29 replies to this topic

[JdB]

Hey everyone! Years ago i had a Guillemot FErrari FFB Wheel, which i literally drove to pieces. After that one, i had a few cheap wheels, but they just couldn't satisfy me Now i decided it's time for a decent wheel, and i narrowed the options down to 2 : the Logitech and the Thrustmaster. The price doesn't really bother me, as they're both expensive. I heard great stories about the Thrustmaster, but the G27 has a separate manual gearbox, and now i'm stuck.
Do any of you have experience with either, or both wheels? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

thanks, Jeroen

[The Kanisteri]

Not concidered any Fanatec wheels? Lot of accessories to build your system, gearsticks and such. Works well with PC, XBox360 and PS3.

[olliek88]

Can't help you too much with the comparison but i've had a G27 for around 2ish year now and it hasn't missed a beat, i pretty much exclusively play on the PC and its done the job for me but i really like the look of the the Fanatec clubsport with the Formula rim and clubsport pedals but its a lot of money for the whole package, £500 odd for something and i'm not sure of the gains, i'd love someones opinion on the fanatec to be honest.. hint hint.

[JdB]

Not concidered any Fanatec wheels? Lot of accessories to build your system, gearsticks and such. Works well with PC, XBox360 and PS3.

I read a review about the Fanatec wheel, but that person had trouble with the software, and Fanatec being a "small" company, had difficulties providing tech support. It's not that i'm stupid, but i just don't have the patience to keep on fiddling with it untill it's working, by then i'll probably have hrown it out of the window ... But if somone can tell me different, i'll be more than happy to consider that one as well ....

Thanks.

gr.Jeroen

[BCM]

I've had a Fanatec Clubsport base and Formula rim for a month or so now. I use it pretty much just for iRacing. I had been using a G27 for a few years. The FFB from the Clubsport is much much smoother than the G27. Has more programmable buttons than a G27 and there is a third party program called Fanaleds that allows you to setup the LCD on the wheel to show various parameters whilst you are driving in a number of sims. The wheel base allows you to swap out different wheels. There is a touring car wheel available as del as the formula one I have. They use quick releases like real race car wheels to take them on and off the base. You can connect the wheel base to G27 pedals which is how I have it setup or you can use Fanatec ones. Fanatec are also about to release separate shifters that will hook to the base. Not really something I'm interested in as I'm happy just using the pedals, but some people like the realism of a separate shifter.

I can't comment on the reliability or support at the moment as I've only had it a month and I haven't had any issues. However at this stage I'm more than happy with the purchase and I'd buy it again given if I was looking for a new wheel.

[superdelphinus]

the thrustmaster is in a different league to the g27. I have a fanatec csr which I guess sits somewhere between the two, both in terms of cost and performance

[JdB]

I finally got the Thrustmaster, and it blew me away!! I can really recommend it, although it's so powerfull i can't play it on max
I'm still thinking about buying the separate shifter as well ....

Anyone any experiences with it?

grtz.Jeroen

[jaisli]

I finally got the Thrustmaster, and it blew me away!! I can really recommend it, although it's so powerfull i can't play it on max
I'm still thinking about buying the separate shifter as well ....

Anyone any experiences with it?

grtz.Jeroen

I'm sorry that I only saw this thread today. I have both a G27 and a Thrustmaster T500Rs and have used both extensively. Although since I've had the T500 (for about 18 months), the G27 has been sitting in the box and that about sums up the difference between the two quite neatly. Since you already have the T500 I don't really need to go on about it, but simply put, with a few minor nits, it's superior to the G27 in just about every way and makes the G27 seem like a toy in comparison.

I have the h-pattern shifter and will only say that it's a very well built, solid piece of kit. If it makes any sense, the shifter actually seems much more solid than the wheel itself does. It's fabulous. I've driven real cars that didn't feel as good, smooth and solid shifting as that thing does. Trust me, you'll love it. That said, there are few games out there that really let you take advantage of it (unless you use it as a sequential shifter). In iRacing, most of the cars use a sequential box. But it works well with the cars that allow an h-pattern. And it works with the PS3 as well (GT5/GT6).

