168 replies to this topic

[Forma1]

I am really interested in a few questions. Even if have been a hardcore motorsport fan, I follow about 22 series of the world's auto- and motorsport, I sometimes find it embarassing what goes around in US racing.
The US American racing seems to be way different to the one we can experience with European attitude or to be honest to racing of any other part of the word. I am just watching this weekend's Detroit race. People always complain about one single safety car peiord in F1, but what would they do watching an Indy Car race?
To be honest, even for me it's getting boring. Why the hell do so talented drivers in Indy run into the wall and into each other every second minute? Haven't counted, but I assume we had four cautions over the course of the first 25 laps. It makes everything a lottery. Can you enjoy this kind of racing?
What about the oval tracks?

[HighPlainsDrifter]

American racing generally has higher quality drivers racing in their series so i find American racing better to watch.

[Kobasmashi]

American racing generally has higher quality drivers racing in their series so i find American racing better to watch.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

The Indy 500 is the worlds biggest motor race, even Jim Clark realized this.

Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan, Danica Patrick ... nuff said

[Kobasmashi]

The Indy 500 is the worlds biggest motor race, even Jim Clark realized this.

Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan, Danica Patrick ... nuff said

The Indy 500 has not been the world's biggest motor race for a long time, the Monaco GP and even probably the Daytona 500 are bigger. And since Mansell and Piquet (who were both well past their primes, and Mansell still won the title in his only season), have any top F1 drivers entered an Indy 500? Whereas when you look at the stunning track record of Sebastian Bourdais in F1.... In terms of driving standards the ALMS is probably well above today's indycar, if you want to look at top US series, the indycars on street tracks are just embarrassing

[klyster]

i think he/she's taking the piss...

[Kobasmashi]

i think he/she's taking the piss...

I hope so, I'm feeling very grumpy this morning and that got to me

[Cool Beans]

[mnmracer]

The Indy 500 is the worlds biggest motor race, even Jim Clark realized this.

Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan, Danica Patrick ... nuff said

Don't forget American champions Sebastian Bourdais, Cristiano da Matta and Alex Zanardi.

[Fulcrum]

Don't forget American champions Sebastian Bourdais, Cristiano da Matta and Alex Zanardi.

They were CC chamipons which was an world series not american championship.

[mnmracer]

They were CC chamipons which was an world series not american championship.

only in name
the occasional single race in Australia and 4 or so European races in 10+ years make it as much a world series as the world series of baseball.

[Diablobb81]

You know what they say about stones and glass houses. Remember Monaco when talking about Detroit (where both races were great fun).

[Fulcrum]

only in name
the occasional single race in Australia and 4 or so European races in 10+ years make it as much a world series as the world series of baseball.

The F1 was World Championship only in name when day had only one race outside of Europe which race wasn't an F1 race?

Edited by Fulcrum, 06 June 2013 - 09:06.

[noikeee]

I respect the American scene, the professionalism and ability of teams and drivers there, and understand people can be very passionate about it, but personally I feel much as the OP: I've tried to enjoy Indycar and Nascar races on ovals but just can't, they feel boring to me. And the constant pace cars really do put me off as well, winning seems as much of a fuel lottery as a test of speed and skill.

Puzzlingly the few races on street and permanent circuits don't really excite me much neither - I think it's probably because I don't relate to most of the drivers, and there's always a handful of pace cars as well.

[Sakae]

No on the first count, and No on the second count. God knows I tried; NASCAR (even attended in person inaugural Indy 400), IRL, but no. F1 is diametrically different, and my brain is too lazy to switch. Large numbers of cheap overtakes is just as boring as no overtake at all.

What I used to watch and like was the old Indy racing from times when Alex Zanardi, Al Unser, Andretti, Fittipaldi and others were racing - that was actually very nice. Notwithstanding that Paul Page was also pain in very specific body-place to listen with his waving American flag every five minutes, but racing was good. I was actually there when Mercedes run Indy for Penske; just perfect day, but then George had the idea, and it all has died for me... (Even recall JV to T-bone a guy on the oval).

