69 replies to this topic

[TheThirdTenor1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22427945

I have not had a chance to watch the video since i'm at work. However my thoughts on the written part:

- It seems that Webber trusts Button and Alonso the most in wheel to wheel combat. I think both are very fair and clean racers and will do what is necessary to avoid a collison even if it means losing a place.

- Did not know about Alonso's engine problem in San Marino. Makes that victory all the more impressive.

- Alonso said "The car felt good" (not exactly downplaying the car, as some want us to believe) about his Malaysia victory. I remember he also said something similar after the wet practice session in Melbourne. I think the rain masked some of the bad characteristics in the early F2012.

- Didn't the brake pedals got snapped in Brazil 2003 and Valencia 2010.

Edited by TheThirdTenor1, 09 May 2013 - 11:03.

[Tonka]

Webber might trust a couple of other drivers, but I wonder just how many trust him ?

I know one German driver for starters.

[SpaMaster]

Webber might trust a couple of other drivers, but I wonder just how many trust him ?

Exactly my thought when I read that statement.

[OvDrone]

O for goodness sake dudes, Mark is one of the cleanest racers out there right now. I'd put him in the bracket with Kimi, JB and Fred. Eau Rouge '11, enough said.

[Tonka]

O for goodness sake dudes, Mark is one of the cleanest racers out there right now. I'd put him in the bracket with Kimi, JB and Fred. Eau Rouge '11, enough said.

Did you see what he did to Jean-Eric Vergne in China only a few weeks ago?

[Sin]

they interview each other again? o.O..... I'm starting to think they all just playing a show to make more people watch like playing the cards... Webber & Alonso vs. Vettel & Raikönnen it's like Mortal Kombat just without fatalities

[SpaMaster]

O for goodness sake dudes, Mark is one of the cleanest racers out there right now. I'd put him in the bracket with Kimi, JB and Fred. Eau Rouge '11, enough said.

Absolutely not. He is Mark 'The Chopper' Webber. One instance cannot be generalized. Hamilton, Raikkonen, etc. have been at the receiving end of his stupid moves a few times. Chopping is not defending and it is not clean. He gets red mist when he gets a sudden uncomfortable attack. A clean racer stays calm and treats the situation on merit, whereas with Webber it plays on his ego and that is always recipe for disaster.

Edited by SpaMaster, 09 May 2013 - 12:05.

[karne]

Really hope that the video is going to be available for viewing outside of the UK!

(How ludicrous...a Spaniard and an Australian and undoubtedly the BBC will put the video on their website which is geo-restricted.)

[jannyg]

Webber is one of the worst when it comes to clean racing. In 2010 people on here were calling for a race ban, most notably after his performance in Australia 2010

[TheThirdTenor1]

they interview each other again? o.O..... I'm starting to think they all just playing a show to make more people watch like playing the cards... Webber & Alonso vs. Vettel & Raikönnen it's like Mortal Kombat just without fatalities

Read the article - interview was done in Bahrain and it was because it was their 200th grand prix.

[Sin]

Read the article - interview was done in Bahrain and it was because it was their 200th grand prix.

so it was the same as the one you can find on youtube when you write 'alonso interview webber'? cause I already heard that one weeks ago

if the article got anything new in it I will read it later.. since I been awake 20 hours for the moment it is TL;DR

actually I just scanned over it, seems different from what I heard in the youtube vid...

Edited by Sin, 09 May 2013 - 12:20.

[karne]

Webber is one of the worst when it comes to clean racing. In 2010 people on here were calling for a race ban, most notably after his performance in Australia 2010

You're joking, aren't you?

[Sin]

talking about clean racing.... if it comes to that Seb is probably the best

and Button I would say .... but just cause I never seen Button crash...

Edited by Sin, 09 May 2013 - 12:23.

[Sin]

to be honest now... I think neither Webber nor Vettel are prime examples of very clean racing (meaning not accidently crashing into someone) neither of them are really bad tho and of course neither of them are total idiots... but they go very hard to the limit and it's easy to mess up there... if you go on a racing track you better leave the Gentleman at home in my opinion.... I think they both are fair in their racing tho (normally at least Marks move after Malaysia GP was over was a little meh (not talking about the defensive move he did but the one where he shot towards Seb, as race was over))... off track I don't like Marks attitude... tho... since he has stopped shouting out stuff I'm at the moment at peace ...

