Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Which tyre era was more exciting


  • Please log in to reply
138 replies to this topic

#101 RealRacing

RealRacing
  • Member

  • 2,541 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:12

Why does it have to always be - Bridgestone or Pirelli?

What was wrong with this?




Exactly, people talking about Bridgestone vs Pirelli don't see that a lot of the BS era had refueling, fundamentally changing the rules. In that case, the comparison should take into account many other factors (aero, rules...).

Personally, I liked late 80s and 90s until they brought in refueling, which has probably been the single worst factor in making races boring. At least they managed to get rid of IT.

Having said that, a race with no tyre changes would also be ok as all passing would have to be made on track and the cars would be closer to each other.


Advertisement

#102 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:17

Bridgestone era and it's not even close. I have no interest in watching this Pirelli garbage anymore.

#103 ViMaMo

ViMaMo
  • Member

  • 6,513 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:36

I'd like to see a concoction of DRS, Kers and Bridgestone-like tyres just to see the outcome. I rather get the feeling most would quite enjoy it.


2009 was close to what you are asking.

I'd prefer a full blown 'tyre-war' with 3+ manufacturers. Since that is unlikely to happen and we'll probably be stuck with spec-tyres, I prefer whichever makes them least relevant.


Already had that with Michelin versus BS. Tyre wars bring nothing exciting.


Edited by ViMaMo, 14 May 2013 - 01:59.


#104 blowndiffuser

blowndiffuser
  • Member

  • 33 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:51

I have two ideas:

1) Bridgestones + more DRS zones

2) 2011 Pirellis with better calibrated DRS zones

I only started watching F1 in 2010 so I did not experience the much talked-about borefests that some associate with the Bridgestone era. Nevertheless, I did enjoy the racing in 2010, with only a slight wish that the faster following car would be able to overtake with more ease.

I enjoyed 2011 as there were many close battles due to tyre degradation, and it wasn't as bad as it is now. However, I remember the huge uproar about the effects of DRS and I wished the zones were a bit shorter to allow for a closer fight during overtaking.

#105 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 4,954 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:07

Bridgestone ERA my favourite.

I will keep saying it but overtaking is overhyped.

Racing is not just about one car passing another. Its about driving on the limit of the cars performance and your own performance.

Whats happening to meerc and lewis si showing how broken F1 is. Spain usually front row wins, and merc finish 6th and 12th wtf.

Brundle called all the onboards 'pedestrian'.

Lewis says he wanted to race in a previous era and if I was him I would quit.

Williams who have car 2secs slower than merc overtake them in the race.

Last few races in a row tryes are blowing up.

Best recent years are schumi vs mika
schumi vs alonso
alonso vs lewis vs kimi
lews vs massa

after that its been poor. I have found all the pirelli years pretty bad and am now not watching any more live races this year, the decision has been made. Email sent to sky as to why I wont be renewing sky go. surprisingly they replied back apologising and admitting they had many emails for the same reasons and they are approaching F1 about the problem. Got givn 2 free months fo sky go and a promised further update on pirelli policy, sky also told me pirelli do NOT have a 2014 contract and other trye companeis are been talked to.

I think people who find overtakes due to trye wear and management as excliting are sadly just gullible and dont realise they not watching racing. Not to mention refueliing was banned to stop pit stops and now we have more pit stops than the refuelling era, with speed of changing tryes a very important factor so hence pit stop races.


:rolleyes: I'm kind of missing the forced nostalgia for the Senna-Prost era, at least it isn't as embarrassing as the even more forced nostalgia for the Bridgestone procession years.

Spain was fairly enjoyable, as opposed to the Bridgestone years where after 5 laps nothing changed except if you had mechanical failures.

I remember how people raved about the battles at Imola where there were no overtakes between Button-Schumacher and Schumacher-Alonso. For 12 goddamn laps! After Schumi was stuck behind Trulli for 20 laps! And those were the good days. The good days were days where drivers couldn't overtake.

Spain was infinitely more enjoyable than that rubbish.




#106 corf

corf
  • Member

  • 267 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:39

Pirelli any day. The Bridgestone refuelling era was terrible, no overtakes, no excitement etc. The FIA seem to be too scared to change the downforce rules so therefore the tyres must make the show instead.

