333 replies to this topic

[garoidb]

Schumacher was only in F1 for 2 years and some change before 1994, so I don't know where these "many years" came from.

I'm not sure how "mid-level" Benetton could be considered either. In both seasons they only narrowly missed out on 2nd in the constructors (to Mclaren and Senna's brilliance). Williams was miles ahead of everyone in those years.

Yes, it wasn't "many years", but the cars were not WDC competitive either. I'd imagine his time in sportscars also helped him to develop.

[seahawk]

When Hamilton acts nicely then he is a PR bot, when he speaks his mind then he's a spoiled brat

Also, Lewis is second most successful driver since his entry into F1 (ranking titles first, wins after it) and he has driven alongside some of the older greats like Schumacher, Alonso, Button and Kimi - yet many people here don't give him much credit for his success. And being 2nd to Vettel is not a shame really.

Lewis was never beaten by Vettel, he is being beaten by Adrian Newey.

[fastwriter]

Lewis was never beaten by Vettel, he is being beaten by Adrian Newey.

Oh, didn't know Newey had a Super Licence

And now: Can you please stop with this crap. Don't post, when you have nothing to say.

[BuzzingHornet]

Vettel is currently the best IMHO, he is just about shading Alonso into 2nd place. Hamilton is Tier 2 this year, and behind Rosberg (although its close there).

Hamilton needs to remember that he supposedly wasn't expecting instant results at Merc, and play the long game. I still think he could end up with 3 titles but he has to focus.

Edited by BuzzingHornet, 21 June 2013 - 07:41.

[1Devil1]

I think Brazil 08 was actually a sign of his mental strength under pressure. I honestly don't know how he kept it on the road given what was on the line. That was Lewis' 2nd year in F1; contrast that with the race Seb had in Brazil last year with 5 years and 2 WDCs under his belt. It was a terrible race, yet Seb is still seen as being "great" under pressure. The reality is that they all have their moments both good and bad. I take issue because Lewis' bad moments (both on and off the track) may be fewer than other drivers of his calibre, but there's more of a tendency (by some) to have those bad moments define him, while similar bad moments for other drivers are easily forgotten or sometimes never recognized.

As you and others have pointed out in this thread, you can have all the driving talent in the world but you won't be able to maximize it unless you have a team that can deliver. Right now, RBR is showing everyone in F1 how it's done.

Wow what an achievement to keep the car on the road in a WDC title decide. He got caught napping by Vettel and almost paid for it... one corner less and Massa would be the champion. The main difference Vettel made a mistake (even this is highly debatable) and did come back for his own good two times last year. Hamilton lost places, and lucked into his championship into the last corner.. but some guys will tell how he has shown his strength under pressure counting on a slow Glock...

[caso]

Lewis was never beaten by Vettel, he is being beaten by Adrian Newey.

...and Loic Bigois and Nikos Tombazis and James Allison.;)

[P123]

That's not the best example I think. Of course all drivers care about winning championships and statistics. They all know that's what really counts and goes into the F1 history. That's not the point. Some drivers do it while others talk about it. Lewis's and Vettel's mentalities couldn't be more different.

Vettel can do, he has the car and the team. Hamilton can fret about not doing, because he doesn't.

You can criticise Hamilton's starry eyed take on the vacuous world of celebrity, but that's a different issue.

[P123]

Hamilton's career isn't even close to being over. To say that he's nosedived is ludicrous.
What he needs to do is get on with the job at hand.
Forget legacies, forget public perception, drive the bloody car and get on with it.

Pretty much this.

[velgajski1]

Lewis was never beaten by Vettel, he is being beaten by Adrian Newey.

Vettel is currently the best IMHO, he is just about shading Alonso into 2nd place. Hamilton is Tier 2 this year, and behind Rosberg (although its close there).

Hamilton needs to remember that he supposedly wasn't expecting instant results at Merc, and play the long game. I still think he could end up with 3 titles but he has to focus.

