128 replies to this topic

[sopa]

I also miss a teams with an aura. I know, teams come and go. But I take Jordan, Ligier, Tyrrell, the original Minardi, etc. back any day. Hell, even Super Aguri had the potential to become a new Minardi, maybe Stewart could have become a team such as Sauber.

I see. This can be summed up that people miss charismatic team principals. This is what made classic teams. Who is the most interesting and charismatic team principal currently in F1? I dunno. How can we again get interesting new team leaders? Where have these people gone?

I know these days it is a bit different. People don't create racing teams and then gradually graduate to F1 level team, sort of like drivers. But this is how teams like Jordan, Sauber, Stewart, and others before them, emerged. Team principals had seen it all throughout racing and this is what made them interesting.

Nowadays businesses buy out teams and there is no gradual rise from feeder series. Horner and Bouiller have been TP's in feeder categories too though. But even then neither have really owned a team nor have had their name on the cars, but they have been the lead-guys of a team owned by a big company. Who knows, maybe that's why Horner's and Bouiller's teams are doing well. They have experienced the variety of motorsports more, so more in-depth knowledge...

Actually even in feeder series we often don't see founders' names often any more. Carlin is there for instance. But other than that we are also seeing more and more corporate and sponsorship based ownerships, junior team programmes, etc.

Overall it is not about tracks, drivers been PR-robots, teams, rules and regulations, etc. It is just the reality of the WORLD. Everything is developing into more corporate and we cannot help it, can we? So less soul in F1 too. In general. That's life mates

[F1ultimate]

F1 this year can be perceived as boring because it's just a transition year during which it's pretty given that Red Bull will win and their rivals will be just looking forward to starting a new era in 2014.

[DanardiF1]

That improved things a little bit... that was an excellent race.

[Disgrace]

That improved things a little bit... that was an excellent race.

Yet another race proving DRS is a complete crock of ****. Good racing comes with good overtaking and good defending.

[seahawk]

Boring is not the word, artificial is the correct word. The better your car worked with the orignal spec. 2013 tire, as tried in the winter tests, the more you are screwed as the season progressed. Look at FI, from nearly able to score a podium, to regularly scoring points, to being beaten by Williams. (merc is the other extreme)

[August]

I think that we've just been spoilt lately. In 2012 and 2010, we had brilliant tight title battles, and in 2011, despite Vettel's domination, there were some absolutely amazing races. This season's been far better than 2009, now that was a boring year.

I'd enjoy another 2009 with two new top teams and regular top teams struggling.

[tommi34]

By the way, Kimi said for Finnish TV when asked what would he change in F1, that he'd like to have 300BHP more. He said he'd like a little less grip and more power to make the cars a little bit more difficult to drive -> more entertaining racing.

[SenorSjon]

That is what you see every time. The cars are quite sterile because they have way more grip than power. You see almost no spins of the track these days. Massa was the only one this year I can recall. And it gets worse next year with less power yet again. A few years from now there will be an engine lockdown again so we can talk about tires and winglets all day long...

[DanardiF1]

That is what you see every time. The cars are quite sterile because they have way more grip than power. You see almost no spins of the track these days. Massa was the only one this year I can recall. And it gets worse next year with less power yet again. A few years from now there will be an engine lockdown again so we can talk about tires and winglets all day long...

The engines are rumoured to have 100bhp more than the current units..

[SenorSjon]

I've read that was only with ERS enabled, which isn't on all the time(?)

[spacekid]

Yet another race proving DRS is a complete crock of ****. Good racing comes with good overtaking and good defending.

Couldn't agree more.

My love of F1 is really more of a passing interest now. I'm going to avoid using the word artificial, and instead use 'contrived'.

Some might disagree, but giving me too much access to radio messages along the lines of 'lift in turn 3 to save the tyres' etc also kills it for me a bit. Perhaps it has ever been thus, but I find the idea of drivers being micro managed in terms of driving style during the race makes it a bit tedious for me.

