94 replies to this topic

[BackOnTop]

Hey! Any folks in here who voted for Massa to keep the string going and thought Alonso was "feeling the pressure?" ANYBODY?? Given the poll numbers, I know some of ya gotta be out there, somewhere.

Hoping BOTH Felipe and Nando move forward in the race and one of them claims the victory, because that's what's most important, right? Beating the other drivers IN THE RACE (Teammate Included!).

In a poll... there is always options that are Positive-Negative and people vote according to their feelings about that situation.

It's laughable that you need to take potshots at active members who decided to go with their gut feelings. It's a sport, where one driver will have to lose... so chill out. It could have been easily you who got laughed at by 0.3 of a seconds.

Well done Hamilton-Kimi-Alo-Ros & Massa... and thanks everyone who gave their vote and views. Time to gear up for an exciting race tomorrow.

Edited by BackOnTop, 13 April 2013 - 08:24.

[as65p]

Ahh, what a let-down. Two days building up the suspense in expectation of the historic event of Massa out-qualifying Alonso 5 times in a row, and now this.

[mnmracer]

Nobody interested in his record of being the Ferrari driver with more starts without a win and how far is going to expand it.

Maybe because nobody's brought it up?
In terms of races, Massa hold this record now.
In terms of seasons, he's about level with Michelle Alboreto (3.5 years; late 1986 to end of 1989), but both behind Jean Alesi (4.5 years; 1991 to half 1995).

[Acathla]

Hey look, Fernando outqualified Massa for the umpteenth time and no one is here. The hating is getting worser and worse. It's a shame.

[Mackey]

I hope you didn´t bet on it guys ;)

[Grundle]

Hey look, Fernando outqualified Massa for the umpteenth time and no one is here. The hating is getting worser and worse. It's a shame.

Tbh its partly FAs' fault. Keeps banging on about how bad his car is. People get bored of this. Just now he said there is a "big gap" to catch up. Yawn.

[SPBHM]

I think it was a good performance again by Massa, obviously not as good as Alonso, but other drivers underperformed a lot more compared to their teammates,

maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember China being a good track for Massa, even when he was winning races.

[fabr68]

This poll

Some people act like anyone (specially Alonso) ever gets outqualified by Massa is because Alonso lost his driving abilities.

Those are the same people who write essays of excuses to explain how Raikkonen got his ass handed to him in 2008.

Massa is the same good driver he is always been. The 2010, 2011 and even 2012 Ferrari cars have not been the same as the 2006, 2007, 2008 and now 2013. That is the whole explanation, nothing more.

[Acathla]

If you'd compare last years Ferrari with the Red Bulls and the Macs the car was bad. Last quarter of the season it started to be better, but not on par with the rest. I wouldn't call that boring, but realistic.

[Mackey]

Tbh its partly FAs' fault. Keeps banging on about how bad his car is. People get bored of this. Just now he said there is a "big gap" to catch up. Yawn.

"I think the gap is quite big still and we don’t have that speed right now. So, second is not bad, I think it’s the best that I’ve been with the team ever. Not too bad, but of course you’d rather be in first place but I guess we don’t have the speed. I think we are missing downforce in the middle sector a bit, but we’ll see what we can do tomorrow."

That wasn´t said by Alonso and I don´t see anyone bashing Kimi for saying it. And he qualifyed less than 3 tenths off pole.

[Astro]

The poll shows the great majority believes we are seeing the same Massa of 2008 (I guess that is what having the "mojo back" means), which may turn out to be quite useful in discarding excuses .

[Seanspeed]

Tbh its partly FAs' fault. Keeps banging on about how bad his car is. People get bored of this. Just now he said there is a "big gap" to catch up. Yawn.

And people still find a way to bash. Pathetic.

[discover23]

I think it was a good performance again by Massa, obviously not as good as Alonso, but other drivers underperformed a lot more compared to their teammates,

maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember China being a good track for Massa, even when he was winning races.

Watch 2009

[ryan86]

China 2011 was actually one of the races that people asked "Felipe back to his best?". I can't remember if Alonso had a problem, but Alonso had a lonely day off the pace whilst Massa fought in a group of 6 for the podium places.

[molive]

Felipe seemed to be struggling in the 3rd sector only, enough to be behind Alonso for the first time this year.

But, who cares? Qualifying on not important anymo, right?

[Flyhigh]

This poll

Some people act like anyone (specially Alonso) ever gets outqualified by Massa is because Alonso lost his driving abilities.

Those are the same people who write essays of excuses to explain how Raikkonen got his ass handed to him in 2008.

Massa is the same good driver he is always been. The 2010, 2011 and even 2012 Ferrari cars have not been the same as the 2006, 2007, 2008 and now 2013. That is the whole explanation, nothing more.