Nice to see we have Alonso and Hamilton fanboys.

FYI:
1. Vettel is beating everyone last few seasons on merit, otherwise his teammate would do better. Hamilton had troubles beating Button who is a great driver, but still...
2. Hamilton and Button are actually most successful drivers of recent seasons after Vettel. Alonso is still trailing on old glory, but thats fading out slowly with each WDC opportunity missed. I wonder what the excuse will be if he loses title this season, btw

Edited by velgajski1, 21 June 2013 - 08:04.

[Higli]

(Schumacher) But you can't find a statement or interview where he talks badly about Ferrari and that he deserves more titles etc..

Always remember that Michael Schumacher grew up in the era before the Internet. Hence there are relatively few documented statements from that time.

Anything Lewis Hamilton says is quoted to death and he is really good at forgetting this when he talks into a microphone. If I was an F1 team principle there would be a clause in my driver's contracts that the use of Twitter/Facebook etc. were strictly forbidden.

[V3TT3L]

Lewis was never beaten by Vettel, he is being beaten by Adrian Newey.

Vettel did his part.

Read Seb holds the record of most consecutive races without a DNF by accident... and building up.

I like Lewis, but his career is taking the JV path.
Great start, One WDC and...

Edited by V3TT3L, 21 June 2013 - 08:37.

[krea]

Schumacher was only in F1 for 2 years and some change before 1994, so I don't know where these "many years" came from.

I'm not sure how "mid-level" Benetton could be considered either. In both seasons they only narrowly missed out on 2nd in the constructors (to Mclaren and Senna's brilliance). Williams was miles ahead of everyone in those years.

Schumacher entered the F1 in 1991 so yeah that's many years.

Edited by krea, 21 June 2013 - 08:44.

[Nomore]

Vettel did his part.

Read Seb holds the record of most consecutive races without a DNF by accident... and building up.

I like Lewis, but his career is taking the JV path.
Great start, One WDC and...

i don't think that LH and JV are in the same level...Mercedes will be competitiv in the 2014-2018...Lewis will have a shot to win 1-2 others WDC

[krea]

Always remember that Michael Schumacher grew up in the era before the Internet. Hence there are relatively few documented statements from that time.

Anything Lewis Hamilton says is quoted to death and he is really good at forgetting this when he talks into a microphone. If I was an F1 team principle there would be a clause in my driver's contracts that the use of Twitter/Facebook etc. were strictly forbidden.

Schumacher had the english press who hated him since 1994.

And it's not that Hamilton does sily things just with twitter.

[Higli]

Mercedes will be competitiv in the 2014-2018...Lewis will have a shot to win 1-2 others WDC

Wow, can you please tell me next weeks Lotto numbers? I won't tell anybody, promised!

And by the way, it is way more probable that Mercedes will be out of F1 in 2014. And that's not just speculation, that's the outspoken will of important shareholders of the Daimler AG.

Edited by Higli, 21 June 2013 - 08:54.

[krea]

Lewis was never beaten by Vettel, he is being beaten by Adrian Newey.

Why is Hamilton not driving for Red Bull he had an offer from Red Bull?

[Nomore]

Wow, can you please tell me next weeks Lotto numbers? I won't tell anybody, promised!

sure..5, 76,7...go ahead

You do realize that 2014-2018 will be an engine competition ? The engine will not be freezed...yes i do believe and i put my money that Mercedes will be competitive in 2014-2018 period...in 2018 start the freezing of engine...nothing is guaranteed in F1 but i believe that Mercedes will be good in this period.

[Beamer]

Why is Hamilton not driving for Red Bull he had an offer from Red Bull?

No he hadn't.

[rijole1]

Vettel is currently the best IMHO, he is just about shading Alonso into 2nd place. Hamilton is Tier 2 this year, and behind Rosberg (although its close there).

Hamilton needs to remember that he supposedly wasn't expecting instant results at Merc, and play the long game. I still think he could end up with 3 titles but he has to focus.

