316 replies to this topic

[Owen]

Sorry for the defeatist tone, but is this now looking inevitable?
And if not, who/what could stop him?

[JHSingo]

No.

Wasn't Alonso in the lead of the championship by 40ish points or something after the Hungarian GP last year? Lot of racing still to go.

[Kimiraikkonen]

No.

Wasn't Alonso in the lead of the championship by 40ish points or something after the Hungarian GP last year? Lot of racing still to go.

Alonso´s drove same car as Red Bull RB9??

[topical]

No.

Wasn't Alonso in the lead of the championship by 40ish points or something after the Hungarian GP last year? Lot of racing still to go.

Alonso was in the lead with a much slower car. Vettel is in the lead with a much faster car, and is also driving very well. He will win it at a canter, just like in 2011.

[caso]

This is ridiculous, wait until Interlagos and you'll know who the WDC is.

[TomNokoe]

The Red Bull is no longer the fastest race car. In colder conditions, its the Merc, in hotter, the Lotus. But the Red Bull is the most consistent and well rounded car, with the best team of strategists, engineers and pit crew, and a team mate who won't interfere, which means Vettel is always up there.

[EthanM]

The Red Bull is no longer the fastest race car. In colder conditions, its the Merc, in hotter, the Lotus. But the Red Bull is the most consistent and well rounded car, with the best team of strategists, engineers and pit crew, and a team mate who won't interfere, which means Vettel is always up there.

and Vettel is delivering excellent consistent drives, let's not brush this aside. He is leading the championship by virtue of his consistency and ability, so far this season, to always deliver near maximum.

[joshb]

This is ridiculous, wait until Interlagos and you'll know who the WDC is.

I hoping it doesn't go to the wire... if Seb is involved, not sure I could take an evening like that again!
Please Seb, wrap it up in Abu Dhabi or America!

[TomNokoe]

and Vettel is delivering excellent consistent drives, let's not brush this aside. He is leading the championship by virtue of his consistency and ability, so far this season, to always deliver near maximum.

Yes, of course, but at this point the least you expect from a WDC with a team/car geared toward him is to be consistent. The RB9 is stable, fast, good in all conditions, and Vettel basically lives inside the car. The kid needs a challenge

[joshb]

The Red Bull is no longer the fastest race car. In colder conditions, its the Merc, in hotter, the Lotus. But the Red Bull is the most consistent and well rounded car, with the best team of strategists, engineers and pit crew, and a team mate who won't interfere, which means Vettel is always up there.

Pretty much agree

The Red Bull is the best in the wet/damp
In terms of dry qualifying and race pace it is merely thereabouts
But Red Bull are now a well drilled outfit (on Seb's side at least!) and Seb doesn't hang around either.
Others have to take risks to gain back points on him, which may lead to errors, he's definitely in the box seat

[Lights]

This one won't go to the last race. Whoever can challenge Red Bull at a particular venue, they can't do it consistently. Red Bull is never weak. They will never struggle to qualify on the first 2 rows or have such bad racepace that they fall into the clutches of sub-top teams. This is more important than anything, yet it frequently happens to Lotus, Ferrari & Mercedes.

His teammate is on the brink of retirement, and more importantly never had the same drive to win a world championship. And when he does do well there's always various ways to screw his race up.

Every year is just a Vettel puzzle and at some point it just falls together for him. We still have Singapore, Korea, Suzuka etc. to go to, which is a part of the calender Red Bull always sets an extra step, so even if a rival would be ahead until then, like Alonso in 2012 or Hamilton in 2010, it still doesn't say much.

This year is something between 2011 and 2010/2012 in terms of predictability, but based on those experiences it's more obvious now.

[TomNokoe]

As a package, Rebastian Vetbull have no weakness, apart from perhaps the extremities of their rivals, as joshb said.

[Spa]

I think only "bad luck" will prevent Vettel from his fourth tittle in a row, he has the best car (quick in all conditions) and is driving it superb...

Cheers! ;-)

[ElJefe]

I was never really a Vettel fan, but I do feel the need to defend him against everyone who says it's just down to the car. I think that this season is Vettel's best season yet from a driver's perspective and his driving has been nothing short of spectacular. He didn't have the fastest car in Bahrain, but he still managed to win in relatively dominant fashion. The same goes for last weekend, when he managed to keep his cool and bring home the victory. He is more consistent than previous years. I feel that if he wins this WDC (and I think it's almost inevitable), it will be the most thoroughly deserved title of the four.

