162 replies to this topic

[SenorSjon]

The in race penalty is about safety. The penalty points are about the driver’s attitude. You should never get penalty points for an innocent mistake.

 

It was behind the SC... 

[PayasYouRace]

It was behind the SC...

And? Doesn’t change a thing. Well, other than that it points to it more being an innocent mistake because he wouldn’t have been trying to maximise his speed in a competitive situation.

[PayasYouRace]

Norris got penalty points for speeding under the yellows, he didn't see the flags. Wasn't done on purpose, innocent mistake?

Wasn’t Norris penalised primarily because his throttle trace showed he’d made no effort to slow for the yellows?

I don’t think that applies to Lewis in the pit lane, where he seemed to immediately correct his error.

[Anderis]

It doesn’t take much to exceed the pit lane speed limit by 12 km/h in an F1 car if you’ve not activated the limiter and not realised. I don’t think that’s any more reckless than by 1 or 2. Penalty points would only make sense if the driver intentionally sped in the pits. That’s clearly not what happened to Lewis.

TBH, intentionally speeding in the pit lane should not yield penalty points but an immediate ban and not just for one race.

[PayasYouRace]

TBH, intentionally speeding in the pit lane should not yield penalty points but an immediate ban and not just for one race.

I wouldn’t argue with that.

[pdac]

The in race penalty is about safety. The penalty points are about the driver’s attitude. You should never get penalty points for an innocent mistake.

 

Whether something is an innocent mistake has to be judged by someone. There will always be cases where one person judges the situation differently to another. Therefore, for consistency, it's better just to remove the judgement aspect and just use measurement as the deciding factor.

[Deeq]

When the stewards fire up a game on Mario Party, uses the Triple Dice and get the same number on all three!

At least that's how it feels at times.

Hence the infamous Random Penalty Generator™

[PayasYouRace]

Whether something is an innocent mistake has to be judged by someone. There will always be cases where one person judges the situation differently to another. Therefore, for consistency, it's better just to remove the judgement aspect and just use measurement as the deciding factor.

 

That might work for sporting issues, but it fails on disciplinary matters.

 

Judging someone's actions to be an error, a mistake, reckless or malicious isn't really that hard, especially when you have access to all the data of their actions.

[Deeq]

The in race penalty is about safety. The penalty points are about the driver’s attitude. You should never get penalty points for an innocent mistake.

"None" speeds the pit-lane "intentionaly", its all innocent mistakes that could have catastrophic consequences.
Hence differenciation of little incident mistake from big innocent mistake (misjudgament).
The points are to make them extra causious next time & not risk repeatin the.. innocent mistake.

Edited by Deeq, 10 December 2024 - 20:54.

[PayasYouRace]

"None" speeds the pit-lane "intentionaly", its all innocent mistakes that could have catastrophic consequences.
Hence differenciation of little incident mistake from big innocent mistake (misjudgament).
The points are to make them extra causious next time & not risk repeatin the.. innocent mistake.

 

There are levels though.

 

For example. Thinking you pressed the button but you didn't, or it didn't work, so you speed but immediately correct it. That's an error. That doesn't require any further action beyond the in-race penalty because there's no bad behaviour to correct.

 

Most drivers get pinged because they've braked too late on entry. That's a mistake. The action was intentional but it was a misjudgement. That might warrant something to make them extra cautious in future.

 

Thankfully few drivers if any speed intentionally in F1.

[Bleu]

I recall two cases where driver had massive speeding when entering to the pits to retire from the race. Both are more than 20 years old though, Coulthard in Canada 2001 and Villeneuve in Hungary 1999.

[SenorSjon]

And? Doesn’t change a thing. Well, other than that it points to it more being an innocent mistake because he wouldn’t have been trying to maximise his speed in a competitive situation.

 

Actually it does. In regular race conditions, teams are on edge for cars and the pitlane isn't too busy with cars. During the SC, all cars were entering the pitlane. A silly mistake with overreacting to overspeeding could turn into a small misheap with all the cars around.

[pdac]

That might work for sporting issues, but it fails on disciplinary matters.

 

Judging someone's actions to be an error, a mistake, reckless or malicious isn't really that hard, especially when you have access to all the data of their actions.

 

Seems to work fine for the ordinary Joe in the street who is unfortunate enough to be photographed by a speed camera whilst out for a spin. You're immediately judged to be at fault. The camera is considered the final say (unless you appeal and question its accuracy).