Edit - just read some excellent posts above regarding F1 lacking 'soul' somehow. I completely agree. I just prefer the dirt and grit of mechanical parts and motor oil to microchips I guess.

Edited by spacekid, 28 July 2013 - 17:56.

[BoschKurve]

Yet another race proving DRS is a complete crock of ****. Good racing comes with good overtaking and good defending.

DRS was contrived **** for people with the attention span of a gnat.

Ironically the things like the silly putty tires, and DRS have actually been slowly killing my focus/interest.

There's nothing remotely fascinating about either things, and they continue to create a terrible environment.

Here's the reality of F1 in 2013. It has become so restrictive on all fronts from development to the technical/sporting regulations that it is not even remotely close to being interesting. The stupidity of restricting the number of engines allowed per season to restriction of engine development was the height of stupidity. F1 set itself apart in the past by specifically being open, and allowing different approaches to develop a car. It's soon to be another spec series. Those 2014 engines everyone is excited about are **** because if you look at them, they're regulated as well. There are no creative approaches to be had, and anyone hoping for some sort of 80s revival are going to find themselves disappointed. I'm amazed people keep parroting the whole "F1 needs to be road relevant" for success bullshit. It doesn't. What it does need is to be interesting on all fronts, something that will never come from the restrictive environment being peddled as somehow helpful for competition.

[F1Champion]

I think another reason could be that there is rarely an on track head to head battle with Vettel vs Hamilton vs Alonso. There have been a couple of Vettel vs Kimi, but only right at the end. I think normally you get the main challengers for the season battling very closely in a race. Today Hamilton was clear, Vettel was miles from Alonso and the only head to head was for 3-4 laps with Kimi and Vettel. I guess even if you did get a head to head, its cheapened by using DRS down the straight.

Edited by F1Champion, 28 July 2013 - 18:12.

[Massa_f1]

It's my the first year since following F1 in 1994 that I never really care if it is a race weekend or not. The calendar is so uneven stop start stop start. Apart from the obvious drivers who battle at the top year after year, the drivers coming through now seem to lack talent or personality. Races are not what they used to be in my opinion. F1 pundits can try all the like to convince me we have never had it so good, but it is not washing with this viewer.

[OO7]

By the way, Kimi said for Finnish TV when asked what would he change in F1, that he'd like to have 300BHP more. He said he'd like a little less grip and more power to make the cars a little bit more difficult to drive -> more entertaining racing.

I definitely agree about the 300bhp part.

[ElJefe]

I also miss a teams with an aura. I know, teams come and go. But I take Jordan, Ligier, Tyrrell, the original Minardi, etc. back any day. Hell, even Super Aguri had the potential to become a new Minardi, maybe Stewart could have become a team such as Sauber.

Red Bull just does not light my fire in any way, nor does Toro Rosso. And our new backmarkers just seem too "corporate" to be as attractive for fans as Minardi was. If we lose Williams and Sauber (we probably have lost the 'real' Sauber anyway, I do not know if changing the name in a year or two will even matter anymore), I think we'll have a rather dull grid.

I know, all high levels of motorsport have become "corporate", but I think IndyCar and probably even WEC have more racing spirit left within them, so that's why I look forward to their races more than I do in the case of F1.

This. Bring back teams with heart and soul, run by true motorsport enthusiasts, working with limited budgets and trying to be as creative as possible. Diversity on the grid, both with respect to the liveries as car design itself. Back in the day V8, V10 and V12 engines would be side by side on the grid, each car looking discernibly different. Bring back the diversity in track design (which track, apart from Monza, is truly high speed and low downforce?)

[F1Champion]

This. Bring back teams with heart and soul, run by true motorsport enthusiasts, working with limited budgets and trying to be as creative as possible. Diversity on the grid, both with respect to the liveries as car design itself. Back in the day V8, V10 and V12 engines would be side by side on the grid, each car looking discernibly different. Bring back the diversity in track design (which track, apart from Monza, is truly high speed and low downforce?)

