334 replies to this topic

[molpid]

And just because Hamilton doesn't like the brakes as much as his old ones, it doesn't mean he is "struggling" with them or that brakes are as good as broken.

No driver is ever 100% in tune with the car.

I don't mind Hamilton talking about his brake issues but people here are taking this and trying to make it sound as if he is racing around with no brakes.

Dude, the brakes are working good, he's just not getting the feel for them as of now. Why is this so hard to understand ? [And yeah he's struggling with them as commented post race]

it's even on Autosport frontpage

Edited by molpid, 11 June 2013 - 14:55.

[Freung]

Pay attention. He's never said he has a car with poor brakes, he said he has a problem with feel and confidence.

This is another instance of your poor technical and racing understanding leading to your writing of posts that are antagonizing or just plain wrong.

Feel and confidence cost the final tenths of performance. Mechanical problems experienced by Kimi can cost seconds.

I agree,its all about standards..Really dont think many people appreciate the differences very subtle settings can make where this type of racing is concerned.!

[Freung]

And just because Hamilton doesn't like the brakes as much as his old ones, it doesn't mean he is "struggling" with them or that brakes are as good as broken.

No driver is ever 100% in tune with the car.

I don't mind Hamilton talking about his brake issues but people here are taking this and trying to make it sound as if he is racing around with no brakes.

Maybe you are paying attention to the wrong posters.

[schumimercamg]

And just because Hamilton doesn't like the brakes as much as his old ones, it doesn't mean he is "struggling" with them or that brakes are as good as broken.

No driver is ever 100% in tune with the car.

I don't mind Hamilton talking about his brake issues but people here are taking this and trying to make it sound as if he is racing around with no brakes.

I'm sorry, I don't recall myself stating that Hamilton is running around with no brakes. In fact I believe I said it would cost him at most tenths but as we know in this sport tenths can count for a lot.

[stanga]

That's what this whole saga has achieved, I reckon for months and years to come each time Hamilton loses a battle, doesn't manage an overtake it will go "oh, if only he had the brakes from his McLaren days...."

Who's said this?

Another strawman waving exercise. So tired, predictable and not a little sad.

[MortenF1]

There was no visible braking issues for Hamilton in the race, that is laughable.

And as as65p said, if it was that visible he wouldn't be anywhere near the podium.

As someone has already asked before, how do you reckon it should look like on TV?

[zippythecat]

Not sure how Hamilton can be having a "feel" issue with his brakes. If a feature article in this month's F1 Racing is to be believed, his established style is to treat the brake pedal as an on/off switch.

Edited by zippythecat, 11 June 2013 - 15:36.

[EvanRainer]

As someone has already asked before, how do you reckon it should look like on TV?

How do you reckon it should look? My point was that there was no visible issues with Hamilton during the Canada race. Some people claim there was and to do so is laughable.

Someone even claimed he will provide proof. Eagerly waiting for that.

[EvanRainer]

I'm sorry, I don't recall myself stating that Hamilton is running around with no brakes. In fact I believe I said it would cost him at most tenths but as we know in this sport tenths can count for a lot.

How do you know that it would cost him anything?

This is exactly what we are talking about. You take Hamilton talking about his brake issues and immediately claim that it makes him X amount slower.

[P123]

I think both sides are over reacting.

Hamilton is still working towards being fully comfortable with the brake setup on the Merc. That's about it. It's not really possible to quantify what time it may be costing him.

[EvanRainer]

I think both sides are over reacting.

Hamilton is still working towards being fully comfortable with the brake setup on the Merc. That's about it. It's not really possible to quantify what time it may be costing him.

I agree. Though I can't accept people telling me *I* am making a big deal of this while we are in an 8 page thread over this.

[schumimercamg]

How do you know that it would cost him anything?

This is exactly what we are talking about. You take Hamilton talking about his brake issues and immediately claim that it makes him X amount slower.

I'm not trying to claim it makes him x amount slower!! I'm not even a Hamilton fan, just a racing enthusiast with some experience of driving high downforce single seaters.

What I actually said was that feel or confidence issues LIKE those that Hamilton is describing usually only cost a few tenths. BUT, a few tenths in f1 is a lot.

Please read and understand my posts better.

[halifaxf1fan]

I'm sorry, I don't recall myself stating that Hamilton is running around with no brakes. In fact I believe I said it would cost him at most tenths but as we know in this sport tenths can count for a lot.

This whole premise that the Mercedes has brake issues and is costing performance/laptime is ridiculous. This is a car that has been on pole position four times in seven races this season! And so far the only 'evidence' of it is that Rosberg over three races outqualified Hamilton. What a coincidence that Hamilton suddenly comes down with 'brake confidence issues'.

