I only know about the first gen Audi A2 and the A8 from the 90`s or early 2000. I am actually bit of a fan of the A2.
Edited by MatsNorway, 31 May 2013 - 20:15.
Posted 31 May 2013 - 20:14
Edited by MatsNorway, 31 May 2013 - 20:15.
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Posted 31 May 2013 - 22:49
Posted 31 May 2013 - 23:07
MatsNorway, on May 31 2013, 21:14, said:
How many decently known cars out there is fully made in aluminium?
Posted 31 May 2013 - 23:33
Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:03
Edited by MatsNorway, 01 June 2013 - 08:08.
Posted 02 June 2013 - 01:39
Edited by Wuzak, 02 June 2013 - 01:40.
Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:48
Edited by Greg Locock, 02 June 2013 - 11:19.
Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:09
Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:26
Posted 02 June 2013 - 17:35
MatsNorway, on May 31 2013, 21:14, said:
How many decently known cars out there is fully made in aluminium?
I only know about the first gen Audi A2 and the A8 from the 90`s or early 2000. I am actually bit of a fan of the A2.
Lee Nicolle, on Jun 1 2013, 00:33, said:
I feel the NSX still had a steel backbone though the majority of the structure was alloy. A horrendously difficult car to repair. And I hope attracts the proper insurance premiums as a fairly minor crash will write it off as a road car.
Bolt on alloy panels are ofcourse a different scenario though are still way more expensive and in the case of MX5s not much lighter anyway. About 1.5 kilos. But a LOT more expensive.
Posted 02 June 2013 - 23:36
Greg Locock, on Jun 2 2013, 11:48, said:
Are you sure about Dauphines? A neighbour had one when I was young, and I raced against some too. They seemed to dent and repair like normal cars.Aston Martins were often aluminium body panels, as was early Rangerover, all proper Landrovers and the renault dauphin from the 1950s.
Posted 03 June 2013 - 00:44
Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:21
Lee Nicolle, on Jun 3 2013, 09:36, said:
No I'm not. I do remember that when BL were working on aluminium cars they bought a (non running and decrepit) 1950s French car as it was the only aluminium unitary bodied mass production car. I thought it was a Renault Dauphin but I know they were usually steel. Bit of a mystery.Are you sure about Dauphines?
Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:03
Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:49
SimonW, on Jun 3 2013, 14:03, said:
The new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport are both all aluminium - chassis and body panels. As are the Jaguar XJ and the F-type. The RR and RRS are each about 450kg lighter than their predecessors.
Simon
Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:45
Posted 03 June 2013 - 13:42
Posted 03 June 2013 - 14:11
Greg Locock, on Jun 2 2013, 21:21, said:
No I'm not. I do remember that when BL were working on aluminium cars they bought a (non running and decrepit) 1950s French car as it was the only aluminium unitary bodied mass production car. I thought it was a Renault Dauphin but I know they were usually steel. Bit of a mystery.
Posted 03 June 2013 - 21:17
7MGTEsup, on Jun 3 2013, 06:04, said:
Aluminium oxidise quite badly so I'm not sure how they treat it to stop this happening.
Posted 03 June 2013 - 21:31
Posted 03 June 2013 - 21:57
Posted 03 June 2013 - 22:32
Posted 04 June 2013 - 00:15
mariner, on Jun 3 2013, 17:31, said:
I remember being able to watch the road pass beneath us looking through the rust holes in the floorboards in ours.The Dauphine was very definitely NOt alu. It started as an all steel car and very rapidly become an iron oxide car. They were total rust buckets in UK weather.
Posted 04 June 2013 - 00:45
gruntguru, on Jun 3 2013, 02:18, said:
Probably 2/3 to 3/4. It makes me wonder when I see all this expensive material being used in cars today. Really how much weight do they really save? Modern steel is quite light and strong, yet easy to form.How much greater?
Posted 04 June 2013 - 00:47
Greg Locock, on Jun 3 2013, 23:32, said:
It does look like a Dauphine, though I bet was a lot more expensive.I'll settle for a Panhard Dyna Z. http://www.flickr.co...zil/4414731043/ looks about right
Rover had a long love affair with aluminium, partly driven in the early 50s by government restrictions on the use of steel, would you believe.
Posted 05 June 2013 - 14:54
7MGTEsup, on Jun 3 2013, 22:04, said:
Aluminium oxidise quite badly so I'm not sure how they treat it to stop this happening.
Edited by Joe Bosworth, 05 June 2013 - 14:54.
Posted 05 June 2013 - 15:35
Posted 05 June 2013 - 18:56
Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:53
Lee Nicolle, on Jun 4 2013, 02:45, said:
Probably 2/3 to 3/4. It makes me wonder when I see all this expensive material being used in cars today. Really how much weight do they really save? Modern steel is quite light and strong, yet easy to form.