Edited by Sakae, 06 June 2013 - 10:06.

[InvertedLift]

I absolutely can't get into oval racing as much as I try. It just bores me.

However, Sprint cup circuit races are always pretty good and the Nationwide race at Montreal is just about as good as racing gets (even though it isn't a particularly high skill level).

[motorhead]

American racing generally has higher quality drivers racing in their series so i find American racing better to watch.

Talking about generally higher quality

1993 Michael Andretti a CART legend joined Mclaren, got fired during the season becouse of lousy performances
1993 Nigel Mansell a F1 legend joined Andretti´s ex team in CARTS and won championship in his first year

[Victor_RO]

Used to mock American racing fiercely a few years ago. Now... I don't enjoy it in the same way that I do with F1 and endurance racing, but I understand and respect its appeal and have been following it more and more recently. There are still many intricacies in oval racing that need to be followed and understood to properly appreciate what is actually going on. Not exactly a fan of Nascar, phantom yellows and "rubbin' is racin'" is still a street too far for me, but I enjoy Indycar on ovals, and not all ovals are the same or encourage the same style of racing; there's still variety among ovals if we ignore the cookie-cutters, not on a par with road courses, but some variety nonetheless.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well it's not that straight a comparison but why worry about facts.

If you put F1 cars on a track like Detroit you'd have much the same result. Possibly slightly less safety car periods because they'd have more cranes.

But you'd never have a race there because the 'best drivers in the world' will cry for months that there were bumps on the race track.

Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 06 June 2013 - 10:48.

[Sakae]

Well it's not that straight a comparison but why worry about facts.

If you put F1 cars on a track like Detroit you'd have much the same result. Possibly slightly less safety car periods because they'd have more cranes.

But you'd never have a race there because the 'best drivers in the world' will cry for months that there were bumps on the race track.

1988 Detroit track actually physically felt apart; it was not just whining of one or two guys.

[PayasYouRace]

I think the poll options are a bit loaded so I won't vote.

I've always loved both European style racing and American style racing. Each have their own merits and downsides too. I started properly watching both F1 and Indycar at about the same time (1996) and have always had a good appreciation for both.

Still can't get on with NASCAR. I find that too "American" and really only watch it with friends to laugh at it. The main series I follow are F1, Indycar and the BTCC, so I'm not really favouring one side of the Atlantic over the other.

[Ross Stonefeld]

1988 Detroit track actually physically felt apart; it was not just whining of one or two guys.

When tracks actually fall apart that's a valid complaint Not "oh god, the pavement isnt perfect!" or "eww, kerbs"

[Seanspeed]

Theoretically, I could enjoy an oval race. One that was mostly free of caution periods, was only 1/2 the distance and the drivers didn't have grudge matches at 180mph surrounded by others trying to have a clean race. It also needs to be at least a 1 mile oval as the short ovals really do make it look like the stereotypical 'running in circles' joke that some people say. And none of the superspeedway stuff, either. Pack/lane racing is such a lottery half the time.

I think the caution periods really do ruin it, and even IndyCar for me. The 2nd Detroit race this past weekend was extreme even for IndyCar, to be fair, but yea, I dont like strategies being a roll of the dice based on caution periods and fuel saving.

[holiday]

There is much talk about the limitations of oval racing, but processional racing on f1 tracks is hardly more entertaining.

[Ross Stonefeld]

IT'S PURE.

Like that fancy water you get in bottles. That comes from virgin mountains.

[JRizzle86]

American racing generally has higher quality drivers racing in their series so i find American racing better to watch.