#107 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 9,272 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:53

tyre war, bringing the best of anything is nearly always special.

people enjoyed the battle and high stakes, giving it everything aspect, now it could be no skill drs passes yay, or roll over to save tyres sometimes we get a not to contrived battle and its great

#108 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 2,042 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:56

I liked it when I watched 1999-2001 was tyre war then I guess... I also liked it last year... what I do not like is this year... it's not necessarily Pirellis fault but it's FIAs fault for their request....

and the latest comment of Hembrey where he is like: "If we do it different we favor Red Bull...", it sounds like he is favoring the other teams atm... which I think is not fair....

I also don't like that all drivers can't race at the limit atm

---

and I dont think quali was deciding at tyre war time :o

I loved Magny Cours and Monza 1999 :p

Edited by Sin, 14 May 2013 - 04:21.


#109 MP422

MP422
  • Member

  • 2,157 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:17

They should rename the WCC to World Championships for best car with Pirelli tyres(WCBCPT). Or Oscar for best usage of Pirelli tyres goes to ...........
Now Pirelli make WCC and WDC useless. Because there isn't constructor and driver competition anymore.


I see the point you are making. Lol.

#110 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 2,042 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:22

There is one thing FIA probably have never heard about:

"Never change a running system..."

#111 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:27

Racing tire should be like children; seen, but not heard from.

#112 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:42

The only problem I had with the Bridgestone era boring racing was the grooves.
If they were slicks, would've livened things up no end.

Otherwise, the Goodyear era.

Then, if Pirelli/FIA/Whoever hadn't screwed around with the tyres teams were using at end of 2012, I'd be happy. Still detesting Pirelli but I'd be happy.

#113 ViMaMo

ViMaMo
  • Member

  • 6,513 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:15

Tyre wars are good when teams are free to chose any brand. Sure the war was exciting but hardly the consequences. The car maybe brilliant but whats the use if the tyres suck?

#114 Antonov

Antonov
  • Member

  • 603 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:23

I liked 2005, in which the tyre had to last the distance.

#115 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:54

Pirelli any day. The Bridgestone refuelling era was terrible, no overtakes, no excitement etc. The FIA seem to be too scared to change the downforce rules so therefore the tyres must make the show instead.

I still can't see the excitement in today's overtakes. When you know what will happen 10 minutes ,before it really happens. When car ahead doesn't defend or doesn't have the speed ,it is just sitting duck.
I prefer one real overtake which happen after 10 laps battle instead of this. Before you didn't know if the overtake will happen or not. It was surprise and best showing of driver skill.
Tyre is only the ground on which teams and drivers should work. Everyone prefer stable ground for competition. Nobody likes earthquakes. Or shaking ground. Then you have lottery, not racing.


#116 Astro

Astro
  • Member

  • 406 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:32

2010 end of season with Alonso trying to pass Petrov was on the edge of your seat stuff with will he won't he, him going off track trying everything to pass.


If you enjoyed it, then you would want the Bridgestones back. But if, as me, you may have felt frustrated watching a car unable to overtake another only because a lost of downforce and lasting tires that did allow this situation to change for most of the race, then you would go for Pirellis.

The thing is, if you make the tires more durable, the cars will not go all-out, they will try to make less pit stops. And at the end, a snoozefest would ensue because, apart from making overtaking more difficult again, lasting tires will give them enough time to spread on the field, and then leading cars won't mix with the midfield. You could bring back refueling, but then it would not solve the problem of overtaking.

IMO, the problem is not Pirelli, but the teams. Only Lotus got it right. So I say, suck it up champs. RBR hit the nail with exhaust gases, and other teams had to work on it for 3 years just so they could discern RBR driving into the distance. They need to make their homework, because Lotus has shown everyone that it is possible to take care of the tires.

For me, Pirelli is almost there already. Its tires last 10-20 laps, giving a chance of overtaking due to different levels of degradation (compensating for lost of downforce when overtaking due to aero). They also put a limit in aerodynamic reliance, which is a welcome change. Now they just need to make their tires safer. Additionally, cheese tires are making boosting gimmicks a bit of an overkill, and having to use both compounds unnecessary.

#117 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:05

At the end of 2012, which according to the idiots at Pirelli was a procession, was a thousand times more interesting than the garbage that's been 2013.

If you enjoyed it, then you would want the Bridgestones back. But if, as me, you may have felt frustrated watching a car unable to overtake another only because a lost of downforce and lasting tires that did allow this situation to change for most of the race, then you would go for Pirellis.

