Member
Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:32
I certainly see why people would think that, and perhaps there will be unintended consequences as a result of the change, but it's visible because of a boring technical issue with the new software rather than a policy change.
That's an easy fix via CSS, assuming you have someone who knows what they're doing.
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Member
Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:34
After re-reading the forum rules and checking the notification and setting options, I am glad I found this thread instead to bothering a mod asking him/her about this warning points thing.
I really like the changes in the forum but this is the one thing that really annoys me, since this could be shown in the profile or as a pm instead of next to the avatar.
The fact that only I can see my warning point but not everybody else's, makes me feel like I am the most wanted criminal or something like that. I suppose it is a matter of time to get use to that...
Also,as personal opinion and a little bit offtopic, it is a shame to see so many members without avatar...
Member
Posted 12 March 2016 - 21:34
FYI still no mention of this in the forum rules
Member
Posted 08 May 2016 - 22:57
Hmm, nearly three years on from the OP and there is still nothing in the 'Forum Rules', or anywhere else that I can see, about what a warning point is, how you get one, how many you can have, and how many you need to win a prize.
I have just found this thread, and didn't read every word of it, but even if all is explained here (and from my scan I don't think it is), if you are going to have rules, and you do have them set out in the "Forum Rules", why do you not also set out the mechanism to enforce those rules? Its not rocket science, just a few lines of text.
While the concept of natural justice is not strictly applicable to internet forums, I think that there is value in the idea of allowing participants to understand how a particularly important part of forum operation works, so that they can understand (and perhaps have less grounds to object to) decisions taken that affect them.
As an example of the amateurish programming of the software downgrade oops I mean upgrade, EVERYBODY gets a line that says warning points - how difficult would it have been (is it now) to make that conditional on there actually being a warning issued? That would have removed how many of these posts? And if there was an explanation in the rules? Or even on the page that comes up when you click on 'warning points', or at least a link to somewhere where an explanation can be found?
Member
Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:12
I have just found this thread, and didn't read every word of it, but even if all is explained here (and from my scan I don't think it is), if you are going to have rules, and you do have them set out in the "Forum Rules", why do you not also set out the mechanism to enforce those rules? Its not rocket science, just a few lines of text.
I think it isn't that easy. There are some behaviours which lead immediately to an bann, even without warning, as you can read them in the rules. And two different users can have the same amount of warning points, but yet it might be not the same in the grande scheme, so this would make any mechanism a bit worthless, because you have to consider in every case the circumstances.
As for warning points, G4E explained that a few years ago. Maybe this bit should be in the Forum rules, maybe it shouldn't. I don't know.
The severity of the offence, the posting frequency, how long the poster has been a member, previous transgressions, what you contribute and posting style all play a part in the action taken when a member transgresses. It is not a case of 3 strikes and you are out nor is it true that you won't get banned if you transgress and have no points. You can have a lot of points over many years and be "safe", yet you can have a couple of points in a few months and be on your final warning. You will usually be warned that it is your last warning if you are a repeat offender.
As many posters here can attest a high point count doesn't mean automatic exclusion.
Of course you could question then why they have a warning system in the first place. It is a feature of the forum software and I think it helps a lot: When I got my first (and only) warning after one month it gave me a reason to actually read the forum rules for the first time!
Edited by Marklar, 09 May 2016 - 09:17.
Member
Posted 09 May 2016 - 10:29
Your quote from G4E is just the sort of thing I had in mind. Not saying just put that up, but that it just has to explain how the system works. I think there is something similar said in a post upthread too.
Like I said, not rocket science. If it is too hard, then I would question the system itself - do those running it know it, how it is supposed to work, does anyone keep an eye on how it is working. If the system is well thought out and well managed, wring a few words would be chickenfeed for the person/people involved.
And if we must have a line saying warning points, then for heavens sake have some explanation/information available from the link. It really is just sloppy design/implementation.
For the record, I think that it is good to have this sort of mechanism - just do it properly.
Administrator
Posted 09 May 2016 - 11:58
Your quote from G4E is just the sort of thing I had in mind. Not saying just put that up, but that it just has to explain how the system works. I think there is something similar said in a post upthread too.
Like I said, not rocket science. If it is too hard, then I would question the system itself - do those running it know it, how it is supposed to work, does anyone keep an eye on how it is working. If the system is well thought out and well managed, wring a few words would be chickenfeed for the person/people involved.
And if we must have a line saying warning points, then for heavens sake have some explanation/information available from the link. It really is just sloppy design/implementation.