As I stated before an [aftermarket] MX5 bonnet in steel was only marginally heavier than the original alloy. And sorry, no longer available.
Even back in the 70s when the McCormack Charger project was happening Chrysler stamped some panels from alloy for it, just skins ofcourse. They were lighter than the heavier guage steel ones in use at the time, though the weight saving was not huge. The loss when stamping was about 50% too. Fibreglass is lighter, though has to be thin. Carbon fibre or Kevlar a bit lighter again, though also quite expensive. And often shows the weave through the paint.
Posted 15 June 2013 - 13:30
Edited by saudoso, 15 June 2013 - 13:31.
Posted 15 June 2013 - 21:43
J. Edlund, on Jun 15 2013, 11:53, said:
when making motorcycle exhaust systems we use cold rolled 1.2mm mild steel as it forms easily and takes chrome very well. the other important attribute is its sound as aluminium and stainless add a high pitch overtone and sound tinny. copper is the best from a sound perspective but cost it too much. carbon fiber also sounds sreachingModern high strength steels are also quite difficult to form since they are not very ductile. Complex forms are generally impossible to make as coldformed steel will rather break than being formed.
Edited by malbear, 15 June 2013 - 21:47.
Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:04
J. Edlund, on Jun 15 2013, 20:53, said:
Modern high strength steels are also quite difficult to form since they are not very ductile. Complex forms are generally impossible to make as coldformed steel will rather break than being formed.
Posted 19 June 2013 - 00:01
Greg Locock, on Jun 16 2013, 03:04, said:
The joys of the motor industry. Some bean counter saves a few dollars by exporting such work overseas and the hands on experience with building, repairing and on occasion 'adjusting' the tooling costs far more in time and lost productivity.HSLA is around 500 N/mm2, and with tradenames like Extraform 500 you can guess that they are working hard to emphasise their ductility. admittedly compared with a decent steel at 1100 or more they are leaving a lot of meat on the plate, but compared with the usual recycled razor blades and toasters at 200 it is pretty good.
I know that tool design software for stampings is big bucks these days, one of the huge downsides from losing our toolrooms is that much of the expertise in die design walks out the door.
Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:40
Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:23
Greg Locock, on Jun 16 2013, 05:04, said:
HSLA is around 500 N/mm2, and with tradenames like Extraform 500 you can guess that they are working hard to emphasise their ductility. admittedly compared with a decent steel at 1100 or more they are leaving a lot of meat on the plate, but compared with the usual recycled razor blades and toasters at 200 it is pretty good.
I know that tool design software for stampings is big bucks these days, one of the huge downsides from losing our toolrooms is that much of the expertise in die design walks out the door.
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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:45
Edited by Terry Walker, 23 June 2013 - 12:50.
Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:26
Posted 28 June 2013 - 16:32
sportian, on Jun 28 2013, 12:26, said:
Audi R8 is made in aluminiun, right?
Edited by MatsNorway, 28 June 2013 - 16:33.
Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:23
Posted 29 June 2013 - 15:10
Edited by Rasputin, 29 June 2013 - 15:10.
Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:23
Rasputin, on Jun 29 2013, 08:10, said:
An interesting aspect when discussing materials is always to compare the stiffnees (modulus) over Density;
Martensitic Steel: Modulus = 207 E9 N/m^2, Density = 7800 kg/m^3, gives Stiffness over Density = 26.5 E6
Titanium: Modulus = 116 E9 N/m^2, Density = 4500 kg/m^3, gives Stiffness over Density = 25.8 E6
Aluminium: Modulus = 70 E9 N/m^2, Density = 2700 kg/m^3, gives Stiffness over Density = 25.9 E6
Magnesium: Modulus = 45 E9 N/m^2, Density = 1750 kg/m^3, gives Stiffness over Density = 25.7 E6
Interesting, eh?
Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:34
bigleagueslider, on Jul 1 2013, 07:23, said:
From an academic standpoint, factors like stiffness/density are indeed interesting. But the commercial automotive business is primarily concerned with other factors such as cost. Most production cars still use steel for the unibody structure and body panels. There are several reasons for this. First, the commodity price for steel is far more stable and predictable over time than other metals like aluminum. Second, it is currently much easier and cheaper to build a unibody from steel than from aluminum. Third, body panels made from steel tend to have better aesthetics than those made from aluminum or composite.
Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:53
bigleagueslider, on Jun 30 2013, 23:23, said:
Apart from the 'Vette, a few sports car roofs and a handful of exotics, I'm not familiar with any production composite panels (ignoring the "dentless" rubber panels on grocery-getters). From my limited perspective I find that statement a bit bewildering. Surely the sexiest cars on the planet aren't uglier for being made with composites?Third, body panels made from steel tend to have better aesthetics than those made from ... composite.
Posted 01 July 2013 - 13:04
Posted 01 July 2013 - 19:46