199 replies to this topic

[yr]

Ok, so Lotus used again team orders, and again, they did it like idiots. Either use team orders or dont use, but for f@ck sake, dont use them after your driver has lost time like there was no tommorow and ruined his tyres by driving behind slower team mate several laps. Please, Lotus, learn from Ferrari and dont hold your #1 behind #2 more than half lap or dont issue any orders at all. Not this kind of BS anymore, thank you.

[BCM]

I'd have to agree. They should have let Kimi through as soon as he was under 2 seconds. Grosjean's feelings won't win them the championship. That could have been a Lotus win.

[Andrew Hope]

Yes, how dare Grosjean inconvenience the great Lord Kimi by trying to win the race (and being faster than Raikkonen for 95% of it).

[Jovanotti]

Yes, how dare Grosjean inconvenience the great Lord Kimi by trying to win the race (and being faster getting the better strategy than Raikkonen for 95% 100% of it).

Edited by Jovanotti, 07 July 2013 - 14:10.

[SamH123]

Agreed
Merc did the same. Get Rosberg out the way instantly if you are going to do it at all, ok he might lose 1s but his team mate will gain more

Edited by SamH123, 07 July 2013 - 14:06.

[prty]

I was wondering how some here would react after seeing the team orders they always criticize favour Kimi.
"Do it faster" it is then

[MikeTekRacing]

Yes, how dare Grosjean inconvenience the great Lord Kimi by trying to win the race (and being faster than Raikkonen for 95% of it).

+ they compromised RG's race by pitting him REALLY early to force Vettel into reacting

[ViMaMo]

I don't know what excuse some have now. RG was actually fighting for the lead.

[artista]

Frankly, Lotus should start not causing the situations that make team orders necessary.

This is the second race in a row where they have Räikkönen in front of Grosjean on track and, then, the team chooses a pit strategy that puts Grosjean in front of Räikkönen.

[kimster89]

Im a Kimi fan, but i feel sorry for Romain. His sacrife was in vain today coz lotuses pitwall clearly doesnt what he is doing.

[TailG]

+ they compromised RG's race by pitting him REALLY early to force Vettel into reacting

They compromised Kimi MUCH WORSE by bringing him in early in the first stops. This would have been an easy win for Kimi without that **** up.

[Shiroo]

I was wondering how some here would react after seeing the team orders they always criticize favour Kimi.
"Do it faster" it is then

This.
Sadly but some people that claim that they are Lotus fans, think that Grosjean should disappear in void as soon as Kimi closes up. This is terrible. kimi has no chance for WDC anyway, what's the point of such team orders anyway? It looks terrible. Lotus is like new Ferrari, whenever Kimi is close to Grosjean, Grosjean gets instant "Kimi si faster". While Romain said today that he was faster than kimi in first stint, nothing happened.


If i would be RG, then I would respond smt like :"Then he will overtake me easly" or so. Cause it is becoming ******** (RG can even fight vs KR?)

Edited by Shiroo, 07 July 2013 - 14:11.

[Watkins74]

It was a fantastic 2nd and 3rd for Lotus. No need to be so downbeat.

[Vesuvius]

They had to told Romain twice to let Kimi pass because he didn't "hear" the first call.

[artista]

I don't know what excuse some have now. RG was actually fighting for the lead.

The excuse it's pretty simple. Räikkönen was in front of Grosjean, lapping in 1:37, faster than the cars on mediums, and they pitted him to put him in the middle of the traffic to lap in 1:39, 1:40, while his teammate could stay out lapping in 1:37 and undercut him.

For heaven's sake, it was the team who caused the whole situation from the beginning.

[Jyllenberg]

While Romain said today that he was faster than kimi in first stint, nothing happened.

Kimi was driving behind Hamilton at that point. Hamilton was slowing Kimi.

[motorhead]

They compromised Kimi MUCH WORSE by bringing him in early in the first stops. This would have been an easy win for Kimi without that **** up.

