36 replies to this topic

[Seanspeed]

Is there any indication that the tires and guidelines used for the German GP didn't solve the issues? I missed the practice sessions, but as far as I'm aware, there wasn't one tire issue all weekend was there?

If so, why change things further?

Just to be on the safe side?

[Vesuvius]

good question, everybody besides Mercedes seemed ok with the tyres, Lotus said new tyres are much better than the old ones There was no safety issues at all so I don't see any point changing them really but Pirelli will do it anyway it seems :/

Edited by Vesuvius, 08 July 2013 - 19:38.

[Atreiu]

Is there any indication that the tires and guidelines used for the German GP didn't solve the issues? I missed the practice sessions, but as far as I'm aware, there wasn't one tire issue all weekend was there?

If so, why change things further?

Just to be on the safe side?

I think Hungaroring and Nurburgring aren't that much comparable to Silverstone. So even if this weekend it all went fine, I presume they still want to be entirely sure there will be no problems at Spa or any of the other faster tracks. They've had enough bad press with tyres failing for the most various reasons this year. Better be safe than sorry.

Edited by Atreiu, 08 July 2013 - 19:45.

[SamH123]

Maybe the German ones are just inconvenient for Pirelli in some way, whether it be cost of production, speed of production, ease of creating them all similar

So the German GP tires were kevlar belt (2012), 2013 rubber, what is the difference again for Hungary? There's some other property more similar to 2012 but I've forgotten what...

Edited by SamH123, 08 July 2013 - 19:46.

[MortenF1]

I don't understand why you ask that question. Silverstone still happened.
With Spa, Monza, Suzuka coming up, the need was for a more sound construction.
(Obviously.)

[quaint]

I don't understand why you ask that question. Silverstone still happened.
With Spa, Monza, Suzuka coming up, the need was for a more sound construction.
(Obviously.)

They already changed the construction for Germany. OP, I think, questioned the need to change it any further.

Edited by quaint, 08 July 2013 - 19:58.

[Seanspeed]

I think Hungaroring and Nurburgring aren't that much comparable to Silverstone. So even if this weekend it all went fine, I presume they still want to be entirely sure there will be no problems at Spa or any of the other faster tracks. They've had enough bad press with tyres failing for the most various reasons this year. Better be safe than sorry.

Yea, I guess so.

And they're probably pretty far along with the manufacturing of the tires obviously, so its not like it would save them money in the end.

[MortenF1]

They already changed the construction for Germany. OP, I think, questioned the need to change it any further.

That was a quick fix. Permanent, sound changes from Hungary on.

[EthanM]

The rear tyres in Germany were 2013 pattern (ie asymmetrical) but with a kevlar belt instead of the 2013 steel belt and 2013 compounds.
The rear tyres in Hungary will be 2012 pattern (ie symmetrical) and construction (ie kevlar belt) with 2013 compounds

Front tyres remain the same as all season

[Seanspeed]

The rear tyres in Germany were 2013 pattern (ie asymmetrical) but with a kevlar belt instead of the 2013 steel belt and 2013 compounds.
The rear tyres in Hungary will be 2012 pattern (ie symmetrical) and construction (ie kevlar belt) with 2013 compounds

Front tyres remain the same as all season

While I didn't know the rears were the only things being changed(thanks for that info), I was more talking about if changes were necessary, not what the changes were specifically.

[Szoelloe]

Is there any indication that the tires and guidelines used for the German GP didn't solve the issues? I missed the practice sessions, but as far as I'm aware, there wasn't one tire issue all weekend was there?

If so, why change things further?

Just to be on the safe side?

Actually, it is kind of food for thought. I was confused about this too. As Atreiu indicated, the only possible reasoning is that the kevlar belt itself is not enough, and there are more aspects to consider when higher loads come into play. It would be a farce if Pirelli would further change the tires just to entertain Mercedes and Red Bull, as they were the ones who suggested returning to 2012 spec as a solution initially. I don't think that is in any way in Pirelli's interest, and I would not like to question their integrity.