[MichaelPM]

Hot, cold, steel, kevlar, everything they can throw at the teams and the RB9 is always up at the sharp end while other teams are yo-yo'ing in performance depending on tracks, conditions and strategy calls.
No other team is consistently supplying their driver with the opportunity to challenge him and that's not going to change anytime soon.

Edited by MichaelPM, 08 July 2013 - 12:27.

[TomNokoe]

I feel that if he wins this WDC (and I think it's almost inevitable), it will be the most thoroughly deserved title of the four.

This explains why many people don't like him. Other drivers have arguably performed to this level that Seb is showing this year, but to no avail.

[Nonesuch]

Yup, agreed. I'd think your claim is a fairly uncontroversial statement at this point - and 90% of the respondents to the poll seem to agree.

Red Bull is strong all-round. Ferrari, Lotus and Mercedes may be quicker on some days, but they're too inconsistent. Red Bull also has a good 2nd driver that regularly takes away points from the opposition, and Vettel himself is strong as ever. It's the same championship-winning combination that worked in previous years.

The races can still be entertaining, but I'm guessing this championship is going turn into quite the yawn sooner rather than later.

[03011969]

The car is clearly great, but Vettel is getting far more out of it than his teammate. Again.

I do not want to see Vettel win it again, but I cannot think which team/driver combo deserve it more.

[Andrew Hope]

Eh, we're not even halfway through the season. Still 10 races to go. 250 points up for grabs, a lead of 34 isn't enough to crown anyone just yet. The same gap after Spa or India is a different story, but as it stands now Vettel is one DNF away from a single-digit lead in points.

[Masenco]

Although Vettel has a sizeable lead, there's alot of racing yet to be done. For all we know the tyres brought in Hungary may allow Merc to do qualli laps for the whole race!

[TheThirdTenor1]

in terms of quali pace, it seems they are 2nd best to Mercedes but this is to some extent overcome by their (well at least Vettel's) superior starts.

In terms of race pace, they are usually up there at the front, and it is their challenger who changes each race (e.g. Lotus at Nurburgring, Mercedes at Silverstone, Ferrari at Montreal). None of these teams are as consistent from race to race as Red Bull are.

[Owen]

Hot, cold, steel, kevlar, everything they can throw at the teams and the RB9 is always up at the sharp end while other teams are yo-yo'ing in performance depending on tracks, conditions and strategy calls.
No other team is consistently supplying their driver with the opportunity to challenge him and that's not going to change anytime soon.

Have to say I agree. If there is a challenge, where on earth is it coming from?

[1Devil1]

This explains why many people don't like him. Other drivers have arguably performed to this level that Seb is showing this year, but to no avail.

Which one? Except of Alonso I don't know anybody who performed like Vettel the recent years and please don't come up with Hamilton. His season 2012 was very good, but I my books he still has to prove that he is up to for a tough fight in the ending stage of a season. You can't even compare Vettel and Hamilton the last years because they were in completely different situations( fighting for the WDC till the end), mental toughness is a big part of being multiple WDC or not...

[joshb]

Hot, cold, steel, kevlar, everything they can throw at the teams and the RB9 is always up at the sharp end while other teams are yo-yo'ing in performance depending on tracks, conditions and strategy calls.
No other team is consistently supplying their driver with the opportunity to challenge him and that's not going to change anytime soon.

That's it though. it's not like the Red Bull is miles clear of anything else, it is just that it is never completely out of the running. The last race you could say the Red Bull had no chance of winning or fighting for a podium was Monza last year, but even then Vettel looked good for 4th or 5th before his penalty and retirement

[Atreiu]

No. There are plenty of races to go and I expect renewed challenges from Lotus and Ferrari.

[TheThirdTenor1]

Which one? Except of Alonso I don't know anybody who performed like Vettel the recent years and please don't come up with Hamilton. His season 2012 was very good, but I my books he still has to prove that he is up to for a tough fight in the ending stage of a season. You can't even compare Vettel and Hamilton the last years because they were in completely different situations( fighting for the WDC till the end), mental toughness is a big part of being multiple WDC or not...

I'm guessing TomNokoe was referring to Hamilton's 2010 season.

I think Hamilton already proved he is up for a tough fight at the end of the season in 2008.

[SamH123]

Have to say I agree. If there is a challenge, where on earth is it coming from?

The best chance probably is Mercedes (which given their problems shows how good Vettel chances are)

Lotus need a particular scenario to get near in qualifying and Ferrari (not including Germany ) have been the best part of 1 second down in qualifying a lot of the time. I don't see either finding that time with cars that are supposedly almost fully developed so it seems unlikely these teams are going to be able to mount a serious challenge starting so many slots down the grid each time.
Also, Singapore & Abu Dhabi are weak Ferrari tracks, Monza weak Lotus track while RB has no weak tracks.