For the record, I think that it is good to have this sort of mechanism - just do it properly.
We do maintain broad guidelines, but it would be somewhat self-defeating to publish them - we'd just get some people seeing how far they could push the rules before getting a warning.
There's also a lot that goes on behind the scenes. Warnings aren't issued often - and even when they are, there has almost always been a discussion between two or more moderators, since it's likely to relate to a reported post - which we can all see - or one which one of us has pulled off the board. We don't just delete them - they're stored in our private archive, since some time down the line we might need to refer back to it if you do something really, really bad! 
But mostly we prefer to communicate via PM for any minor transgressions - it has to be something pretty major or a persistent transgression to merit a warning.
Member
Posted 09 May 2016 - 12:56
I understand your point, but I guess I just don't see it that way. I think it strengthens your hand, though some people might try and push the limits these limits are effectively out there anyway if you care to look hard enough it seems.
Lets agree to disagree 
Member
Posted 09 May 2016 - 14:43
We do maintain broad guidelines, but it would be somewhat self-defeating to publish them - we'd just get some people seeing how far they could push the rules before getting a warning.
There's also a lot that goes on behind the scenes. Warnings aren't issued often - and even when they are, there has almost always been a discussion between two or more moderators, since it's likely to relate to a reported post - which we can all see - or one which one of us has pulled off the board. We don't just delete them - they're stored in our private archive, since some time down the line we might need to refer back to it if you do something really, really bad!
Reading this leaves me more perplexed than I was previously.
Member
Posted 09 May 2016 - 15:29
Over what?
IMO, it's just the right combination of clarity, mystery, and readiness to inflict pain. 
Member
Posted 09 May 2016 - 16:42
I'm feeling criminal now...We do maintain broad guidelines, but it would be somewhat self-defeating to publish them - we'd just get some people seeing how far they could push the rules before getting a warning.
There's also a lot that goes on behind the scenes. Warnings aren't issued often - and even when they are, there has almost always been a discussion between two or more moderators, since it's likely to relate to a reported post - which we can all see - or one which one of us has pulled off the board. We don't just delete them - they're stored in our private archive, since some time down the line we might need to refer back to it if you do something really, really bad!
Member
Posted 31 July 2016 - 13:43
I suddenly noticed warning points being displayed under my profile, is this visible to everyone?
Administrator
Posted 31 July 2016 - 13:51
No. Only you (and members of the moderating team) can see any warning points you may have.
Member
Posted 31 July 2016 - 13:56
Thanks, that makes sense. Otherwise it would have been public shaming and the forum would have had one active member less.
Member
Posted 31 July 2016 - 23:32
Are they like points on your driver's license? After a period of time they go away? I can't recall what I even got written up for.
Administrator
Posted 01 August 2016 - 06:21
Are they like points on your driver's license? After a period of time they go away? I can't recall what I even got written up for.
No, they stay with you forever. However, the older they get, the less potency they have.
Member
Posted 01 August 2016 - 12:33
No, they stay with you forever. However, the older they get, the less potency they have.
Kind of like HSV. 
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Member
Posted 02 August 2016 - 01:00
Thanks, that makes sense. Otherwise it would have been public shaming and the forum would have had one active member less.
You've just public-shamed your self by admitting to us all that you have at least one. 
Member
Posted 02 August 2016 - 07:20
Administrator
Posted 02 August 2016 - 09:12
three years on I still think they should a) expire after time and b) not be displayed below the avatar.
It is a souring experience just to see the word "warning" emblazoned there all the time
Regarding:
a) - it is possible to do that, although it's a very complicated process, which we'd rather not get into or explain, since people who continually sail close to the wind could be able to use it to their advantage by simply waiting until their points expired and starting again. Do bear in mind that only you and the moderators can see how many points you have - the moderation team changes over time, so the points can sometimes be a useful indicator for new mods if a post you have made is reported. But as I said previously, they lose their potency over time.
b) If you use an adblocker or similar, you can use its element picker to hide that 'souring experience'. Mods will still see your points. But you won't.
Member
Posted 02 August 2016 - 20:59
You've just public-shamed your self by admitting to us all that you have at least one.
I'm not afraid to say things have happened with me on the forum, but I moved on. So should you.
PS: If you feel like you have a bone to pick with me, you're free to PM me instead of trying to put me in the spotlights with this kind of wannabe-mudslinger exercise.
Edited by Jejking, 02 August 2016 - 21:04.