Yes, patience, patience Lewis.
Patience is also a key factor if you want multiple championships. As somebody earlier said - Schumi is actually a good example in that case.

[Higli]

i put my money that Mercedes will be competitive in 2014-2018 period...in 2018 start the freezing of engine...nothing is guaranteed in F1 but i believe that Mercedes will be good in this period.

My bet would be that Mercedes will quit F1 during the 2014-2018 period. Another chance for Lewis to team up with Sebastian.

[Nomore]

My bet would be that Mercedes will quit F1 during the 2014-2018 period. Another chance for Lewis to team up with Sebastian.

maybe you are right

[rasul]

Vettel can do, he has the car and the team. Hamilton can fret about not doing, because he doesn't.

You can criticise Hamilton's starry eyed take on the vacuous world of celebrity, but that's a different issue.

I don't think it's a different issue. They are intertwined. Lewis's problem is, he wants to leave a great legacy, be famous, loved and admired by everyone. But that's not what F1 is about. It's not a popularity contest. He seems to have lost focus. He thinks too big. He thinks about winning multiple championships instead of focusing only on winning the next race.
Now he's better known for his celebrity exploits rather than his results on the track. If he keeps it up, his legacy will be that of an entitled celebrity or similar to Mansell's, who is known as a fast, aggressive driver who wouldn't stop moaning and crying that the whole world is against him. That's not the kind of legacy I want Lewis to leave.

I think on the long run it would have been better for Lewis to start, as other drivers, in a backmarker team. Then no one's expectations would have been as high, including his own.Came across an interesting comment on another site:

Lewis' debut in F1 turned out to be a major handicap to his success. No rookie had ever been identified, as a young boy, by a top F1 team and groomed so attentively. He arrived, on the scene, in the glaring spotlight of the best thing ever for F1. On his way to break all F1 records. The publicity, adulation and expectations went ballistic. To make the point, that he was not just the rookie of the year but the "rookie of all time", he was paired with Alonso but was given superior status, within the team, to the 2X WDC. That silly political mistake ended up handing the 2007 WDC to Kimi by one point (KR - 110, LH - 109 and FA - 109). Lewis simply did not struggle enough to break into the sport. By contrast, at the same time, an unknown BMW test driver was walking up and down pit lane begging for a seat. Then, when Kubica had his big crash in Montreal 2007, this unknown got his break and did at least as well as Kubica in the very next race. He was immediately picked up by Toro Rosso and gave them their first, and ONLY, victory, hardly anyone noticed, they were too busy discussing Hamilton's love life and the relationship to his dad. Then the unknown was snatched up by Red Bull. He gave them their first ever victory, something both Webber and Coulthard had failed to do. And the rest,as they say, is history.

The first thought was that in a few decades, it could make a good movie on someone's legacy. But with the way things are going, I'm afraid not Lewis's.

[revlec]

Fernando Alonso...has had a Champion capable car in 5 out of his 11 seasons in F1..Those would be 05,06,07,'10,'12....Also keep in mind his failure to win the 2010 and 2012 seasons was not down to any gross fault of his own.

In 2010 Alonso has made more mistakes than Vettel and Hamilton. China, Monaco, Spa, Silverstone.
It's convenient to ignore those and think that 2010 was Lewis championship to lose only because his mistakes were done in the 2nd part of the season.

In 2010 Alonso had an advantage that neither Vettel or Hamilton had. A subservient team mate with all the stragegies tailored to make him shine. Compare that with VET/WEB or HAM/BUT.

If we think about 2012, Alonso and Vettel has had their share of mistakes or inconsistent drives.And Hamilton had to retire something like 2(or 3 times?) when leading a race. That was a disaster.

The most successful after Vettel is Hamilton(from 2007 -->). Just look at the stats.

Edited by revlec, 21 June 2013 - 09:30.