Can of worms

[jonpollak]

I am really interested in a few questions. Even if have been a hardcore motorsport fan, I follow about 22 series of the world's auto- and motorsport, I sometimes find it embarassing what goes around in US racing.
The US American racing seems to be way different to the one we can experience with European attitude or to be honest to racing of any other part of the word. I am just watching this weekend's Detroit race. People always complain about one single safety car peiord in F1, but what would they do watching an Indy Car race?
To be honest, even for me it's getting boring. Why the hell do so talented drivers in Indy run into the wall and into each other every second minute? Haven't counted, but I assume we had four cautions over the course of the first 25 laps. It makes everything a lottery. Can you enjoy this kind of racing?
What about the oval tracks?

Dear Forma1,
If you don't mind...
To find out how you make these assertions,I am really interested in your cultural background.
Where are you from and how old are you?
Jp

[Red17]

I am really interested in a few questions. Even if have been a hardcore motorsport fan, I follow about 22 series of the world's auto- and motorsport, I sometimes find it embarassing what goes around in US racing.
The US American racing seems to be way different to the one we can experience with European attitude or to be honest to racing of any other part of the word. I am just watching this weekend's Detroit race. People always complain about one single safety car peiord in F1, but what would they do watching an Indy Car race?
To be honest, even for me it's getting boring. Why the hell do so talented drivers in Indy run into the wall and into each other every second minute? Haven't counted, but I assume we had four cautions over the course of the first 25 laps. It makes everything a lottery. Can you enjoy this kind of racing?
What about the oval tracks?

I take you never watched a GP2 race in the last 2 or 3 years...


Nothing personal against your question, but it's like comparing apples to oranges. Sure some people like oranges better than apples, but it's not the same fruit, not even the same family fruit!

Basic question is this: europeans got rid of oval racing after WW2, americans kept on racing in ovals. Americans like entertainment, europeans don't like too much entertainment.

On ovals. Ovals race different from road courses, so cars and driving styles are going to be different. Go watch the Nascar race in Sonoma last year and tell me how it is different from the WTCC, BTCC or any other touring car race. There is very little difference when you place the cars on common ground.

Entertainment, I give you a point that many times I felt Nascar throws yellows just to bunch up the field. But it's their rules, much the same as we have had safety cars on track in Formula 1 just because it started raining.

Caution free racing. Caution free racing is a fun subject. If your favourite driver wins with more 1 lap than anyone else its' fun, for all others it's a borefest, if racing is chaotic but your guy wins at the end it's a good racing, for all others it's a mess. After many years I gave up, no scenario will make everyone happy.

As for crashes, keep in mind that in must ovals speeds are way higher, so you are bound to have more crashes, add that to the typical Nascar style of staying close and the odds of big wrecks go sky high. Fights and other scandals are considered part of the show. Ironically, Nascar seems to have harsher penalties for technical infractions and teams don't spend half a season inventing a new type of hole that looks like a hole, works like a hole but it's technically not a hole!

There is a lot of good american racing around, personally I think dirt oval racing is THE american type of oval racing.
In europe we do have speedway racing on bikes on dirt, grass and ice. Personally i think the examples you took are a bit extreme. Indycar is rebulding itself after a literal civil war that almost killed open wheel racing. Nascar has a bit of a random yellow fever and it takes a while to figure out.

But in the end it's all racing, none of them it's perfect. It's a personal thing, I just focus on the track action, if I enjoyed it, it's good. But what I enjoy may not be enjoyable for others.

[Collombin]

The Indy 500 is the worlds biggest motor race, even Jim Clark realized this.

I didn't think you could top yesterday's post about the "definitive" fastest 10 drivers of all time list that included Brabham and Jones, yet with no mention of, for example, Ascari, Moss or Peterson, but a couple in this thread have topped it.

Clark did not think Indy was the biggest, or most important, or most challenging race in the world - merely the richest.

