76 replies to this topic

[AustinF1]

Turn 3 Austin
Degner Suzuka
Pouhon Spa
Turn 12 Shanghai
Turn 17 Abu Dhabi
Turn 14 Malaysia

Turn 3 Austin?

Why? It's an important turn to set up the rest of the esses, but not particularly difficult to get right, imho. You're already in the middle of the track exiting 2. Brush the brake and get the car over to the curb and you're pretty much set. 3 is the easiest turn of the esses. Things get progressively much more difficult after 3 as each turn gets tighter and there's much more throttle modulation. You have to constantly fight the urge to push harder than you should.

Edited by AustinF1, 08 August 2013 - 10:48.

[ardbeg]

I'd name Spoon for Suzuka, fast entry and double apex. Lots of guys seem to miss their apex there.

And Degner too. Kind of the same, but much sharper.

To single out one only, I'd go for spoon as well. Very tricky to get perfect and very important for the lap time. Corkscrew is even trickier, but it's not a F1 circuit. Phoenix seemed to have some interesting corners but I don't have any experience from there. There is a lot of low speed chicanes and hairpins that are hard to get right, but although important, they are rarely interesting, just annoying.

EDIT: Of course, the Esses at Suzuka is interesting as well, a lot of tip toeing and careful weight shifting going on, but they can not be counted as one since there is direction changes.

Edited by ardbeg, 08 August 2013 - 10:29.

[redreni]

Hockenheim turn 1 must be extremely difficult considering how few drivers seem to be able to keep it inside the white line on the exit....

[sesku]

Hockenheim turn 1 must be extremely difficult considering how few drivers seem to be able to keep it inside the white line on the exit....

Hate that corner. The best racing line there is to go wide on exit.

[Skinnyguy]

Hate that corner. The best racing line there is to go wide on exit.

If you drive a DTM or any Touring car, yes, but F1 drivers still try to keep their outside wheels on the curb. Their exit is a bit slow when they go to the turf, but of course the penalty is quite light for going off there.

[muramasa]

Spoon is surely entertaining section to watch, so surely must be difficult. I like sitting and watching there coz you can appreciate braking, engine braking, shifting and throttle control - all very subtle, and different, driver by driver, car by car, lap by lap, condition by condition.

amateur video at Spoon, Suzuka FP2 2012 (Raikkonen goes off track @3:15)


Kovalainen spin at Spoon, Suzuka FP2 2012


Raikkonen spin at Spoon, Suzuka Q2 2012


I think one of factors that makes Spoon interesting is that there's no kerb on the outside of approach, hence drivers are required to make a turn-in into the inside apex at precise angle and speed using engine braking and paddle/throttle/brake controls.

Drivers often resort to slightest drifting there in order to change direction, the last video of Kimi spinning shows the use of drifting well, and what will happen when u overdo it in ultimate form.

[SpartanChas]

For me its tabac and the fast chicane at piscina and the braking for the slow chicane that gives me the biggest satisfaction when I get it right. Always hate feeling the back step out 9 times put of ten there.

[Nigol]

Sainte Devote (Turn 1 Monaco). You have to risk quite a bit in order to be fast.

[Nemo1965]

Sainte Devote (Turn 1 Monaco). You have to risk quite a bit in order to be fast.

I don't agree. As Coulthard said: 'The trick with St. Devote is NOT to use late-braking for the corner. All the time you seemingly lose by braking early, you win back by a good accleration up the hill.'

He's right, I think. Since I stopped braking late in sims at St. Devote the corner has become much, much easier for me. The fast chicane at Monaco though... AAAARGH!

Another section of a track I just can't get right, in any game, are all the corners at Spa after Eau Rouge, and before Stavelot. I just can't seem to get it.

[Alfisti]

From F1 games, the last sequence at monaco is just a ****ing nightmare. There's SO MUCH time there from the chicane at the swimming pool through the final corner it's insane. Webber and Michaels qualy laps in 2012 was great through there, were just on it.

[F1ultimate]

I don't agree. As Coulthard said: 'The trick with St. Devote is NOT to use late-braking for the corner. All the time you seemingly lose by braking early, you win back by a good accleration up the hill.'

He's right, I think. Since I stopped braking late in sims at St. Devote the corner has become much, much easier for me. The fast chicane at Monaco though... AAAARGH!