[MortenF1]

I believe the first to go public with that suggestion -going back to last years construction - was Martin Whitmarsh.

[Seanspeed]

Actually, it is kind of food for thought. I was confused about this too. As Atreiu indicated, the only possible reasoning is that the kevlar belt itself is not enough, and there are more aspects to consider when higher loads come into play. It would be a farce if Pirelli would further change the tires just to entertain Mercedes and Red Bull, as they were the ones who suggested returning to 2012 spec as a solution initially. I don't think that is in any way in Pirelli's interest, and I would not like to question their integrity.

Nah, I really doubt its being done to favor anybody or out of some weak giving in to complaints. Probably more that they already had this planned and the German GP solution was just a bandaid, but sometimes a bandaid is really all that's needed.

What you're talking about isn't really a concern to me, but I know that it might be seen like that to others. Basically, I think the best solution would be the one that solves the issues, but also doesn't change things so much as to bring doubt into people's minds about how its affecting the championship. Nobody, not Red Bull fans or Ferrari fans, wants anything feeling 'tainted'. Of course, its yet to be seen if this actually affects the hierarchy at all, but if it does, you know there will be people making noise about it.

[EthanM]

While I didn't know the rears were the only things being changed(thanks for that info), I was more talking about if changes were necessary, not what the changes were specifically.

and you expect people on the internet to have an opinion based on what? our intricate familiarity with and understanding of Pirelli tyre data?
Pirelli and the teams are the only ones who know whether the problems were fixed or not. The fact so far nobody is complaining about the Hungaroring change suggests they are happy the change is necessary .

[Seanspeed]

and you expect people on the internet to have an opinion based on what? our intricate familiarity with and understanding of Pirelli tyre data?
Pirelli and the teams are the only ones who know whether the problems were fixed or not. The fact so far nobody is complaining about the Hungaroring change suggests they are happy the change is necessary .

Sometimes people know more than I do(like in your case with the changes only being for the rears). Perhaps the German GP solution was still creating worry for whatever reason and I just hadn't heard about it.

I don't know man. Like Szoelloe said, it was just some food for thought.

[Vesuvius]

and you expect people on the internet to have an opinion based on what? our intricate familiarity with and understanding of Pirelli tyre data?
Pirelli and the teams are the only ones who know whether the problems were fixed or not. The fact so far nobody is complaining about the Hungaroring change suggests they are happy the change is necessary .

Lotus has already complained, they said the new tyres used at germany were great and they want to keep them.

[EthanM]

Sometimes people know more than I do(like in your case with the changes only being for the rears). Perhaps the German GP solution was still creating worry for whatever reason and I just hadn't heard about it.

I don't know man. Like Szoelloe said, it was just some food for thought.

I just think Germany, and Hungary and whatever are inconsequential. They saw the Silvertone loads, they have data from previous years on all tracks they can baseline the loads on Silverstone and decide what they need for the "serious" tracks in terms tyre loads (ie Spa and Suzuka) and they build based on that knowledge. Not on the fact the interim solution was good enough for Germany, on a solution that will be good enough in a couple of months when the tyres get stressed again.

[Ricardo F1]

I believe the first to go public with that suggestion -going back to last years construction - was Martin Whitmarsh.

I emphatically back Martin Whitmarsh for a new role at Pirelli!

[DutchQuicksilver]

good question, everybody besides Mercedes seemed ok with the tyres, Lotus said new tyres are much better than the old ones There was no safety issues at all so I don't see any point changing them really but Pirelli will do it anyway it seems :/

Force India not happy either.

[EthanM]

Lotus has already complained, they said the new tyres used at germany were great and they want to keep them.

I don't think they complained, they just said the tyres they didnt want introduced and fought against a month ago in Canada turned up to be better for them than the tyres they wanted to hang on to.

[MortenF1]

I emphatically back Martin Whitmarsh for a new role at Pirelli!

...two flies in one smack.

