90 replies to this topic

[swerved]

Wonder if there's any truth in this, and who's the Ex F1 boss ?.

http://www.motorspor...-f1-war-report/

[David1976]

Wonder if there's any truth in this, and who's the Ex F1 boss ?.

http://www.motorspor...-f1-war-report/

If true this could destabilise Mercedes at a time when all concerned need no more distractions or concerns about power battles at the top of the orgnaization.

[Szoelloe]

If true this could destabilise Mercedes at a time when all concerned need no more distractions or concerns about power battles at the top of the orgnaization.

motorsportdotcom, eh? It is most probably BS on the square

[swerved]

If true this could destabilise Mercedes at a time when all concerned need no more distractions or concerns about power battles at the top of the orgnaization.

I suspect it could do that even if it weren't true

Might be BS, but this is F1 after all.

[Sakae]

Intricacies of F1 life...

[ZooL]

Wonder if there's any truth in this, and who's the Ex F1 boss ?.

http://www.motorspor...-f1-war-report/

Somebody is trying to destabilise team Mercedes because of their rising to the top, increase in budget, high profile recruitment drive and leadership of a proven winner in Brawn. They are seen as a big threat and we can all see how harsh the other teams are treating them. The step from 2012 to 2013 has been massive and one would expect a similar large leap will be made again in 2014 as the structure beds down.

It's games-man-ship in F1 to destabilise the team. I doubt it's true. That is a lot of topics discussed in 1 phone conversation makes it seem fabricated!

Edited by ZooL, 17 July 2013 - 09:35.

[swerved]

Somebody is trying to destabilise team Mercedes because of their rising to the top, increase in budget, high profile recruitment drive and leadership of a proven winner in Brawn. They are seen as a big threat and we can all see how harsh the other teams are treating them. The step from 2012 to 2013 has been massive and one would expect a similar large leap will be made again in 2014 as the structure beds down.

It's games-man-ship in F1 to destabilise the team.

They haven't risen to the top yet, and as for how harsh the other teams are treating them well perhaps they deserve some of the scorn and sly remarks as much as Red Bull, Ferrari, or any other teams do when they erm, bend the rules, but thats a subject already well covered.

If there is any truth in it the natural question to ask is "what would anyone hope to gain" and why an Ex F1 boss ?

Even if it isn't true it seems a little more serious than the normal one team hinting another is circumventing the rules.

[CHIUNDA]

Wonder if there's any truth in this, and who's the Ex F1 boss ?.

http://www.motorspor...-f1-war-report/

If there is any truth in it, one assumes there is a reason why it has got this far out - meaning it will eventually all come out. Mercedes seems to be affected by corporate politics more than any other team in the paddock!

[Szoelloe]

They haven't risen to the top yet, and as for how harsh the other teams are treating them well perhaps they deserve some of the scorn and sly remarks as much as Red Bull, Ferrari, or any other teams do when they erm, bend the rules, but thats a subject already well covered.

If there is any truth in it the natural question to ask is "what would anyone hope to gain" and why an Ex F1 boss ?

Even if it isn't true it seems a little more serious than the normal one team hinting another is circumventing the rules.

Lauda is an ex-F1 boss

Edited by Szoelloe, 17 July 2013 - 09:55.

[swerved]

If there is any truth in it, one assumes there is a reason why it has got this far out - meaning it will eventually all come out. Mercedes seems to be affected by corporate politics more than any other team in the paddock!

As was predicted months and months ago by many if i recall correctly.

[swerved]

Lauda is an ex-F1 boss

Thats perfectly true, but then in others respects he still is one, and as i've just mentioned people said ages ago that the potential was there for a power struggle, when i said earlier that if true its more serious than the usual finger pointing and tale telling that most teams partake of perhaps a better word would have been more sinister, a whole different ball game imo.

Time will tell i suppose, my first thought was Briatore.

[Szoelloe]

Thats perfectly true, but then in others respects he still is one, and as i've just mentioned people said ages ago that the potential was there for a power struggle, when i said earlier that if true its more serious than the usual finger pointing and tale telling that most teams partake of perhaps a better word would have been more sinister, a whole different ball game imo.

