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Lotus - top team or leader of the midfield pack


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Poll: Lotus is? (126 member(s) have cast votes)

Lotus is?

  1. Top Team (77 votes [61.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.11%

  2. Leader of the Pack (38 votes [30.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.16%

  3. Who cares about Team from Enstone/Benetton/Lotus/Renault or however they call themself (11 votes [8.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.73%

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#1 Shiroo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 15:52

So what is your opinion guys? are they considered as Top Team already or simply the best of the rest?
They have WAY more podiums than normal midfielders aka FI, TR, Williams or Sauber, though they have rarely race pace to win. (I didn't mention McLaren cause I don't know where to put them :p)

What they are missing? Better car? More brain in strategy calls? Better drivers? More cash?
They are already in top bracket or 2012 and 2013 is just fluke?

Will they will improve in 2014 ?(they will have more cash, Sultans of Brunei acording to rumors is one of the guys that bought the packet recently etc), yet they might lose their best asset => Raikkonen.
What will happen with them from 2014 onwards, they will land back to midfield or keep the spot where they are at the very moment (or even go further)

Edited by Shiroo, 08 July 2013 - 15:53.


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#2 HaydenFan

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 15:55

I think the car might not be a top 3 car, but the season is developing with both drivers better than Ferrari or McLaren. Even while Mercedes is blindingly quick in qualifying, come race time, what car is always at the pointy end of the grid? The team in question, Lotus.

#3 Sakae

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 15:55

Depends. Thank you.

#4 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 15:59

One thing or another depending on the race weekend. Overall is hard to call, but I´d say top team.

#5 Disgrace

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 16:00

I think this question will really be answered based on next year's car, i.e. how they cope with the loss of James Allison. That said, the team has among the best infrastructure in F1 as proven by the ease of transition in the Gascoyne and Bell eras.

#6 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 16:04

Strategy-dependent-contender.

#7 SpaMaster

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 16:07

Lotus is a top team without doubt. You don't fight for championships just being leader of midfield pack. So, they are absolutely a top team.

What are they missing? Mainly money. They have the skills to do everything else. Sure their strategy, second driver, decisiveness, etc. could be better. But I believe it is mostly the rustiness of punching above the weight, being in a place where they shouldn't be. I still remember the 2009 and 2010 years of Red Bull. Their strategy team was horrible. But once they got used to being at the top, they became very profesional. Kimi has been very good for the team, but equally the team has been good for him.

#8 falalalalaland

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 16:14

Hmm. Bottom of the top teams maybe? They have the pedigree, but have been about 3rd/4th-ish usually if they have at least one decent driver to drag them into the mix.

#9 Radion

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 16:23

Hmm. Bottom of the top teams maybe? They have the pedigree, but have been about 3rd/4th-ish usually if they have at least one decent driver to drag them into the mix.

Raikonnen is one of the best drivers, so don't pretend like the types of vettel, hamilton or alonso would do wonders like winning every second race...

#10 03011969

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 16:27

The only consistent front runner is Red Bull

Lotus, Ferrari, Mercedes are all able to run at the front when conditions suit. Ferrari probably next most consistent to RBR, Lotus definitely in the top 4, but no hope of being WCC this year along with the others I've mentioned.

#11 falalalalaland

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 16:33

Raikonnen is one of the best drivers, so don't pretend like the types of vettel, hamilton or alonso would do wonders like winning every second race...


My gosh take a chill pill. I actually was referring to Kimi and Alonso amongst others over the years putting the team up there. A top team needs top drivers to deliver results, and vice versa.

#12 motorhead

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 17:46

The question how long they manage to keep the pace. Rumours suggests that there is a problem with Kimi´s salary(again) and -60million net loss last year will be difficult to cover during the following years. I hope that they get more investors to keep things rolling

#13 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 19:27

I wouldn't call them a top team, they make too many mistakes and have several near misses.

A top team wouldn't do that on several occasions.

#14 2ms

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 19:40

They're a team with top drivers and an excellent car, but disastrous strategy and general operations. Last year they had technical mishaps nearly every weekend, whether it be KERS, differential, clutch, hydraulics, etc + race-losing strategy. This year they have made huge strides in the former category, but still throw away results left and right with poor strategy and weak management (e.g. Grosjean ignoring team order for 3 laps when Kimi had chance of winning).

If they had a different team principal and whoever is responsible for strategy, then they would be a championship contender.

#15 apoka

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 19:43

Top team, because they can regularly challenge for wins and podiums on merit and they have more than 50% of the points of the WCC leader. In my opinion, it is odd not to consider Lotus a top team, especially since Grosjean did not perform that well - otherwise they could be 3rd in WCC.

#16 MikeV1987

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 20:26

They remind me of BMW-Sauber in 07' & 08'. Not a top team but best of the rest.

Edited by MikeV1987, 08 July 2013 - 20:26.