Hamiltons performance in Montreal pretty much puts a nail in the coffin for this argument. If a brake issue was going to show up anywhere it would have done so last weekend but instead we saw Hamilton lap most of the field and land on the podium! Earlier in this thread I saw Brawn himself quoted saying weren't going to modify the brakes for the balance of the season - he knows there isn't a problem with the brakes.

[stanga]

This whole premise that the Mercedes has brake issues and is costing performance/laptime is ridiculous.

Which is why virtually no-one is claiming it is a problem with the car; just that maybe, just mayb,e a lack of confidence in the feel from the brakes might be impeding performance in some unquantifiable way.

Calm down dear.

[MortenF1]

How do you reckon it should look? My point was that there was no visible issues with Hamilton during the Canada race. Some people claim there was and to do so is laughable.

Someone even claimed he will provide proof. Eagerly waiting for that.

An issue with brake feel will never be visible on TV.

[EvanRainer]

An issue with brake feel will never be visible on TV.

I don't necessarily disagree but why are you telling me? I am not the one claiming that there was a visible issue with Hamilton's braking during the race.

[EvanRainer]

I'm not trying to claim it makes him x amount slower!! I'm not even a Hamilton fan, just a racing enthusiast with some experience of driving high downforce single seaters.

What I actually said was that feel or confidence issues LIKE those that Hamilton is describing usually only cost a few tenths. BUT, a few tenths in f1 is a lot.

Please read and understand my posts better.

I don't disagree that not working the brakes the way you like will make you slower, that is obvious.

The point is that too big of a deal is being made out of what Hamilton said. There is no way he is having serious feel or confidence issues with the brakes that's the whole point. And I saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary in terms of what you would expect in the Montreal GP both in terms of his driving and in terms of result.

[MortenF1]

I don't necessarily disagree but why are you telling me? I am not the one claiming that there was a visible issue with Hamilton's braking during the race.

I just wanted to make the point that no-one really, can claim he either have or haven't got an issue with brakes based on TV-pics.
Wasn't trying to wind you up.

[Fox1]

I think both sides are over reacting.

No need to placate. One side is clearly over reacting.

This whole premise that the Mercedes has brake issues and is costing performance/laptime is ridiculous. This is a car that has been on pole position four times in seven races this season! And so far the only 'evidence' of it is that Rosberg over three races outqualified Hamilton. What a coincidence that Hamilton suddenly comes down with 'brake confidence issues'.

Hamiltons performance in Montreal pretty much puts a nail in the coffin for this argument. If a brake issue was going to show up anywhere it would have done so last weekend but instead we saw Hamilton lap most of the field and land on the podium! Earlier in this thread I saw Brawn himself quoted saying weren't going to modify the brakes for the balance of the season - he knows there isn't a problem with the brakes.

I'm with you on this. I'd much rather take your and EvanRainer's opinion on pedal feel of the WO4, than the word of the guy who's actually driving the racecar.

Hard to take you guys seriously TBH.

[boldhakka]

Hamilton seems to suggest that he has trouble with confidence under braking. That doesn't necessarily mean the brakes themselves are the problem (I.e need replacing or a different manufacturer). It could be the FRIC suspension that's messing with his head and making it counter-intuitive under braking, thus not giving him the confidence. I think it's the general behavior of the car under braking that's the problem for him, not the brakes themselves.

So the thread title itself is wrong, IMO.

Edited by boldhakka, 11 June 2013 - 16:53.

[schumimercamg]

This whole premise that the Mercedes has brake issues and is costing performance/laptime is ridiculous. This is a car that has been on pole position four times in seven races this season! And so far the only 'evidence' of it is that Rosberg over three races outqualified Hamilton. What a coincidence that Hamilton suddenly comes down with 'brake confidence issues'.

Hamiltons performance in Montreal pretty much puts a nail in the coffin for this argument. If a brake issue was going to show up anywhere it would have done so last weekend but instead we saw Hamilton lap most of the field and land on the podium! Earlier in this thread I saw Brawn himself quoted saying weren't going to modify the brakes for the balance of the season - he knows there isn't a problem with the brakes.

Good god you still don't get it. No one is saying the things that you are claiming they are. I'm done arguing with you. To your credit I think this is a personal intelligence/understanding issue rather than you deliberately being obtuse.

[schumimercamg]

Hamilton seems to suggest that he has trouble with confidence under braking. That doesn't necessarily mean the brakes themselves are the problem (I.e need replacing or a different manufacturer). It could be the FRIC suspension that's messing with his head and making it counter-intuitive under braking, thus not giving him the confidence. I think it's the general behavior of the car under braking that's the problem for him, not the brakes themselves.

So the thread title itself is wrong, IMO.

You could well be right on this. There is certainly nothing wrong with the functionality of the brakes this issue is with their interaction with the rest of the car and how this reacts with hams driving.

[EvanRainer]

No need to placate. One side is clearly over reacting.



I'm with you on this. I'd much rather take your and EvanRainer's opinion on pedal feel of the WO4, than the word of the guy who's actually driving the racecar.

