772 replies to this topic

[rko281]

I guess that people is so desperate to take away the credit from Alonso once again it've got to be that people's worried as Alonso now has a car to fight for wins (just like Vettel or Kimi).

I don't think it's that. Alonso had a car to fight for win in the previous races (in Australia except Lotus, no team took into consideration a 2 stop strategy and that's one of the reasons Lotus did it, in China Alonso won, and in the other 2 races the front wing mistake and DRS failure prevented him to fight for the win).
Maybe you are referring to the dominant win he had in Spain and that's why people might be worried. Just look at Massa's finish position after stating 9th. In Spain Ferrari had a great car, a great strategy and great driving from both drivers. I don't think people take anything away from Alonso, maybe too often they don't give enough credit to the team. But at least in Spain they made up for the front wing fiasco in Malaysia, so they seem to be back in taking great decisions.

Edited by rko281, 14 May 2013 - 10:29.

[joshb]

I guess that people is so desperate to take away the credit from Alonso once again it've got to be that people's worried as Alonso now has a car to fight for wins (just like Vettel or Kimi).

Maybe, if you look the the 3 races Alonso has finished without dramas, in all 3 the Alonso/Ferrari combo has beaten the Vettel/RB combo in all 3 and all by relatively comfortable margins (big gap in Spain), so whilst it looks good seeing Vettel on top, Alonso has only had 3 decent scores and got 68/75 points from them 3 races.
The only reason (as good as Seb and Kimi have driven so far) Alonso isn't out in the clear is because him and the team have made errors in 2 races (Alonso could probably have taken 110pts or so by now)- it could be hard to stop him if he does get clear

[arttidesco]

Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari seem pretty evenly matched, I believe the reason that the Ferrari looked so dominant on Sunday was because they were the only team that had to and did take all the risks on strategy simply to stay in Championship contention, Kimi reduced his points deficit without taking any risks and Sebastian kept his points lead taking still fewer risks.

It seems to me Alonso still has the most work to do so it will be interesting to see what the casino in Monaco pays Ferrari are again the only team that has to win while Lotus and Red Bull can play cat and mouse for safe points finishes.

Edited by arttidesco, 14 May 2013 - 13:10.

[1Devil1]

Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari seem pretty evenly matched, I believe the reason that the Ferrari looked so dominant on Sunday was because they were the only team that had to and did take all the risks on strategy simply to stay in Championship contention, Kimi reduced his points deficit without taking any risks and Sebastian kept his points lead taking still fewer risks.

It seems to me Alonso still has the most work to do so it will be interesting to see what the casino in Monaco pays Ferrari are again the only team that has to win while Lotus and Red Bull can play cat and mouse for safe points finishes.

We are only five races into the season no team will take unnecessary risks or play it safe because of a twenty points lead. Approaches like this are used in the the second half or the last few races. Imagine Ferrari would have caught up because of a risky strategy in Barcelona - there was no need to go for all or nothing. This season is long and both Red Bull and Lotus will have their fair share of bad luck. Sometimes I think people believe we are sill using the old point system. Alonso was one win behind Kimi and Vettel. Schumacher nearly pulled it off to reduce a three wins lead of Alonso.. being around half time in 2006.

[TheThirdTenor1]

Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari seem pretty evenly matched, I believe the reason that the Ferrari looked so dominant on Sunday was because they were the only team that had to and did take all the risks on strategy simply to stay in Championship contention, Kimi reduced his points deficit without taking any risks and Sebastian kept his points lead taking still fewer risks.

It seems to me Alonso still has the most work to do so it will be interesting to see what the casino in Monaco pays Ferrari are again the only team that has to win while Lotus and Red Bull can play cat and mouse for safe points finishes.

Ferrari do not HAVE to win in Monaco.

[arttidesco]

Ferrari do not HAVE to win in Monaco.