Time will tell i suppose, my first thought was Briatore.

No, he is not. he has no say in running the team.

[pingu666]

there's eddie jordon too...

[Baddoer]

Wonder if there's any truth in this, and who's the Ex F1 boss ?.

http://www.motorspor...-f1-war-report/

Yet another journalist ****.

[alframsey]

I have a strong feeling this is all a load of bollocks! Still not to be reported in the mainstream F1 media as far as I know and we've heard nothing else on the matter.

Also I don't expect Merc to be that affected by their absence from the YDT and I fully expect us to be at the cutting edge come next race day.

[Szoelloe]

LOL, it was Kolles??? Anyway, it happened pre-season in February, so it is a non-issue.


http://www.f1zone.ne...il-wolff/19745/

[swerved]

LOL, it was Kolles??? Anyway, it happened pre-season in February, so it is a non-issue.


http://www.f1zone.ne...il-wolff/19745/

Its a big enough issue for Mercedes to obtain a court order preventing publication so its likely he must have said something fairly inflammatory.

What a dirty arsehole Kolles must be though to try and earn out of a recorded private conversation!!.

[Timstr11]

Never liked Kolles because of some of nasty remarks he made in the past.
If true, this confirms he is a very nasty person. Yuk.

Edited by Timstr11, 17 July 2013 - 17:01.

[Risil]

I'll show them! I will record everything!

Edited by Risil, 17 July 2013 - 17:23.

[caso]

There is an article in the printed version of Sport Bild. The article says, that because of a court's order they're not allowed to cite the report in question. Instead they settle for describing the surroundings of the 'file Wolff' (Akte Wolff).The journalist, Ralf Bach, states that someone passed him an envelope at the British Grand Prix. This envelope contained the report of a conversation between Kolles and Wolff. According to this document Wolff made some unfavorable comments about several people at Mercedes GP and the Daimler AG ("Jeder bekommt in dem Gesprächsprotokoll sein Fett weg." Translation: 'In this report, everyone is dealt with harshly.') and also talked about (team)internal matters (e.g. Ross Brawn's salary etc.). But the interesting part is another: Wolff spoke about 'his true influence on the day-to-day business at rival-team Williams' ("Er spricht über seinen wahren Einfluss auf das Tagesgeschäft des Konkurrenzteams Williams,..."). 'And he gives explosive details on his future plans for the Williams-investment away, which don't suggest that he wants to sell his shares (16 per cent), as Daimler demands' ("Und er gibt brisante Details über zukünftige Pläne für das Williams-Investment preis, die nicht darauf hindeuten, dass er die Aktien verkaufen will, wie Daimler von ihm fordert.").

Bach claims Colin Kolles confirmed the validity of the report during a phone call with him on monday, first of july. He states the conversation between Kolles and Wolff took place on the 18th of february in Barcelona. After the call copies of the document were sent to Dieter Zetsche (CEO, Daimler AG), Wolfgang Bernhard (member of the Board of Management, Daimler AG), Manfred Bischoff (chief of the Supervisory Board, Daimler AG) and Erich Klemm (member of the Supervisory Board, Daimler AG). At the German GP, Bach gave Niki Lauda another copy.

Edited by caso, 17 July 2013 - 18:16.

[Shiroo]

Never liked Kolles because of some of nasty remarks he made in the past.
If true, this confirms he is a very nasty person. Yuk.

He isn't nasty. He is a ****in douche.

[dau]

So all of this is based on a single Sport Bild journalist claiming to have received an envelope and then publishing the details?

Edit: Or rather, not publishing the details but just that Wolff said something about his Williams shared and the Merc top brass?

Edited by dau, 17 July 2013 - 18:41.