Edited by jaisli, 03 July 2013 - 16:35.

[Option1]

jaisli, taking into account your avatar, do you run the wheel on a Mac?

 

Neil

[Beernathan]

I've had a G27 for a couple of years. Super frustrated as it's developed an issue (which seems quite common) where it drags the brake, and the accelerator doesn't always go to full throttle. Logitech have said they won't address as it's out of warranty.

 

Makes it impossible to play F1 2012 - brake drag kills DRS all the time!

[Meanie]

I've had a G27 for a couple of years. Super frustrated as it's developed an issue (which seems quite common) where it drags the brake, and the accelerator doesn't always go to full throttle. Logitech have said they won't address as it's out of warranty.

 

Makes it impossible to play F1 2012 - brake drag kills DRS all the time!

 

 

This should solve your problem, really:

 

http://www.gtplanet....ad.php?t=247510

 

If you're too lazy or worried about the whole procedure, just spraying the contact cleaner inside the pot (and moving the arms a couple of times between the sprays - by pressing the pedals all the way down) should help a lot for at least some weeks.

The full cleaning described on the link I've posted, will last you a lot longer without issues.

 

Good luck.

[jaisli]

jaisli, taking into account your avatar, do you run the wheel on a Mac?

 

Neil

Sorry, I really should check threads I post in more often.  

 

No, I think the Mac version of iRacing has only been avaialble for a little over a month.  And TBH, it's been close to 9 months I last ran a race in iRacing.  I just haven't had the time.  I actually have a Core i7 PC I bought just for sim racing.  It's in my basement hooked up to a plasma TV and it sits next to the PS3.  Convenient.  It's about 2 years old and the graphics card was only mid range when I bought it.  But it's still enough that I can run with everything set to the highest level (single screen) and still manage about 85 FPS.

 

I did download iRacing on my Mac Pro.  But it's now about 4 years old and a bit long in the tooth.  One of these days I will hook my wheel up just to see how it runs.

Edited by jaisli, 04 October 2013 - 21:02.

[Option1]

Thanks for the eventual reply, jaisli.  I'm grateful as late is infinitely better than never. 

 

Let us know how you go when you do hook up the wheel to the Mac.  It's amazing how little info I can find on plugging any of the various wheel brands into OSX.  And I'm too cheap, and game too little, to be bothered getting a Windows system just for that.

 

Neil

[jaisli]

When I bought the PS3, (2008) I was still using a G5 Mac and didn't have the option to run Windows through Bootcamp.  So I was sitting on the fence whether to buy a PS3 or Xbox or PC.  But it was in the heart of the recession and the PS3 won out.  After 3 years of SSV8, SSV8NC, NFS:Shift, Ferrari Challenge, GT5:P, Supercar Challenge and GT5, I kind of gave up on PS3 gaming.  Too many kids, clowns and argy-bargy going on for my taste.  Over time, I met a lot of great folks on the PSN who were less gamers and more motorsports enthusiasts at heart, and enjoyed the idea of vicariously being able to throw a car around a track for a tiny fraction of the cost of doing it in the real world.  So I had a very full friend list with like minded people and held a lot of private events.  But I eventually grew tired of the poor tire modeling, the overblown slip stream and the constant connection problems that the PS3 and PSN's P2P connection model suffered. 

 

That's when I bought the PC.  I went through Rfactor, Race 07 / GTR Evo, tried out Netkar and LFS, and eventually settled on iRacing.  I was pretty active for about a year and it was everything I wanted it to be.  In brief, a much more accurate, much more serious simulation and closer to the real thing than any console racer offered.  But I suppose it was a case of being careful what you wish for.  Between my job and family commitments, I barely had time to run a race in iRacing, let alone find the time to practice, set up the car, run qualifying, etc.  And Then I'd finally run a race and there wouldn't be enough people to make it go official.  Or there'd be just enough for a split and I'd usually end up the slowest guy in the "fast group" and have my ass handed to me, running around the back of the field for the entire race.  Or there'd be an early pile up and the race would be over and I just didn't have enough time to stick around for the next round. 