#17 Pitlane

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 20:35

Top team, because they can regularly challenge for wins and podiums on merit and they have more than 50% of the points of the WCC leader. In my opinion, it is odd not to consider Lotus a top team, especially since Grosjean did not perform that well - otherwise they could be 3rd in WCC.


Problem with that logic is that it would suggest McLaren isnt a top team.


#18 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 20:45

They remind me of BMW-Sauber in 07' & 08'. Not a top team but best of the rest.


I think they´re better than that. They can win without blunders of the best guys. BMW couldn´t.

I´d say they´re like 2003 McLaren. They can win very rarely, they are always there or there abouts, they can mount a title challenge if others make mistakes, but lack some speed compared to other teams.

#19 V3TT3L

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 20:49

Posted Image
Ask yourself...
Can you imagine RedBull, Ferrari, McLaren or Mercedes cellebrating a double sidestep podium ?

Edited by V3TT3L, 08 July 2013 - 21:05.


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#20 mattferg

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 20:52

I feel they're a top team NOW, thanks to Kimi's strength in pushing the team, but for 2009-2011 they were an also-ran midfield team.

#21 scheivlak

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 20:53

I wouldn't call them a top team, they make too many mistakes and have several near misses.

A top team wouldn't do that on several occasions.

Maybe they might as well be called a top team just because we notice every mistake and near miss.

A midfield team is under fair less scrutiny  ;)

#22 george1981

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 20:58

As a team they more often than not punch above their weight. Whether they should be considered a top team is a hard one though. When that team has enjoyed success such as with Michael Schumacher or Fernando Alonso you can't be sure how much is down to the driver and how much down to the team.
It has been noticeable that when they've had successful drivers leave they've gone down hill.

#23 sopa

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:02

More of a top team than McLaren, that's for sure.

However, it is a valid question about 2014. I am not sure, what to think. Renault was a real top team (much more than present Lotus) for two years in 2005-2006, but nowhere in 2007.

#24 scheivlak

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:05

As a team they more often than not punch above their weight. Whether they should be considered a top team is a hard one though. When that team has enjoyed success such as with Michael Schumacher or Fernando Alonso you can't be sure how much is down to the driver and how much down to the team.
It has been noticeable that when they've had successful drivers leave they've gone down hill.

They're stronger and more succesfull now than in 2008-2009....

#25 Shiroo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:06

Posted Image
Ask yourself...
Can you imagine RedBull, Ferrari, McLaren or Mercedes cellebrating a double sidestep podiums ?

and how's that a argument towards any answer? They were always doing that, and actually result 2-3 for McLaren, Ferrari or sometimes even Mercedes would be thing to celebrate lol.

#26 sopa

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:10

I remember Williams was over the moon with 2-3 at Monaco in 2005.

#27 mattferg

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:11

They're stronger and more succesfull now than in 2008-2009....


Think he's talking about 2005-6 vs 2007 mate.

#28 Risil

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:19

Top team, although a very underresourced one.

#29 scheivlak

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:28

Think he's talking about 2005-6 vs 2007 mate.

Which shows the error in his statement.

#30 sopa

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:31

Top team, although a very underresourced one.


Which other top teams have been underfunded I wonder. I mean usually they have all been well-funded. Renault in 2005-06 lacked a bit of money they said? What about Benetton mid 90s? Or Jordan in 1999 if anyone considered them a top team for that brief moment.

#31 V3TT3L

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:33

Also they sell acres for a small amount of sponsorship.

I felt sad that their race suits didn't have sponsors in the belly - at the podium ceremony.

#32 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:38

Maybe they might as well be called a top team just because we notice every mistake and near miss.

A midfield team is under fair less scrutiny ;)


True that. :up:

#33 scheivlak

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:44

What about Benetton mid 90s?

I don't think they were underfunded. Look how easy Flavio could lure Schumi from Jordan after just one race, and look how they could outplay McLaren for the latest Ford engines in 1993. That was smartness, but also money. And look how easy they just took Ligier and played with a few others, got Renault engines as good as the Williams for 1995 - you got to have some money for that.

#34 HammyHamiltonFan

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:13

their easily the best at tyre management in some races, other than that they are probably behind Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari in terms of raw pace.

#35 ray b

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:40

NOT THE TOP TEAM now

but with a history of 4 WC with the T>B>R>new lotus sure makes them a top team overall
and a good chance to be second in the WCC money at years end
and sure to beat the true middies by a mile FI Sauber and sadly Williams

#36 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:52

They remind me of BMW-Sauber in 07' & 08'. Not a top team but best of the rest.

I would agree. They are close but not quite a championship winning car.

The situation with Lotus is bizarre!!?? But you are not sure if this really a Lotus team or not?

