29 replies to this topic

[bartez1000]

Hi, i was trying to make a small list of broken carbon fibre monocoques in top racing series:

Legend:
Monocoque Broken -> At least Two big separate pieces of chassis.
Monocoque Cracked -> Can have big cracks, but still in 1 piece.
Monocoque Punctured -> As before, just a hole.
Heavily damaged front of monocoque -> Front part of monocoque broken into many small pieces, or grey carbon dust.
Destroyed roll bars -> Separated from chassis.

Monocoque Broken
F1:
Jacques Laffite Brands 1986 -> http://f1.imgci.com/...S/4900/4971.jpg http://www.flickr.co...68853/lightbox/
Berger Imola 1989 - http://ruerd.home.xs.../F1/f1db336.jpg
Nannini Kanada 1990 https://www.youtube....h?v=7Q6a-8G4rYc
Donelly Jerez 1990 http://www.documenti...0-20-283-29.jpg
Pierluigi Martini Imola 1990 http://youtu.be/VovRlLS4x1g?t=23m3s http://www.posterlou...h-pr273250.html
Andrea Montermini Barcelona 1994 http://fc06.devianta...ory-d63yrpt.jpg
Schumacher Silverstone 1999 http://news.bbcimg.c...e19999getty.jpg
Panis Canada 1997 http://fsb.zedge.net...6e4a529e9623886
Frits Kroymans Laguna Seca Monterey Historics. http://www.autoracin...fedferrari1.jpg
Gp2
Viso Francja 2008 (not sure, but there is sth missing on right side of chassis) http://www.documenti...tovisogp207.jpg

Cart:
Memo Gildey Road America 2001 http://www.documenti...emogidley-1.jpg
Krosnoff Toronto 1996
Zanardi Lausitzring 2001
Stan Fox Indy 500 1995 http://farm1.staticf...dca69c16e_o.jpg
AJ Foyt Road America 1990 (photo maybe)
Indycar
Tonny Renna 2003 (no photos, small info)
Paul Dana Homestead-Miami 2006 (not sure of damages, bad quality video)
Phillippe Gache Indy 500 1992
F3000
Massimo Monti Monza 1988
F3
Takashi Yokoyama Fuji 1997 http://www.documenti...maatfuji228.jpg

Monocoque Punctured
F1
Andrea de Cesaris Monaco 1988 http://www.grandprix...e...97&adi=9776
Sato Austria 2002
Ratzenberger Imola 1994 http://straightspeed..._1a513892aa.jpg

F3000
Tarso Marques Pau 1995
Harberfeld F3000 A1 Ring 2000 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kR1XT-7FggQ
Monocoque Cracked
F1:
Senna Imola 1994 (both sides of chassis broken, but bottom part ok.)

Zonta Interlagos 1999 (wishbone went through a side of chassis, and damaged Ricardo's legs) http://www.gef.es/Co...pdf/8070IMP.pdf
Superligue Formula:
Chris van der Drift 2010 Brands Hatch http://colunistas.ig...after_crash.jpg

Heavily damaged front of monocoque:
Indy Lights:
Tom Wood Kentucky 2003 (No good photos, not sure)
F3000
Dino Morelli, Nurburgring 1997 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FIzR78AfQFw
Johnny Herbert Brands Hatch 1988 http://www.johnnyher...isc/88crash.jpg

Michel Trolle Brands Hatch 1988 http://www.snifferme...3/09/Trolle.jpg

F1:
Kubica Canada 2007 http://www.formula1-...ca_crash_02.jpg

Brundle Dallas 1984 http://www.documenti...le_dallas84.jpg
Johnny Cecotto Brands 1984 Photos needed

CART:

Christian Fittipaldi Surfers Paradise 1997 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=m2__G5FA3mY

IndyCar
Mark Dismore Indialapolis 1991 http://www.documenti...sh91-283-29.jpg

Jeff Andretti 1992 Indy 500 http://www.documenti...-frames-ja2.jpg http://www.documenti...ames-jeff92.png http://www.documenti...-frames-ja3.jpg

Jacques Villeneuve Phoenix 1994 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uBVwaaWIDU0

Nelson Piquet Indy 1992 http://www.documenti...crashindy-0.jpg

http://www.documenti...crashindy-6.jpg

http://www.documenti...crashindy-4.jpg

Hiro Matsuda Indy 500 1992 Photos needed

Mario Andretti Indy 1992 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2aqGXPbiGTQ

