88 replies to this topic

[apoka]

The "Alonso wants Vettel at Ferrari" story is now here as well:
http://www.sport1.de...kel_745820.html
I guess it will soon be picked up by the English speaking media.

[4MEN]

What's going to happen to Alonso in 2015?

I'm still trying to figure out what shirt I am wearing today much less what Fernando will do in 15.

[Mr.Wayne]

Ferrari will be his last team, he stated that in an interview iirc.

He also stated that he would never drive for Ferrari, and that winning with Ferrari had less merits... and now look at him!

[Mr.Wayne]

The "Alonso wants Vettel at Ferrari" story is now here as well:
http://www.sport1.de...kel_745820.html
I guess it will soon be picked up by the English speaking media.

but then we also have this quote from the bbc article earlier on the thread:

But sources close to Ferrari now say the Spaniard and the team renegotiated their agreement towards the end of last season and that one of Alonso's demands was that they not sign Vettel alongside him.

So... which way is it? given his story with Hamilton, and his alleged condition on Massa instead of Raikkonen when he moved to Ferrari, I would say the veto on Vettel is more likely than his request for having him alongside.

[2ms]

Whatever Ferrari decide, I'm sure Alonso will be in the press saying it's what he wanted.

[Sin]

but then we also have this quote from the bbc article earlier on the thread:



So... which way is it? given his story with Hamilton, and his alleged condition on Massa instead of Raikkonen when he moved to Ferrari, I would say the veto on Vettel is more likely than his request for having him alongside.

well o.o the Alonso would like Vettel at Ferrari is the newer story, cause it's from today... what that means... you gotta think about that yourself...
its not like he must be speaking the truth... maybe he changed his opinion, maybe he is just talking
he might just be saying what the journalist he is talking to wants to hear... germans like Seb

Edited by Sin, 10 July 2013 - 17:56.

[rasul]

The "Alonso wants Vettel at Ferrari" story is now here as well:
http://www.sport1.de...kel_745820.html
I guess it will soon be picked up by the English speaking media.

There's nothing new about his words. It's obvious that he was asked about partnering with Vettel by the German media; what was he supposed to say? That Vettel shouldn't go to Ferrari? That he doesn't want him there? No driver would ever admit it.
And then it's his usual self-praise, and mind games about Newey.

“I am satisfied with myself and with my performance,” he agreed. ”When I won my two titles, I felt the recognition of being regarded seriously as a good driver.”
“Today I am seen as one of the best drivers, although I have not won another title since then,” added Alonso.
“Yes, every great champion should drive for Ferrari if he has the opportunity.”
“Formula 1 without Ferrari is inconceivable, but that doesn’t apply to other teams that come and go.
“Some auto makers come in and then go out again,” said Alonso. “The same for some private teams and energy drink manufacturers.”
Alonso’s last comment is a direct jibe at Red Bull, and indeed he said he would welcome Vettel as his teammate in red, and Adrian Newey as the designer of his Ferrari.
“I want to work with the best people,” said the 31-year-old, “so if I said I didn’t want Newey on the team, I’d be lying.”

[Briz]

I think IF for some reason he is forced out of Ferrari he will not retire. He lives for racing, I don't think he will quit before he is 38-40. He will find another team easy and will be happy to keep racing.

[TheThirdTenor1]

well o.o the Alonso would like Vettel at Ferrari is the newer story, cause it's from today... what that means... you gotta think about that yourself...
its not like he must be speaking the truth... maybe he changed his opinion, maybe he is just talking
he might just be saying what the journalist he is talking to wants to hear... germans like Seb

The german article that apoka posts actually has quotes from Alonso, as opposed to the bbc article which had no quotes from Alonso or any team member, just a "sources close to Ferrari" (i.e. simply a rumour).

Alonso also says he wants Newey at Ferrari at the end of the article.

[as65p]

but then we also have this quote from the bbc article earlier on the thread:

What quote?

[as65p]

Whatever Ferrari decide, I'm sure Alonso will be in the press saying it's what he wanted.