Raikkonen drives a Renault RS for publicity demonstrations, but never a Exige S or Evora S!?? :confused:

And Lotus advertising on Lola-Toyota LMP1 car but also with their own chassis in LMP2? They cannot make up their minds? Very odd. Their engine partner is Judd (used in the lmp2 car) but their Indycar engine was a complete flop. Since when did Lotus make engines, why they need an engine partner? :confused:

They don't need to be in LMP, as F1 is far more "visible". Would they not be better off to race their actual cars in GTE? Again the target buyer of Lotus is the hardcore driving enthusiast and not the prestige buyer like some Porsche buyers... the Lotus buyer will be well aware of who builds the race cars carrying the Lotus name, so they are not fooling them, so what are they doing? :confused:

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 09 July 2013 - 02:53.


#37 George Costanza

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:59

I think this question will really be answered based on next year's car, i.e. how they cope with the loss of James Allison. That said, the team has among the best infrastructure in F1 as proven by the ease of transition in the Gascoyne and Bell eras.



Indeed. 2005 and 2006 showed that the Enstone can handle transition well.... Gascoyne goes to Toyota in 2004 and Bob Bell replaces him, and then goes to MGP.

#38 Gorma

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:02

Lotus is the leader of the midfield pack. It is a midfield team when it comes to resources and funding.

#39 velgajski1

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:02

Top team for sure, constant podium winners and occasional race winners. Not doing much worse than Ferrari/McLaren at all. Maybe they lack stronger 2nd driver to be better in WCC standings.

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#40 Mauseri

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:09

Lotus is the leader of the midfield pack. It is a midfield team when it comes to resources and funding.

And speed also. They don't have the speed to take poles or lead races but only on a rare occasion when absolutely everything is in favor of them.

It's easy to say the stragies are bad, when they don't have the speed to pull magical fast laps to overtake.

Also rans, who can reap the benefit of others misshaps.

Edited by Mauseri, 09 July 2013 - 08:12.


#41 swiniodzik

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 22:41

The answer depends on how one defines different classes of teams and this is very subjective. For some 'top' will mean just challenging for podiums on pace most of the time, while others for example will add an additional caveat of capitalizing on their strongest pace showings more often than not which Lotus frustratingly doesn't do (strategy mistakes and qualifying struggles being the two most evident obstacles to that). As for money, some will say that raising it to a top-like level so that the lack of it isn't a hindrance is actually an inherent part of being a top team.

For me Lotus as a team is neither top nor midfield. Their performances actually kind of defined an 'almost top' class for me which I'd call an intermediate state between 'top' and 'leader of midfield' - more often than not being there or thereabouts podium territory but not maximizing their chances most of the time, hardly ever struggling to be quick enough for solid points and occasionally showing race winning pace.

Edited by swiniodzik, 09 July 2013 - 22:49.


#42 MP422

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 22:45

Top tier IMO.

#43 Music Lover

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:07

They're a team with top drivers and an excellent car, but disastrous strategy and general operations. Last year they had technical mishaps nearly every weekend, whether it be KERS, differential, clutch, hydraulics, etc + race-losing strategy. This year they have made huge strides in the former category, but still throw away results left and right with poor strategy and weak management (e.g. Grosjean ignoring team order for 3 laps when Kimi had chance of winning).

If they had a different team principal and whoever is responsible for strategy, then they would be a championship contender.

Partly agree.
For me, Lotus is a mid field team with ONE top driver.
Imagine Lotus having 2*Gro in the team? Lotus would have a whopping 82 points = mid field team!!!

And with a different team principal Lotus would have replaced Gro with a more consistent driver. Without TWO drivers taking points from competitors, Kimi will never win the championship - regardless of perfect strategy!

#44 Kelateboy

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:16

One of the top teams. What is lacking is the money and they need to secure a corporate sponsor - one of those Fortune 500 companies.

#45 2ms

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:25

Imagine Lotus having 2*Gro in the team? Lotus would have a whopping 82 points = mid field team!!!
strategy!


Indeed, without Kimi we'd be talking about whether or not they're as good as Torro Rosso and Force India.

#46 sopa

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:33

The answer depends on how one defines different classes of teams and this is very subjective. For some 'top' will mean just challenging for podiums on pace most of the time, while others for example will add an additional caveat of capitalizing on their strongest pace showings more often than not which Lotus frustratingly doesn't do (strategy mistakes and qualifying struggles being the two most evident obstacles to that). As for money, some will say that raising it to a top-like level so that the lack of it isn't a hindrance is actually an inherent part of being a top team.

For me Lotus as a team is neither top nor midfield. Their performances actually kind of defined an 'almost top' class for me which I'd call an intermediate state between 'top' and 'leader of midfield' - more often than not being there or thereabouts podium territory but not maximizing their chances most of the time, hardly ever struggling to be quick enough for solid points and occasionally showing race winning pace.


Yeah, "half-top team". Like BMW in 2007-2008, Renault in 2003-2004. Or even Ferrari in 2011.:p Can't claim they are exactly in midfield. They are well above midfield.

#47 Ze Bum

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 21:28

The situation with Lotus is bizarre!!?? But you are not sure if this really a Lotus team or not?

Raikkonen drives a Renault RS for publicity demonstrations, but never a Exige S or Evora S!?? :confused:


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