Alessandro Zampedri Indy 1996 Photos please

Destroyed roll bars:
F1: Taki Inoue Monaco 1995 http://www.sutton-im...teh0317fe11.jpg
Diniz Nurburgring 1999

Philippe Streiff Jacarapanagua test 1989 http://www.documenti...jacarepagua.jpg

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f10/393255d1347575161-indy-formula-one-fatal-non-fatal-crash-photos-stop-motion-color-b-w-frames-89striefftc.jpg
Indycar Dan Wheldon Vegas 2011

 

Damaged fuel cell area

F1:

Watson Monza 1981 http://speautomotive...08/pdf/k/K3.pdf

Indycar:

Hiro Matsushita Phoenix 1994 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uBVwaaWIDU0

Christian Fittipaldi Milwaukee http://imageshack.us...s/405/c0mq.jpg/

Got any more, or some photos of damaged/cracked/broken carbon chassis?

Edited by bartez1000, 02 November 2013 - 10:05.

[Tim Murray]

Have you seen the photos of Frits Kroymans' accident at Laguna Seca in 2004?

http://www.alfabb.co...-historics.html

which was discussed in this earlier thread:

Monterey Historics Ferrari accident

[funformula]

Hi, i was trying to make a small list of broken carbon fibre monocoques in top racing series:

F1:
Jacques Laffite Brands 1986 -> http://f1.imgci.com/...S/4900/4971.jpg http://www.flickr.co...68853/lightbox/
Andrea de Cesaris Monaco 1988 http://www.grandprix...e...97&adi=9776
Berger Imola 1988 - http://ruerd.home.xs.../F1/f1db336.jpg
Nannini Kanada 1990
Donelly Jerez 1990
Ratzenberger Imola 1994 (chassis punctured)
Senna Imola 1994 (both sides of chassis broken, but bottom part ok.)
Schumacher Silverstone 1999
Sato Austria 2002 (moncoque punctured)
Panis Kanada 1997

Gp2 Viso Francja 2008

F3000 Johnny Herbert Brands Hatch 1988

Cart:
Memo Gildey Road America 2001
Krosnoff Toronto 1996
Zanardi Lausitzring 2001
Stan Fox Indy 500 1995


Indycar
Tonny Renna 2003 (no photos, small info)
Paul Dana Homestead-Miami 2006 (not sure of damages, bad quality video)
Mark Dismore Indialapolis 1991
Phillippe Gache Indy 500 1992 http://www.documenti...sh91-283-29.jpg

F3000
Dino Morelli, Nurburgring 1997

F3
Takashi Yokoyama Fuji 1997

Heavily damaged front of monocoque:
Indy Lights:
Tom Wood Kentucky 2003 (No good photos, not sure)

F1:
Kubica Canada 2007

Destroyed roll bars:
F1: Diniz Nurburgring 1999
Indycar Dan Wheldon Vegas 2011

Got any more, or some photos of damaged/cracked/broken carbon chassis?

Let me add the Reynard F3000 from Tarso Marques to the list.
The monocoque was heavily damaged on the right side at the first lap accident in Pau 1995. I owned it at one stage.

Wasn´t there a Minardi in 1990 which front section was ripped off in an accident?
Same damage happened in 1988? to a F3000 Ralt from Massimo Monti at Monza.
None of the drivers was injured IIRC.

Also heavily damaged was the Prost F1 from Luciano Burti in Spa 2002.

BTW very interesting photo from de Cesaris Monaco crashed Rial. Never seen that before. Seems to me that there must have been something gone wrong in the production process of the monocoque.
Maybe there are some carbon fibre speciallist in this forum, who can give some more information about this.
Thanks

Edited by funformula, 16 May 2013 - 14:06.

[Doug Nye]

John Watson experienced the test pilot/crash dummy role so far as carbon-composite F1 chassis are concerned when he snapped his McLaren MP4/1 in half at Lesmo, Monza, during the 1981 Italian GP. Upon violent impact with the inside barrier the car's engine and rear end experienced traumatic amputation from the moulded tub, front end...and Wattie.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 16 May 2013 - 15:55.

