27 replies to this topic

[Magoo]

Probably not much here you anoraks haven't buttoned down long ago, just a little feature on the Boyle Maserati, one of the great stories and most beloved cars of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway...Please feel free to sharpshoot or weigh in with more info -- we value your feedback, thanks...

Another Look at the Boyle Maserati 8CTF | Mac's Motor City Garage.com

[Alan Cox]

Thanks for reproducing the story here. Always worth remembering the wonderful 'Boyle Special' and how successful it was.

[Magoo]

You're very welcome. I

I must admit that my knowledge of the history of the 8CTF cars on their own side of the Atlantic is highly lacking. (As well as on other Masers that ran Indy.) Not to be fishing but no doubt there are experts here and I welcome being schooled on the topic.

[arttidesco]

Is this the same 8CTF that is now part of the Collier Collection ?

Relevant answers may be credited and used in a forth coming blog.

[Alan Cox]

Is this the same 8CTF that is now part of the Collier Collection ?

No, Ralph. If you read to the bottom of the story, you will see that it lives in the Indianapolis Museum

[David McKinney]

I must admit that my knowledge of the history of the 8CTF cars on their own side of the Atlantic is highly lacking. Not to be fishing but no doubt there are experts here and I welcome being schooled on the topic.

Only European race for the Boyle/Shaw car (3032) was the 1938 Italian GP (Trossi) before it crossed the Atlantic

Earlier in 1938 3030 and 3031 had appeared in the Tripoli GP (Trossi and Varzi respectively) and the German GP and the Coppa Ciano (Trossi and Zehender), but only 3030 was out for the Coppa Acerbo (shared by Trossi and Villoresi). For the Italian GP Trossi – as mentioned – had 3032, Zehender presumably 3031 and Villoresi 3030. Villoresi was the only entry at Donington, in which car I’m not certain

In 1939 the works did not race until the German GP, where Villoresi was in 3030 and Pietsch in 3031

They also appeared at the Swiss GP under the aegis of Ecurie Bleue, Dreyfus racing 3030 but Raph in 3031 being a non-starter

Both cars were entered in the 1940 Indianapolis 500 by Ecurie Lucy O’Reilly Schell, 3030 for Dreyfus and 3031 for Lebègue, though only the latter car started, shared by both drivers

While the Boyle organisation retained 3032 for Shaw’s use in 1941, 3030 was entered by Lou Moore Inc for Mauri Rose, and 3031 by Elgin Piston Pins for Duke Nalon, and the subsequent US histories of all three cars has been discussed elsewehere on this forum

3030 is the car now in the Collier Museum. 3031 returned to Europe for historic racing in the ’60s but last I heard was back in the States with Joel Finn. And 3032 has been in the Indianapolis museum since 1955

[Tim Murray]

While the Boyle organisation retained 3032 for Shaw’s use in 1941, 3030 was entered by Lou Moore Inc for Mauri Rose, and 3031 by Elgin Piston Pins for Duke Nalon, and the subsequent US histories of all three cars has been discussed elsewehere on this forum

Mainly in this thread, I think:

Wilbur Shaw's Maserati

[arttidesco]

Thanks Alan David and Tim, first time I have come across a Maserati of this age

[VWV]

In the Jan/Feb 2013 issue of Vintage Motorsport magazine there is an excellent indepth Michael T Lynch article on these Maserati's.


Also here is another look at these beautiful cars http://www.velocetod...ndy-interludes/

Edited by VWV, 12 April 2013 - 20:54.

[Alan Cox]

Both cars were entered in the 1940 Indianapolis 500 by Ecurie Lucy O’Reilly Schell, 3030 for Dreyfus and 3031 for Lebègue, though only the latter car started, shared by both drivers

http://www.maserati-...i50/500-09a.jpg
#3031 at Indianapolis in 1940
http://www.maserati-...i50/500-10a.jpg
Emil Andres in 1946

Edited by Alan Cox, 12 April 2013 - 20:12.

[Ray Bell]

If it's at the Indy Museum, how come I don't have a picture of it?

I took pics of every car...

[D-Type]

If it's at the Indy Museum, how come I don't have a picture of it?

I took pics of every car...

Perhaps it was in the basement the day you went. I understand the Indianapolis museum rotate their exhibits.

[Vitesse2]

Perhaps it was in the basement the day you went. I understand the Indianapolis museum rotate their exhibits.

Or out on loan somewhere. It's certainly been to Goodwood in the past.

[Vitesse2]

They also appeared at the Swiss GP under the aegis of Ecurie Bleue, Dreyfus racing 3030 but Raph in 3031 being a non-starter

The name of Écurie Bleue was changed to Écurie Lucy O'Reilly Schell in December 1938. Very few people seem to have noticed though!

[D-Type]

Or out on loan somewhere. It's certainly been to Goodwood in the past.

I've seen a blue Schell or Écurie Bleue car at goodwood, but has the Boyle car also been there?

[Calhoun]

The Boyle Special is definitely in the Hall of Fame Museum at Indianapolis.

On the Thursday before the 2002 USGP at Indianapolis, Michael Schumacher drove it around the track. I was lucky (and fast enough) to make it back to the Museum as it was driven back into the lower level garage. What a treat to see and hear this historic car!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Alan Cox]

Or out on loan somewhere. It's certainly been to Goodwood in the past.