To the topic at hand, I much prefer watching American oval racing and have an expensive obsession with its history even over and above F1 and European motorsport - this despite never having been within 3,000 miles of the USA. The nature of the actual racing, the speeds involved, the glorious variety of machinery and events (road races, dirt racing, hillclimbs, board tracks, small ovals, superspeedways etc) that have featured in top flight US racing over the years, not to mention the many colourful characters that have taken part, just have me hooked. I'm just talking open wheel though - never watched a NASCAR race in my life.

For all my love of US open wheel racing though, the contention that it contains (or ever did contain) drivers of a superior calibre to that of F1 is utterly ludicrous and myopic - how can a talent pool taken from just 1 country have a higher level of talent than a pool taken from all the rest of the world put together? It's motorsport, not baseball. Yes, I know there are and have been many foreign drivers in US racing, but never the cream of the crop (except in the 60s when those drivers were also involved in F1 at the same time).

The Indy 500 is a shadow of its former self (look up the 1967 starting field and drool), but is still the race of the year I most look forward to. The Monaco GP is a close second.

Imagine my annoyance then when the BBC showed the Monaco race at exactly the same time that Indy was on

[Beamer]

Each has got it's own merit. There's a lot of european racing I don't watch either. Basically any endurance series bores the hell out of me. Ovals are boring to watch on TV, but from the grandstands it is cool to watch. The speed just doesn't translate to tv. I drove on small ovals (dirt mainly) in my days, and it is great fun, it's defenitely not just going round in circles.

Being good in one series doesn't always translate to antoher. From open-wheel to tin-top, or vice versa, is always difficult. Just look at F1 drivers moving to DTM or WTCC. No guarantee for success. Or JPM to Nascar for that matter.

I don't follow nascar, but I won't dissmiss the drivers. It's a huge business so it attracts a lot of talent. So like it or not, the drivers competing are probably the best in their class. As for Indy... That really isn't what it used to be. Not because of the rulebook, or safety cars or whatever... It's just not big enough to attract top open wheel talent. And that's a shame. It was great in the 90's with JV, JPM, DF. etc. Hope they will get themselves sorted out Would be real easy for them to beat F1 in terms of speed (groundeffects, bigger engines, better tyres, extra turbo's, whatever) maybe that would bring something.... That and if they could just lure some (at least kind of) big names from F1 they might get back on track again. But i don't see that happening...

[W154]

Don't forget American champions Sebastian Bourdais, Cristiano da Matta and Alex Zanardi.

.....and Mario, Dan, Phil, AJ, Mark, Richie, Gilles, Jacques

[teejay]

Talking about generally higher quality

1993 Michael Andretti a CART legend joined Mclaren, got fired during the season becouse of lousy performances
1993 Nigel Mansell a F1 legend joined Andretti´s ex team in CARTS and won championship in his first year

Michael wasnt dedicated enough, in a McLaren team struggling to stay competitive throwing their entire will at Senna to make him stay

Mansell walked into the best team and car combo.

This is a whole thread in itself but that statement proves nothing.

Michael was bloody good, just not dedicated enough.

[Forma1]

Dear Forma1,
If you don't mind...
To find out how you make these assertions,I am really interested in your cultural background.
Where are you from and how old are you?
Jp

I am 22 years old, mathematican. Maybe I chose the wrong word to express what I think bout it. I just wanted to highlight the fact it is so frustrating so many driver's mistakes ruin the races. Anyway, I would love IndyCar, that's why I've been following it for a while. So you could substitute it with the word frustrating.

[Sakae]

Some memorables - that stuck with me for decades

Unser & son v. Andretti & son, grandsons... American racing epic

(Angry) Fittipaldi on Mansell - Nigell used my car as brakes; no brains, just dives in, hoping they all move out of the way (ehmm, sounds like someone we know today, but nevermind)

Unser on Zanardi - he can be send to back, but always somehow he make his way to the front

Michael A. on Zanardi - yeah, he bulldozer his way through... (and so he did, but it was something to watch)

__________________

One has to love Alex, regardless for whom you actually were rooting. Affable Italian gladiator of American racing.