[MLC]

Hi, i was trying to make a small list of broken carbon fibre monocoques in top racing series:

F1:
Jacques Laffite Brands 1986 -> http://f1.imgci.com/...S/4900/4971.jpg http://www.flickr.co...68853/lightbox/
Andrea de Cesaris Monaco 1988 http://www.grandprix...e...97&adi=9776
Berger Imola 1988 - http://ruerd.home.xs.../F1/f1db336.jpg
Nannini Kanada 1990
Donelly Jerez 1990
Ratzenberger Imola 1994 (chassis punctured)
Senna Imola 1994 (both sides of chassis broken, but bottom part ok.)
Schumacher Silverstone 1999
Sato Austria 2002 (moncoque punctured)
Panis Kanada 1997

Berger's accident at Imola was in 1989.

[bartez1000]

Berger's accident at Imola was in 1989.

Thanks, repaired.

Also heavily damaged was the Prost F1 from Luciano Burti in Spa 2002.

If you mean 2001, i belive that monocoque wasn't badly damaged.
Photo: http://pix.crash.net...t/360/21850.jpg Even the nosecone was in decent shape.

I recall reading about Massimo Monti in, Perry McCarthy's "Flat out Flat broke", but never found any pictures.
Another crash from book is AJ Foyt's Road America 1990. What what i read in "Rapid Response" by Stephen Olvey his nosecone got off when he was going through gravel trap, and then he hit dirt embankment. Dr Olvey wrote that he & his medical team made an "excavation" because driver's broken legs were under the dirt. Unfortunately no photos,
but at least an aftermatch. http://youtu.be/a4evYMgB0Oo?t=40m18s

John Watson experienced the test pilot/crash dummy role so far as carbon-composite F1 chassis are concerned when he snapped his McLaren MP4/1 in half at Lesmo, Monza, during the 1981 Italian GP.

Found a nice photo. Fuel Cell part rather cracked, although rest looks ok. Photo here: http://speautomotive...08/pdf/k/K3.pdf
In addition here: http://www.gef.es/Co...pdf/8070IMP.pdf is a picture of Zonta's damaged monocoque from brazil '99. He broke legs in that crash, because of suspension parts intrusion.

So, additions to list:

F1:
Frits Kroymans Laguna Seca Monterey Historics.

CART:
AJ Foyt Road America 1990 (photo maybe)

F3000
Tarso Marques Pau 1995
Massimo Monti Monza 1988

Edited by bartez1000, 16 May 2013 - 18:55.

[funformula]

If you mean 2001, i belive that monocoque wasn't badly damaged.
Photo: http://pix.crash.net...t/360/21850.jpg Even the nosecone was in decent shape.

I watched this monocoque two years ago. It has no major visible damages (like big holes etc.) but IIRC a big dent on the right side around the head rest area, so I guess it was beyond repair.

[funformula]

What about the crashed Simtek of Andrea Montermini in Barcelona 1994?
http://fc06.devianta...ory-d63yrpt.jpg

[Cargo]

not much salvageable Carbonfibre from the Mcnish Le Mans crash.




Alan walked away ...

Edited by Cargo, 16 May 2013 - 20:09.

[BRG]

not much salvageable Carbonfibre from the Mcnish Le Mans crash.

Nah, that'll polish out , no problem.

[Nick Planas]

Let me add the Reynard F3000 from Tarso Marques to the list.
The monocoque was heavily damaged on the right side at the first lap accident in Pau 1995. I owned it at one stage.

Wasn´t there a Minardi in 1990 which front section was ripped off in an accident?
Same damage happened in 1988? to a F3000 Ralt from Massimo Monti at Monza.
None of the drivers was injured IIRC.

Also heavily damaged was the Prost F1 from Luciano Burti in Spa 2002.

BTW very interesting photo from de Cesaris Monaco crashed Rial. Never seen that before. Seems to me that there must have been something gone wrong in the production process of the monocoque.
Maybe there are some carbon fibre speciallist in this forum, who can give some more information about this.
Thanks

I've never forgotten the shock of seeing that accident, and then my surprise when Wattie emerged unhurt. Thankfully, we've all got used to it now...

[Rob G]

Mark Dismore Indialapolis 1991
Phillippe Gache Indy 500 1992 http://www.documenti...sh91-283-29.jpg

You've got Dismore's photo linked to Gache's accident. I knew Dismore's crash was violent, but I didn't know his legs were exposed like that. Jeez.

[Twin Window]

A couple which spring to mind, both resulting from accidents at Brands Hatch; Johnny Cecotto's F1 Toleman TG184, 1984 British GP practice and Michel Trollé, F3000 Lola, 1988.