I have to admit, that the small teams get no coverage in the media or races. You totally forget about them really. I used to remember the names of drivers for Minardi....I'd struggle with the newer teams at the bottom. Heck I don't even know the names of their main management.

The new tracks are absolutely horrible on TV - China, looks empty and grey, Korea is similar just white concrete surrounding the track, Valencia is Korea but a little more sunny, India is pretty much race track and miles of runoff and Bahrain is sand dunes. Singapore and Dubai are the only decent ones and that's only because of the effect of night/dust racing. I really think that there is something in the actual image you see beamed into your living room. Imola, Spa, Monza, Magny Cours - all special with more soul.

[anbeck]

Singapore and Dubai are the only decent ones

You mean Abu Dhabi?
That just proves your point that it really doesn't matter in which desert country they run on whatever generic circuit...

[Garagiste]

..., maybe Stewart could have become a team such as Sauber...

Um, they became Red Bull?

[MortenF1]

It was absolute **** earlier in the season, with all the ridiculousness around the tires;
-"do you want me to race him, risk my tires, or just let him past?"
-"...yes, but Sutil made a mistake of racing too hard that's why his tires went off"
"...ok, Lewis we need laptimes in the high 28's, don't go faster than that please."

I will gladly watch Red Bull or whoever romp away as long as I get to watch pure, all-out racing. With the new tires, it looks like things will get (more) back to how it should be, 'cause I actually found myself losing interest earlier, starting to do other things in the middle of the race. That's saying something 'cause from '96 I've only lost three races live, and I didn't even leave my chair to pee before!

[Lelouch]

Hey guys. What about all of us actually getting old and mature and not really getting so excited about all this stuff that doesn't matter in real life?

I think this is the main reason many people find F1 more boring now. So that even Schumacher domination years of 2002 and 2004 are now painted in a more positive light. Actually it was a horrible time back then in F1, people were complaining all the time. But now it seems that you guys were younger and more excited about all that stuff and remember those days like "grass was greener back then".

Whenever I think I am bored of F1 I always think I am just getting old and life has moved on.

That's what i feel too about all the sports I like(d). But I think in most sports the overall quality of the product has declined although there are bright exceptions. For instance,Messi and Ronaldo are great but football has been a bit meeeh in recent times. F1 has its star but overall it's pretty dull this year. Most of the great drivers never meet on track, gosh.. And even if they do, they will be on different strategies, different tires or different part of their life cycle and there comes DRS to kill all that's left.

Still, there is a worse example of decline imo - NBA - so we haven't hit rock bottom yet.

However, i think sooner or later I will have to start rewatching previous seasons to get excited.

[anbeck]

Um, they became Red Bull?

Um, and Tyrrell became..., and Toleman became...?

I think you know what I mean.

[Forma1]

I haven't seen cars on track live before the last weekend. Now I would call it boring as well. You can even compare the ultra-stable RB with Ferrari. They have cars in two different leagues.

[TheMidnight]

Yes, I’ve also found my interest waning quite severely this season, there’s too many elements frustrating me with it at the moment so I’ll do my best to sum it up, it’s an opinion, so please don’t pick at me like I’m presenting 100% fact.

It Wants To Be A Spec Series – Chasing The Channel Hoppers

I don’t get the mind set behind F1 sometimes, and especially the ‘spice the action up’ crowd it’s chasing. We spend a great of time setting the cars up for the race, and then sorting who’s the fastest in qualifying. Is it any surprise those fast cars disappear off into the distance??? Clearly it was so Pirelli were told to make cheesecake tires and ‘reset’ the competitive advantages. So on one hand we have a series keen on ‘innovation’ and supposedly the ‘pinnacle’ of motorsport, yet any competitive advantage that’s deemed too great is neutralised by either banning it, or by the introduction of trinkets (DRS, Cheese Tires, limited engines etc). I don’t see how you can sustainably have what is arguably ‘spec series’ conditions being forced upon teams of massively differing budgets and technological expertise. It’s not Red Bull’s problem Force India aren’t as quick as them, hardly a revelation given the gulf in spending and technical innovation (btw that’s not meant as an insult to FI). So I’m continually getting racked off at the completely contradictory ethos of wanting to attract the best teams/drivers vs. forcing them to run in spec series conditions. I want to see the fastest car/driver combo win, not the one that lucked into the best tire management that weekend….leading nicely onto tires…

