52 replies to this topic

[Markn93]

With his testing for Red Bull, Daniel Ricciardo has now obviously driven two cars competing against one another in the same championship. It struck me as odd and was wondering how many times this has happened in the past, can only think of one example, ironically that of Ricciardo's potential team-mate Sebastien Vettel in 2007 driving both BMW and Torro Rosso.

I was also wondering about the repercussions of this, of course Ricciardo knows which elements of each car is better, he can compare the two (Ferrari and Renault) engines and their characteristics, traction for eg. But are there ways for him to immediately improve the Torro Rosso, based on driving a superior car?

[scheivlak]

With his testing for Red Bull, Daniel Ricciardo has now obviously driven two cars competing against one another in the same championship. It struck me as odd and was wondering how many times this has happened in the past, can only think of one example, ironically that of Ricciardo's potential team-mate Sebastien Vettel in 2007 driving both BMW and Torro Rosso.

Used to happen very, very often in the fifties and sixties, and still quite often in the seventies - the pre-Concorde era! After 1981 it became more rare.

We even had a WDC driving for more than one team in a winning year: Fangio won his 1954 title with Maserati and Mercedes.
Moss drove and won with a Rob Walker Cooper and a works Vanwall in 1958, and he drove private Coopers and BRMs in 1959. Bruce McLaren drove an Eagle in 1967 when his own 3 litre car wasn't ready. Privateer Jo Bonnier drove a works Honda in their farewell race in Mexico in 1968. Ferrari driver Jacky Ickx drove one-off for McLaren in 1973 when his team did not enter the German GP.

And so on......

[PEW]

Silverstone testing;2001 - in the morning Luciano Burti drove for Jaguar, as their race driver, lunchtime he moved his personal car down the paddock and appeared in Prost overalls.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Alonso tested a Jaguar in 2002.

Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 18 July 2013 - 18:33.

[jstrains]

Alonso tested a Jaguar in 2002.

Exactly. Luckily he did not stay with them, although he could have been a No. 2 driver at RBR now

Edited by jstrains, 18 July 2013 - 18:39.

[Gilles4Ever]

Schumacher Sauber 1997

[PayasYouRace]

Do you mean in any particular way? Drivers switching teams mid season has obviously been a common occurrence so I wonder if you mean in testing or something else that would make it more rare.

[jstrains]

Schumacher Sauber 1997

Wow. Interesting background information to this
http://richlandf1.com/?p=3929

Although the full reason behind Schumacher testing the Sauber C16 remains bleak, rumors at the time indicated that the Swiss outfit were struggling with balance issues. To try and sort out these issues, Sauber asked whether Michael Schumacher if he could test the car on low fuel runs so as to give the team his opinion on how best to conquer these recurring issues.

Edited by jstrains, 18 July 2013 - 18:42.

[Markn93]

Great pic of Schumi

[st99]

Sebastian Vettel also drove a Toro Rosso and a Red Bull in 2008.

Edited by st99, 18 July 2013 - 19:36.

[Collombin]

I can think of at least 3 drivers (namely Fangio, Moss and Surtees) who even won WDC races with 2 different teams in the same season.

[SpaceHorseParty]

Anthony Davidson was BAR's test driver, but drove two races for Minardi in 2002. Justin Wilson traded his Minardi for a Jaguar mid-season in 2003. Then we also have Trulli (Renault/Toyota) in 2004, Davidson (Super Aguri/Honda) in 2008, Fisi (Force India/Ferrari) and Alguersuari (Toro Rosso/Red Bull) in 2009, Heidfeld (Mercedes/Sauber) in 2010.

Ricciardo did a more impressive feat in 2011, he tested for Red Bull and Toro Rosso and drove for HRT (although it might be that he only tested simulators).

[g1n]

In 1994 Johnny Herbert drove for Lotus, Ligier and finished the season off in a Benetton.

[jee]

Frentzen and Alesi swapped cockpits at Jordan / Prost during the 2001 season
Roberto Moreno drove for EuroBrun and Benetton in 1990 and Benetton, Jordan and Minardi in 1991

Edited by jee, 18 July 2013 - 19:06.