[Timstr11]

There is an article in the printed version of Sport Bild. The article says, that because of a court's order they're not allowed to cite the report in question. Instead they settle for describing the surroundings of the 'file Wolff' (Akte Wolff).The journalist, Ralf Bach, states that someone passed him an envelope at the British Grand Prix. This envelope contained the report of a conversation between Kolles and Wolff. According to this document Wolff made some unfavorable comments about several people at Mercedes GP and the Daimler AG ("Jeder bekommt in dem Gesprächsprotokoll sein Fett weg." Translation: 'In this report, everyone is dealt with harshly.') and also talked about (team)internal matters (e.g. Ross Brawn's salary etc.). But the interesting part is another: Wolff spoke about 'his true influence on the day-to-day business at rival-team Williams' ("Er spricht über seinen wahren Einfluss auf das Tagesgeschäft des Konkurrenzteams Williams,..."). 'And he gives explosive details on his future plans for the Williams-investment away, which don't suggest that he wants to sell his shares (16 per cent), as Daimler demands' ("Und er gibt brisante Details über zukünftige Pläne für das Williams-Investment preis, die nicht darauf hindeuten, dass er die Aktien verkaufen will, wie Daimler von ihm fordert.").

Bach claims Colin Kolles confirmed the validity of the report during a phone call with him on monday, first of july. He states the conversation between Kolles and Wolff took place on the 18th of february in Barcelona. After the call copies of the document were sent to Dieter Zetsche (CEO, Daimler AG), Wolfgang Bernhard (member of the Board of Management, Daimler AG), Manfred Bischoff (chief of the Supervisory Board, Daimler AG) and Erich Klemm (member of the Supervisory Board, Daimler AG). At the German GP, Bach gave Niki Lauda another copy.

Thanks for this.
Any info on what Kolles's motives were?

BTW: I think there is some truth to all of this. During coverage of the German GP on dutch TV, Christijan Albers alluded to Wolff's troubles with the Mercedes board. He had heard this from his contacts inside Mercedes. He did not go into details though.

Edited by Timstr11, 17 July 2013 - 18:40.

[KnucklesAgain]

As was predicted months and months ago by many if i recall correctly.

Not very difficult to predict that a huge corporation is susceptible to corporate politics.

[Timstr11]

It's Zetsche's own doing. Firing Haug and parachuting Lauda and Wolff into the team out of nowhere. There was no real need and it was bound to cause trouble. The team were already doing the right things to become competitive before these guys arrived. The Mercedes board should have been a bit more patient.

[P123]

So all of the people he spoke about apparently have a copy of what he said.

I wonder what Kolles hopes to gain, and strange for Wolff to be so candid with him.

[P123]

It's Zetsche's own doing. Firing Haug and parachuting Lauda and Wolff into the team out of nowhere. There was no real need and it was bound to cause trouble. The team were already doing the right things to become competitive before these guys arrived. The Mercedes board should have been a bit more patient.

They did it because they wanted to flog the previous AAbar holding to somebody else (in comes Wolff) and the poisoned dwarf would not negotiate with Brawn (still smarting from missing out on making money from the downfall of Honda), so in came Lauda.

[caso]

Thanks for this.
Any info on what Kolles's motives were?

Blackmail is mentioned ('Wolff claims Kolles requested a certain sum of money, otherwise he'd make explosive documents public';" Wolff behauptet, Kolles habe ihn aufgefordert, eine bestimmte Summe zu zahlen, sonst würde er brisante Dokumente an die Öffentlichkeit bringen"). It is also stated that Kolles and Wolff already resolved their conflict. 'The alleged reason [for the conflict] was a provision for Kolles, because he was said to have helped Wolff into Formula 1' ("Angeblich ging es um eine Provision für Kolles, weil er Wolff einst beim Einstieg in die Formel 1 behilflich gewesen sein soll").

Edited by caso, 17 July 2013 - 19:10.

[Timstr11]

They did it because they wanted to flog the previous AAbar holding to somebody else (in comes Wolff) and the poisoned dwarf would not negotiate with Brawn (still smarting from missing out on making money from the downfall of Honda), so in came Lauda.

Indeed.

I said it before and i'll say it again. Without Brawn I fear for the stability in this team.