The thing is, if you make the tires more durable, the cars will not go all-out, they will try to make less pit stops. And at the end, a snoozefest would ensue because, apart from making overtaking more difficult again, lasting tires will give them enough time to spread on the field, and then leading cars won't mix with the midfield. You could bring back refueling, but then it would not solve the problem of overtaking.

IMO, the problem is not Pirelli, but the teams. Only Lotus got it right. So I say, suck it up champs. RBR hit the nail with exhaust gases, and other teams had to work on it for 3 years just so they could discern RBR driving into the distance. They need to make their homework, because Lotus has shown everyone that it is possible to take care of the tires.

For me, Pirelli is almost there already. Its tires last 10-20 laps, giving a chance of overtaking due to different levels of degradation (compensating for lost of downforce when overtaking due to aero). They also put a limit in aerodynamic reliance, which is a welcome change. Now they just need to make their tires safer. Additionally, cheese tires are making boosting gimmicks a bit of an overkill, and having to use both compounds unnecessary.


Yeah, Lotus and Raikkonen are SO incredible, nothing to do with the fact that Pirelli are using their cars to make the tires :rolleyes:

Edited by BigCHrome, 14 May 2013 - 08:06.


#118 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 14,507 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:27

Pirelli says it can bring boring processions back to F1 if asked. Were Bridgestone durable tyres really boring? Are we having better racing now with Pirelli than we use to have with Bridgestone tyres?

We're not having better 'racing', no, because the current tyres disintegrate if pushed. What we obviously need is something in between, tyres that allow some fast/attacking driving, but don't last 60 laps.

#119 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 3,637 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:37

how about both bridgestones and pirelli?

ferrari can keep their love in with pirelli whilst everyone else goes back to proper tryes and we watch a proper race.

or 2 races, one with pirelli bore fest and one with bridgestones after proper race.

Advertisement

#120 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 8,479 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:40

Pirelli any day. The Bridgestone refuelling era was terrible, no overtakes, no excitement etc. The FIA seem to be too scared to change the downforce rules so therefore the tyres must make the show instead.

That's what needs to be changed and what fans can push FIA/FOM to change. otherwise F1 will continue this pathetic going back and forth of bs or pirrelli, and gimmicky racing of DRS/"fragile" tyres. If that's what you want so be it.

I have two ideas:

1) Bridgestones + more DRS zones

2) 2011 Pirellis with better calibrated DRS zones

I only started watching F1 in 2010 so I did not experience the much talked-about borefests that some associate with the Bridgestone era. Nevertheless, I did enjoy the racing in 2010, with only a slight wish that the faster following car would be able to overtake with more ease.

I enjoyed 2011 as there were many close battles due to tyre degradation, and it wasn't as bad as it is now. However, I remember the huge uproar about the effects of DRS and I wished the zones were a bit shorter to allow for a closer fight during overtaking.


3) overhaul of aero rule ie less aero sensitive by more ground effect, less upper-body aero bits. also no rev limit.



#121 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 3,637 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:41

If you enjoyed it, then you would want the Bridgestones back. But if, as me, you may have felt frustrated watching a car unable to overtake another only because a lost of downforce and lasting tires that did allow this situation to change for most of the race, then you would go for Pirellis.

The thing is, if you make the tires more durable, the cars will not go all-out, they will try to make less pit stops. And at the end, a snoozefest would ensue because, apart from making overtaking more difficult again, lasting tires will give them enough time to spread on the field, and then leading cars won't mix with the midfield. You could bring back refueling, but then it would not solve the problem of overtaking.

IMO, the problem is not Pirelli, but the teams. Only Lotus got it right. So I say, suck it up champs. RBR hit the nail with exhaust gases, and other teams had to work on it for 3 years just so they could discern RBR driving into the distance. They need to make their homework, because Lotus has shown everyone that it is possible to take care of the tires.

For me, Pirelli is almost there already. Its tires last 10-20 laps, giving a chance of overtaking due to different levels of degradation (compensating for lost of downforce when overtaking due to aero). They also put a limit in aerodynamic reliance, which is a welcome change. Now they just need to make their tires safer. Additionally, cheese tires are making boosting gimmicks a bit of an overkill, and having to use both compounds unnecessary.