[SkorbiF1]

I can think of at least 3 drivers (namely Fangio, Moss and Surtees) who even won WDC races with 2 different teams in the same season.

Nice find. Can you tell us which year exactly did Moss win his WDC?

[Gilles4Ever]

I can think of at least 3 drivers (namely Fangio, Moss and Surtees) who even won WDC races with 2 different teams in the same season.

Nice find. Can you tell us which year exactly did Moss win his WDC ?

WDC races

[PorcupineTroy]

Some cool pics in this thread. I think the OP is asking for examples of a driver driving one teams car while still employed by another, as oppose to a driver completely switching teams mid season.

[Wander]

A few obvious ones not yet mentioned:

In 1999 Mika Salo drove 3 races for BAR and was later hired by Ferrari to stand in for the injured Schumacher for 6 races.

Force India driver Giancarlo Fisichella drove 5 races for Ferrari in 2009.

Damon Hill both raced for Brabham and tested for Williams in 1992.

Jarno Trulli drove final 2 races of 2004 for Toyota after being kicked out of Renault.

[st99]

Some cool pics in this thread. I think the OP is asking for examples of a driver driving one teams car while still employed by another, as oppose to a driver completely switching teams mid season.

Well, technically Vettel was a Toro Rosso driver when he tested the RB4 in Jerez just a week after winning in Monza in 2008 but Red Bull had already announced that he would drive for them the following season.

[Markn93]

Some cool pics in this thread. I think the OP is asking for examples of a driver driving one teams car while still employed by another, as oppose to a driver completely switching teams mid season.

Not strictly, more so drivers who drove cars that competed against each other in that year's championship.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think Alonso is more in that category though. Guys switching teams don't really count, or at least aren't as interesting; likewise the revolving Red Bull/Toro Rosso doors.

[SkorbiF1]

Nice find. Can you tell us which year exactly did Moss win his WDC ?


WDC races

Ah sorry, My bad.

[midgrid]

Schumacher Sauber 1997

Schumacher also drove a Ligier at the end of the 1994 season in order to gain experience of the Renault engines to which Benetton were switching in 1995.

[MikeTekRacing]

fisico?

[garoidb]

Manfred Winkelhock in 1984, driving most of the season for ATS but competing in the last race for Brabham BMW (due to death of the father of Teo and Corrado Fabi).

[ApexMouse]

Schumacher in a Ligier : Yes, Really.

http://i.imgur.com/gWlAZKn.jpg

[Ross Stonefeld]

What's awesome about that is the car is still done up in the stickers of a conflicting sponsor(notice the Sauber is blank, even though it's really only an clashing oil company between the 97 cars).

[Juablo]

Frentzen and Alesi swapped cockpits at Jordan / Prost during the 2001 season
Roberto Moreno drove for EuroBrun and Benetton in 1990 and Benetton, Jordan and Minardi in 1991

Frentzen also subbed for Massa at the 2002 US GP after Arrows had gone bust

[John Player]

Andreas de Cesaris drove for Jordan and Sauber in 1994.

[zepunishment]

Obviously there's Schumacher's '91 debut as well.

[Zippel]

Button tested 3 cars within a 3 month period 1999-2000.

McLaren in November
Prost in December
Williams in January.

[Philip Lee KK]

driving 2 or more different cars in the same year is reasonably common but having 2 times for the same driver on the same timing screen is rare.

[Craven Morehead]

IIRC, I think Gilles drove for both McLaren and Ferrari in 1977.

[Andretti Fan]

In the 1969 British GP at Silverstone, Graham Hill finished 7th with the Lotus 49 and practiced the Lotus 63. At the same race meeting he also practiced in a Brabham BT26A, for MRD. Perhaps Sir Jack asked him to take the car out for a few laps just to give him a different perspective on it.

Now a days, you'd never see Alonso taking a Mercedes out for a spin to help out if they were struggling a little bit.