If Ferrari finish behind Red Bull and Lotus in Monaco they will have to stress their machinery even more later in the season to get back into contention, in that sense I would argue Ferrari have to win to stay in contention, relying on bad luck later in the season for Lotus might pay relying on bad luck for anything connected with Adrian Newey is at best foolish, I'm not saying it can't happen but it is highly unlikely one does not win three championships on the trot by forgetting to dot all the i's and cross all the t's ;)

[Cesc]

Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari seem pretty evenly matched, I believe the reason that the Ferrari looked so dominant on Sunday was because they were the only team that had to and did take all the risks on strategy simply to stay in Championship contention, Kimi reduced his points deficit without taking any risks and Sebastian kept his points lead taking still fewer risks.

It seems to me Alonso still has the most work to do so it will be interesting to see what the casino in Monaco pays Ferrari are again the only team that has to win while Lotus and Red Bull can play cat and mouse for safe points finishes.

Well, 5 races out of 19... Vettel got 20 points advantage over Alonso in one single shot at BAhrain and 25 in Sepang and Alonso got back 13 in Barcelona...So 17 points sound to me pretty few at this stage. With the old point system, the difference would be 7 I think, much less from psychological point of view, isn´t it?

[Sakae]

I guess that people is so desperate to take away the credit from Alonso once again it've got to be that people's worried as Alonso now has a car to fight for wins (just like Vettel or Kimi).

Ecclestone said that (surprise) tire in last race was not to the level that was ordered, thus you can think of it that Ferrari won last race on illegal tire for all practical purposes. I don't think anyone will take anyone to court for that, but don't be upset if things might be more predictable in the future.

[SpaMaster]

Ecclestone said that (surprise) tire in last race was not to the level that was ordered, thus you can think of it that Ferrari won last race on illegal tire for all practical purposes. I don't think anyone will take anyone to court for that, but don't be upset if things might be more predictable in the future.

Absolute non-sense. First of all there was no such detailed specs on how the tyres must be built. As TC3000 educated you meticulous for multiple number of times, nobody can tell a tyre manufacturer that. One could only give guidelines. Next, you can never use the term 'illegal' for tyres. They are not competitors to be bound by law. There is no law per se for them. A post that hints at a totally lost mind!

[Cesc]

Ecclestone said that (surprise) tire in last race was not to the level that was ordered, thus you can think of it that Ferrari won last race on illegal tire for all practical purposes. I don't think anyone will take anyone to court for that, but don't be upset if things might be more predictable in the future.

"Ferrari won last race on illegal tire"

[Sakae]

Absolute non-sense. First of all there was no such detailed specs on how the tyres must be built. As TC3000 educated you meticulous for multiple number of times, nobody can tell a tyre manufacturer that. One could only give guidelines. Next, you can never use the term 'illegal' for tyres. They are not competitors to be bound by law. There is no law per se for them. A post that hints at a totally lost mind!

What is none-sense? Me quoting the article, or Ecclestone for saying what the instructions were?

[TheThirdTenor1]

Ecclestone said that (surprise) tire in last race was not to the level that was ordered, thus you can think of it that Ferrari won last race on illegal tire for all practical purposes. I don't think anyone will take anyone to court for that, but don't be upset if things might be more predictable in the future.

Well perhaps you can think of it that way (if it makes you happy) but anyone with more than 2 brain cells can see that is clearly not the case.

[TheThirdTenor1]

What is none-sense? Me quoting the article, or Ecclestone for saying what the instructions were?

You saying Ferrari won the last race on illegal tyres.

[SpaMaster]

What is none-sense? Me quoting the article, or Ecclestone for saying what the instructions were?

Are purposefully being obtuse? Let what Eccelstone said be what it is and you can quote as many statements as you want. But where did you find the term "illegal" tyres? I clearly referred to that. You know that. Or, did Ecclestone call the tyres illegal? Are you just messing with people for the sake of it?

[arttidesco]

Well, 5 races out of 19... Vettel got 20 points advantage over Alonso in one single shot at BAhrain and 25 in Sepang and Alonso got back 13 in Barcelona...So 17 points sound to me pretty few at this stage. With the old point system, the difference would be 7 I think, much less from psychological point of view, isn´t it?

Well as Murray Walker often used to say "Catching the person in front is one thing overtaking them is quite another", that applies to on the road and in the championship table no matter how many points behind

[Sakae]

You saying Ferrari won the last race on illegal tyres.

