari insisted to postpone the legalisation of TRACS until Spain, then maybe you will have more credibility in this post. Until then, a "Happy Topoate" to you.

[Max Torque]

Niall has a point. Some of us indeed complain.
However, I believe that this happens everytime a team seems to be dominating and some of the rival team's fans are bitter. And this happens everywhere anyway, not just in F1, not just in sports even. I see that in politics all the time.
It's part of a society in which people take sides. You can't expect your rivals (all of them anyway) to just take it and say nothing. It doesn't happen. Especially when this particular situation is refueled every now and then by F1 people's comments (HHF, Lauda the other day...). Someone who needs to place the blame of failure somewhere will find this welcome. It's not like they have an agenda, or that they are stupid one-dimensional people. It's only human nature.

Anyway, before you know it, you guys will be the ones who will be whinning again, so enjoy this while it lasts.;)

[Tomerell]

http://www.soft-toon...f101/gp0105.jpg

Here's something for the misunderstood Ferrari fans to think about...;););)

[pRy]

I'm a Mika fan and although its hard and sometimes upsetting seeing him running so far back from the front, I do hand it to Ferrari that they have got it right this year, and good for them. I dont hold it against Michael either, he is the best at the moment, but im sure Mika can and will give him a run for his money before the season is out. Mika may well prefer to be the chaser rather than the chased.

[ebe]

130R:

>>Did you know that Ferrari are the only team to ever successfully >>appeal an FIA ruling?

In 1976 James Hunt (McLaren) was disqualified after winning inSpain because of an illegal rear wing.
McLaren appealed later and the victory was once again
Hunt's.

[HartleyHare]

There are only a couple of letters between whining and winning...

Perhaps we should talk about Brabham fans? They did both.

[Ali_G]

Originally posted by Arnaldo
Ali, salaam amigo, when you can justify why Ferrari insisted to postpone the legalisation of TRACS until Spain, then maybe you will have more credibility in this post. Until then, a "Happy Topoate" to you.

Just to say that when a team has an advantage isn't it normal for them not to want to give it up.

I am just talingin this thread about some McLaren fans. Most are not acting in this way at all.

Niall

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by RJL
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there's somebody following you."

You prolly mean "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that nobody's out to get you".

The_Z_Man

[MuMu]

Yawn. A thread where the fans of one team tells everyone that they hate all the fans of another team because their team is winning at the moment.
Scraping the barrel here are we Ali?

Respect.

[Ali_G]

Originally posted by MuMu
Yawn. A thread where the fans of one team tells everyone that they hate all the fans of another team because their team is winning at the moment.
Scraping the barrel here are we Ali?

Respect.

Trying to cause an arguement is it MuMu?

While all other posters take an educated view on this subect you just try to cause an arguement. How typical.

[Yassa Qureshi]

If we consider the situation of 1998 when Mclaren was some 1.5 seconds faster than Ferrari and then Michael Schumacher & Ferrari took the championship battle to last round then Hakinnen & Mclaren should do the same if they have the ability.

I personally feel that Ali_G is 100% correct in his view that Macs' fans are a frustrated by the achievements of Michael Schumacher & Ferrari.

I remember past years whenever Michael Scumacher wins, his win is associated to some kind of illegal support, while at Benetton or Ferrari. Even one of the Columnist at Atlas F1 BB has written these kind of things.

A win is a win and it should be appreciated all the way as FIA is there to govern the law enforcement. Those who accuse FIA for supporting Ferrari are just spoiling their own thoughts and visions about this game and thats why when their favourite team or driver wins they are happy and FIA is correct but when their non-favourite wins, they find some sort of favourism from the Governing Body.

It is a fact that recent era has saw Michael Schumacher as the Greatest F1 driver and right now there is no other driver to compete him.

I know that most of you would point out here that Mr. X is really fast and good driver than MS but Mr. X has not the car. I would say here that "thats the way life is....". All human beings don't get equal chances but we also know that Luck favours the Brave.

If Hakinnen or JV are real good than this is the time that they should prove their metal. Like Schumacher did in 1996 in Spain. He, then, had a good car but it was no comparasion to Williams in terms of power & reliability. Yet he beat Williams & Macs by single handedly in RAIN and in dry too. Although I agree that in Monza and Belgium he was lucky. That is the point that I am trying to make here....

Where was Hakinnen before 1998???? He was just an average driver. Had not won a single GP. But when he got the CAR he was suddenly grabbing consecutive poles & wins. He sould have proved his worth but alas he didn't.

So these are the things that one should note before accusing FIA or Ferrari or anyother team. Success comes with hard working & patience. And Ferrari has waited for some 20 years. Its their time now......

[Brackets]

Originally posted by Yassa Qureshi
Success comes with hard working & patience.

Oh? And Mika just 'got' the car, right? I'll have to admit: you've lost me.

[CFC1888]

McLaren...lost??