And whatever Alonso says or does, I'm sure you'll be propagating how Vettel could say or do it better.

[TheThirdTenor1]

I'm always amazed how 2ms managed to get such vast knowledge of the inner workings at Ferrari, particularly those related to Alonso.

[tomisumi]

Ferrari have to try bring Newey, maybe that´s the way to retain Alonso...

[Higli]

If Ferrari had the freedom, they would have replaced Massa with Vettel a long time ago.

Why would Vettel want to join Ferrari?

As a driver you always want the best car and he has had that since 2009.

[2ms]

Exactly, Ferrari don't have the freedom to get Vettel for several reasons, not the least of which is the one that he has no interest in going there.

[RealRacing]

“I am satisfied with myself and with my performance,” he agreed. ”When I won my two titles, I felt the recognition of being regarded seriously as a good driver.”
“Today I am seen as one of the best drivers, although I have not won another title since then,” added Alonso.
“Yes, every great champion should drive for Ferrari if he has the opportunity.”
“Formula 1 without Ferrari is inconceivable, but that doesn’t apply to other teams that come and go.
“Some auto makers come in and then go out again,” said Alonso. “The same for some private teams and energy drink manufacturers.”
Alonso’s last comment is a direct jibe at Red Bull, and indeed he said he would welcome Vettel as his teammate in red, and Adrian Newey as the designer of his Ferrari.
“I want to work with the best people,” said the 31-year-old, “so if I said I didn’t want Newey on the team, I’d be lying.”

Samurai

"I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would damage me."

Edited by RealRacing, 10 July 2013 - 20:04.

[Sin]

Samurai

it aren't the full quotes tho

“Yes, every great champion should drive for Ferrari if he has the opportunity.”

he actually said

“Yes, every great champion should drive for Ferrari if he has the opportunity, that includes Sebastian.”

and

„Sebastian macht den besten Job. Also liegt er vorne.“

"Sebastian does the best job, so he is in the front."

and

„Ich glaube, wir respektieren uns beide sehr, und für das Team wäre es gut, wenn wir beide zusammen fahren würden. Allein, weil wir so die Perfomance des Autos und auch die Punkte maximieren könnten. Fakt ist: Ich werde noch einige Jahre für Ferrari fahren und jeden Teamkollegen akzeptieren, den Ferrari will. Auch die Kombination mit Sebastian.“

"I think we both respect each other very much and for the team it would be good if we two would be driving together. Simply because we could maximize the performance of the car and the points like this. Fact is: I will be still driving for Ferrari for a few years and accept every teammate Ferrari wants. Also the combination with Sebastian."

[Mr.Wayne]

What quote?

article: http://www.bbc.co.uk...la-one/21305374

and quote from the aforementioned article

But sources close to Ferrari now say the Spaniard and the team renegotiated their agreement towards the end of last season and that one of Alonso's demands was that they not sign Vettel alongside him.

Of course, if that is in writing, is very easy to come to the media and say "I am the best, he could join me" knowing fully well that there is a clause preventing it from happening... As mentioned earlier on this thread, Alonso said he wanted Vettel when he was talking to the german media, and even in that case, he sent more praising lines towards Newey than towards Vettel. What people seems to forget is that there are two drivers driving Newey cars. Only one of them with a real shot at the championship since 2011... And the other one, has not finished P2 in the WDC in either of the championship years. Yes, Newey is very good. But he needs a very good driver to deliver the goods as well.

[yr]

Alonso´s words about Newey are well appreciated by Ferrari technical team I´ll bet. Its like Ferrari engineers would give an interview: "Yeah, we would love to have Vettel, we would like to work with best".

[apoka]

There's nothing new about his words. It's obvious that he was asked about partnering with Vettel by the German media; what was he supposed to say? That Vettel shouldn't go to Ferrari? That he doesn't want him there? No driver would ever admit it.