[jimjimjeroo]

Wasn't PDLR Sat around in McLaren overalls when Peter Sauber came knocking at the Canadian GP a few years ago when he subbed for the injured Perez

[Steve99]

Andreas de Cesaris drove for Jordan and Sauber in 1994.

'94 was a curious year, for de Cesaris, Herbert, Eric Bernard (Ligier &Lotus), JJ Lehto (Benneton & Sauber) and Phillipe Alliot (McLaren & Larrouse) all appeared for more than on team. If I remember correctly, only four teams that year kept the same two drivers throughout.

[Jackmancer]

As recently as 2009;
2009 saw Piquet being replaced by Grosjean, Massa by Badoer, who was later replaced by Fisichella who was replaced by Luizzi. Alquersauri replaced Bourdais.

[ensign14]

At Monaco 1960, Moss, who won the race in a Rob Walker Lotus, drove the gorgeous Scarab for a few laps in practice. Was two seconds faster than the regular driver.

And Moss went one better at the British GP in 1961 - he drove two entirely different marques in the race itself...

Edited by ensign14, 19 July 2013 - 07:23.

[PayasYouRace]

At Monaco 1960, Moss, who won the race in a Rob Walker Lotus, drove the gorgeous Scarab for a few laps in practice. Was two seconds faster than the regular driver.

And Moss went one better at the British GP in 1961 - he drove two entirely different marques in the race itself...

Which is less impressive when you find out they were both run by the same team.

[ApexOversteer]

IIRC, Jules Bianchi also did something similar....

[ensign14]

Which is less impressive when you find out they were both run by the same team.

If one wants to go even further, Mario Andretti, at the 1968 Rex Mays 300, drove:

-Brawner-Ford run by Clint Brawner;
-Lotus-P&W turbine run by Parnelli Jones;
-Mongoose-Ford run by Gene White.

[Collombin]

And still lost to Uncle Bobby in the championship. Bummer.

[ensign14]

And still lost to Uncle Bobby in the championship. Bummer.

11 points between them. And Bobby gained 12 on Mario on the Pikes Peak hillclimb. Wonder whether that had any effect on it being dropped from the trail sharpish.

[Collombin]

Sticking to WDC races, I suspect the relief fest of the 1954 Indy 500 contained a few mid race changes of team by drivers.

[noikeee]

We could be here all day.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Especially if we're going to use examples from 2009 where a car had multiple drivers, but most of the drivers listed only drove one type of car.

[Amphicar]

Bruce McLaren drove an Eagle in 1967 when his own 3 litre car wasn't ready.

Bruce McLaren actually drove an Eagle in three races in '67 - and the following year Dan Gurney returned the favour by driving a McLaren in three races after AAR's money ran out. Come to think of it, that year DSG drove three different cars for three different teams: the Eagle Mk 1 in five races for AAR, a McLaren M7A in three races for McLaren and a Brabham BT24 in one race for MRD - and that outing in the Brabham was the only one in which he scored points that year.

[scheivlak]

Bruce McLaren actually drove an Eagle in three races in '67 - and the following year Dan Gurney returned the favour by driving a McLaren in three races after AAR's money ran out. Come to think of it, that year DSG drove three different cars for three different teams: the Eagle Mk 1 in five races for AAR, a McLaren M7A in three races for McLaren and a Brabham BT24 in one race for MRD - and that outing in the Brabham was the only one in which he scored points that year.

I think you´ll find that he scored his points in one of his outings for McLaren, the 1968 US GP.

[Amphicar]

I think you´ll find that he scored his points in one of his outings for McLaren, the 1968 US GP.

Quite right - in fact he retired from the Dutch Grand Prix, which was his Brabham drive - funny how the memory plays tricks!

[scheivlak]

Quite right - in fact he retired from the Dutch Grand Prix, which was his Brabham drive - funny how the memory plays tricks!

Sure!

I was going to answer something like: "Maybe you mixed it up with the Dutch GP 2 years later"- then I checked and saw it was John Surtees who scored a point there and then in his privateer McLaren, and not Dan substituting for the occasion in a works car.