Another section of a track I just can't get right, in any game, are all the corners at Spa after Eau Rouge, and before Stavelot. I just can't seem to get it.

Late braking doesn't always work in corners which require high speed directional change. In fast corners hitting the brakes late and hard to then slam the accelerator will just lead to understeer on corner entry and potential over or understeer on exist. Some corners are faster taken if you slam the brakes hard but early and gradually ease off the brake while proportionate applying gas. This is will result in very neutral car which you can comfortably aim at the apex and exit the corner with confidence.

Give it a try, especially with ABS off. I did it last week and improved by lap times on circuits by 4-5 seconds. More importantly my driving is calmer and I feel less like I'm wrestling the car. It's not about how fast you can take a tough corner but the number of consecutive times you can take it without taking a deep breath every time.

[superdelphinus]

I get why people do it, but it's a bit dangerous judging how difficult corners are based on computer games - that's 90% down to what the physics (and other environmental details) of the game are like. For example - the esses at Suzuka in project cars are like a rollercoaster, iracing it's so difficult to tame the understeer and resulting snap oversteer. Same track, (roughly the) same car, completely different experience.

I always think the most difficult corners in real life must be a combination of the fear factor plus the sheer violence involved.

[HPT]

Maybe it's just me but I find it impossible to know how tough a corner is by playing video games, no matter how realistic it might be. I've raced F1 cars around Sepang on my Playstation hundreds of times and I'd miss an apex here and there but it has nothing to do with how difficult a particular corner is. And I've driven real cars around Sepang, from Lotus Elise to Subaru WRX to a Formula BMW open-wheeler, and needless to say it is nothing like video games. For me, it's just impossible to know how difficult a virtual corner is in real life.

[AustinF1]

Maybe it's just me but I find it impossible to know how tough a corner is by playing video games, no matter how realistic it might be. I've raced F1 cars around Sepang on my Playstation hundreds of times and I'd miss an apex here and there but it has nothing to do with how difficult a particular corner is. And I've driven real cars around Sepang, from Lotus Elise to Subaru WRX to a Formula BMW open-wheeler, and needless to say it is nothing like video games. For me, it's just impossible to know how difficult a virtual corner is in real life.

Having driven on COTA in real life and in video games, I agree completely. There's very little feedback in video games even if you use a wheel setup. I usually play with a controller, which makes it even harder. You'll make mistakes in games that you wouldn't in real life and you'll make mistakes in real life that you wouldn;t in the game.

[Eff One 2002]

If you actually want an answer from someone that will be accurate, that would be more of a question to ask one of the drivers....

[sesku]

Maybe it's just me but I find it impossible to know how tough a corner is by playing video games, no matter how realistic it might be. I've raced F1 cars around Sepang on my Playstation hundreds of times and I'd miss an apex here and there but it has nothing to do with how difficult a particular corner is. And I've driven real cars around Sepang, from Lotus Elise to Subaru WRX to a Formula BMW open-wheeler, and needless to say it is nothing like video games. For me, it's just impossible to know how difficult a virtual corner is in real life.

Nice, How you get your hands on a Formula BMW? Do Sepang provide a track experience program? I've always dreamed of driving an open wheeler.

Another difficult corner for me is Variante Alta at Imola. Its position after the top of the hill really make it difficult to see the entry point. I always messed up my braking point and overshoot the chicane in sim. High kerb doesn't help either.

Edited by sesku, 10 August 2013 - 07:01.

[HPT]

Nice, How you get your hands on a Formula BMW? Do Sepang provide a track experience program? I've always dreamed of driving an open wheeler.

Another difficult corner for me is Variante Alta at Imola. Its position after the top of the hill really make it difficult to see the entry point. I always messed up my braking point and overshoot the chicane in sim. High kerb doesn't help either.

BMW offers the Formula BMW Driving Experience to their customers. It might be available to the public too but I can't be sure. In my country it's only available at a fee to BMW owners. It's a fantastic experience where you will be taught to drive the car in stages, from learning the very basics like braking, accelerating and gearing to first driving in a straight lines, then around cones and finally around the track itself although they used the shorter section of the track.

You can check out more info here: http://www.bmw-motor...experience.html

Edited by HPT, 10 August 2013 - 08:04.