[Forma1]

I take you never watched a GP2 race in the last 2 or 3 years...


Nothing personal against your question, but it's like comparing apples to oranges. Sure some people like oranges better than apples, but it's not the same fruit, not even the same family fruit!

Basic question is this: europeans got rid of oval racing after WW2, americans kept on racing in ovals. Americans like entertainment, europeans don't like too much entertainment.

On ovals. Ovals race different from road courses, so cars and driving styles are going to be different. Go watch the Nascar race in Sonoma last year and tell me how it is different from the WTCC, BTCC or any other touring car race. There is very little difference when you place the cars on common ground.

Entertainment, I give you a point that many times I felt Nascar throws yellows just to bunch up the field. But it's their rules, much the same as we have had safety cars on track in Formula 1 just because it started raining.

Caution free racing. Caution free racing is a fun subject. If your favourite driver wins with more 1 lap than anyone else its' fun, for all others it's a borefest, if racing is chaotic but your guy wins at the end it's a good racing, for all others it's a mess. After many years I gave up, no scenario will make everyone happy.

As for crashes, keep in mind that in must ovals speeds are way higher, so you are bound to have more crashes, add that to the typical Nascar style of staying close and the odds of big wrecks go sky high. Fights and other scandals are considered part of the show. Ironically, Nascar seems to have harsher penalties for technical infractions and teams don't spend half a season inventing a new type of hole that looks like a hole, works like a hole but it's technically not a hole!

There is a lot of good american racing around, personally I think dirt oval racing is THE american type of oval racing.
In europe we do have speedway racing on bikes on dirt, grass and ice. Personally i think the examples you took are a bit extreme. Indycar is rebulding itself after a literal civil war that almost killed open wheel racing. Nascar has a bit of a random yellow fever and it takes a while to figure out.

But in the end it's all racing, none of them it's perfect. It's a personal thing, I just focus on the track action, if I enjoyed it, it's good. But what I enjoy may not be enjoyable for others.

I never really faild to watch GP2 races in recent years. I know everyone is pointing out at Cecotto with his manoeuvres at Barcelona and at Monaco around the first corner. Problem is that IndyCar drivers have managed to drive into the wall on his own fault, they have misjudged braking points or thottle input. As I said it was so frustrating the race was underway and someone managed to crash into the wall, then two laps on race mode, than a crash again and so on.

[greenman]

This year I'm enjoying Indycar FAR more than F1, so I guess my answer is yes on both accounts - YES, I like oval racing (I would say that my favourite 2012 races in general were ovals - Indy and Fontana, and I missed Texas which was apparently an awesome one as well), and YES, I am able to enjoy a race with "millions of pace car" (I don't like the way you phrased your question, but whatever).
I'm not saying it doesn't get unfair - I think Conway deserved the second victory and was dealt a shitty hand with all the yellows, and I felt bad for Power last year on couple of occasions but especially in Baltimore where he lost a chance at a championship (at that race) because of that.

Still... It's something they know is bound to happen, and that there is a chance of happening more than once, so the whole strategy is often based around the possibility of that. It is unpredictable, but ultimately I don't think it's often that a person who wins didn't deserve it. Mostly I would say it's just different culture of racing and race-watching. In the US racing the unpredictability and drivers making the most of the unpredictable situations is always gonna be a part of the game.

BTW this mostly relates to Indycar, I tried NASCAR last year but I was put off by some things.. I think it's mostly the length of the races, really... I'll still be watching their road circuits shows. Those are always fun.

[HaydenFan]

The Indy 500 is the worlds biggest motor race, even Jim Clark realized this.

Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan, Danica Patrick ... nuff said

[Prost1997T]

Problem is that IndyCar drivers have managed to drive into the wall on his own fault, they have misjudged braking points or thottle input.