[DampMongoose]

What about Alex Caffi's practice crash at Monaco in 1991 in the Footwork? The other that I thought was Van der Drift at Brands Hatch when he hit the bridge at the start of the GP loop... although I'm presuming the Panoz Superleague cars are a carbon monocoque?

[bartez1000]

You've got Dismore's photo linked to Gache's accident. I knew Dismore's crash was violent, but I didn't know his legs were exposed like that. Jeez.

Thx, repaired.

What about Alex Caffi's practice crash at Monaco in 1991 in the Footwork? The other that I thought was Van der Drift at Brands Hatch when he hit the bridge at the start of the GP loop... although I'm presuming the Panoz Superleague cars are a carbon monocoque?

Yeah, Superligue monocoque was seriously cracked. Also roll bar is significantly tiled. http://colunistas.ig...after_crash.jpg

What about the crashed Simtek of Andrea Montermini in Barcelona 1994?
http://fc06.devianta...ory-d63yrpt.jpg

Thanks, added. It's quite strage crash. Front part of monocoque seems ok, but bottom is missing, and legs are visible.

A couple which spring to mind, both resulting from accidents at Brands Hatch; Johnny Cecotto's F1 Toleman TG184, 1984 British GP practice and Michel Trollé, F3000 Lola, 1988.

Have you got maybe some pictures for us to evaluate daamge?

I decided to add "Monocoque Punctured" & "Monocoque Cracked" class, and more photos. However, i think that adding Diniz isn't good idea, because his monocoque wasn't "heavily" damaged.I belive that in Racing there was many far too many irreparable damages incidents to count. Like Alonso Monaco 2010 or Liuzzi Brazil 2010.

Edited by bartez1000, 21 May 2013 - 16:18.

[f1steveuk]

I was thinking Tambay, Renault Monaco at Ste Devote, the suspension arm puncture the tube and then Patrick's leg.

[Collombin]

I was thinking Tambay, Renault Monaco at Ste Devote, the suspension arm puncture the tube and then Patrick's leg.

Warwick had a similar shunt in the previous round at Dijon. I remember footage of him slumped forwards eerily in the car, and he said afterwards that "the suspension broke, and come up through and done my leg" (I think that's verbatim).

[cheesy poofs]

Wasn´t there a Minardi in 1990 which front section was ripped off in an accident?
Same damage happened in 1988? to a F3000 Ralt from Massimo Monti at Monza.
None of the drivers was injured IIRC.

The Minardi went off at Acqua Minerale as it exited the corner and the front end was torn off at about the drivers knees if I recall correctly. The driver ( Pierluigi Martini) was lucky to escape with any serious injuries.

You can see the accident here: http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player
Jump to 23:00 in this YouTube clip.

As for the Massimo Monti crash at Monza, his car left the track at the first Lesmo, vaulted the barrier and went through an advertising board and shattered itself against a tree splitting the car in half! I've seen pics of the car in either Autosprint (Italy) or Auto Hebdo (France).

Edited by cheesy poofs, 23 May 2013 - 21:00.

[funformula]

The Minardi went off at Acqua Minerale as it exited the corner and the front end was torn off at about the drivers knees if I recall correctly. The driver was lucky to escape any injuries.

As for the Massimo Monti crash at Monza, his car left the track at the first Lesmo, vaulted the barrier and went through an advertising board and shattered itself against a tree splitting the car in half! I've seen pics of the car in either Autosprint (Italy) or Auto Hebdo (France).

Finally found a picture of the Minardi.
http://www.posterlou...h-pr273250.html

@bartez1000
To be accurate regarding the Tarso Marquez F3000, the monocoque was punctured rather than broken.

[funformula]

The Minardi went off at Acqua Minerale as it exited the corner and the front end was torn off at about the drivers knees if I recall correctly. The driver ( Pierluigi Martini) was lucky to escape with any serious injuries.

You can see the accident here: http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player
Jump to 23:00 in this YouTube clip.

Don´t get me wrong here...but brilliant footage of this accident. You can see in slow motion how Martini get himself prepared for the impact taking his hands off the wheel.

Edited by funformula, 23 May 2013 - 21:49.

[Zippel]

Didn't Arrows destroy a chassis or two at Spa 98, which ultimately began their journey into financial ruin?

[bartez1000]

The Minardi went off at Acqua Minerale as it exited the corner and the front end was torn off at about the drivers knees if I recall correctly. The driver ( Pierluigi Martini) was lucky to escape with any serious injuries.

You can see the accident here: http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player
Jump to 23:00 in this YouTube clip.