[Timstr11]

Blackmail is mentioned ('Wolff claims Kolles requested a certain sum of money, otherwise he'd make explosive documents public';" Wolff behauptet, Kolles habe ihn aufgefordert, eine bestimmte Summe zu zahlen, sonst würde er brisante Dokumente an die Öffentlichkeit bringen"). It is also stated that Kolles and Wolff already resolved their conflict. 'The alleged reason for the conflict was a provision for Kolles, because he was said to have helped Wolff into Formula 1' ("Angeblich ging es um eine Provision für Kolles, weil er Wolff einst beim Einstieg in die Formel 1 behilflich gewesen sein soll").

So a dispute about money. Thx.
Reads like a movie script.

[caso]

BTW: I think there is some truth to all of this. During coverage of the German GP on dutch TV, Christijan Albers alluded to Wolff's troubles with the Mercedes board. He had heard this from his contacts inside Mercedes. He did not go into details though.

The journalist seems to be convinced of the genuineness of the document, otherwise he wouldn't have approached boardmembers.

[Risil]

The journalist seems to be convinced of the genuineness of the document, otherwise he wouldn't have approached boardmembers.

Was Toto smoking crack too?

[Ross Stonefeld]

This manages to beat DTM Watergate for surrealness.

[olliek88]

Personally i think Colin Kolles is an ass. This isn't the first time his behaviour has been less than scrupulous, i'd sooner do my own dentistry than trust him with my pearly(ish) whites...

[Timstr11]

motorsport-total.com claims to have received the transcript of the conversation several weeks ago but chose not to publish it as it would be unethical from a journalistic point of view.

When motorsport-total.com asked Diamler for a response, this was their reaction:

"Daimler weiß, dass die Formel 1 ein Haifischbecken mit gewöhnungsbedürftigen Umgangsformen ist. Das lässt uns jedoch kalt. Im Gegensatz dazu genießt Toto Wolff unser volles Vertrauen. Mercedes möchte, dass er seine erfolgreiche Arbeit fortsetzt", sagt Jörg Howe, Head of Global Communications der Daimler AG, auf Nachfrage von 'Motorsport-Total.com'.

Rough Google translation:

"Daimler knows that Formula 1 is a shark tank with getting used to manners. That leaves us but cold. Contrary to Toto Wolff has our full confidence. Mercedes wants him to continue his successful work," says Jörg Howe, Head of Global Communications Daimler AG, on demand of 'Motor-Total.com'.

Edited by Timstr11, 17 July 2013 - 19:24.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Unless you have a copy of the audio, you don't know what was said.

[swerved]

There is an article in the printed version of Sport Bild. The article says, that because of a court's order they're not allowed to cite the report in question. Instead they settle for describing the surroundings of the 'file Wolff' (Akte Wolff).The journalist, Ralf Bach, states that someone passed him an envelope at the British Grand Prix. This envelope contained the report of a conversation between Kolles and Wolff. According to this document Wolff made some unfavorable comments about several people at Mercedes GP and the Daimler AG ("Jeder bekommt in dem Gesprächsprotokoll sein Fett weg." Translation: 'In this report, everyone is dealt with harshly.') and also talked about (team)internal matters (e.g. Ross Brawn's salary etc.). But the interesting part is another: Wolff spoke about 'his true influence on the day-to-day business at rival-team Williams' ("Er spricht über seinen wahren Einfluss auf das Tagesgeschäft des Konkurrenzteams Williams,..."). 'And he gives explosive details on his future plans for the Williams-investment away, which don't suggest that he wants to sell his shares (16 per cent), as Daimler demands' ("Und er gibt brisante Details über zukünftige Pläne für das Williams-Investment preis, die nicht darauf hindeuten, dass er die Aktien verkaufen will, wie Daimler von ihm fordert.").