For me, it's the first time that he seems to really entertain the idea of Vettel joining him at Ferrari. "I think we both respect each other very much and for the team it would be good if we two would be driving together. Simply because we could maximize the performance of the car and the points like this. Fact is: I will be still driving for Ferrari for a few years and accept every teammate Ferrari wants. Also the combination with Sebastian." First, he says that it would be good to have him in the team, he also seems to be aware that Ferrari could get more points this way (second sentence), instead of his support of Massa in previous interviews.

One reason for him saying this could be that Ferrari is close to a deal with Vettel. Another reason could, of course, be that he wants to fight/beat a 3+ times WDC (who wouldn't), especially now that Vettel is a WDC favourite for this year after the last race.

[as65p]

article: http://www.bbc.co.uk...la-one/21305374

and quote from the aforementioned article

Ah, that kind of 'quote'. A journo spreading a rumour. Of course that widens the scope considerably. Almost infinite in fact....

Of course, if that is in writing, is very easy to come to the media and say "I am the best, he could join me" knowing fully well that there is a clause preventing it from happening... As mentioned earlier on this thread, Alonso said he wanted Vettel when he was talking to the german media, and even in that case, he sent more praising lines towards Newey than towards Vettel. What people seems to forget is that there are two drivers driving Newey cars. Only one of them with a real shot at the championship since 2011... And the other one, has not finished P2 in the WDC in either of the championship years. Yes, Newey is very good. But he needs a very good driver to deliver the goods as well.

There are quite a few very good drivers in F1.

[as65p]

Alonso´s words about Newey are well appreciated by Ferrari technical team I´ll bet. Its like Ferrari engineers would give an interview: "Yeah, we would love to have Vettel, we would like to work with best".

Yeah, the engineers ought to be at least as miffed as with a driver telling them to leave him alone.

[yr]

Yeah, the engineers ought to be at least as miffed as with a driver telling them to leave him alone.

[fabr68]

There's nothing new about his words. It's obvious that he was asked about partnering with Vettel by the German media; what was he supposed to say? That Vettel shouldn't go to Ferrari? That he doesn't want him there? No driver would ever admit it.
And then it's his usual self-praise, and mind games about Newey.

At least Alonso did not say that "it was not realistic"

[swerved]

Yeah, the engineers ought to be at least as miffed as with a driver telling them to leave him alone.

Absolutely.

[seahawk]

One could read Alonso´s quotes more like a hint to Ferrari that he wants Massa gone, than as an invitation for Vettel. The most obvious thing in this quotes is that it seems like Alonso feels the burden of being the team´s only hope.

[rasul]

At least Alonso did not say that "it was not realistic"

Huh?
I don't remember anyone saying that "it was not realistic." Or do you mean Vettel's words about how he "doesn't know how realistic it is that Kimi will join Red Bull"? Which is not the same at all.

[JHSingo]

It does amaze me how Ferrari have been so incredibly average for quite a few years now.

They either start the year well and can't close the deal out for whatever reason, or just produce an absolute stinker of a car.

If Fernando does get frustrated and leaves, well, I for one won't be the least bit surprised.

Edited by JHSingo, 11 July 2013 - 11:17.

[discover23]

but then we also have this quote from the bbc article earlier on the thread:



So... which way is it? given his story with Hamilton, and his alleged condition on Massa instead of Raikkonen when he moved to Ferrari, I would say the veto on Vettel is more likely than his request for having him alongside.

British media is not reliable with respect to Alonso. The make sh&* up as they go.
Reliable sources.. .. How about gives us a quote.

[krea]

I am not an Alonso fan, but if Ferrari believes that another driver can help them, shouldn't they think about replacing Massa first?

The thought of Massa staying while Schumacher, Kimi and Alonso leave is interesting though.

The problem is that they don't get a good replacement for Massa because Alonso would block all good drivers.

[tkulla]

The problem is that they don't get a good replacement for Massa because Alonso would block all good drivers.