I still think Seb in general is the best driver of the bunch (with Hülkenberg & Kimi)... but thats just my opinion Seb also the driver I want to see winning atm him or Sutil


_{at least none of them is doing it like me in F1 2012 where I let half the field crash into me so me and my Teammate finished 1 & 2}

generally I think that Button is the cleanest driver

Edited by ForeverF1, 09 May 2013 - 12:52.
Removed excessive 'smilies'.

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

There is "clean", "aggressive", and then there is "dirty".

I would put him in the "aggressive" category. "Dirty" is doing things that are deliberately dangerous to intimidate, or flagrant violation of sporting conduct - Maldonado, Piquet Jr, Senna, Schumacher..... Vettel passing Webber under false conditions... I wouldn't put Webber in that category. Although in the case of Schumacher, it's a fine line - his "dirty" racing was actually "exploiting the limit of the rules".

I think Coulthard is the cleanest driver there has been.

Edited by Rubens Hakkamacher, 09 May 2013 - 12:44.

[Sin]

There is "clean", "aggressive", and then there is "dirty".

I would put him in the "aggressive" category. "Dirty" is doing things that are deliberately dangerous to intimidate, or flagrant violation of sporting conduct - Maldonado, Piquet Jr, Senna, Schumacher..... Vettel passing Webber under false conditions... I wouldn't put Webber in that category.

I think Coulthard is the cleanest driver there has been.

Vettel isn't dirty either... in my opinion he's aggressive, if Mark was half as good of a driver as Seb he could have turned his engine back up and raced Seb, but he just gave up... that is for me the category of "submissive" driver and then he complained afterwards.... well just my opinion I discussed it in length month ago

Webber does not deserve a win he doesnt even fight for... and if he does not fight he shouldn't complain... good that the team order stuff won't happen in RB again if you can believe thinks... they should.... allow all teammates to race each other, that would be exciting...

Edited by Sin, 09 May 2013 - 12:48.

[Tonka]

generally I think that Button is the cleanest driver

Perez might dispute that after being forced off the track in Bahrain.

[Sin]

Perez might dispute that after being forced off the track in Bahrain.

Button didnt crash into Perez did he? thats what I'm talking about crashing into someone while being aggressive... not just being aggressive, that kind of racing is great ;)

[SpaMaster]

Vettel isn't dirty either... in my opinion he's aggressive, if Mark was half as good of a driver as Seb he could have turned his engine back up and raced Seb, but he just gave up... that is for me the category of "submissive" driver and then he complained afterwards.... well just my opinion I discussed it in length month ago

Webber does not deserve a win he doesnt even fight for... and if he does not fight he shouldn't complain... good that the team order stuff won't happen in RB again if you can believe thinks... they should.... allow all teammates to race each other, that would be exciting...

You can argue that was not dirty by Vettel, but please don't make it sound like Webber was at fault for not fighting.

[Ravenak]

I'm using a connection inside UK and don't see the video, where is it located on the page guys?

[Victor_RO]

I'm using a connection inside UK and don't see the video, where is it located on the page guys?

They marked the occasion by getting together with BBC Sport for a dual interview - each asking questions of the other - which will be broadcast ahead of the Spanish Grand Prix this weekend."

There's no video, there should be one during the BBC broadcasts later this week.

[Ravenak]

Oh right, I hadn't reached the end of the article, thanks.

[OvDrone]

It seems that this forum is a bit Webbo-bashing lately.

Anyways, it's nice to see some real respect between two top sportsman. Hope they both have a top race in Catalunya.

[TheThirdTenor1]

I can see a video at the very top of the page.

[Ravenak]

Indeed, I thought it was just an image.

It's not the full length though, we'll have to wait.

[mclarensmps]

and Button I would say .... but just cause I never seen Button crash...