Nah, I agree with you that Massa is still the same good driver he has been, but you are understating the issues he had over the last years. It was not just a slower car, but it also didn't fit into his style and his confidence as a driver was undermined. It was a combination of factors. If it was just the car being slower overall, he should be with Alonso as he is doing now, and he is just on another level compared to these latest years.

Edited by Flyhigh, 13 April 2013 - 21:39.

[Skinnyguy]

Massa might be back to his best but this F1 won´t allow him to shine as he used to. He can qualify as good as he want but now, if he´s slower than anyone, he´ll end behind him. Even if he is back to his best days he´s not champiosnhip material anymore, because this F1 doesn´t reward his skillset as much as before.

And anyone suggesting 2010-2011-first 2/3 of 2012 Massa was in the same shape than before should clearly go bed and hope to be more lucid tomorrow. The guy used to be a match for Hamilton, Räikkönen and Alonso in similar cars, and in that period any of these 3 could whip the floor with him by a huge margin even with worse machinery.

[Kingshark]

This poll

Some people act like anyone (specially Alonso) ever gets outqualified by Massa is because Alonso lost his driving abilities.

Those are the same people who write essays of excuses to explain how Raikkonen got his ass handed to him in 2008.

Massa is the same good driver he is always been. The 2010, 2011 and even 2012 Ferrari cars have not been the same as the 2006, 2007, 2008 and now 2013. That is the whole explanation, nothing more.

So true!

Edited by Kingshark, 13 April 2013 - 22:23.

[PoleMan]

In a poll... there is always options that are Positive-Negative and people vote according to their feelings about that situation.

It's laughable that you need to take potshots at active members who decided to go with their gut feelings. It's a sport, where one driver will have to lose... so chill out. It could have been easily you who got laughed at by 0.3 of a seconds.

Well done Hamilton-Kimi-Alo-Ros & Massa... and thanks everyone who gave their vote and views. Time to gear up for an exciting race tomorrow.

I'm quite relaxed, thank you.

I'm a Fernando fan, but quite happy to see either of Ferrari's drivers performing well. It's great to see Felipe more competitive, as it should boost the WCC chances. I'd add that given your highstrung, emotional response to some lighthearted ribbing, perhaps it's your own blood pressure that needs managing.

Edited by PoleMan, 13 April 2013 - 22:50.

[yoyogetfunky]

Ahh, what a let-down. Two days building up the suspense in expectation of the historic event of Massa out-qualifying Alonso 5 times in a row, and now this.

This poll

Some people act like anyone (specially Alonso) ever gets outqualified by Massa is because Alonso lost his driving abilities.

Those are the same people who write essays of excuses to explain how Raikkonen got his ass handed to him in 2008.

Massa is the same good driver he is always been. The 2010, 2011 and even 2012 Ferrari cars have not been the same as the 2006, 2007, 2008 and now 2013. That is the whole explanation, nothing more.

Massa sucked in the 13 Aussie race, and he sucked in the 13 Malaysia race. Id say Massa being the driver pre Hungary crash is a bit premature ;)

[aditya-now]

Ahh, what a let-down. Two days building up the suspense in expectation of the historic event of Massa out-qualifying Alonso 5 times in a row, and now this.

[Disgrace]

Answers: out-qualified by 0.150 seconds and out-raced by 40 seconds.

[topical]

Answers: out-qualified by 0.150 seconds and out-raced by 40 seconds.

In fairness, Massa got a raw deal with the first pit stop getting stuck in traffic. Still, despite that Alonso once again showed today why he is the main man at Ferrari and Massa surely should have managed better than distant 6th place with the car Ferrari had this weekend.

[garoidb]

In fairness, Massa got a raw deal with the first pit stop getting stuck in traffic. Still, despite that Alonso once again showed today why he is the main man at Ferrari and Massa surely should have managed better than distant 6th place with the car Ferrari had this weekend.

It might have been better to stack the two pitstops, but hindsight is 20:20. That would have produced outcry on this forum. The other alternative was to run two different strategies, but there would also be recriminations about that if Alonso benefitted. Two cars on the same strategy when pitstops are required after a handful of laps is always going to disadvantage one of the drivers (normally, as in this case, the one running behind).

Unfortunately, despite earlier optimism on my part, it is starting to seem possible that Massa will have another anonymous season.

[yoyogetfunky]

In fairness, Massa got a raw deal with the first pit stop getting stuck in traffic. Still, despite that Alonso once again showed today why he is the main man at Ferrari and Massa surely should have managed better than distant 6th place with the car Ferrari had this weekend.

Alonso got stuck behind Massa at Melbourne, yet finished 21 seconds ahead of him in P2. If you look at that race and this race combined, Massa is over a minute behind Alonso. Massa better polish Alonso's boots extra nice tonight for him being so nice to defend Felipe in Di Montezemolo's office. In fact the only reason why Massa is still at Ferrari, is because the bosses want to do Alonso a favor. As a racer, he is a total and utter failure.