This, Kimi was stuck behind Mercs after the first stop, which was done waaayyyy too early compared to Gro

[MikeTekRacing]

They compromised Kimi MUCH WORSE by bringing him in early in the first stops. This would have been an easy win for Kimi without that **** up.

that was a mistake
pitting RG too early was intentional to compromise Vettel

[Jyllenberg]

It was a fantastic 2nd and 3rd for Lotus. No need to be so downbeat.

We have had enough 2nd and 3rd places from Lotus.

Everyone at top is racing for victory, not just podium places.

[Wander]

I don't really care either way. This stuff is between the drivers and the team.

[MikeTekRacing]

Kimi was driving behind Hamilton at that point. Hamilton was slowing Kimi.

wow...remember silverstone? RG was behind a STR when he got the call that kimi is faster. double standards?

[Jyllenberg]

wow...remember silverstone? RG was behind a STR when he got the call that kimi is faster. double standards?

Kimi is way ahead in standings so what did you expect?

[Shiroo]

Kimi was driving behind Hamilton at that point. Hamilton was slowing Kimi.

well and Vettel was slowing down Grosjean.

[Lights]

Race was a carbon copy of Bahrain 2012 & 2013.

Lotus chasing Vettel with slightly better racepace, Grosjean initially in front, both seem capable of challenging him so initially Lotus doesn't do much, then they realize Kimi is their best bet but they lose time responding to that and switching positions, and in the end they just miss out.

And as someone who would support anyone else but Vettel win another championship, Lotus:

[asmodeo]

poor Massa, the team destroying him psychologicall again. AH, no, sorry this isn't about Ferrari and Alonso, poor Kimi, he team destroying him again

[MikeTekRacing]

Kimi is way ahead in standings so what did you expect?

that's a different reason than saying kmi was slowed down by hamilton.

[aray]

Kimi didn't loose valuable time behind Grosjean today...after pitting at lap 50,he took 6 laps to close the gap of 2.4 sec to Gro and come to DRS zone....the one lap he lost time for Gro 'impending' wouldn't made up in the end even if Kimi had gotten another lap...catching Vettel and crossing him are two different things....

Edited by aray, 07 July 2013 - 14:22.

[artista]

Race was a carbon copy of Bahrain 2012 & 2013.

Lotus chasing Vettel with slightly better racepace, Grosjean initially in front, both seem capable of challenging him so initially Lotus doesn't do much, then they realize Kimi is their best bet but they lose time responding to that and switching positions, and in the end they just miss out.

And as someone who would support anyone else but Vettel win another championship, Lotus:

No, there is a huge difference with Bahrain 2012.

In Bahrain, Räikkönen started behind Grosjean, had another strategy, but he needed to pass Grosjean on track.

In this case, Räikkönen was in front of Grosjean, the team screwd Kimi with the pit-stop strategy, and he ended up behind Grosjean.

Edited by artista, 07 July 2013 - 14:22.

[yr]

Yes, how dare Grosjean inconvenience the great Lord Kimi by trying to win the race (and being faster than Raikkonen for 95% of it).

It seems you didnt either bother to read the opening post or you seriously lack the comprehension (same goes for miketecracing, prty et all) I thought I made myself clear on that: Either use team orders properly or dont use them at all.

I for one would have been much happier to see a) Kimi getting past without a delay and had a real opportunity to challenge for the lead, b) Grosjean keeping his position and fighting it out against Kimi throughout the last stint.

What I didnt want to see was this stupid thereabouts solution, which wasnt fair for either of Lotus drivers.

[Jyllenberg]

that's a different reason than saying kmi was slowed down by hamilton.

Well, no.

Kimi is in better overall position and Hamilton was slowing him -> no need for Grosjeans TO overtake to mess things even more up.

[Lights]

No, there is a huge difference with Bahrain.

In Bahrain, Räikkönen started behind Grosjean, had another strategy, but he needed to pass Grosjean on track.