Bach claims Colin Kolles confirmed the validity of the report during a phone call with him on monday, first of july. He states the conversation between Kolles and Wolff took place on the 18th of february in Barcelona. After the call copies of the document were sent to Dieter Zetsche (CEO, Daimler AG), Wolfgang Bernhard (member of the Board of Management, Daimler AG), Manfred Bischoff (chief of the Supervisory Board, Daimler AG) and Erich Klemm (member of the Supervisory Board, Daimler AG). At the German GP, Bach gave Niki Lauda another copy.

Thanks for the translation


So now a few people in the team, and more importantly senior board members know exactly what Wolff thinks of them, that must make for interesting team briefings

[chrisj]

A quick summary of the call (from my imagination) --

Wolff:
"Lauda is a loose cannon that constantly creates turmoil."

"Brawn is a smart guy but is making more money than me. He must go."

"The Mercedes board is constantly meddling in the team's affairs. I need more control."

"Williams is a sinking ship, but I'm hanging onto my shares so my wife gets to drive the car."


Not exactly any revelations there.

[D.M.N.]

Joe Saward has a bit on this here: http://joesaward.wor...ers-of-bugging/

[wj_gibson]

Why would Kolles do that? I find it hard to believe he just did it spontaneosuly/opportunistically for no reason other than blackmail. "Ooh, I'm off to speak to Toto Wolff, I wonder if I can record it, have him say something juicy and then try to extort money form him as a result."

Kolles has been put up to this IMO.

[Szoelloe]

Why would Kolles do that? I find it hard to believe he just did it spontaneosuly/opportunistically for no reason other than blackmail. "Ooh, I'm off to speak to Toto Wolff, I wonder if I can record it, have him say something juicy and then try to extort money form him as a result."

Kolles has been put up to this IMO.

Put up to blackmail? No. No matter what the object of their dispute is, blackmail is digusting, and a crime.

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 July 2013 - 12:41.

[wj_gibson]

I never said otherwise, but Kolles is already a wealthy man. What does he need to be going around blackmailing people for?

[Szoelloe]

I never said otherwise, but Kolles is already a wealthy man. What does he need to be going around blackmailing people for?

Obviously he feels he is entitled to some money, or a senior position at a team with the help of Wolff. It's a major personality flaw, if you ask me. He's a jerk, in short.

[Scudetto]

Put up to blackmail? No. No matter what the object of their dispute is, blackmail is digusting, and a crime.

The "why" to blackmail is always money. But, the "why" I ask goes deeper. If Wolff said what he said to Kolles, then it sounds as though the two of them have the type of relationship where Wolff felt close enough to him that he could complain to/confide in Kolles. And if that's the case, why would Kolles attempt to shake down a friend/confidant?

Edited by Scudetto, 18 July 2013 - 15:02.

[Sakae]

The "why" to blackmail is always money. But, the "why" I ask goes deeper. If Wolff said what he said to Kolles, then it sounds as though the two of them have the type of relationship where Wolff felt close enough to him that he could complain to/confide in Kolles. And if that's the case, why would Kolles attempt to shake down a friend/confidant?

Isn't it illegal to tape covertly a private conversation?

[Lucass]

Isn't it illegal to tape covertly a private conversation?

Probably not everywhere
Weren't Kolles & Wolff pals from their DTM past?
I seem to remember a rumour that Kolles would leave HRT and join Wolff at Williams some years ago

[olliek88]

I never said otherwise, but Kolles is already a wealthy man. What does he need to be going around blackmailing people for?

Can't be that well off, his LMP2 outfit had their cars seized at Le Mans this year on court orders after a supplier/partner claimed they hadn't been paid, it was only a last minute agreement that led to them getting their cars back in time for the race.

[ExFlagMan]

Can't be that well off, his LMP2 outfit had their cars seized at Le Mans this year on court orders after a supplier/partner claimed they hadn't been paid, it was only a last minute agreement that led to them getting their cars back in time for the race.

That's probably how he got wealthy - 'forget' to pay your suppliers

[Ross Stonefeld]

Certainly wouldn't spend your own money on it.

[oetzi]

Maybe Wolff said something that actually shocked Kolles and a spark of conscience made him pass on the information?