Button on Hamilton in Canada

[BenettonB192]

I would put him in the "aggressive" category. "Dirty" is doing things that are deliberately dangerous to intimidate, or flagrant violation of sporting conduct - Maldonado, Piquet Jr, Senna, Schumacher..... Vettel passing Webber under false conditions... I wouldn't put Webber in that category.

What about Webbers chop on Vettel after the finish line in Malaysia?

[Ravenak]

What about Webbers chop on Vettel after the finish line in Malaysia?

You mean this?

[Atreiu]

Webber is one of the worst when it comes to clean racing. In 2010 people on here were calling for a race ban, most notably after his performance in Australia 2010

And his so many chops...

[JaredS]

O for goodness sake dudes, Mark is one of the cleanest racers out there right now. I'd put him in the bracket with Kimi, JB and Fred. Eau Rouge '11, enough said.

Don't agree. Mark is one of the mot incompetent in wheel to wheel battles. In fact it's quite shocking how bad he is considering his significant experience in F1.

[boldhakka]

Webber might trust a couple of other drivers, but I wonder just how many trust him ?

I know one German driver for starters.

I suspect Webber has chopped all the others, and hence is afraid of retaliation.

To be fair, Webber only has two dirty habits: he chops really, really late, and he tends to hold on to impossible lines well after he has lost the corner. Other than that he's just aggressive.

[W154]

Absolutely not. He is Mark 'The Chopper' Webber. One instance cannot be generalized. Hamilton, Raikkonen, etc. have been at the receiving end of his stupid moves a few times. Chopping is not defending and it is not clean. He gets red mist when he gets a sudden uncomfortable attack. A clean racer stays calm and treats the situation on merit, whereas with Webber it plays on his ego and that is always recipe for disaster.

Oh no, not another Aussie "Chopper"
No doubt he will rock up to Monte Carlo with no ears and arms covered in tats!

[genespleen]

Oh no, not another Aussie "Chopper"
No doubt he will rock up to Monte Carlo with no ears and arms covered in tats!

Nice allusion to a fantastic film!

[Winter98]

There is "clean", "aggressive", and then there is "dirty".

I would put him in the "aggressive" category. "Dirty" is doing things that are deliberately dangerous to intimidate, or flagrant violation of sporting conduct ..... Vettel passing Webber under false conditions...

That's a little tough don't you think?

[blackmme]

Button on Hamilton in Canada

Button on Alonso in Canada

To be fair he doesn't make a habit of it!

Regards Mike

[Shiroo]

Webber is the chopper, but I still like him, definetly one of my top fav drivers due to his personality, and not saying bullcrap. i still hope that he wont leave F1 and if Kimi would go to RBR, he would go to Lotus instead

still Webber and Vergne situation. Well I would do the same as Webber tbh, cause Toro Rosso usually were letting go RBR drivers (look how Vettel overtakes them, they sometimes go on kerb in slow corner just to let Vettel go through, so I asume that Webber thought the same, that Vergne will go away, and he left plenty of space there like confirmation of that).

and Webber is agressive, but he aint the idiot. He won't pull you out of the track in Eau Rogue or smt like that. He is hard defender and quite brutal and dirty but that's how he drive. I still believe that most of the drivers on the grid respect him.

Edited by Shiroo, 10 May 2013 - 06:08.

[DILLIGAF]

Absolutely not. He is Mark 'The Chopper' Webber. One instance cannot be generalized. Hamilton, Raikkonen, etc. have been at the receiving end of his stupid moves a few times. Chopping is not defending and it is not clean. He gets red mist when he gets a sudden uncomfortable attack. A clean racer stays calm and treats the situation on merit, whereas with Webber it plays on his ego and that is always recipe for disaster.

Geez you're full of it. They all chop. Webber is no better or worse than most. Your dislike for Webber has no bounds. Alonso, Button & co appear to disagree with you so who are we to believe. There's the old saying that if you repeat the same BS over & over again people might actually start believing you. This is true of the Mark "Chopper" stuff. Like I said he does it no more or no less than many drivers past or present.

I challenge you to give me 5 clear examples of Webber chopping during a race in the past 5 seasons? I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer.