As someone else said, Monaco was a crash-fest. Most F1 street circuits have multiple crashes and safety cars these days. It would have even more if F1 allowed double file restarts and raced on circuits as bumpy and unforgiving as say Belle Isle.

Okay, let's break down the incidents in race 2 at Detroit which is what you were referring to. Allmendinger crashed on the first lap: given that he has spent almost all of the last 6 years racing Nascar, I'm not surprised to see some mistakes from him, although it was still weak regardless. Hunter-Reay clipping the outside wall before a corner was unusual, but okay, I'll give you that one. Not a mistake a successful driver can afford while trying to defend his series title. Sato was being Sato, he crashed a lot in F1 too, nothing to see here. De Silvestro punctured a tyre on debris (which is why another safety car was called for pieces of carbon fibre on the track prior to the restart crash). Bourdais spinning Power around on the restart and causing chaos was unprecedented from him, and he was penalised. I don't recall any trouble after that.

Remember that in an F1 race, there are much larger performance differentials between teams and cars spend very little time packed together. They also don't race on street circuits very often. I can also see the kind of chops that some drivers throw being very dangerous on ovals.

As I said it was so frustrating the race was underway and someone managed to crash into the wall, then two laps on race mode, than a crash again and so on.

Sonoma, Barber Motorsports Park, Edmonton, and Mid-Ohio had virtually zero safety cars between them recently. What do they have in common? Not street circuits.

[sesku]

The only thing I like about oval racing is the big crash! Try to watch NASCAR and Indycar racing on oval circuit but it so boring. Thousands of ads break doesn't help either.

[king_crud]

I think the poll options are a bit loaded so I won't vote.

I've always loved both European style racing and American style racing. Each have their own merits and downsides too. I started properly watching both F1 and Indycar at about the same time (1996) and have always had a good appreciation for both.

Still can't get on with NASCAR. I find that too "American" and really only watch it with friends to laugh at it. The main series I follow are F1, Indycar and the BTCC, so I'm not really favouring one side of the Atlantic over the other.

you sound like me. I've been following both since at least 1991, with various phases in and out of interest. F1 and indycar are different and need to be appreciated in such a way. For me mid-90s indycar was about as exciting as it gets and the reason was the variety of circuits on the calender. I loved Elkhart Lake, I loved the Gold Coast, I loved the Milwakee Mile, I loved Indy & Michigan.. The cars looked good and the racing was generally great.

I am trying to get back into Indycars now, and I think they're on the right track, but just get rid of those sidepods! Otherwise appreciate the different styles for what they are.

Edited by king_crud, 06 June 2013 - 15:28.

[sheepgobba]

The MOST annoying thing about American Series like Indycar and Nascar is the freaking yellow flags thrown at every bloody thing

That makes it so annoying and heck boring to watch at times...

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's about context.

As was pointed out, they have far less yellows on natural road courses. If you race on ovals or tight street circuits you pretty much have to deploy the safety car.

And there are also insurance and other legal issues. People have been killed on Indycar tracks because they didn't go yellow.

[greenman]

The only thing I like about oval racing is the big crash! Try to watch NASCAR and Indycar racing on oval circuit but it so boring. Thousands of ads break doesn't help either.

Ah, yes.. That is a problem though.

But I will not get a race fan watching the race such as Fontana 2012, esp. knowing the championship implication, and not being thrilled. I was on the edge of my seat for more than half of that race, and it was at sleepy-time hours on my end

[Andrew Hope]

None of the complaints about Nascar usually hold any water.

IT'S JUST A LOTTERY!

Compared to 60 years of pretty much richest team wins in F1? Yeah, I hate lotteries.

THEY JUST GO ROUND IN CIRCLES!

True, but you'll note that racing was originally point-to-point, and our silly modern ideas of safety mean that a 500-mile race on a 2-mile loop is more likely to be a lasting annual activity than a Paris to Berlin road race. I know which I'd rather watch, and I know which will never happen.