Yeah, I used that word to get some attention to the fact, that Ecclestone "clarified" what was expected of Pirelli to bring to the race, and what they had delivered. Whilst my rambling is based quoting a second source, but if factual, you can challenge FiA whether race results should be counted towards championships. (I am sure Pirelli will come back with process variances, etc.). It was error, deliberate or not, it doesn't matter, but it might cost a lot of teams a lot of money, if they will be short on points in November.

[RockyRaccoon68]

Yeah, I used that word to get some attention to the fact, that Ecclestone "clarified" what was expected of Pirelli to bring to the race, and what they had delivered. Whilst my rambling is based quoting a second source, but if factual, you can challenge FiA whether race results should be counted towards championships. (I am sure Pirelli will come back with process variances, etc.). It was error, deliberate or not, it doesn't matter, but it might cost a lot of teams a lot of money, if they will be short on points in November.

You know, for a second I thought you were being serious!

[TheThirdTenor1]

Yeah, I used that word to get some attention to the fact, that Ecclestone "clarified" what was expected of Pirelli to bring to the race, and what they had delivered. Whilst my rambling is based quoting a second source, but if factual, you can challenge FiA whether race results should be counted towards championships. (I am sure Pirelli will come back with process variances, etc.). It was error, deliberate or not, it doesn't matter, but it might cost a lot of teams a lot of money, if they will be short on points in November.

Well Ecclestone saying the tyres were not expected is not the same as the tyres being illegal, so it's probably best not to use the latter term even if you are yearning for some attention on an internet forum.

[SpartanChas]

Only thing exciting about this race was Paul Di Resta's press officer.

Forgot all about her! Thanks for reminding me.

[SpaMaster]

Well Ecclestone saying the tyres were not expected is not the same as the tyres being illegal, so it's probably best not to use the latter term even if you are yearning for some attention on an internet forum.

Just desperate type of posting that. Some people are clearly losing their mind seeing their drivers getting affected. "Ferrari won the race with illegal tyres", that's right up there with some of the stuff I have read in any forums..

[alframsey]

I thought this was the worst race I have watched for years, the cars looked so slow it was embarrassing!

[Ikebana]

Ecclestone said that (surprise) tire in last race was not to the level that was ordered, thus you can think of it that Ferrari won last race on illegal tire for all practical purposes. I don't think anyone will take anyone to court for that, but don't be upset if things might be more predictable in the future.

This isn't 4chan, dude.

Maybe, if you look the the 3 races Alonso has finished without dramas, in all 3 the Alonso/Ferrari combo has beaten the Vettel/RB combo in all 3 and all by relatively comfortable margins (big gap in Spain), so whilst it looks good seeing Vettel on top, Alonso has only had 3 decent scores and got 68/75 points from them 3 races.
The only reason (as good as Seb and Kimi have driven so far) Alonso isn't out in the clear is because him and the team have made errors in 2 races (Alonso could probably have taken 110pts or so by now)- it could be hard to stop him if he does get clear

I know your point is that Alonso has the best car without competition (it's always the same story by some when Alonso wins a race, as it was even during his Renault days in 2008 ) so I'm not gonna bother.

But regarding the mistakes... A racing incident would be hardly a mistake, touches in front wings happen oftenly. As for what happened with the DRS, despite that the thing was managed poorly, it was a reliability issue mostly. But I guess it's nice to put all the blame on Alonso or the team. Vettel fan by any chance?

Edited by Ikebana, 15 May 2013 - 00:53.

[Cesc]

I'm really surprised about the complains now that Alonso has finally a car to compete against Red bull (at least for now, we'll see for how long). But for many F1 fans coming from before the Red Bull era, years like 2011 were really crappy years in terms of racing (similar to 2002 or 2004): Vettel got pole and win in more than half of races. For a F1 fan (me) that's quite boring.

I'm a little pissed off also about the tires complain. If Ferrari and Lotus can handle them properly, is a problem of the others trying to improve. But I'm afraid unfortunately Pirelli will take a conservative approach for the second half of the season and that's it, Red Bull will win again.

Edited by Cesc, 15 May 2013 - 05:32.