[Sin]

well in the game... and I can only talk about the game (both in F1 2012 and MotoGP 13) those Silverstone corners at the end.... I hate them... HATE... and Eau Rouge in Spa

Austin is okay.. hard but okay in both games...

how much that says about real, can't say

[Kobasmashi]

I've just remembered turn 4672 (the last corner) at Valencia. The curve before the braking point makes that a right monkey, even though the rest of the lap is forgettable.

[Jimisgod]

Suzuka has a wicked difficult first sector, many hard corners.

[noikeee]

Well I certainly can't speak with any authority as I've never attempted a lap in real life, but I would think there's a BIG difference between trying a circuit in a realistic racing sim or trying it in something arcade-ish like F1 2012 on the Playstation.

[droiddamudi]

i think Suzuka is special challenge, from turn One to the last chicane, each presenting different challenge and you need to get all the corner perfect to get the lap time. But if i've to choose, It say Degner 2 in suzuka.

First Degner, its fast entry and exit, and you may think its possible to carry speed to Degner 2 only to run wide over the chicane into the barrier which is real close. I still remember webber and hamilton run out of degner 2 during practice(i think in 2010). You need confidence in Degner to carry speed and take the kerbs and definitely stable car.

The first turn, the Ss(esses), the dunlop curve, the degner, then the hairpin, the spoon, 130r and finally the final chicane. so many challenges in single lap. I'm not sure which is more challenging, spa or suzuka, both equally challenging and flowing circuit but the Degner curve is definitely the most difficult of both circuit.

Other mention,
The ascari chicane in monza,
The imola circuit, particularly Piratella, acqua Minerali, variante alta. So difficult to setup the car to take the kerbs and make sure car is stable enough in high speed. very fun to drive in GP4 with pre 2006 configuration.


With generous runoff areas and high downforce car of modern F1, its look relatively easy. I guess its why i love 2000-2004 era F1, mostly because it was such a challenge. Even though races were pretty predictable, i still love to watch some races from that time. Oh i miss the V10 so much.

[muramasa]

I get why people do it, but it's a bit dangerous judging how difficult corners are based on computer games - that's 90% down to what the physics (and other environmental details) of the game are like. For example - the esses at Suzuka in project cars are like a rollercoaster, iracing it's so difficult to tame the understeer and resulting snap oversteer. Same track, (roughly the) same car, completely different experience.

I dont play games but in reality it's like that, both are true.

In terms of actual track config, it's true that the whole S section (actually Suzuka circuit itself) is like rollercoaster, I mean alot of elevation change and undulation. I bet most people will be surprised to visit and see in person, TV doesnt do justice at all.

Maybe iracing should be closer to actual driving experience, coz from actual trackside observation, it's exactly like that, understeer and snap oversteer. Due to the undulation, the gravity does pranks here and there and cars are micro-stepping out everywhere. You can enjoy F1's awesome mobility and drivers' skill to the full there. Especially T6, apex of that corner is sort of plateau area having been climbing up all the way from T1 and before further ascending into Dunlop, so you sort of "suddenly lose gravity/downforce" in the middle of turning, to the extent that it gives drivers illusion that the track is banked towards outside. So alot of drivers lose rear-end there.

[superdelphinus]

If iracing is accurate I'd say degner 2 is an absolute cow of a corner in any car I've tried there - always so hard to not lock the brakes and get it turned in on time. Great feeling when it just glides through over the curb though

[TooTroublesome]

Turn 15 of the Austin GP is a right pig. You throw all instinct out the window by going wide to the outter curb and heading in almost the wrong direction to get a perfect exit. Really hard to get right (in video games).

[AustinF1]

Turn 15 of the Austin GP is a right pig. You throw all instinct out the window by going wide to the outter curb and heading in almost the wrong direction to get a perfect exit. Really hard to get right (in video games).

Yep. I think it may be the toughest single turn on the track. There's also the dip right at the apex that's present in video games, but not nearly as prominent as real life. It upsets the car and makes throttle application extra sensitive. A hair too early or too much and you lose the back end instantly. You really have to be patient there and let the car turn.

[paipa]

I'd say Suzuka is easily one of the fiercest tracks around. But nailing turn 7 to carry enough speed through dunlop without going off wide or losing too much speed is quite hard, especially since you come into turn 7 after a sequence of S corners.

- 50 sec.

It's funny how this same video has Raikkönen spinning out in Spoon.