 

I think my account is good for another 4-5 months but I'm not sure if I'm going to renew unless my situation changes and I'm able to get some practice time in.  iRacing is more a 'hobby' than a 'game' and you really need to keep at it if you want to be any good at it.  I intend to pick up GT6 in Demember but that's really a bit of a double edged sword.  Joining public lobbies in console land is like a trip to kindergarten.  I just can't be bothered.  Yeah sure, you'd run into some dingbats in iRacing too but they were usually in the minority.  But if the A.I. is just as poor in GT6 as it was in GT5, I can barely be bothered. 

 

In that sense, I probably haven't gotten my monies worth out of the PC.  Does anybody ever?  And when iRacing goes full 64 bit (probably in another year), I doubt my current graphic card can handle it.  And I'd probably have to upgrade my power supply for a decent graphics card.  Always throwing more money at it--that's the PC dilema which I was trying to avoid when I bought the PS3.  That said, if you have a Mac and an iRacing account, I'm sure the same wheels are supported.  So I can tell you at very least, the Thrustmaster T500, Logitech G25/G27 and DFGT should work fine. 

[Option1]

Cool.  Thanks again.

 

Neil

[Zoetrope]

I am about to buy my first wheel ever and already want to start from the top shelf. Does anyone know if there are some plans for a new high-end wheel coming in the nearest future? Or are am I stuck with the choice between T500/G27/CSR?

Also, I would like the most realistic force feedback and pedal resistance as possible, but at the same I know due to my time limitations I will probably play a mix of real sim and arcade games. By no means I am aiming to become a true sim racer - I will surely try out real sims, but I guess I will spend most of my time in games like Forza, Assetto Corsa, F1 2015 maybe even totally arcade games like The Crew. Taking this into consideration, is T500 really worth the money or is it a bit like buying a sports car that you will never take to a racing circuit?

I set myself the lowest benchmark as a G27 and will not satisfy with lower quality, but I am afraid going anything above this price tag might be a waste of money. Any tips?

[ardbeg]

I can not advice you to get that wheel or the other, but I can say that after you tried a pressure sensitive brake pedal you will never go back. With it, you suddenly  approach corners with a familiar feeling which gives you plenty confidence. I doubt you would take your family car out for a spin around the city if it had the (for sim gear) traditional distance sensor. Muscle memory. You press hard if you want to stop quickly. It's in your backbone.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Just get the cheapest gamepad you can find. You'll be fine.

[Zoetrope]

I can not advice you to get that wheel or the other, but I can say that after you tried a pressure sensitive brake pedal you will never go back. With it, you suddenly  approach corners with a familiar feeling which gives you plenty confidence. I doubt you would take your family car out for a spin around the city if it had the (for sim gear) traditional distance sensor. Muscle memory. You press hard if you want to stop quickly. It's in your backbone.

 

Are you referring to load-cell pedals? Can't afford those sadly. Or is either of G27/T500 featured with pressure sensitive brakes?

 

Just get the cheapest gamepad you can find. You'll be fine.

 

I already got one and I am not fine  It's alright for single seaters, where the steering response is great, but totally useless in road cars or even protoypes.

Edited by Zoetrope, 27 December 2014 - 09:53.

[ardbeg]

Are you referring to load-cell pedals? Can't afford those sadly. Or is either of G27/T500 featured with pressure sensitive brakes?

 

Yes, pressure sensor whatever they call them. I do not know if any of the wheels above have it, I just know that the pressure sensitive brake, more than anything else, will make your driving experience more realistic and enjoyable. The fact that there exists brake pedals without pressure sensors are an insult to everyone that has ever driven a real vehicle. "Here is a tight corner, I must press the brake 12mm deeper..." is not really anything you should ever need to learn.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

I'm in complete agreement with ardbeg. I retired my G25 with honors, it having served without any problems for many years. But once you try a brake pedal that works on pressure insted of distance travelled, as the saying goes "once you try it you won't go back".