[Acathla]

Once again,

[encircled]

40s is too much. Traffic may have contributed to it but still.

[Konsta]

40s is too much. Traffic may have contributed to it but still.

Funny how FA ws 40s ahead of Flippy just like Kimi was of RG or JB of SP.

Some are good and some very very good. Flippy unfortunately showed today that as a RACER he is crappy.

[Hanzo]

In fact the only reason why Massa is still at Ferrari, is because the bosses want to do Alonso a favor.

That it is not true... (probably you were half joking... ) One of the reasons Massa is staying is because Alonso and the team listen carefully and trust what Massa says about the car regarding set ups, updates, etc... on fridays and saturdays and probably it would not be easy to replace that experience that Massa has with the team and the cars.
And yes, his race performances are horrible most of the time.

[discover23]

Massa was stuck behind DiResta twice in the fastest car today. That ruined his race - he should have been able to do better.

[aray]

Massa outqualifying Alonso won't mean a s***...he is miles behind Alonso in racecraft...Alonso pounds lap after lap near perfection....Massa's pace fluctuate like yo yo even when he is in free air...but worst of it is he puts all his aggression towards Alonso and behaves like chicken with others....

Edited by aray, 14 April 2013 - 15:16.

[aditya-now]

It might have been better to stack the two pitstops, but hindsight is 20:20. That would have produced outcry on this forum.

Stacking the pit stops worked for Merc with Hamilton and Rosberg, so it would have been well worthwhile. But as you say....hindsight.

Unfortunately, despite earlier optimism on my part, it is starting to seem possible that Massa will have another anonymous season.

That's the main thing, however good Felipe might be on one lap speed, he does not capitalize in races. Any obstacles and he loses out. Bring in Jules Bianchi for 2014, enough is enough!

[yoyogetfunky]

That it is not true... (probably you were half joking... ) One of the reasons Massa is staying is because Alonso and the team listen carefully and trust what Massa says about the car regarding set ups, updates, etc... on fridays and saturdays and probably it would not be easy to replace that experience that Massa has with the team and the cars.
And yes, his race performances are horrible most of the time.

Actually, I wasnt joking. I cant think of any other reason to keep Massa than Alonso having a good understanding with him.

- If Massa is so important to trust what the car is doing how come that didnt translate back on the track, especially in Massa's own races?
- I think Hamilton showed you only need 2 or 3 races to bring a new driver up to speed to have him delivere results close to the other driver.

The one reason Irvine and Barrichello were hired, is because they could perhaps not follow Schumacher on sheer pace, they did bring home really good results, and took points of any rival. Massa hasnt been doing that for how long?

He was supposed to get another chance for 2013. Thus far, he sucked and under performed in all races sofar. So he outqualified Alonso, in 2 changeable condition qualify sessions, so what. He is a liability.

[garoidb]

Actually, I wasnt joking. I cant think of any other reason to keep Massa than Alonso having a good understanding with him.

- If Massa is so important to trust what the car is doing how come that didnt translate back on the track, especially in Massa's own races?
- I think Hamilton showed you only need 2 or 3 races to bring a new driver up to speed to have him delivere results close to the other driver.

The one reason Irvine and Barrichello were hired, is because they could perhaps not follow Schumacher on sheer pace, they did bring home really good results, and took points of any rival. Massa hasnt been doing that for how long?

He was supposed to get another chance for 2013. Thus far, he sucked and under performed in all races sofar. So he outqualified Alonso, in 2 changeable condition qualify sessions, so what. He is a liability.

I think you are being too harsh. There is a definite improvement in his qualifying performance. He really needs to deliver some good races soon before the points gap starts to open up.

[Konsta]

I think you are being too harsh. There is a definite improvement in his qualifying performance. He really needs to deliver some good races soon before the points gap starts to open up.

Being quick over single lap has rarely been Flippy's weakness. On terms of racecraft he is appalling - not just slightly less stellar than F1 A-listers but just awful.

[yoyogetfunky]

I think you are being too harsh. There is a definite improvement in his qualifying performance. He really needs to deliver some good races soon before the points gap starts to open up.

Im reading it back and I admit there are some harsh words but I dont think im that wrong. His qualifying wasnt that bad in 2012 either - often in the neighbourhood of Alonso - just the car was a lot slower. Alonso just manages to get a lot more from it. The bad car excuse is gone now, and immediatly you see Massa failing on initiative, imagination, determination where Alonso seizes any opportunnity.

Being quick over single lap has rarely been Flippy's weakness. On terms of racecraft he is appalling - not just slightly less stellar than F1 A-listers but just awful.

Yup, and hence my specualtion Massa was only retained because Alonso wanted it. They waited 14(!) races of total misery and failure in 2012 before the decided lets give him another chance. In any other team Massa wouldv been shown the door.