If I Hear That Word Again – But….It’s The Same For Everyone

I’m sick to death of the ‘T’ word, millions are spent by teams to make their car the best, and then all that completely depends on the tiny few square inches of a wheel’s contact patch. Managing tires has always been a factor, but it shouldn’t be such a deciding factor it currently is. I’m bored to tears hearing the constant tire talk over gp weekends, I zone out immediately and instantly my interest goes elsewhere. I’m sick to death of the argument ‘But…it’s the same for everyone’, tires should not be the deciding factor they are.

Sorry…When Is The Next Race?

The schedule feels really disjointed this year, if F1 disappears for a month is it any wonder minds wander? It used to be roughly every two weeks a few years ago. Now we can have large gaps punctuated by back to back weekends, I’ve lost a natural rhythm I used to have with it, I just ‘knew’ a race would be on, now I have to make a point of checking. No race for a month? I didn’t realise we’d started the off season early.

I’ve ‘Emotionally’ Moved Onto Other Sports

I’m supposedly an F1 diehard but I find Le Mans racing (ALMS, WEC) etc far more gripping at the moment, I’m not saying WEC is perfect, but I like the fact they’re pushing for the entirety of a race, not driving to lap deltas. Watching a procession of GT cars fighting it out in the dark round Road Atlanta whilst prototypes are whizzing past running their own race is far more awe inspiring to me. I’m finding F1 is impressing me less and less with its love affair with many sterile circuits. Visually the camera shots are too focused on wide shots trying to cram in as much advertising as possible, it takes away the sensation of speed. Watching an onboard of an Lmp1 round Le Mans at night is beyond comparability imo, frighteningly awe inspiring. The final straw was going up to Silverstone last year for the WEC and spending £30 to sit for the whole weekend in the same spot the F1 race cost me £300 previously, was the F1 race 10x as exciting….not a chance. I wrote in the Silverstone 2013 ticket thread my dismay at the treatment of ‘poor fans’. I’m not being taken for a mug anymore.

Arrogance

I’m tired of F1 journos, teams, basically anyone connected with F1 blowing smoke up their *** that they’re the pinnacle of everything, it’s an entirely subjective opinion based on a set criteria. Are all those pay drivers at the back the very best out there? Like hell they are. There’s various F1 blogs I’ll read from ‘those that actually go to races’ and some of the retorts back to commenters valid questions boils my blood. Hearing them moan on podcasts about how XYZ Airlines have stopped a complimentary freebee or something comparable trivial, bearing in mind their audience is people who would love the access they have. To sit there moaning about how it’s all such a struggle kinda takes the P in my opinion. The stuck up attitude and digs at other series gets my goat, especially when their own sport is hardly all flowers waving in the sunshine at the moment. Then at the top you’ve got the men in suits bleeding the sport of as much money as they can get. Eugh…had enough of it.