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.co...N06/4783069315/
http://www.ultimatec...ati-8CTF_1.html

[Collombin]

I've seen a blue Schell or Écurie Bleue car at goodwood, but has the Boyle car also been there?

It was certainly there in 2010 as it was my favourite exhibit that year.

The best looking Indy winner ever? And certainly one with some illustrious pilots in its day (and beyond it).

[David M. Kane]

Michal Schumacher did some demo laps at the USGP a few years ago. It looked and sounded great!

[Magoo]

In the Jan/Feb 2013 issue of Vintage Motorsport magazine there is an excellent indepth Michael T Lynch article on these Maserati's.


Also here is another look at these beautiful cars http://www.velocetod...ndy-interludes/

Not to sharpshoot but strictly in the interest of good info...while the Veloce Today piece says that the 8CTF used mechanical brakes, in fact they are hydraulic. Those on the Boyle car 3032 are, at any rate, and I don't believe they have ever been altered.

[arttidesco]

They also appeared at the Swiss GP under the aegis of Ecurie Bleue, Dreyfus racing 3030 but Raph in 3031 being a non-starter

Both cars were entered in the 1940 Indianapolis 500 by Ecurie Lucy O’Reilly Schell, 3030 for Dreyfus and 3031 for Lebègue, though only the latter car started, shared by both drivers

Gosh ! if I thought the 1913 Peugeot was difficult it seems as nothing compared to 3030.

David could you clarify Dreyfus started the Swiss GP in 3030 ?

Also in this linked post MF has René Le Begue/René Dreyfus sharing the #49 3030 at Indy while the #22 3031 entered for Drefus did not start ?

Finally can anyone comment on the circumstances that led to Dreyfus taking over the #49 from Le Beugue ?

[Vitesse2]

Swiss GP: http://www.kolumbus....an/gp396.htm#22

The reports of that race are contradictory regarding Le Bègue, not helped by the fact that none of the usual British reporters were present. I've looked at French, German, Swiss and Italian reports as well and I'm none the wiser! Some suggest that he non-started, some that he retired: I tend towards it being a last-minute DNS rather than a DNF. Perhaps even pushed off the grid before the start?

Re Indianapolis: the team had misunderstood the Indy qualification rules and assumed that providing they achieved the required qualifying speed they would be allowed to start, not realising they could be bumped if somebody managed a faster time. They had also not realised that once they set a qualifying time they weren't allowed to go out again to beat it. After Dreyfus was bumped, Wilbur Shaw actually led a group of drivers who suggested that he should be allowed to start anyway, but IMS weren't going to bend their rules for a "furriner"!

Dreyfus accepted the decision and he and Le Bègue agreed to share the drive. As he wanted more practice and since his own car had been eliminated he had to go out in the one Le Bègue had qualified: he managed to improve his lap times by several seconds, but then the engine let go! They therefore had to take the engine out of Dreyfus' car and fit it in Le Bègue's.

[fbarrett]

Suppose most of you are aware of the book Umbrella Mike by Brock Yates. Here's a link to the Amazon listing: http://www.amazon.co...s=umbrella mike

Edited by fbarrett, 02 May 2013 - 23:08.

[arttidesco]

Swiss GP: http://www.kolumbus....an/gp396.htm#22

The reports of that race are contradictory regarding Le Bègue, not helped by the fact that none of the usual British reporters were present. I've looked at French, German, Swiss and Italian reports as well and I'm none the wiser! Some suggest that he non-started, some that he retired: I tend towards it being a last-minute DNS rather than a DNF. Perhaps even pushed off the grid before the start?

Re Indianapolis: the team had misunderstood the Indy qualification rules and assumed that providing they achieved the required qualifying speed they would be allowed to start, not realising they could be bumped if somebody managed a faster time. They had also not realised that once they set a qualifying time they weren't allowed to go out again to beat it. After Dreyfus was bumped, Wilbur Shaw actually led a group of drivers who suggested that he should be allowed to start anyway, but IMS weren't going to bend their rules for a "furriner"!

Dreyfus accepted the decision and he and Le Bègue agreed to share the drive. As he wanted more practice and since his own car had been eliminated he had to go out in the one Le Bègue had qualified: he managed to improve his lap times by several seconds, but then the engine let go! They therefore had to take the engine out of Dreyfus' car and fit it in Le Bègue's.

Most kind V2 I think I at least have the story of what happened to 3030 straight for 1940 and perhaps I'll leave it at that for the blog and point my readers to further light reading in the cabianca, fines, Gerr, O Volante, et al magnus opus if they want to know more

[arttidesco]

Thanks to VWV, Alan, V2, D-Type, EB, Frank, Michael Ferner, cabiana, Gerr and O Volante for their help with last weeks Maserati 8CTF #3030 blog

[David McKinney]

As my name is mentioned in the blog I would like to make clear that I would not have said "Rootes Type" for Roots-type, or Peitsch for Pietsch, or Lucille O'Reilly for Lucy O'Reilly Schell

[arttidesco]

As my name is mentioned in the blog I would like to make clear that I would not have said "Rootes Type" for Roots-type, or Peitsch for Pietsch, or Lucille O'Reilly for Lucy O'Reilly Schell

Thanks for the corrections David

[Graham Clayton]

An interesting article on the current state of the Boyle Racing workshop at 1701 Gent Ave:

 

http://www.indystar....-ruins/4144939/