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How to score a scorecard?


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#1 Buttoneer

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 17:18

The purpose of this thread is for us to share, evaluate and comment on the various methods people use to keep score in their scorecard threads.

The FIA already provides us with a handy guide to overall results in the form of a World Driver Championship table and although that might be fine for ordinary people it's simply not good enough for knowledgeable experts like us. So we have an abundance of scorecard threads which all seek to put a unique spin on the relative performances of the pilots employed by any given team. These try to take into account, variously, performance in testing, practice sessions, qualifying results, fastest laps, overtaking stats, catwalk profile, girlfriends, column inches, tweets, luck and even finishing position. Others will simply use a binary 1-0 system to cover the whole weekend, season or career because anything else, it doesn't matter.

The idea of the thread is not to mock or re-score the various scorecards but to evaluate and learn from the systems employed around the forum and from those who may not otherwise publish their views other than within the confines of a thread which a lot of other members will not visit because they have little interest in the team. Perhaps we can come up with a method which is fair and reasonable or which reflects some of the more subjective and nuanced opinions which people hold as well as the binary thinkers?

Specific rules for the thread in addition to the house rules are;
  • Please don't just post your current score. Explain the system, say why you use it and why it is better than the FIA's or any of the others.
  • This is not about discussing the FIA points system.
  • It would be nice if we can have sensible ideas but feel free to contribute outlandish or heavily biassed systems if the mood takes you.
  • Really stupid systems which stand up to challenge and scrutiny will win my enduring respect. Actually, any system which stands up to scrutiny will deserve serious respek all round but stupid ones are just that bit more special.
  • Driver names are essentially irrelevant and therefore should be avoided as far as possible.
  • If you offer a methodology and something happened which made you adopt that approach, please say what that was.
  • Offering praise and encouragement to others is encouraged and praiseworthy.
  • Critiquing a system should be done constructively. For example "1-0 does not reflect that driver B finished only 1s behind drive A" is better than "lol wut", "derp", or "I can haz cheesberger."
  • As per rule #5, please don't mention driver names.
  • If you think the thread is stupid, it probably is. It probably does not warrant your attention and definitely not a click on the reply button and any number of keystrokes to explain yourself. No, it's just too dumb for you so click the one-star rating and pass by. These are not the discussions you are looking for. <waves hand mysteriously>
  • No, there is no poll.
  • In view of rules #5 and #9, names of drivers should not be used.
  • Oh OK then, If it is necessary to mention a driver name, it should be in the context of an illustrative incident or race and used to justify your scorecard and not to discuss the score.
  • If Jonpollak contributes an asshat to the thread, it will be awarded to the post which mentions the most driver names and yet stays within these rules. Or it will be awarded to the post of his choice. To be honest, it's his asshat to hand out so I guess it goes where he wants it.
  • People who break these rules are raving lunatics.

It's not easy to evaluate relative performance. A driver who finishes ahead of his teammate might still have gone backwards in the race and performed poorly relative to the other who came up from starting in the pitlane. A driver who finishes just behind the other may have been told to hold his position. Some will consider that three overtakes and a crash is better than going backwards but finishing. This will mean that there will be no 'right' answer but maybe lots of reasonable ones and certainly one that's better than the awful Castrol thing.

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#2 undersquare

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 18:33

I tend to just give the weekend one way or the other, score one or zero, according to driving quality.

I also like the luck-adjusted-points approach though it's hard to keep track.

#3 Burtros

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 18:47

I personally like Autosports 1-10 scoring system.

I find 1-0 is often too tight scope wise, for a start it makes it hard to account for misfortune a driver may have suffered. If Driver B starts on pole and is punted out on the first corner, and his teammate Driver A then wins from second... well you cant say Driver B won the weekend but its harsh to say he lost. Another problem I have is say Driver A sticks it 2nd on the grid, driver B ends up 12th due to a car problem but had been close all weekend. Driver A stays where he is, Driver B comes through to the podium. Well Driver B has done a great job, but so has Driver A. Im not convinced a clear 'winner' and 'loser' can be defined in those circumstances.