Aren't they in Interlagos!!!


hahaha:)

[Sammyed]

Let's see how they go on today's practice, in order to have a-more-realistic view and idea of what's going on with the macs.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Yassa Qureshi
If we consider the situation of 1998 when Mclaren was some 1.5 seconds faster than Ferrari and then Michael Schumacher & Ferrari took the championship battle to last round then Hakinnen & Mclaren should do the same if they have the ability.
...

1.5 seconds faster than the Ferrari ? How do you figure ? Please, allow me to sully this Rah rah Schumacher is God, his opponents are worthless passengers post with some facts.

I'll assume that you are talking qualifying speed here.

BF: Best Ferrari
SF: Second Ferrari
I'm not including the second Maclaren. I'll take out the the best and worst result, marked with an asterisk.

Those who don't like statistics should now avert their eyes.

Australia '98
BF:+0.757
SF:+1.757

Brazil '98
BF:+1.158
SF:+1.357

Argentina '98
BF:+0.399
SF:+0.928

Imola '98
BF:+0.464
SF:+1.196

Spain '98
BF:+1.523* worst
SF:+2.088* worst

Monaco '98
BF:+0.904
SF:+1.914

Canada '98
BF:+0.284
Sf:+1.403

France '98
BF:+0.230
SF:+0.598

Silverstone '98
BF:+0.449
SF:+1.165

Austria '98
BF:+0.034
SF:+1.100

Germany '98
BF:+1.432
SF:+1.621

Hungary '98
BF:+0.393
SF:+1.352

Belgium '98
BF:+1.345
SF:+1.507

Italy '98
BF:-0.390* best
SF:+0.480

Luxembourg '98
BF:-0.379
SF:-0.033* best

Japan '98
BF:-0.178
SF:+1.726

Average '98
BF:+0.521
SF:+1.156

Even in the worst case scenario, best MacLaren vs Second Ferrari, the average is not 1.5 seconds a lap.

More over the Ferrari team suffered 2 mechanical DNFs against 5 for McLaren, which I'm sure must help.

You don't have to believe me, everything is here

The_Z_Man

[Pink Panther]

"In 1976 James Hunt (McLaren) was disqualified after winning inSpain because of an illegal rear wing.
McLaren appealed later and the victory was once again
Hunt's."

Actually, the entire chassis was one inch wider than the maximum allowed. James got his 9 points back and took the title from Lauda by one point.

[JDeRosa]

Originally posted by Pink Panther
Oh come one, Smooth, in 4 weeks they managed to build a better chassis than McLaren, give them some credit for Pete's sake!!!!

Absolutely......give 'em some more money and a proper engine, and they'd easily challenge the mid-runners!!

[SchuMic]

Originally posted by Bruce
Schumic - love the avatar - who is she?

Thanx Bruce.

It's a woman character taken from a Belgian comic strip. The author draws fabulous & gorgeous babes...

[Highlander]

Originally posted by Pink Panther
Highlander. enjoy it while it lasts!!!!!

Pink Panther.
Your are quite correct. I will enjoy it while it lasts. And if David gets ahead of Michael in the points, I will enjoy it even more.
And, this is no flame bait. Michael is the best out there at the moment. So if David beats him, I will realish the sweetness of it.
Good luck to your team on Sunday.

[Pink Panther]

well, I hope the finish the race, it would be an accomplishment if at leastthey can finish ahead of one or two other cars.

If David wins the WDC beating Mika and Schumi, it would be a hell of an accomplishment, it would go down in history

[neoplanet]

Originally posted by Tomerell
http://www.soft-toon...f101/gp0105.jpg

Here's something for the misunderstood Ferrari fans to think about...;););)

Wlee done!! I love it

[Ali_G]

its funny cause its true ;)

Niall

[100cc]

its part of being a supporter of a certain team/driver, you say the others are cheating etc......
Motorsports is a sport where the winners often get accused of cheating, its the way it is.
I do agree however that some fans do go overboard with the FIA(T) thing.

[MacFan]

Originally posted by Pink Panther
"In 1976 James Hunt (McLaren) was disqualified after winning inSpain because of an illegal rear wing.
McLaren appealed later and the victory was once again
Hunt's."

Actually, the entire chassis was one inch wider than the maximum allowed. James got his 9 points back and took the title from Lauda by one point.

Actually, the car was wider than the maximum due only to tyre bulge, nothing to do with the chassis at all. The maximum width regulation had been introduced earlier that year. How did they arrive at the figure for maximum allowable width? By measuring the width of the widest car, the McLaren. If the disqualification had stood, that would have been worse than the FIAsco after the '99 Malaysian GP.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Tomerell
http://www.soft-toon...f101/gp0105.jpg

Here's something for the misunderstood Ferrari fans to think about...;););)

Thanks Tomerell.

I think you may have it a bit wrong though. Those were the guys who did it last year.

I know because the guy on the left is the one who does it for DC, he can't even focus enough to use his texta pen ...