In this case, Räikkönen was in front of Grosjean, the team screwd Kimi with the pit-stop strategy, and he ended up behind Grosjean.

That does make it a bit different, but again, at that point in the beginning Grosjean did actually look quicker than Raikkonen. Lotus gets confused who to back to attack Vettel and screws Kimi in the process.

Still, 3 very similar races resulting in the exact same podium.

[sheepgobba]

Agreed
Merc did the same. Get Rosberg out the way instantly if you are going to do it at all, ok he might lose 1s but his team mate will gain more

The master tactician that Ross Brawn clearly is then ;)

[artista]

That does make it a bit different, but again, at that point in the beginning Grosjean did actually look quicker than Raikkonen. Lotus gets confused who to back to attack Vettel and screws Kimi in the process.

Still, 3 very similar races resulting in the exact same podium.

Kimi was stuck behind Hamilton. He only had one lap on clean air during that first stint.

Frankly, I still don't understand why the team pitted Räikkönen, who was lapping faster than the guys with mediums, just to put him in traffic. That was the one big mistake, in my opinion.

[SilentKiller]

Frankly it seems Lotus strategic team rolls a dice to decide the strategy.

[kimster89]

To me they should have switched them right after the SC went to the pits. Kimi would be p2 and he would generate a lot more pressure on VET then Romain did.

[Trust]

Kimi was stuck behind Hamilton. He only had one lap on clean air during that first stint.

Frankly, I still don't understand why the team pitted Räikkönen, who was lapping faster than the guys with mediums, just to put him in traffic. That was the one big mistake, in my opinion.

They wanted to see how much faster Grosjean would go.

[aray]

Kimi was stuck behind Hamilton. He only had one lap on clean air during that first stint.

Frankly, I still don't understand why the team pitted Räikkönen, who was lapping faster than the guys with mediums, just to put him in traffic. That was the one big mistake, in my opinion.

i remember Kimi was screaming around lap 46-47....but missed what he was saying...

[Shiroo]

Frankly it seems Lotus strategic team rolls a dice to decide the strategy.

Boullier: "We have good car so let's just roll the dice for strategy cause we won't win anyway".
Permane: "Yay cheers"

[SilentKiller]

i remember Kimi was screaming around lap 46-47....but missed what he was saying...

Thats because Radio was not working.

[yr]

Kimi didn't loose valuable time behind Grosjean today...after pitting at lap 50,he took 6 laps to close the gap of 2.4 sec to Gro and come to DRS zone....the one lap he lost time for Gro 'impending' wouldn't made up in the end even if Kimi had gotten another lap...catching Vettel and crossing him are two different things....

And yet, Kimi pulled several seconds gap to RG immediately after he passed him, why do you think that happened? As for Kimi not closing gap to Grosjean after his stop sooner, he propably didnt want to ruin his tyres in a dirty air, he propably expected (as he should have) that Lotus operates as wisely as Ferrari and he wouldnt need to toast his tyres by driving behind slower team mates dirty air very long.

[SpaMaster]

Non-sense. Raikkonen lost no time behind Grosjean. If you push Grosjean anymore it would become Massa-like slave level. That should happen to no one. You can't just abuse the other driver based on whims and fancies - ha, may be it would be like this, we would do this, etc.

[redreni]

This.
Sadly but some people that claim that they are Lotus fans, think that Grosjean should disappear in void as soon as Kimi closes up. This is terrible. kimi has no chance for WDC anyway, what's the point of such team orders anyway? It looks terrible. Lotus is like new Ferrari, whenever Kimi is close to Grosjean, Grosjean gets instant "Kimi si faster". While Romain said today that he was faster than kimi in first stint, nothing happened.


If i would be RG, then I would respond smt like :"Then he will overtake me easly" or so. Cause it is becoming ******** (RG can even fight vs KR?)

How can anybody be a Lotus fan - Lotus folded in 1994?