Perhaps, if looking to define a threshold for a win/lose judgement, a difference of over 3 points out of 10 between drivers over a weekend could be required. You could end up with two tables at the end of the year - points out of 190 for each driver, and number of weekend 'wins'.

Edited by Burtros, 31 July 2013 - 18:58.


#4 tmzxaar

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 18:51

I tend to just give the weekend one way or the other, score one or zero, according to driving quality.

I also like the luck-adjusted-points approach though it's hard to keep track.


Yeah, you can't really mesure luck it's too subjective.

It would be cool to add qualifying results (not grid position i.e. without grid penalties) to the overall score because it's also a big part of the job.

#5 undersquare

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:02

Yeah, you can't really mesure luck it's too subjective.

The thing is you can't just 'not score' luck. If you don't adjust for it, it's the same as saying there wasn't any and so, for example, an engine failure never happened.

#6 Lights

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:08

I use a 1 to 5 star rating system. Based on qualifying performance; how much more pace one driver has over the other during the race; who maximizes their chances; miscounting bad luck, external factors etc. Finalized by gut feeling.

It has some flaws as in, when do you score a 5 etc. But simply to compare two teammates, it's pretty good.

#7 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:09

Within the teams
--
I score with lowest being best. Meaning that:

Driver 1 finishes 2nd, and driver 1B finishes 5th - Result for weekend: Driver 1 2 points, Driver1B 6 points, the driver finishing lowest will get an added point for finishing lower than his / her team mate.

All scores count, there is no such thing as a retirement if driver 1 is out in first corner and on the official results marked as 22nd, then he scores 23 points.

How the FIA should change
--
1st = 1 point
2nd = 2 points
3rd = 4 points
4th = 8 points
5th = 16 points
6th = 32 points

Not points lower than 6th which ever way the FIA/FOM and CIA wants to split the revenue further down then can agree on without involving us the fans. Driver with the least points win the WDC, team with the least points wins the WCC.

:cool:

#8 jonpollak

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:10

Yeah, you can't really mesure luck it's too subjective.


Me sure you CAN measure 'luck'.

Example 1: 2nd place DriverA passes leader on penultimate lap.
Big Crash ensues on final lap.
Yellow flag displayed at only overtaking point.
DriverA wins race.

Consequently...
Dry cleaner in Des Moines collects 500 to 1 bet from Wagon Wheel Casino in Reno.

Conclusion;
Better to be lucky than good.

Jp

#9 SophieB

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:38

A highly clinical, objective and above all scientifically rigorous guide that I have compiled to analyse driver performance:

Posted Image

You're welcome!

#10 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:40

A highly clinical, objective and above all scientifically rigorous guide that I have compiled to analyse driver performance:

You're welcome!


That is awesome.

:clap:

:cool:

P.S. Your write like a girl

#11 ApexMouse

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:49

On the subject of jp, do I STILL have to walk around with this freshman asshat on?

It's damp. And it smells.

#12 ensign14

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 20:01

How the FIA should change
--
1st = 1 point
2nd = 2 points
3rd = 4 points
4th = 8 points
5th = 16 points
6th = 32 points

Not points lower than 6th which ever way the FIA/FOM and CIA wants to split the revenue further down then can agree on without involving us the fans. Driver with the least points win the WDC, team with the least points wins the WCC.

:cool:

/me puts £10 on a Tom Chilton/Marussia double

#13 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 20:06

/me puts £10 on a Tom Chilton/Marussia double


You may have misunderstood the intricacies of my perfect system then.

:cool:

#14 MarileneRiddle

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 21:55

I did this system for research purposes (yeah I was bored) and now use it to score race weekends (nope I have nothing better to do).

It is based on... LUCK.

So starting from Free Practice:

The drivers are ranked according to how fast the car is. The fastest lap by the car during all 3 free practice sessions (both drivers) counts.

The drivers with the fastest cars get 100 points. For every second slower, we subtract 10 points. So if driver A is faster than team mate B, B still gets the same amount of luck by being in the same car.