[mymemoryfails]

Geez you're full of it. They all chop. Webber is no better or worse than most. Your dislike for Webber has no bounds. Alonso, Button & co appear to disagree with you so who are we to believe. There's the old saying that if you repeat the same BS over & over again people might actually start believing you. This is true of the Mark "Chopper" stuff. Like I said he does it no more or no less than many drivers past or present.

I challenge you to give me 5 clear examples of Webber chopping during a race in the past 5 seasons? I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer.

Let me offer the first .. Silverstone 2010 off the start Oh wait...




mymemory fails

[ensign14]

I challenge you to give me 5 clear examples of Webber chopping during a race in the past 5 seasons? I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer.

1. On Kimi at Brazil 2009.
2. On Rubens at Abu Dhabi 2009.
3. On Hamilton at Australia 2010 (reprimand).
4. On Rubens at Germany 2010 (penalty).
5. On Kubica at Monza 2009.
6. On Hamilton at Singapore 2010. (thinking about it, this was more a punt)

There was also one where he punted Kova off and blamed Kova...

/waits for response where all sorts of excuses are given as to why none of the above incidents were Webber's fault, even though he admitted one, was penalized for two others and says he didn't see a driver in another

(Oh, and before the Singapore GP in 2010, Brundle asked Webber if Webber was willing to "play dirty" - the answer was an unequivocal yes)

Edited by ensign14, 10 May 2013 - 07:29.

[P123]

Didn't MW hammer into the side of Rosberg at the last race in Bahrain? That seemed a bit of a vicious chop.

Generally, they all get involved in on-track scuffles. Even the supposed 'clean' or unagressive drivers.

[Raelene]

I'll take the words of Alonso and Button (who hassaid similar about Mark) thank some of the Nancies in here...

[ensign14]

You'd take the word of someone who hid facts from his boss until he used them for blackmail? Interesting.

[Raelene]

you reckon I'd take the word of some armchair "experts" over the guys on the track !!!!! Really??????

[ensign14]

OK, let's give an example. Is Vettel sorry for ignoring Multi 21? If you asked him straight after the race, yes; if you asked him a week later, no. So when can you take the word of Vettel?

[Sin]

OK, let's give an example. Is Vettel sorry for ignoring Multi 21? If you asked him straight after the race, yes; if you asked him a week later, no. So when can you take the word of Vettel?

you say many things if the day is long... you dont know WHY Seb said what he said, if he meant it different or if he maybe said things he didn't mean to say, like many people do when they are 'in the moment' as I would say...

also he had time to reflect after Malaysia...

I don't think Vettel is a liar.... I think he generally is a honest guy.... in the end he said what he really thought

[ensign14]

you say many things if the day is long... you dont know WHY Seb said what he said, if he meant it different or if he maybe said things he didn't mean to say, like many people do when they are 'in the moment' as I would say...

also he had time to reflect after Malaysia...

I don't think Vettel is a liar.... I think he generally is a honest guy.... in the end he said what he really thought

Which is partly my point. Is an instinctive and immediate reaction more honest than a later considered view? Will a driver say something for political gain? Will a driver say something to make a psychological point? Can everything that is said by a driver be taken as gospel? How often does a driver admit screwing up? Or having a better team-mate?

It's fallacious to assume that drivers make the best analysts. That's like saying you can learn more about history from reading politicians' autobiographies than historians' work.

[Raelene]

the guys have said they know drivers they can trust wheel to wheel racing with...why would you know any better than the guys out there?

If you'd ever raced, you would know what people on track you can trust more than others..

[ensign14]

That's as maybe. And whom they trust and whom they say they trust might not coincide.

[JaredS]

I'll take the words of Alonso and Button (who hassaid similar about Mark) thank some of the Nancies in here...

Really? Can you provide a quote where Alonso and Button have said similar about Mark?

[Raelene]

Really? Can you provide a quote where Alonso and Button have said similar about Mark?

well, I've been watching, reading and listening to F1 for a long long time - so I've seen it, heard it read it - but don't have a quote handy...but a I'm sure a lot in here would have also head, read it etc...

but as you asked...try about 3.40 mark and listen... this interview was from a couple of weeks ago - surprised you haven't seen it (judging by your question you haven't)