[paulrobs]

I'm a big fan of Hamilton's but I do sometimes feel a little uneasy when I hear him talk nowadays. He's got to take care of the present here and now and the future will take care of itself.

[as65p]

The most successful after Vettel is Hamilton(from 2007 -->). Just look at the stats.

Yet still he feels hard done by having to drive those Mclarens and wasting his best years.

[revlec]

Yet still he feels hard done by having to drive those Mclarens and wasting his best years.

So last year McLaren operations were perfect right?
.
If RB operations were like McLaren, Vettel would have not won 3 WDC no matter how good the car or the driving. That's the point.

Edited by revlec, 21 June 2013 - 10:30.

[as65p]

So last year McLaren operations were perfect right?
.
If RB operations were like McLaren, Vettel would have not won 3 WDC no matter how good the car or the driving. That's the point.

Well, looking at the points tables it would have been two WDC for Alonso and one for Button instead. What would Hamilton complain about then?

[rko281]

I posted in this thread in the first pages and I see that discussion ended up in analyzing each season Mclaren "screw" him up.
C'mon...I though we were going to talk about him wanting a legacy and why he needs it so much when comparing to his peers. It's all about him and the reasons he seems to think that everything should be perfectly in place. Of course everyone wants the same (WDCs, more wins) but when things go wrong, especially when it's not your own doing, you shouldn't despair and whine too much. Move on and keep your focus on the next thing you have to do.

There are drivers very talented that didn't have it easy in the first years, but that never "blocked" them and made them believe they are the unluckiest ever.

Also, I don't agree with the excuse that he was "molded" and made believe that he would shatter every record possible. Maybe this is a valid excuse in your early 20's. He is now a man and if he indeed is affected by these thoughts then he should overcome them.



P.S. Don't want to be mean, but if he keeps on giving this kind of interviews that give the idea that he feels too sorry for himself, I'm afraid his legacy of a world champion and great racer will always be associated with whining too much

[JtP1]

If Lewis thinks he is so much better than the rest of the grid, just like his hero Senna. Then why does he need the best car?

[revlec]

Well, looking at the points tables it would have been two WDC for Alonso and one for Button instead. What would Hamilton complain about then?

You surely know how to be serious... I will not waste my time..

[revlec]

I posted in this thread in the first pages and I see that discussion ended up in analyzing each season Mclaren "screw" him up.
C'mon...I though we were going to talk about him wanting a legacy and why he needs it so much when comparing to his peers. It's all about him and the reasons he seems to think that everything should be perfectly in place. Of course everyone wants the same (WDCs, more wins) but when things go wrong, especially when it's not your own doing, you shouldn't despair and whine too much. Move on and keep your focus on the next thing you have to do.

There are drivers very talented that didn't have it easy in the first years, but that never "blocked" them and made them believe they are the unluckiest ever.

Also, I don't agree with the excuse that he was "molded" and made believe that he would shatter every record possible. Maybe this is a valid excuse in your early 20's. He is now a man and if he indeed is affected by these thoughts then he should overcome them.



P.S. Don't want to be mean, but if he keeps on giving this kind of interviews that give the idea that he feels too sorry for himself, I'm afraid his legacy of a world champion and great racer will always be associated with whining too much

Drivers very talented like who? We want names..
Who do you think would have deserved a place in a Top team(in their first year) more than Hamilton?

Edited by revlec, 21 June 2013 - 10:59.

[as65p]

You surely know how to be serious... I will not waste my time..

Sure it would be a waste arguing the WDC table stats, especially after you yourself brought statistics in with

...
The most successful after Vettel is Hamilton(from 2007 -->). Just look at the stats.

Glad you noticed!

[as65p]

Drivers very talented like who? We want names..
Who do you think would have deserved a place in a Top team(in their first year) more than Hamilton?

He didn't propose that, not even close.

[SophieB]

Enough! Amazing. Even with such a wide-ranging topic to talk about, you STILL all managed to turn it into a general off-topic mess.

Closed.