2 sets of fans here.

one set which I put you under just wants to see overtakes, doesnt matter they fake overtakes eg, button letting people by as defending wreck his tyres, you just want overtakes at whatever cost.

other set of fans want to see drivers and cars on limit, tryes play a minimal role, and hard overtaking, so drivers can defend and the driver behind has to be brave to pull it off. This also puts track position back been important again meaning quali being important again as well.

#122 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 3,637 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:42

Pirelli any day. The Bridgestone refuelling era was terrible, no overtakes, no excitement etc. The FIA seem to be too scared to change the downforce rules so therefore the tyres must make the show instead.


do you only find overtakes exciting?

#123 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 3,637 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:52

If we needed proof that people forget quickly, complaining about a fast-degrading tyre is it.

Not long ago F1 was incredibly predictable but the last seasons has without doubt been much better than many or most of the ones preceding them.

And last season started the same way with crazy degradation but leveled out once teams got on top of the tyres, the season ending with the traditional 2 stops regular stints.


you assume everyone hates predictability and loves overtaking, not all of us think like that.

#124 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 2,042 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:55

Pro refueling

Posted Image
https://twitter.com/...3241856/photo/1

no not really, I don't know what to think about refueling since it seems dangerous
but the picture fit into the discussion

#125 30ft penguin

30ft penguin
  • Member

  • 2,522 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:24

Lotus is the argument that they haven't missed. Clearly it's possible to manage these tyres well if you design the car to do so. In the 5Live podcast they looked at tyres after the race and apparently Kimi's looked beautiful. He was even able to use the Mediums for long stints. That tells me there's nothing wrong the tyres - just that teams are slow to catch up to the new paradigm.



No, you're missing the point there. It is true that Kimi and his Lotus seems to be able to make the tyres work, but only because Kimi did not really RACE, either. He, too, had to nurse the tyres. That still is not the good old racing the people who complain here want to see. That the Lotus is one of the best cars of the current field for the Pirelli tyres does not mean the combination of that car plus those tyres is, absolutely seen, a good thing.




#126 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 3,637 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:26

kimi defenitly did have trye issues, brundle called his onboard pedestrian.

Edited by chrcol, 14 May 2013 - 09:46.


#127 nOfe4r

nOfe4r
  • New Member

  • 26 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:28

Some people have curious priorities when it comes to quality versus quantity.

What we see isn't racing, just because many cars overtake each other. I take less care of my car going to the next discounter than Lewis Hamilton when he wants to get past another car on a racetrack.

Also you can not compare different tyre-eras because there is a interdependency with other rule changes. Further, everyone describes the Bridgestones as "hard" tires, yet they were faster AND more durable at the same time, which in my view fits much better into a picture of the "pinnacle of motorsports". At the moment what I see is nothing about racing. The only thing in this whole "sport" or "show" being at the limit is the tires. I wonder if everyone would look so fresh afterwards if they had to do real racing.

In a nutshell: I can't understand the people, be it here or in the F1 management :|

#128 paulrobs

paulrobs
  • Member

  • 664 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:40

When was the era when nobody gave a s**t about what rubber was wrapped round the wheels? That would be the best era.


Just fell off my chair... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#129 paulrobs

paulrobs
  • Member

  • 664 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:43

Pirelli is choosing to ignore that there is something between what we saw yesterday and "boring processions". There is a balance among all the regulations and equipment that creates interesting, fair racing..and right now the Pirelli tire is out of balance. I wish they'd be less defensive about what they have done and just accept that they've missed the target. Its fine to remind us that they may have missed that target because of the limited testing and out of date car they use for their own testing, but they don't need to be throwing around hyperbole and deflecting the responsibility.


Yes, a good and fair post :up:

#130 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 23,220 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:46

Because's there's a few different variables that have changed dramatically all at the same time, people's views are getting a bit foggy. Reminds me of my argument a few years back that F1 changes its rules so often that is losing all of its identity and nobody knows what F1 is, or should be anymore. That is still very true. Some hate DRS, some love it, some hate Pirellis, some love it, same for refuelling, same for the qualifying regulations, some have extreme views on some variables yet moderate views on others at the same time, add team and driver allegiances on top of this, the knee-jerk reactions after every race, and it's all a giant cluster****. In the middle of this there's very little you can do to be heard, but I'll still offer my humble, hopefully sensible opinion.

