59 replies to this topic

[bourbon]

Well, McLaren would have with Hamilton, if they had the cars Red Bull had.

Hamilton is also a young gun though. I wouldn't say that Ricciardo has shown himself to be in that category.

I think that begs the question: are they looking for another young gun, or a driver who can develop into a champion (even a multichampion) over time? The latter takes time and nuturing.

Young guns are very rare, but if RBR keeps fervently looking for them, they will eventually uncover another diamond among the jewels. So it just depends on their MO.

Edited by bourbon, 24 May 2013 - 03:56.

[Cesc]

I think their program is shaping up to give 2 years for young drivers to meet the criteria.

If that is so, "RB young driver program" is a machine of burning young drivers careers....can we be sure that Alguersuari was not a future race winner with proper machinery? to me he was showing very good consistency given the lack of experience he had and the car he was driving. Can we assure that Vettel would have shine with the current Toro Rosso or the one that Jaime was driving? Vettel did it very well, but the Toro Rosso he drove had the chassis of the Red Bull and a very good (or better) engine, so it was as competitive as the Red Bull by then.

Maybe we would be talking like: "Do you remember Vettel, he seemed very fast but was fired after two years because he didn'y show the 'spark' that RB is looking for..."

[v@sh]

Question for everyone, if you were HM or in his position, what would be expecting DR or JEV to be doing right now this season to warrant a place in RB next year? It's always interesting since fans say they are better/worse than JA and SB but never give an indication of what is considered special. Given where the pace of the car is at right now, they both essentially have in front:

- 2 Ferraris, 2 Lotuses, 2 RBs, 2 Mercedes and the Force Indias and McLaren just ahead while roughly on par with Sauber.

So are fans expecting them to somehow get a podium before end of season or constantly get into the tail end of points?? Would be interesting to hear responses.

[ChiltonsCats]

They are not. They expect a spark from the drivers, not wins. Vettel was a normal young driver in 2008 until Valencia, then something clicked and he stepped up a gear consistently to the point he was outperforming the "alpha" red bull team consistently after Valencia. That's what they are looking for, the click, the progress in the driver. They are not looking for an STR to win a race (or to suddenly leapfrog RBR) they are looking for one of the drivers to show that, call it whatever you want ...

STR aren't good enough in comparison to the front running teams for those kind of performances right now...heck even in 2011 they weren't that good...they/you are expecting performances that even Vettel/Alonso/Hamilton could not possibly give with that car...

if you/they are waiting for that kind of performance then no driver, ever is likely to give you...no matter how good a driver you are, if you have a slow car you won't win races/get podiums, the gulf in pace thesedays is just too vast, really it's been like that since 2010 as well...you are making demands that might have been feasible (though even then they were exceptionally rare and needed a whole bunch of circumstances to work in your favour) in 2008/2009 and earlier, but in the cars they have now just aren't going to happen.

[ChiltonsCats]

Question for everyone, if you were HM or in his position, what would be expecting DR or JEV to be doing right now this season to warrant a place in RB next year? It's always interesting since fans say they are better/worse than JA and SB but never give an indication of what is considered special. Given where the pace of the car is at right now, they both essentially have in front:

- 2 Ferraris, 2 Lotuses, 2 RBs, 2 Mercedes and the Force Indias and McLaren just ahead while roughly on par with Sauber.

So are fans expecting them to somehow get a podium before end of season or constantly get into the tail end of points?? Would be interesting to hear responses.

I would be expecting them to be capable of about 6th/7th place at best in races where the car/setup is right for them to perform well, most races realistically I would say they should expect to be either just inside or outside the points.

they won't get a podium, yet alone a win barring some kind of insane set of circumstances, that much is certain.

Algesuari got 26 points with a fairly consistent points scoring run in the mid to second half of the season, so assuming that isn't good enough (despite the lack of pace the car has), then I suppose to really make an impact one of them needs to get about 40-50 points and maybe even a 5th place finish to truly show potential, you would also need them to considerably outperform their team-mate as well in doing that, Algesuari outperformed Buemi by 11 points and a few finishes, so you are looking at one of them say getting 50 points with a 5th place finish whilst the other gets 25 points or so with a best of 7th or 8th.

[Cesc]

I would be expecting them to be capable of about 6th/7th place at best in races where the car/setup is right for them to perform well, most races realistically I would say they should expect to be either just inside or outside the points.

they won't get a podium, yet alone a win barring some kind of insane set of circumstances, that much is certain.

Algesuari got 26 points with a fairly consistent points scoring run in the mid to second half of the season, so assuming that isn't good enough (despite the lack of pace the car has), then I suppose to really make an impact one of them needs to get about 40-50 points and maybe even a 5th place finish to truly show potential, you would also need them to considerably outperform their team-mate as well in doing that, Algesuari outperformed Buemi by 11 points and a few finishes, so you are looking at one of them say getting 50 points with a 5th place finish whilst the other gets 25 points or so with a best of 7th or 8th.

Well, I think only Alonso (because he has done it before with quite crap cars) would be able to score decent points (those 50 or so) with that car, but I was not expecting anything exceptional from the current TR line up and I was not expecting they would do it better than the previous one neither...

Again, Alguersuari showed consistency, specially in race pace. I think that is very valuable. If that was not good enough in such car...well, what then?

Edited by Cesc, 24 May 2013 - 07:02.

[Jimisgod]

Question for everyone, if you were HM or in his position, what would be expecting DR or JEV to be doing right now this season to warrant a place in RB next year? It's always interesting since fans say they are better/worse than JA and SB but never give an indication of what is considered special. Given where the pace of the car is at right now, they both essentially have in front:

- 2 Ferraris, 2 Lotuses, 2 RBs, 2 Mercedes and the Force Indias and McLaren just ahead while roughly on par with Sauber.

So are fans expecting them to somehow get a podium before end of season or constantly get into the tail end of points?? Would be interesting to hear responses.

A podium would probably cement them in the 2nd RBR seat. However that is very unlikely. I do think Dan is capable of pulling some Webber-like (at least, 2003-05 model Mark) qualifying magic and putting it up near the front, but the best race result I forsee possible is a 5th.

[ChiltonsCats]

Well, I think only Alonso (because he has done it before with quite crap cars) would be able to score decent points (those 50 or so) with that car, but I was not expecting anything exceptional from the current TR line up and I was not expecting they would do it better than the previous one neither...

Again, Alguersuari showed consistency, specially in race pace. I think that is very valuable. If that was not good enough in such car...well, what then?

I think only really WDC's like Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Kimi could really get that much out of the current STR car, even then they would struggle I expect to quite make the performances that some people here and in Red Bull seem to want from them.

[Rybo]

Question for everyone, if you were HM or in his position, what would be expecting DR or JEV to be doing right now this season to warrant a place in RB next year? It's always interesting since fans say they are better/worse than JA and SB but never give an indication of what is considered special. Given where the pace of the car is at right now, they both essentially have in front:

- 2 Ferraris, 2 Lotuses, 2 RBs, 2 Mercedes and the Force Indias and McLaren just ahead while roughly on par with Sauber.

So are fans expecting them to somehow get a podium before end of season or constantly get into the tail end of points?? Would be interesting to hear responses.

In a dry race with no retirements, to beat your team mate and those around you, tires and all.

[SpaMaster]

The Program only provides options for the F1 team, not the other way around i.e. F1 team exists to give drives to program drivers.

Edited by SpaMaster, 24 May 2013 - 16:12.