If I was Boullier and Grosjean reacted to team orders in the way you suggest, i.e. by behaving like a spoilt child, he would be out on his ear and I would bring in somebody reliable. If he doesn't want to be told to get out of the way, he should drive faster than Kimi and put pressure on the leader, then the team order wouldn't come.

[artista]

They wanted to see how much faster Grosjean would go.

Let's see if I get it: you have the guy fighting for the championship in front of his teammate, and then, since you want to see how fast the one of your drivers that is lost in the drivers championship can go, you pit your world championship contender when he finally got free air and put him in the middle of traffic to lap 2 seconds slower.

Trust, sorry, it doesn't make sense..

In his only lap on free air, Räikkönen did 1:37.5. In the laps Grosjean stayed out, he lapped in the 1:37.3-1:37.9 range. So what? In some laps Grosjean was faster than Kimi in his one lap on free air, in some others he was slower.

Edited by artista, 07 July 2013 - 14:40.

[Gorma]

Kimi was stuck behind Hamilton. He only had one lap on clean air during that first stint.

Not to mention that Grosjean could not keep up with Kimi when Hamilton was in the pits. Kimi was the faster driver today, but once again the team let him and Romain down. If they had both been on the same strategy as Romain on the first stint and on the same as Kimi on the last stint they would have come first and second. Romain was slowing down Kimi and himself on the last stint. If that would have gone on any longer Alonso could have passed both of them.

Edited by Gorma, 07 July 2013 - 14:42.

[rmpugh]

Sigh, yet again Romain got screwed. He was faster than Kimi, AGAIN, and forced to give the position up, AGAIN. They pitted Romain earlier to get Kimi ahead, then it turned out that was faster, so once again told Romain to move aside. Just to try and stop Kimi from going to Red Bull which, lets face it, is gonna happen anyway.

[aray]

And yet, Kimi pulled several seconds gap to RG immediately after he passed him, why do you think that happened? As for Kimi not closing gap to Grosjean after his stop sooner, he propably didnt want to ruin his tyres in a dirty air, he propably expected (as he should have) that Lotus operates as wisely as Ferrari and he wouldnt need to toast his tyres by driving behind slower team mates dirty air very long.

Until he really closed the gap to RG,it would have been a very bad call for Lotus to ask Romain...what could they say.?.."Kimi is 3 sec. behind you so you better move out now.."?

[Gorma]

Sigh, yet again Romain got screwed. He was faster than Kimi, AGAIN, and forced to give the position up, AGAIN. They pitted Romain earlier to get Kimi ahead, then it turned out that was faster, so once again told Romain to move aside. Just to try and stop Kimi from going to Red Bull which, lets face it, is gonna happen anyway.

No he wasn't. Kimi was pitted early because they wanted to get in front of Hamilton but that backfired. Romain was not challenging Vettel for the win. He just didn't have the pace. That is why Alonso almost passed him and that is why he was almost 5 seconds behind Kimi on the finish line. Kimi was a second a lap faster than Romain for the last 10 laps.

[Jyllenberg]

Sigh, yet again Romain got screwed. He was faster than Kimi, AGAIN, and forced to give the position up, AGAIN. They pitted Romain earlier to get Kimi ahead, then it turned out that was faster, so once again told Romain to move aside. Just to try and stop Kimi from going to Red Bull which, lets face it, is gonna happen anyway.

Nonsense.

[Fontainebleau]

Non-sense. Raikkonen lost no time behind Grosjean. If you push Grosjean anymore it would become Massa-like slave level. That should happen to no one. You can't just abuse the other driver based on whims and fancies - ha, may be it would be like this, we would do this, etc.

Excuse me? We have heard the "Kimi is faster than you" order thrice now, and you claim that Massa is in a worse situation than Grosjean?

[Gorma]

Until he really closed the gap to RG,it would have been a very bad call for Lotus to ask Romain...what could they say.?.."Kimi is 3 sec. behind you so you better move out now.."?

They should have informed him much earlier. This blunder cost the team a chance to win like last week and in Bahrain 2012.