As far as I'm concerned, I certainly don't want the racing of 2010 back. A Ferrari losing the title because it was stuck behind a much much slower Renault for 30 laps, in a track that featured several massive long straights into hairpins, was the most obvious extreme F1 was totally broken. But beyond forgetting this sad scenario, people also forget that wasn't entirely the Bridgestone's fault - DRS has gone a long way to fix the overtaking issue now (indeed, sometimes far too long a way as it has become so easy!).

No, Pirelli have not fixed overtaking at all (at least not directly), yet they have introduced 3 different side-effects with their ballsy approach, which have completely changed the dynamics of the race as well:

1. softness of compounds, which directly equals more pitstops

2. much higher need to manage the tyres through driving

3. much higher variance of pace throughout a race

Please notice I have distinguished between 1) and 2) which is the crux of the issue. These two effects are no doubt interlinked due to the construct of the tyre, but they are not the same! And this is my problem with Pirelli.

I think they have the right idea. The #3 effect (variance of pace) is a brilliant introduction to the races and has dramatically improved the show, I believe this is by far their greatest achievement. I think #1 and #2 were neccessary as well too. Without at least 1 more pitstop compared to the bullet-proof 2010 Bridgestones, you don't have a wider array for strategical decisions which is a core feature of F1, and you would not have such a scope for variance of pace as well. I also really like the idea of drivers being able to choose between pushing or saving tyres a little - not an option on Bridgestone days when you HAD to push all day.

The problem is that both #1 and #2 are vastly overdone effects as it is. I personally think 4 pitstops in a race just for tyres is truly ridiculous, not only it's hard to explain to a casual fan, it's also difficult to justify what exactly this many pitstops adds to a hardcore fan's enjoyment of a race. Surely we all tune in to watch fast cars driven really quickly, not to watch the pitcrew repeatedly in the cameras? No, 1 stop, 2 stops, at a push maybe 3 on a very extreme day, is a far more sensible thing.

Then we come to what everyone's been rightly complaining about - drivers aren't just managing tyres a bit, they're driving WAY off the peak limit of their machines to desperately squeeze out more laps of their rubber. It's insanely extreme. You didn't get a choice between pushing or saving with the Bridgestones, you had to push; but you don't have a choice with these neither, you have to save. Which is probably a little worse. No, what I want is for that choice to be there.

Now, this is NOT a direct factor of how soft the tyres are - and this is Pirelli's biggest failing. Think about it for a minute. Bridgestone made tyres that lasted 40 laps all driven at 100% and could take it. At their softest however, they would probably have to be nurtured a little, but would still last some 20 laps at 95%. Pirelli makes tyres that lasts just 10 laps driven at 70% at best... and at their hardest maybe they can last 25 laps driven also at 70%. This is all on purpose, because they have the skills to make rock-hard ones as well. I understand it's extremely difficult to get the variables right, but if they can mess with them on purpose, then why the **** is the optimal point driving them at 70% instead of 90-95%? Why can't they make a tyre that is relatively soft, ie won't last over half a race, but can be slightly abused without massive worries your times will drop by 3 seconds a lap?

So to cut it short, as I've written far too much - I believe Pirelli have a better idea than Bridgestone did, but their execution is rather poor. Tone it down, make compounds that are both slightly harder and considerably more forgiving, and you'll have the perfect tyre for Formula 1.

And whilst you're at it tweaking F1 things, also tone down DRS slightly to put a higher premium on track position which is totally meaningless right now (a major reason why people won't defend vs others on different strategies now, even if they're direct opponents). The formula is about right, it's just overdone.

#131 Freung

Freung
  • Member

  • 147 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:04

Back in the day they'd use the same tyres for almost half a season


Scratching my head to come up with a reason why that would be a problem..lol

#132 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 3,143 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:07

Good post noikeee.

A couple of thoughts - regards Abu Dhabi 2010 I always wondered what would have happened if it had been Schumi not Alonso behind Petrov. I predict either a succesful pass, or a crash. I don't think he would have just sat there the whole race waiting for something to happen (this is a cheeky aside!)

I think you have put forward a good argument. My counter would be - do something drastic with aero and basic car design. Then you don't have the 'stuck behind problem' so don't need to mess around with the tyres or have DRS. These are just sticking plasters for a more fundamental problem, which in my opinion are damaging the integrity of the sport. Even if they do 'spice up' the 'show'.

I would also ditch the 'must use 2 compounds in a race' and 'must start on the tyres you quali'd on' as I think these are unnecessary contrivences.