He said he sought psychological help, and renewed motivation, but even Felipe must admit he simply isnt the driver he once was. The rival teams with fast all round line up will be welcoming this difference of performance within Ferrari.

[garoidb]

Im reading it back and I admit there are some harsh words but I dont think im that wrong. His qualifying wasnt that bad in 2012 either - often in the neighbourhood of Alonso - just the car was a lot slower. Alonso just manages to get a lot more from it. The bad car excuse is gone now, and immediatly you see Massa failing on initiative, imagination, determination where Alonso seizes any opportunnity.

We are in the period of the season where Felipe is allowed to race for himself, and there have been some unlucky circumstances in the three races so far. One really good performance now would show that he can at least run at the front when things go his way. We have not seen that for too long. This time last year he was struggling so badly you knew there must be underlying reasons. This year, the car is good and he is qualifying well so what he can do now can be considered reflective of his real maximum level. Maybe he can do more in the next few races. I still think he might. It won't be long, though, before Ferrari start to think about nex season's driver line up.

[aditya-now]

Actually, I wasnt joking. I cant think of any other reason to keep Massa than Alonso having a good understanding with him.

Not totally correct.

Fernando frequently mentions now how much he would need Felipe "up there" - if Massa falls into his usual routine of 2010 - 2012 than that will be it.
Jules Bianchi I say!

[Kingshark]

Ahh, what a let-down. Two days building up the suspense in expectation of the historic event of Massa out-qualifying Alonso 5 times in a row, and now this.

Not just qualy, but the entire weekend, this sums up my feelings.

[yoyogetfunky]

Not totally correct.

Fernando frequently mentions now how much he would need Felipe "up there" - if Massa falls into his usual routine of 2010 - 2012 than that will be it.
Jules Bianchi I say!

True that, but Alonso being the politician that he is... Im sure he wants Massa up there, no doubt, but in the end he wants to be top dog with a teammate that doesnt buck too much when the updates are handed out.

Well see, so far after 3 races I think retaining Massa does more harm than good for Ferrari.

[ryan86]

Massa or Smedley, or even both them seem to lack something I feel when it comes to strategy. Admittedly Massa has said for whatever reason he struggled to get the tyres working or lasting today, but here and Australia he seems to constantly be on the back foot when it comes to strategy. I think he was the last driver or one of the last drivers to get their softs off at the start, and it felt he almost sleepwalked into that position.

[Seanspeed]

Massa or Smedley, or even both them seem to lack something I feel when it comes to strategy. Admittedly Massa has said for whatever reason he struggled to get the tyres working or lasting today, but here and Australia he seems to constantly be on the back foot when it comes to strategy. I think he was the last driver or one of the last drivers to get their softs off at the start, and it felt he almost sleepwalked into that position.

The thing with strategy is that its often good on-paper, but you need the driver to go out and execute it well. Two drivers on the same strategy could both end up with different results because one did a better job of pulling it off.

Massa got screwed with that first pitstop, there's no two ways about it. Not much could have been done to avoid it, honestly. But after that, there was nothing stopping Massa from getting back into that battle with Lewis, Kimi, Webber and Vettel. His strategy was ok, but Massa just didn't have the pace and the ability to overtake the necessary cars to join in the fight at the front.

Hopefully Flippy does better in Bahrain. He usually likes it there.

[MikeTekRacing]

The thing with strategy is that its often good on-paper, but you need the driver to go out and execute it well. Two drivers on the same strategy could both end up with different results because one did a better job of pulling it off.

Massa got screwed with that first pitstop, there's no two ways about it. Not much could have been done to avoid it, honestly. But after that, there was nothing stopping Massa from getting back into that battle with Lewis, Kimi, Webber and Vettel. His strategy was ok, but Massa just didn't have the pace and the ability to overtake the necessary cars to join in the fight at the front.

Hopefully Flippy does better in Bahrain. He usually likes it there.

fair analysis. massa himself admits he lacked pace later in the race.
there is no excuse around. alonso simply drove great again and massa was nowhere fading away in the race.

[yoyogetfunky]

The thing with strategy is that its often good on-paper, but you need the driver to go out and execute it well. Two drivers on the same strategy could both end up with different results because one did a better job of pulling it off.

Massa got screwed with that first pitstop, there's no two ways about it. Not much could have been done to avoid it, honestly. But after that, there was nothing stopping Massa from getting back into that battle with Lewis, Kimi, Webber and Vettel. His strategy was ok, but Massa just didn't have the pace and the ability to overtake the necessary cars to join in the fight at the front.

Hopefully Flippy does better in Bahrain. He usually likes it there.

Well said Seanspeed

[redbarron]

I think in the last couple of years we have seen the cream rise to the top in F1. The WDC's all seem to be that much better then the other drivers.