Any unfortunate incidents costing prep time in free practice will subtract points (out of 100). This is proportionate to the time lost. So if driver C has a mechanical failure that costs the whole of practice 3 to repair, that is 60/240 minutes = 12.5 points. Unfortunate means either car failure or race incident 100% not due to the driver's fault. If it is a 50-50 incident, the driver is still considered to have contributed to the incident, and so is not unfortunate.

Going into qualifying, the drivers are ranked according to their points total so far. If any driver suffers an unfortunate incident during qualifying, he has points subtracted proportionate to the drop in ranking he received. So if driver D is blocked on his final run and misses out on Q3 (11th) when he was expected to be 5th, then (100/22*6)=27 points should be subtracted. All the drivers from 5th to 11th also should receive a proportionate points gain (+4.5). Unfortunate incidents include gearbox penalties, but not penalties applied due to infringements.

The drivers are ranked based on their totals after qualifying for their expected results.

During the race, if a driver suffers an unfortunate incident:
- and DNFs. Immediately his points are wiped out.
- and has to pit for repairs. Every additional pit stop be points subtracted proportionate to the number of laps in a race (up to 100 points).
- and has a loss in lap times. Every second slower will be 1 point subtracted, multiplied by the number of laps remaining. If driver E loses 3 tenths per lap for the remaining 24 laps, that is roughly 1 second every 3 laps and so (24/3)= 8 points will be subtracted.
- and has no visible effect. 1 point is subtracted for losing time through the incident (i.e. getting hit or adjusting for no KERS).

If a driver ahead suffered an unfortunate incident:
- and DNFs. Every driver behind receives a proportionate points gain (+4.5).
- and has to pit for repairs. Drivers that benefit receive a proportionate points gain (+4.5). So if driver F has to pit from 6th and comes out 9th, drivers 6th-8th (after F has come out) will receive a points gain.
- and has a loss in lap times. Drivers that manage to undercut the unfortunate driver receive a proportionate points gain (+4.5). Drivers that manage to overtake the unfortunate driver receive a slightly lessened points gain (+3).
- and has no visible effect. No change for everyone else.

Finally, the drivers are ranked one last time after the race.

The closest to 100 are the luckiest drivers - having the best car, incident free race, maybe even benefitting from others' misfortune. Those with close to 0 are unlucky - a DNFs through no fault of his own, or mechanical gremlins costing time.

At the end of the season, we'll have a swap so that the luckiest driver has to get the worst car and so on, so that we can even things out for next season. :lol:

#15 Slartibartfast

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 22:18

A highly clinical, objective and above all scientifically rigorous guide that I have compiled to analyse driver performance:

Posted Image

You're welcome!

How did you get hold of my system?

I think I shall now have to turn to the inferior but popular Autosport Forum system of assessing how my preferred driver can post facto be declared the winner by inventing the criteria on an ad hoc basis.

#16 PassWind

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 22:46

Who the feck let this out of the Paddock Club, as with all systems sound research is critical to biased critique of any system.

Rule # 212 when it gets there I suggest should be.

212. Always quote out of context as it will ensure it supports your argument and doesn't leave it open to scrutiny. After all a scorecard is a reasonably simple exercise in making subjective appear objective.

Rule # 836 when it gets there ought to be.

836. Any credible score card must have an author who holds valid qualifications, preferably two or more which are verifiable. Deference will go to systems which are designed by those who hold a current Masters in wiki and google.


I am currently working on a algorithm which I call "Mining the Diamond" it will in essence allocate fanboy modifiers to the drivers points championship to find the real champion, the hidden Diamond in the riff raff. I am in Alpha at this stage and there are a few bugs to iron out, my last run for instance took 20 races and oddly I ended up with 22 WDC's for the year, more work is needed before going to Beta release.

Oh @ OP TLDR but all your points are valid ;););)

Edited by PassWind, 31 July 2013 - 22:53.


#17 noikeee

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 00:08

Luck-adjusted points in theory is fair enough to me. I mean the more races you go through the less luck will count as a factor, but it can genuinely swing actual championship points big, big time. Which is why we have scorecards in the first place. The problem is what counts as "luck" - and then it's all hell gone loose as both factions in the noble art of scorecard war will consider the smallest thing as bad luck for their driver, and absolutely everything unlucky on the other driver as his own fault.