Hard to take you guys seriously TBH.

Wow, seriously? Did you even bother to understand what my opinion is?

[halifaxf1fan]

You could well be right on this. There is certainly nothing wrong with the functionality of the brakes this issue is with their interaction with the rest of the car and how this reacts with hams driving.

Now the issue is moving from the brakes to the rest of the car! This is priceless.

The problem is that Hamilton was beaten three times in a row to pole positions by Rosberg and he came up with a bogus excuse.

Where is there any evidence of 'braking issues'?

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 11 June 2013 - 17:40.

[robefc]

I don't disagree that not working the brakes the way you like will make you slower, that is obvious.

The point is that too big of a deal is being made out of what Hamilton said. There is no way he is having serious feel or confidence issues with the brakes that's the whole point. And I saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary in terms of what you would expect in the Montreal GP both in terms of his driving and in terms of result.

I think he is having massive issues...it's just that he is awesomely adaptable so is there or thereabouts with Nico anyway

In all seriousness I don't understand what the fuss is about, Lewis reckons he isn't as confident on the brakes in this car as he is usually and says he's never had that issue before, where's the controversy?

[robefc]

Now the issue is moving from the brakes to the rest of the car! This is priceless.

The problem is that Hamilton was beaten three times in a row to pole positions by Rosberg and he came up with a bogus excuse.

Where is there any evidence of 'braking issues'?

What evidence could possibly be presented to back his claim up?

[schumimercamg]

Now the issue is moving from the brakes to the rest of the car! This is priceless.

The problem is that Hamilton was beaten three times in a row to pole positions by Rosberg and he came up with a bogus excuse.

Where is there any evidence of 'braking issues'?

It's conclusive. You are just genuinely thick. Braking issues encompasses not only pedal feel but feel of the car under braking. I think you need to go and take up a sport you understand.

[FastnLoud]

It's conclusive. You are just genuinely thick. Braking issues encompasses not only pedal feel but feel of the car under braking. I think you need to go and take up a sport you understand.

I wouldn't say he was thick as that is not a very nice thing to say, alot of people just don't like Hamilton doing well and when he does it hurts. If these people are British then it's even more embarrassing as we should support all British drivers.

Don't reply, just hit the ignore button

[halifaxf1fan]

It's conclusive. You are just genuinely thick. Braking issues encompasses not only pedal feel but feel of the car under braking. I think you need to go and take up a sport you understand.

Yes but in this case there is no sign of a braking issue in the first place!

[schumimercamg]

Yes but in this case there is no sign of a braking issue in the first place!

No none at all. Apart from the guy who drives the car saying he's having trouble under braking.

[halifaxf1fan]

What evidence could possibly be presented to back his claim up?

He could tweet his telemetry compared to Rosbergs but that probably isn't recommended!

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 11 June 2013 - 20:02.

[as65p]

Who's said this?

Another strawman waving exercise. So tired, predictable and not a little sad.

The day you'll add anything other than crying about others posts to a thread I'll buy you a sixpack. Promise. I'll even send it all over the world wherever you live.

[PurpleHam]

Yes but in this case there is no sign of a braking issue in the first place!

You just hate Hamilton, that's all you are in it for, I've seen you post time and time again, just dig after dig.

He spends 6 years at Mclaren using a customized C.I brake set up, he moves to Merc and has to use a Brembo set up.

How many drivers would use both those systems and prefer one over the other, all would have a preference.

Its not hard to understand that he has a problem driving as he did at Mclaren because he has had to use Rosberg's preferred Brembo setup.

He used C.I this week apparently, and look how he performed next to his team mate, even if he's allowed to keep the C.I system, it may take a while to get it bedded in and setup on the car properly and to his liking, they also have to be careful so that it does not add to the Deg of the rears too much which is why he has not been able to use it before.

[Peter Perfect]

You just hate Hamilton, that's all you are in it for, I've seen you post time and time again, just dig after dig.

He spends 6 years at Mclaren using a customized C.I brake set up, he moves to Merc and has to use a Brembo set up.

How many drivers would use both those systems and prefer one over the other, all would have a preference.

Its not hard to understand that he has a problem driving as he did at Mclaren because he has had to use Rosberg's preferred Brembo setup.

He used C.I this week apparently, and look how he performed next to his team mate, even if he's allowed to keep the C.I system, it may take a while to get it bedded in and setup on the car properly and to his liking, they also have to be careful so that it does not add to the Deg of the rears too much which is why he has not been able to use it before.

<forehead_slap>If only we'd realised this last year!</forehead_slap>

[SophieB]

The way you are talking to each other is depressing and the discussion isn't getting anywhere, is it? In the likely absence of any new info from Hamilton or the team for a while, I'm closing this for now. If any significant new information on the brakes issues should happen to arise before the next race, the thread will be considered for re-opening.