 

But be warned that they do break after hard use. Always keep a spare load cell in reserve because they break. That is because the brakes work by bending the load cell, and that kind of stress is the kind that does break metal.

 

 

But the extra cost and benefits far outweigh having a brake with a pot. The day I got mine my lap times immediately stabilized, and my braking finally became consistant. And once I got consistent, I could move my braking points to the minimum, because each and every time I reached that braking point, it worked exactly as I wanted. When I was using my G25 pedals, more often than not I would either overshoot or undershoot my arrival at the corner. It was mostly a foot here or there, but when you overshoot a corner by just one foot, you know you could have gone faster through that sector.

 

One more thing to consider is the mass of the wheel. I have the Clubsport BMW M3 wheel, and it feels and looks cool. All those buttons really make life easier too. But it's heavy and thus slower to turn. And right now I do notice that, and plan on getting the much smaller and lighter Formula rim. That is because right now I'm doing a lot of formula racing, and especially in circumstances when I have to make that quick turn-in for some corners, I really notice that I'm not able to get it going as quick as I desire. I used to think that different wheels were more of an ego and appearance thing, but I've done a 180 and now realize that for each type of class, there is a wheel that fits the requirement.

 

Force feedback: I used to do a lot of GT3 racing and had the FF cranked up to the max. It really feels cool and adds to the immersion. But the poop is that most true aliens run very low FF settings, they rely on other cues to understand what the car is doing. Remember, there is lag in force feedback. Something to consider.

Edited by BlinkyMcSquinty, 06 January 2015 - 16:12.

[gilez]

I own a Thrustmaster T500RS and I am very satisfied. It is a big wheel with big solid pedals that you can invert. Build quality is good. I play AC and the force feedback is very detailed and quite strong.

The brake pedal does not have a load cell sensor, and that is the only shortcoming of this wheel. In the box you are provided with a "real braking" kit which reduces the pedal travel with a metal plate and adds a spring and rubber for increased hardness. After trying without it, I installed it and I think it works quite well.The sensor itself is extremely accurate so even reducing the travel it detects any minimum movement, and basically once you "stop" the travel with that kit you have the same functionality of a load cell sensor. The only thing you have to be careful of is fully pressing your brake pedal before starting to race, so that the sensor memorizes its "100% brake" position.

 

Blinky is right though and I still think i will look for a load cell sensor kit for the brake pedal sooner or later because i think it will make it even more accurate, even if marginally so. 

Edited by gilez, 05 January 2015 - 05:26.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

gilez, my philosophy is that equipment makes you slower. OK, let me refine this: 99.9% of speed is the driver, but if you don't have the hardware that WORKS FOR YOU, then you can never reach your full potential. Some of the genuine aliens out there race with a stock G25/27 and stock pedals. Heck, Michael Conti won the iRacing 2014 NASCAR title with a stock G27 and pedals.

 

The thing is, if you can get the kind of performance you desire with whatever you run, then it works. But as in the example of brakes, if you can't present the car to the corner apex at exactly the speed and location you want, then after examining yourself, the hardware becomes suspect. That was what happened to me. I could never be consistent in my braking, I tried so many methods and stuff it was crazy. I would practice my braking a LOT. Over a hundred laps at Indy (because of the long straights) in a Miata, braking at the same speed and location, but it just would not be consistent. Replays, studying others, studying telemetry, WHY ME GOD? Finally, the only answer was that I sucked with a pot driven brake.

 

So whether it's a gamepad or cheap wheel or something exotic, as long as the car is doing exactly what you want, why change? For a lot of people (myself included) those fancy and expensive wheels are purchased mainly because they are cool and shiny new toys. Because they are of higher quality, it's rare you go backwards. But they are not a guarantee you will go forwards either. It's not that higher end equipment makes you faster but that it resolves a problem the previous equipment had.

 

Cheap equipment is just garbage for the serious sim racer, that kind of stuff may be OK for casual gaming just for fun. But there is a very good reason why the G27 and T500 fall into a special category. That is because they are the lowest-priced equipment that does not have major faults, and can take a racer to wins.