#133 ZZei

ZZei
  • Member

  • 614 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:49

Coulthard said Alonso pushed about 90 percent in spain. Back when coulthard was driving even he wasnt always pushing this hard. So its not like everyones not pushing. They just choose not to push, because they think making less pitstops is better. Well as Vettels and Kimis comments after the race prove, they were not so sure going for 3 stops was the right decision. Like if RB knows that tire management isnt your strongest point, why are you trying to do a lotus and make a 3-stopper. You have to play with your cars strenghts, if you dont realize to do that, well why not come out with a full bashout mode after the race where you clearly made some mistakes.

And people using Hamiltons "I cant go any slower" as an opinion of all the drivers, they couldnt be more wrong. Mercedes clearly has had a big flaw in the car for 3 seasons now, these tires just bring it out more. As when it comes to Redbull, maybe they should have a better look at their suspension and focus less on aero. Thats what teams like Lotus, Ferrari and Force India have done.
McLaren and Williams then again are in totally different ballpark. They decided to bring a totally new car for this season, which is always risky. For Example in Spain they were the only teams to not improve on last years quali, as the other teams were one second quicker or so. So to blame pirelli for their own shortcoming is just a normal reaction.

What would be most bizarre would be drastically changing the tires, which would be like pissing on lotus and ferraris cornflakes for doing a better job than the others. What they should do though is to get rid of the tires delaminating and breaking to pieces. After all Barcelona is the hardest track on the tires and the situation will hopefully be better in following races.


#134 SonnyViceR

SonnyViceR
  • Member

  • 1,993 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 14 May 2013 - 13:08

Back when they didn't have spec tyre supplier...

#135 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 23,220 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 14 May 2013 - 20:57

Back when they didn't have spec tyre supplier...


That would be nice in theory, but in reality you just ended up with the Ferrari tyre company vs the Renault tyre company - not very nice if you're McLaren or Williams or ...

#136 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 2,042 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 14 May 2013 - 21:00

That would be nice in theory, but in reality you just ended up with the Ferrari tyre company vs the Renault tyre company - not very nice if you're McLaren or Williams or ...


wouldn't McLaren have connections to Mercedes? :o

#137 scheivlak

scheivlak
  • Member

  • 16,489 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 14 May 2013 - 21:14

wouldn't McLaren have connections to Mercedes? :o

It's been a while since Continental was in F1.

#138 RealRacing

RealRacing
  • Member

  • 2,541 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 May 2013 - 23:48

As some people have already implied, Pirelli and DRS are symptoms that prove F1 as a whole (FIA, manufacturers, owner) has been unable to achieve the objectives they set for themselves. DRS and Pirelli-type tyres were introduced, basically, because they were unable or unwilling to address the turbulence effect.

What RBR and others are experiencing is the result of using tyres as opposed to aero-changes to try to reduce the effectiveness of aerodynamics. They are thinking along the lines of "ok, since we couldn't successfully change the car's aero (meaning they could agree on it), we are going to force the teams to use less of it if they don't want to destroy the tyres". What they didn't think about, apparently, was that it's not the same driving and watching an aero-advanced car at 70% than driving and watching an aero-limited car at close to 100%, the latter being what they originally intended to do and what fans were expecting.

The problem is that everyone can see that the cars are too much for these tyres: no one wants to see top equipment having to operate with sub-par components. The way to go was always to change the cars, the aero, but they couldn't/wouldn't and what we have is a typical result of people not being able to reach compromises...

#139 RogerS

RogerS
  • New Member

  • 23 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 15 May 2013 - 00:49

Make no mistake, the refueling era or at least 90% of it consistent of almost non existent racing, and processions after the first lap of the race when the order settled and everyone just waited for the pitstop strategies to unfold. Go and watch it again if you forgot, they just followed each other around and around no matter the speed advantage without even getting a sniff of an overtake. Race pace was irrelevant and races were basically decided on saturdays. If you had a bad qualifying your weekend was over. We must never go back to that again.

The problem now is the sport lost sight of what was wrong in the sport. We just needed overtaking to be possible, not cheese tyres to mess up races, but since both these things were introduced together they are now linked. We would still have great racing with super hard tyres, with DRS, although some people have the strange dislike of the race order decided on the merit of speed, which is actually the entire point of any racing competition from track and field to F1.

We should have harder tyres that allow drivers to push harder, but still allow for strategy diversity of between 1-3 stops.