Ultimately you just need to have an unbiased guy with a straight head on and paying a lot of attention to races, but sound people don't tend to hang around scorecard threads. So you might as well just forget about it and go with your perception or with points, and to hell with luck.

Sorry for a dead serious tone post ruining the previous sequence, carry on with the fun. :up:

#18 mymemoryfails

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:31

there is always Bernie's approach to bad luck....which would be to penalize further a driver who suffers bad luck, as he say " who wants an unlucky driver?"

mymemoryfails

#19 Brother Fox

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:40

I think if you cant justify why your favourite driver is better then you just havent done enough research ... plus it's good if you can throw in a Senna quote

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#20 Beamer

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:03

Isn't the general scoring system the one where you add points to the current season based on legendary moments a driver has had in the past multiplied by the years that have gone by since?

e.g.:
Driver A had an extroardinary win 3 years ago, so that's 3*25 points added to this years score
Driver B did an incredible overtake 5 years ago, and we all know that's worth 10 points, so he gets 5*10 points added to this years score
Driver C had a stunning rookie year, which is rated at 50 points, 6 years ago, so that's 6*50 points extra
Driver D had a great career until appx 20 years ago, rated for 100 points, so that's 20*100 added to this season, even if not competing anymore.

The good thing is, we all know what the legendary moments are, so they won't be disputed.



#21 Mauseri

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:17

I don't know if this is a thread to disccuss the aurosport type driver rankings, but where those always go wrong I think is the attempt to separate speed that comes from car and driver. It's an easy source of bias, intentional or not, since noone will ever know exactly how the cars rank and there may be some symbiotic that wouldn't apply if the driver was in other car/team.

I'd say rank the driver performance with his car, but eliminate things that are outside of the drivers control. That is race happenings that are out of his control or car failures. For the lack of speed driver can do something, so leave it to the reader to decide how the cars rank and don't ruin the quality of the driver ranks with bias deriving from personal preferences or unavoidable ignorance.

Edited by Mauseri, 01 August 2013 - 07:18.


#22 Force Ten

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:54

[*]Really stupid systems which stand up to challenge and scrutiny will win my enduring respect. Actually, any system which stands up to scrutiny will deserve serious respek all round but stupid ones are just that bit more special.

Well the "if my driver finished ahead it's a +1 for him and if he finished behind it's draw because [insert whatever comes to your mind at a particular moment]" has worked exceptionally well in the past few years, hasn't it?

#23 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:04

I don't know if this is a thread to disccuss the aurosport type driver rankings,

The clue is in the title.

The driver and car performance is separated to the greatest possible extent because the scorecards only compare drivers in the same team. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have.

#24 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:06

A highly clinical, objective and above all scientifically rigorous guide that I have compiled to analyse driver performance:

[image deleted for the sake of our sanity]

You're welcome!


Beautiful in its simplicity and accuracy.

#25 Force Ten

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:12

scorecard is a reasonably simple exercise

Agreed! What is the point of the thread?!??!!?!!




























Rule 212 applied.

#26 Murraytastic

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:32

Isn't the general scoring system the one where you add points to the current season based on legendary moments a driver has had in the past multiplied by the years that have gone by since?

e.g.:
Driver A had an extroardinary win 3 years ago, so that's 3*25 points added to this years score
Driver B did an incredible overtake 5 years ago, and we all know that's worth 10 points, so he gets 5*10 points added to this years score
Driver C had a stunning rookie year, which is rated at 50 points, 6 years ago, so that's 6*50 points extra
Driver D had a great career until appx 20 years ago, rated for 100 points, so that's 20*100 added to this season, even if not competing anymore.

The good thing is, we all know what the legendary moments are, so they won't be disputed.


I thought points could also be subtracted in a similar way:

Driver A was lapped by his teammate 4 years ago, so that's 4*200 points subtracted from this year's score
Driver B was once outqualified by a pay driver in a different series 7 years ago, so that's 7*100 points less
Driver C crashed into my favourite driver and caused him to DNF 10 years ago, which is clearly 10^1000000000 points less
etc