OVALS SUCK!

http://en.wikipedia....ational_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia...._Street_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia...._Street_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia...._Marina_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia....it_de_Catalunya
http://en.wikipedia....i/Fuji_Speedway
http://en.wikipedia....ers_Magny-Cours

NO WAIT, OVALS REALLY SUCK!



ARGH I HATE OVALS!

IT TAKES NO SKILL!

Yeah, piloting 3500lb, 800hp stock cars filled with metal and gasoline at 200mph for four hours with 42 other nutjobs doing the same thing in cars with the aerodynamics of a brick. Anyone can do that. But racing in a series with half the cars, twenty times the runoff, and so much downforce you can't powerslide above 50mph even if you want to? That's for the world's greatest drivers only!

THEY THROW CAUTIONS FOR ANYTHING!

Yeah, including rain. F1's never thrown the safety car out because of rain, right?

THEY'RE JUST A BUNCH OF REDNECKS!

I can't speak for anyone else but I'll take a bunch of good ol' boys from way down south over snobs who can't fathom any racing beyond what they grew up watching any day of the week.

It's too bad these debates always turn into 'murica vs. Yurop. Both racing scenes rock and both suck, and both could learn a lot from each other if anyone wanted to pay attention.

[Deluxx]

This thread is so bad

edit: Nice examples AH.

I Hate how people try to compare the two like one is better than the other. They both compliment each other and are both spawned from one another.

"Why do americans crash into the barriers so much"

*looks at montage of monaco race starts and gross john crashing into everyone*

Edited by Deluxx, 06 June 2013 - 16:22.

[darkkis]

None of the complaints about Nascar usually hold any water.

IT'S JUST A LOTTERY!

Compared to 60 years of pretty much richest team wins in F1? Yeah, I hate lotteries.

THEY JUST GO ROUND IN CIRCLES!

True, but you'll note that racing was originally point-to-point, and our silly modern ideas of safety mean that a 500-mile race on a 2-mile loop is more likely to be a lasting annual activity than a Paris to Berlin road race. I know which I'd rather watch, and I know which will never happen.

OVALS SUCK!

http://en.wikipedia....ational_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia...._Street_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia...._Street_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia...._Marina_Circuit
http://en.wikipedia....it_de_Catalunya
http://en.wikipedia....i/Fuji_Speedway
http://en.wikipedia....ers_Magny-Cours

NO WAIT, OVALS REALLY SUCK!



ARGH I HATE OVALS!

IT TAKES NO SKILL!

Yeah, piloting 3500lb, 800hp stock cars filled with metal and gasoline at 200mph for four hours with 42 other nutjobs doing the same thing in cars with the aerodynamics of a brick. Anyone can do that. But racing in a series with half the cars, twenty times the runoff, and so much downforce you can't powerslide above 50mph even if you want to? That's for the world's greatest drivers only!

THEY THROW CAUTIONS FOR ANYTHING!

Yeah, including rain. F1's never thrown the safety car out because of rain, right?

THEY'RE JUST A BUNCH OF REDNECKS!

I can't speak for anyone else but I'll take a bunch of good ol' boys from way down south over snobs who can't fathom any racing beyond what they grew up watching any day of the week.

It's too bad these debates always turn into 'murica vs. Yurop. Both racing scenes rock and both suck, and both could learn a lot from each other if anyone wanted to pay attention.

What.... What's wrong with Magny Cours or Fuji?

[Deluxx]

Them crashes....

[Garagiste]

Like Ross but in reverse, I've lived and attended races on both sides of the pond. If there's one thing I can take from the experience it's this:
Ovals are way better to watch if you actually turn up, rather than watch on TV.

[MattPete]

only in name
the occasional single race in Australia and 4 or so European races in 10+ years make it as much a world series as the world series of baseball.

You forgot Brazil, Canada, and Mexico.

[Prost1997T]

You forgot Brazil, Canada, and Mexico.

...and Japan for a while.