If he has that kind of power officially. It's more likely that they give him a veto in an effort to keep him happy. But at this point they may feel they're hand is being forced, especially if Red Bull sign Kimi to replace Mark. I could see him not being too threatened by Jenson, for instance, and not making a big fuss if the team wanted to sign him. I can't remember Alonso talking up Button at all now that I think about it so he may not rate him.

[kosmos]

The problem is that they don't get a good replacement for Massa because Alonso would block all good drivers.

Yeah because Alonso want shitty drivers that can't help him and take point from his rivals. He want a teammate that make him look good instead of a teammate that helps him to win the WDC

Ferrari tried to hire Button and Webber, so according to you this two are not good drivers

Edited by kosmos, 11 July 2013 - 15:11.

[Deerfield]

Yeah because Alonso want shitty drivers that can't help him and take point from his rivals. He want a teammate that make him look good instead of a teammate that helps him to win the WDC

Ferrari tried to hire Button and Webber, so according to you this two are not good drivers

it's a fact Ferrari driver policy is the same from Schumacher era: a star 1st driver and a mediocre 2nd. The 1st has choice rights on engineers and 2nd driver, the 2nd driver could never take away the spotlight from the 1st. I don't see any reason this same veto power hasn't been allowed to Alonso.

So, Massa stayed all these years to Maranello, despite his subpar results and universal hate of tifosi, thanks to 3 elements (choose in what importance order):

1) he's good for Alonso
2) his manager is a certain Nicolas Todt, son of a certain Jean..
3) he's brazilian, and Brazil for Fiat is the last and only profitable market

[TheThirdTenor1]

it's a fact Ferrari driver policy is the same from Schumacher era: a star 1st driver and a mediocre 2nd.

This is not a fact. It's simply what you like to think.

[ardbeg]

I don't really buy the 'veto' theory. Giving a driver a the right to decide who shouldbe in the other car is pretty... stupid. "I want Ricardo Rosset, you hear me RICARDO ROSSET! I will veto all other suggestions".

Of course, Alonso has a say and I am sure Ferrari will hear him out, but eventually they will make their decision based on what is good for Ferrari, not on what is good for Fernando.

[TheThirdTenor1]

I don't really buy the 'veto' theory. Giving a driver a the right to decide who shouldbe in the other car is pretty... stupid. "I want Ricardo Rosset, you hear me RICARDO ROSSET! I will veto all other suggestions".

Of course, Alonso has a say and I am sure Ferrari will hear him out, but eventually they will make their decision based on what is good for Ferrari, not on what is good for Fernando.

[Deerfield]

logically, Alonso, like Schumi in the past, weren't so stupid to ask for a 2nd driver so slow and embrassing to ruin everything, so no Rosset or Inoue. Come on, let's keep real, don't treat them like children. What I'm trying to say (and mind you english isn't my language) is: IMO in Ferrari everything revolves around 1st driver, 2nd is a support. Fast enough to support 1st, but not too fast to embarass him. I'm not saying Alonso choose directly his 2nd driver, but for sure his opinion has a good weight cause it's implicit the 2nd driver will always be someone who will never take away the spotlight from the superstar and he will never be a real worry to 1st.

If you think I'm making all this up, good but please for enjoyment read a post appeared in this section some hours ago (link): there are the contracts of Senna and Piquet in 1987. It's stated specifically what the 2nd driver could and couldn't do, the code of conduit he must observe, the assumption 1st driver will and must always be preferred to 2nd, etc. All this in 87. Go figure today. Ferrari has always had this tradition and I see no proofs it's changed. Do you really think people like Irvine, Barrichello, Massa were chosen cause they were the best of the best on the market?

[garoidb]

it's a fact Ferrari driver policy is the same from Schumacher era: a star 1st driver and a mediocre 2nd. The 1st has choice rights on engineers and 2nd driver, the 2nd driver could never take away the spotlight from the 1st. I don't see any reason this same veto power hasn't been allowed to Alonso.

Did Schumacher have a say on the recruitment of Kimi?

[Gilles4Ever]

There is no discussion of 2015 and beyond.