As for the Massimo Monti crash at Monza, his car left the track at the first Lesmo, vaulted the barrier and went through an advertising board and shattered itself against a tree splitting the car in half! I've seen pics of the car in either Autosprint (Italy) or Auto Hebdo (France).

Thanks, i haven't got any clue of that.

[bigears]

Thanks, i haven't got any clue of that.

I recall Fabien Giroix was involved in a tangle with Massimo Monti. Giroix suffered leg injuries and ended his single seater career. While Monti escaped serious injury. I remember there was an amazing photo of Monti stuck in the car when marshals was Woking around the car to free him in the 1988 F3000 yearbook.

[funformula]

Maybe slightly off topic but I´m still fascinated by the sight of de Cesaris crashed Rial http://www.grandprix...e...97&adi=9776

What makes me wonder is that Rial made 3 chassis of the ARC1 type and all of them were used at least once after the Monaco crash. (this is at least what my records say)
So the crashed chassis must have been repaired to race spec condition.
Is that kind of repair possible or even make sense regarding torsional stiffness of the monocoque?
I have read that chassis no.02 had problems with delamination around the front wishbone pick up points and therefore was withdrawn from the GP San Marino.
But the team managed somehow to cure the problem because this chassis was used again a few times during the year.

Maybe someone has more information about this or has knowledge in fabricating carbon fibre to give some insight in the process of repairing damaged monocoques?
This may be an interesting addition to the original theme of this thread.

Thanks

[bartez1000]

Yay! Managed to find some more.

Heavily damaged front of monocoque:

F1: 

Martin Brundle 1984 Dallas http://www.documenti...le_dallas84.jpg

F3000:

Michel Trolle 1988 Brands Hatch Practise http://www.snifferme...3/09/Trolle.jpg

Indycar:

Jeff Andretti 1992 Indy 500 http://www.documenti...-frames-ja2.jpg http://www.documenti...ames-jeff92.png  http://www.documenti...-frames-ja3.jpg

 

Also, in AUTOSPORT, issue from 22 August there was an article about Herbert's crash in 1988 F3000. 

 

At Brands Hatch that weekend, the accidents had begun during Friday free practice with a hefty shunt for Enrico Bertaggia at Paddock Hill Bend, when his Dallara 3087 turned sharp left into the tyrewall. Spectators looked on aghast, first concerned but then astonished as the Italian walked out of a monocoque that had opened like a tin can. The incredulous Italian sidestepped from the wreck, eyes widened at his miraculous deliverance. A day later, Michel Trolle was not so fortunate (see panel, page 63). The debate about the safety of F3000 cars had already started at the very first race of the year at Jerez, where the promising Steve Kempton broke his Ankles in the morning warm-up. It continued at Monza in June, when Fabien Giroix suffered severe leg injuries and Massimo Monti cartwheeled his Ralt through an advertising hoarding and into the trees beyond the first Lesmo corner. The accidents in 1988 were horrendous, and that no-one was killed during the season was nothing short of a miracle.

So, there might be 3 more intresting crashes (Bertaggia , Kempton , Giroix).  

[acf8181]

Indycar...

 

AF Foyt(nose),  Road america 1990

 

Rick Mears(nose), jovy marcelo(nose), hiro matsushita(hole), nelson piquet(nose) - indy500 practice 1992, mario andretti(nose) in race

 

Jacques Villeneuve (nose), hiro matsushita (fue cell area) Phonenix 1994

 

Christian Fittipaldi (nose),  Surfers paradise 1995?

 

Alessandro Zampedri (nose), indy 500 1996

 

Wheldons had a wishone puncture top of cockpit in 2011 as well as the rollhoop

[D-Type]

Presumably, even with the lightest of damage a carbon fibre tub has to be replaced as it wouldn't be practicable to autoclave a repair.

[backfire]

Johnny Cecotto, Toleman TG184 - 04 during practice for the British GP at Brands - destroyed front end.

[swede917]

Christian Fittipaldi's Swift 009.c chassis from Milwaukee May 29th 1998. The roll hoop from this chassis was removed and installed on Michael Andretti's car that he rolled at Mid-Ohio later that year.

 

 

 

 

[bartez1000]

Updated list again. Moreover I've found a quite intresting crash in f3000, in 2000: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kR1XT-7FggQ. T-bone crash with not so big speed, but monocoque has a clear, big hole in side. Note the minimal damage to nose, the spearing car had.