[weltmeister1995]

YES!

[jonpollak]

I say give the hungry food..NOT TYRES!!!
Jp

[plumtree]

Would it be terribly wrong to think Mercedes and Force India's performance hit last weekend had more to do with tyre swapping ban rather than with the construction change itself? A few interviews seem to suggest such.

As for further change favouring Red Bull, it was reported several times that their problems with this year's tyres are related to front tyres which Pirelli never had any intention to modify. I highly doubt Pirelli would be willing to listen to what Red Bull want.

Edited by plumtree, 08 July 2013 - 21:56.

[HammyHamiltonFan]

how else can the FIA make sure Vettel isn't challenged for wins? they must have nearly **** themselves when Kimi was catching him!

[Deluxx]

Honestly I don't know what F1 needs anymore. Silverstone was boring because everyone popped. Germany was boring because it was still about TIRES TIRES TIRES. Meh

I say give the hungry food..NOT TYRES!!!
Jp

Such a simple solution...

[fabr68]

Mercedes probably feels ripped off. As the Germany tires were nothing like the ones tested with their 2013 car at Barcelona.

Maybe Pirelli had no idea the tires for Germany were going to totally solve the issue and called it temporary just in case. This way they had a way out with the Hungary tire construction, which will most likely be the 2012 tires the Red Bull car loves so much.

[Deluxx]

I don't understand why they can't develop a tire that lasts through a season... changing them mid season when the races matter more makes no sense to the championship...

[ExFlagMan]

I don't understand why they can't develop a tire that lasts through a season... changing them mid season when the races matter more makes no sense to the championship...

Now that would be an interesting challenge for the teams -though I know several club FF1600 drivers who try to make one set last a season, 'cos that's all they can afford.

[Mtom]

The coming tyres will be symmetrical. So the tire swapping ban stays, or they can change them again?

[Haribo]

I don't understand why they can't develop a tire that lasts through a season... changing them mid season when the races matter more makes no sense to the championship...

That should be the new aim for Pirelli - develop a tyre that will last for the whole season! If I can get 17,000 miles out of my Pirellis then it should be easy

ExFlagMan beat me to it

Edited by Haribo, 09 July 2013 - 08:24.

[Mauseri]

The coming tyres will be symmetrical. So the tire swapping ban stays, or they can change them again?

If the tyres are symmetrical, the lefts and rights are identical and come from same product line. No benefit to be gained from swapping.

[redreni]

If the tyres are symmetrical, the lefts and rights are identical and come from same product line. No benefit to be gained from swapping.

Yes there is, because on a cclockwise track a part-worn set will have more wear on the left than the right. If you need to use that set again there‘s an advantage to swapping because then you put the less worn tyres on the left.

[Mtom]

If the tyres are symmetrical, the lefts and rights are identical and come from same product line. No benefit to be gained from swapping.

They usually changed them after qualy, so they had different wear and stress points, hence they last longer.

[Vesuvius]

If the tyres are symmetrical, the lefts and rights are identical and come from same product line. No benefit to be gained from swapping.

Ross Brawn already said (autosport interview) that Mercedes did benefit from the tyre swapping and because it's now forbidden they are now in trouble again.

[Mauseri]

Yes there is, because on a cclockwise track a part-worn set will have more wear on the left than the right. If you need to use that set again there‘s an advantage to swapping because then you put the less worn tyres on the left.

Ok.

[Deluxx]

Now that would be an interesting challenge for the teams -though I know several club FF1600 drivers who try to make one set last a season, 'cos that's all they can afford.

That should be the new aim for Pirelli - develop a tyre that will last for the whole season! If I can get 17,000 miles out of my Pirellis then it should be easy

ExFlagMan beat me to it

http://www.paranerdo...ndo-400x266.jpg

I meant one tire compound, but I think you guys knew what I meant

It seems like every year halfway through the season, they change the tires and it changes the whole season

Edited by Deluxx, 09 July 2013 - 13:17.