Mercedes on the other hand can keep starting ahead of RB and they can occasionally race well. I'm not sure how hot the Asia series normally is but you couldn't write off Merc holding off RB in the race for Japan-Korea-India e.t.c if they can find the Silverstone performance regularly.

Edited by SamH123, 08 July 2013 - 12:54.

[Dunc]

The Red Bull is no longer the fastest race car. In colder conditions, its the Merc, in hotter, the Lotus. But the Red Bull is the most consistent and well rounded car, with the best team of strategists, engineers and pit crew, and a team mate who won't interfere, which means Vettel is always up there.

This.

Red Bull aren't the force they have been because others have caught up. But their rivals are still not able to challenge them consistently, giving Sebby V a real advantage. Next season though I predict that they will be behind the rest.

[mattferg]

No.

Wasn't Alonso in the lead of the championship by 40ish points or something after the Hungarian GP last year? Lot of racing still to go.

Yes, however Alonso was only in that position because the RB8 was underdeveloped and struggling and McLaren had pitstop/reliability woes. RB9 has none of those issues.

[Sakae]

10 races to go, thus I voted No. Too many factors these days beyond driver's control.

[mattferg]

Yes, of course, but at this point the least you expect from a WDC with a team/car geared toward him is to be consistent. The RB9 is stable, fast, good in all conditions, and Vettel basically lives inside the car. The kid needs a challenge

Yeah you're right, the RB every year is perfect, so consistent and smooth and never a challenge at all. That's why Mark always finishes second in the WDC and Vettel wins the championship before the last race every time... oh wait.

[1Devil1]

I'm guessing TomNokoe was referring to Hamilton's 2010 season.

I think Hamilton already proved he is up for a tough fight at the end of the season in 2008

this is a good one ;) wouldn't say this was the best performance - one of Hamilton's worst years especially the last race , way behind 2009 or 2010,2007. If Vettel has to prove himself against a strong team mates this is the major task for Lewis (in my book - I have to add).. but off topic. I see no way Vettel will lose this championship - team and driver are too good this year

[mattferg]

Also, Singapore & Abu Dhabi are weak Ferrari tracks, Monza weak Lotus track while RB has no weak tracks.

Spa and Monza are weak tracks for RB.

[undersquare]

Which one? Except of Alonso I don't know anybody who performed like Vettel the recent years and please don't come up with Hamilton. His season 2012 was very good, but I my books he still has to prove that he is up to for a tough fight in the ending stage of a season. You can't even compare Vettel and Hamilton the last years because they were in completely different situations( fighting for the WDC till the end), mental toughness is a big part of being multiple WDC or not...

Lol. In 2010 his team didn't even dare tell Sebi he was in wdc position in the race in case it made him tighten up! In 2011 there was no pressure with such a big lead and in 2012 he soooo nearly threw it all away in Abu Dhabi with 2 collisions and again in Brazil.

If anyone can have him under a bit of pressure at the end of the season they'll be in with a real chance.

[TheThirdTenor1]

Spa and Monza are weak tracks for RB.

Spa is fine for RB - any time they lose on the straights is gained in sector 2. They've never been off the podium there.

[SamH123]

Spa and Monza are weak tracks for RB.

true, sorry. I should have remembered Monza but I forgot Spa was bad because Vettel came 2nd last year (but now i remember he didn't make).

I still see Merc as the ones with the most potential, because, poor quali pace, to my amateur eye, seems much more inherent/deep. Merc sorting out race pace seems more likely than Lot/Fer finding 5 tenths in quali

Edited by SamH123, 08 July 2013 - 13:04.

[Masenco]

Which one? Except of Alonso I don't know anybody who performed like Vettel the recent years and please don't come up with Hamilton. His season 2012 was very good, but I my books he still has to prove that he is up to for a tough fight in the ending stage of a season. You can't even compare Vettel and Hamilton the last years because they were in completely different situations( fighting for the WDC till the end), mental toughness is a big part of being multiple WDC or not...

Lewis is relentlessly consistent in Q3 when you have one lap to be on the edge and make no mistakes- he has proved his mental toughness when it comes to the track.

[sopa]

Quite telling that even with DNF in UK Vettel still has a sizable lead. Basically he needs quite an unreliable car for the rest of the season to lose that title.