Random Thoughts

Redundancy of defensive driving – All a chasing driver has to do now is wait until the next DRS zone if he lacks talent. Couple that with the fact that the slightest contact is met with a penalty, much easier to wait for a boring DRS pass on the next straight.
Inconsistency of stewards – Penalties are rewarded based on outcome and previous history, that’s not consistency at all.
Endless BBC vs. Sky arguments – I’m bored of it, you’re never far away from some dig. Some F1 fans are some of the most entitled people I know, wanting everything for nothing.
Olympics – Reaffirmed my love of swimming and athletics, I spend a lot more time watching those sports now.
Monaco – A race put on for the rich and beautiful, yes I love watching all those yuppies enjoying a free day out, as for the racing, watching follow the leader for two hours is coma inducing due to the cars/rules outgrowing the track.
F1 Fanbois – I hate the level of intelligence in some discussions, it’s akin to playground stuff, grown men arguing for weeks at a time over any things they can’t categorically prove one way or another.
Hamilton Hatred – I’ve never seen a single driver hated upon like Hamilton, endless discussion about every facet of his life to try and find something ‘to prove’ he isn’t a good driver or worthy of being in F1. Classic examples are the ‘vs’ threads, Rosberg sure has picked up a lot of supporters this year who were absent last year during discussions about him. Vettel and Alonso are also loathed, maybe not to the same level but some of the drivel posted turns my brain to mush. Most of the writers posting have never even been in a go kart, let alone driven competitively.
Backwards Technology – I can watch the relatively anonymous Blancpain Series and have the ability to pick online between a multitude of onboards, same for many other sportscar series….yet the self-proclaimed ‘pinnacle’ does it begrudgingly, they don’t make it easy at all. Constantly failing live timing using old Javascript…yes a real pinnacle that.
I Have Less time – I’m older (I’m now 30) and as a consequence I have far less time I’m willing to donate to F1, I work full time, doing a degree in astrophysics, and also getting married this year, F1 is very far down my list of priorities these days.

On reflection that’s a really depressing read back, I don’t hate F1, but I’m aching for it to tempt me back properly, I’ve become a casual fan it seems

[bourbon]

Love f1.

[Der Pate]

For me it seems that F1 (especially Bernie) constantly fear other series like Indycar or Nascar, where "show" and "action" is everything. Therefore we have such things like DRS (to have more overtaking no matter if the second driver has the speed or skills) or KERS or tyres, which mix the field up during a race.

The schedule this year is a mistake. OK, a free August is understandable, if the teams would work like in the days, where testing during the year was allowed. Now I often wonder, what the teams (and especially the drivers) do from race-weekend to race-weekend. But this year we have one race in 7 weeks I guess. The reason for this could be, that Bernie opened up a weekend for Mateschitz to have a Grand Prix at the Red-Bull-Ring, which didn´t work out for 2013. But that´s only a thought...

The WEC is very entertaining, and the coverage of the 24 hours at Le Mans was great! The coverage of the F1-races are better than ever, but for me the cars looked faster during the 80s. When I was at racetracks during a F1-weekend with friends, who never been to a Grand Prix, they are astonished, how loud and fast the cars really are. Why can´t we see that on TV?

Whenever I want to show someone, why I´m so in love with F1 and motorsports, I always show them a video about Dijon 1979. The battle between Arnoux and Villeneuve. Such a battle woudn´t be possible now, because for every little thing, you get punished. It´s ridiculous!

[F1Champion]

DRS has sucked the life out of race battles. In Hungary it was great to see Hamilton and Webber and Massa and Grosjean try to pass on non-DRS areas. The rest of the time, it becomes inevitable that a driver gets DRS and blasts down the straight and the defending driver can't move to defend or do anything about it. The Hungary race was good when Button was keeping Vettel behind him, because it was the first time I can remember that Vettel was behind someone for that long and had to think of other ways to pass other than DRS or having a large tyre/car advantage.

[512BB]

F1 has been boring for quite some time in my opinion. It's fake racing at this point.

[Disgrace]

DRS has sucked the life out of race battles. In Hungary it was great to see Hamilton and Webber and Massa and Grosjean try to pass on non-DRS areas. The rest of the time, it becomes inevitable that a driver gets DRS and blasts down the straight and the defending driver can't move to defend or do anything about it. The Hungary race was good when Button was keeping Vettel behind him, because it was the first time I can remember that Vettel was behind someone for that long and had to think of other ways to pass other than DRS or having a large tyre/car advantage.

Hungary was among my least favourite circuits perhaps five years ago, but it's quickly become one of my favourite circuits simply because it's not a modern circuit (i.e the cars look quick on the circuit) with huge straights primed for DRS "overtakes".