[goingthedistance]

I use the G27 wheel with the Fanatec Clubsport pedals. Highly recommend the combination (only for PC). 

[Cobra]

Looking to move on from a G27 to either a Fanatec or Thrustmaster. Or, is there another new sim wheel thats gonna set the standard on the horizon? The Logitech's been solid but doesn't FEEL solid. Used it primarily for GTL and rfactor. 

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

Looking to move on from a G27 to either a Fanatec or Thrustmaster. Or, is there another new sim wheel thats gonna set the standard on the horizon? The Logitech's been solid but doesn't FEEL solid. Used it primarily for GTL and rfactor. 

 

There are different levels of wheels, based of course, on cost. There are different levels, from crapola to basic with maybe force feedback and potentiometer sensors, to feedback and contactless sensors, to higher grade with belt drive, and finally, the new technology of direct drive DC motors.

 

But the hot item right now is the Accuforce Pro Sim Steering System. The reviews have been over the top, it appears to be amazing not only in reliability, sensitivity, but also tuneability. Here is one review. Almost two grand, but true quality doesn't come cheap. This is a VERY serious piece of gear, not a toy. Enough torque to break your wrists, 4500 degrees of rotation, configured for 900 degrees by default, quick-disconnect wheel, lots more.

 

http://simxperience....cuforcepro.aspx

 

Once you get past the G27 or T500, costs climb fast because you are now going into the land of very serious stuff. I have the next step up, the Fanatec Clubsport base, pedals, and wheel. Total cost over $1,100. The wheel is quick-disconnect, and Fanatec has expanded their line by adding lots of different wheel types. http://www.fanatec.c...steering-wheels

 

[ardbeg]

Don't you think the "next step up" would be the GT2 wheel?
http://www.fanatec.c...2-wheel-us.html
 

Then you end up at $499 with the Clubsport pedals.

I have not tried the Thrustmaster wheel though, maybe it is on par with the GT2.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

The GT2 wheel is now four years old, and that can be interpreted as a good or bad thing. It's a proven wheel, and it's longevity is proof that it is a quality wheel. The down side is that something newer and better may pop up on the horizon. It is the best cross platform wheel, good for PC, Playstation3, and XBox 360. But as far as I know, it won't work for the XBox 1. So please do your homework to make sure it is compatible for your intended platform(s).

 

There are a lot of very good wheels within the 300 to 500 dollar range, all I can suggest is to do the homework, check them all out, and then have fun. There are lots of reviews on all wheels on Youtube and other places, so the information and opinions are out there. One good review is this:

 

I have ignored the Thrustmaster products because I have not had one for almost twenty years. But trust me, there is a legion of fans who love Thrustmaster. So don't ignore them, there are very good reasons why they have so many loyal fans.

 

I have a good friend who bought a GT2 about a year ago, he knows his stuff (he's a race engineer in some team) and does very well in his sim racing. Like it's bigger brothers, the GT2 has belt drive, and the Fanatec tuning function. You can tune some wheel characteristics on the fly. What that means is that I can adjust my force feedback while in a game, for example.

[ardbeg]

I have the GT2, a good wheel, I was just reacting on your "next step up", it seemed to me that yo took two steps at once there
But as I said, I never tried the Thrustmaster so I can not really say if the GT2 is better. Maybe it's worse, so maybe your step is correct

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

It was a birthday surprise. I went down to the local establishment that sold Fanatec products to buy the Clubsport pedals, and the wife surprised me by adding the base and wheel. How could I say no?  lol

 

This short-circuited my usual upgrade process. What I usually do is identify exactly what I desire in performance, what the shortcomings of my present system are, do a LOT of homework, then select the new piece of kit based on eliminating my complaints. I was perfectly happy with my G25 wheel, it was the pedals I identified as the next step in improving. That is what I recommend to everyone, not just go out and spend hard-earned cash because someone says "ohhh, look at this new wheel, it's so cool". Instead, and because you are going to spend a lot of money, do the research. With the internet, there is no reason not to.