[1Devil1]

Lewis is relentlessly consistent in Q3 when you have one lap to be on the edge and make no mistakes- he has proved his mental toughness when it comes to the track.

You realize being in Q3 isn't quit the same situation as being in the last races of a WDC-campaign. I don't know where you take this comparison from. It proves he is one hell of a one lap driver - nothing more. Vettel came back two times (2010, 2012) in positions he had to win race after race...

[rasul]

The title of the topic and the poll are different. I don't think that it's Vettel's championship to lose, because there are many races left and 34 points is nothing at this point.

But do I think Vettel will be the WDC 2013? Yes, I do think he will be.

Edited by rasul, 08 July 2013 - 13:11.

[weltmeister1995]

They said the same think with Fernando last year,that"s is his to lose,but wait their are many races to go,more then 200 points is open.This is coming from a big vettel fan,obviously he is really amazing in this year,doesn"t have the fastest car,he is doing the same what did alonso last year,I think that his pace is even better then Alonso in 2012.Of course he has the better car,but still.
After Monza I will tell you,if vettel does have more then 50 points of a gap,then its almost game over,because then comes the famous Singapur,Japan,Korea,India,we might see some domination by red bull there...
My answer is I don't know...

Edited by weltmeister1995, 08 July 2013 - 13:16.

[weltmeister1995]

I hoping it doesn't go to the wire... if Seb is involved, not sure I could take an evening like that again!
Please Seb, wrap it up in Abu Dhabi or America!

No I want him to wrap it up already in India,really hope so.It was really heavy watching the last year Brasil GP,when Vettel spun,I thought it was game over for him,I nearly turn off the TV.
Vettel have to fought really hard in 2010,2012 to get the WDC.In 2011 it was much easier,he wasn"t so under pressure,and if the history repeats I expect a 2011 style ending for Vettel in 2013.And of course hard battle yet again in 2014,but I see Renault engines next year to be really good,they have a lot of experience with this engine style.You know it might be yet again,that the lotus,red bull will fight for the championship next year,dont underestimate the Renault,never!

Edited by weltmeister1995, 08 July 2013 - 13:25.

[Absulute]

Pretty much.

The fastest race car and a team mate who isn't allowed to interfere.


Boring, innit?

[Forma1]

Seb is making a solid job, but to be honest he has got the best car again. The RB9 is not always the fastest, but it is either the fastest or the second fastest. It is bloody quick in snow, in ocean, in rain, in desert, in the Noth Pol, while Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes are fast just under certain circumstances.

Alonso could be the only guy to beat Vettel like he nearly managed it last year and in 2010 in a much slower car, but this Ferrari is just way too sensitive.

[Kelateboy]

and Vettel is delivering excellent consistent drives, let's not brush this aside. He is leading the championship by virtue of his consistency and ability, so far this season, to always deliver near maximum.

Imagine if his gearbox had not failed him at Silverstone. It would have been an insurmountable lead even for the likes of Alonso.

[Lights]

You realize being in Q3 isn't quit the same situation as being in the last races of a WDC-campaign. I don't know where you take this comparison from. It proves he is one hell of a one lap driver - nothing more. Vettel came back two times (2010, 2012) in positions he had to win race after race...

What a coincidence he had the car to easily pull that off then.

Imagine if he didn't. That's what his rivals are basically facing for the 4th year in a row. And then people talk about 'pressure' and 'mental toughness', funnily. As if he's been in such a situation.

[Masenco]

You realize being in Q3 isn't quit the same situation as being in the last races of a WDC-campaign. I don't know where you take this comparison from. It proves he is one hell of a one lap driver - nothing more. Vettel came back two times (2010, 2012) in positions he had to win race after race...

Bold 1: Holding your nerves and keeping focus is a large part of your hotlap in Q3- a lap which can make or break your race; I'm sure we agree holding your nerves together and keeping your focus is also a large part of the final stages of a WDC run.


Bold 2: If memory serves correctly, didn't Vettel have a few incidents in Abu Dhabi and Brazil last year?

[InfectedPumpkin]

Of course he will be. It is hard not to be with by a mile best car on the grid.
If he will not win it, it would be shame.

[Skinnyguy]

No, long way to go and pecking order constantly changing from one week to another. Problem is RB is the most stable team, with consistently good performance.

[fed up]

Much as it pains me to say this, but Vettel is the best driver in F1 and, coupled with the efficiency and drive of the RBR team, the eam is the best in F1.

Lewis, Nando, Kimi and Rosberg will occasionally have their day. Vettel's day is everyday - Mr consistent