Member
Posted 02 August 2016 - 21:04
Regarding:
a) - it is possible to do that, although it's a very complicated process, which we'd rather not get into or explain, since people who continually sail close to the wind could be able to use it to their advantage by simply waiting until their points expired and starting again. Do bear in mind that only you and the moderators can see how many points you have - the moderation team changes over time, so the points can sometimes be a useful indicator for new mods if a post you have made is reported. But as I said previously, they lose their potency over time.
b) If you use an adblocker or similar, you can use its element picker to hide that 'souring experience'. Mods will still see your points. But you won't.
Agree with point a. It shouldn't just go away, it would make things a lot easier for trolls. Point b. Disagreed. Why should we have to do something to hide everything while you have the resources to hide it permanently? It's just ugly.
Member
Posted 03 August 2016 - 02:01
I'm not afraid to say things have happened with me on the forum, but I moved on. So should you.
PS: If you feel like you have a bone to pick with me, you're free to PM me instead of trying to put me in the spotlights with this kind of wannabe-mudslinger exercise.
I apologise, My comment was meant in the most light hearted of ways. I just liked the irony of highlighting the fact of having warning points while beoaning the impression that the warning points might be public. (Btw, I have two of the ******)
Member
Posted 03 August 2016 - 19:27
Jejking 
Have a bone to pick with you, and don't think a PM fits the problem.
If you didn't want to be "in the spotlight," then why didn't you just PM one of the admins?
Personally, don't think Tsarwash needed to apologise, nor to explain that his post was a joke - and a funny one, on point. 
As you've also learned, it wasn't a mudslinging exercise either, "wannabe" or not.
If anything, the person who should apologise is you, for your intemperate bullshit.
Speaking of which, this kinda attitude is also not likely to make friends with the right people:
Why should we have to do something to hide everything while you have the resources to hide it permanently?
Member
Posted 03 August 2016 - 22:25
Member
Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:42
FWIW, my feelings about the warning points go hither and yon, but never rise to the level of passion.
After the "warning points" field appeared one day, seemingly without warning, was kinda bemused, and yet figured out pretty quickly that only the admins and I could see how many warning points I had, because I couldn't see how many warning points anybody else had (I looked ).
Gave them thoughts as the going between myself and other posters got rough on occasion, as they had in the past, and as I got warnings from admins via PM on occasion, as I had in the past.
Then Brother Fox's thread appeared, and I learned more about them than I had known, and gave them hardly any more thought, except for the occasional visit to this thread.
Certainly never thought or felt that they were part of a "shaming" system, merely part of a "keeping the peace" system devised by admins for a place that had grown dramatically in size, and changed from an initially rambunctious but somewhat self-policing place, to a place that needed policing.
Anyway, do agree with the admin thinking about to whom they are displayed, which is an extension of the long-standing philosophy that goes back to the middle Atlas period - "Rules are rules, not challenges." As such, there are no fences to swing for, nor "badass pecking orders" - just folks and umpires, and the umpires are just folks too. And as a result, this BB remains one of the most hospitable, if not the most hospitable, places on the Internet, whose duration as such is something of a minor, if not major, miracle.
Dat's all fer now.
Edited by Zmeej, 04 August 2016 - 12:48.
Member
Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:58
Even though only the admins and I can see the warning, it is sort of a 'badge of honor' - Fact that it remain makes it even more so, not sure showing in public will achieve anything good - Me showing 1, and 'poster of choice' showing 37120 will either make him stand out as more badge honored, or a trouble maker you can rile up through the old pointy stick routine.
We should resurrect this thread on occasion, there is passion and a quest for knowledge :-)
Member
Posted 09 August 2016 - 20:30
I have 0 warning points 
that's because I'm an old timer
Member
Posted 16 August 2016 - 00:58
I want them displayed publicly.
Only to see where I fit in the Grand scheme of things.
Like..............who's got the high score
Member
Posted 08 October 2016 - 20:03
Administrator
Posted 08 October 2016 - 21:40
Does this system take into account that it's posters may have some intellectual abilty impairment such as Autism or Aspergers when posts can be misinterpreted due to not understanding vocal inflections.
I ask because there's nothing worse than a system with inflexible or closed mind moderators.
You are always at liberty to dispute any warning points by PM, either to the mod who has issued them, to myself or to Buttoneer - as long as you can provide a coherent reason for doing so. Things like 'It's not fair' or 'But he started it' are not coherent reasons. 
But I don't think any of us would like to be considered as having closed minds or being inflexible.
Posts may sometimes be removed as 'collateral damage' - they might be responding to or quoting one which has itself been removed or be part of an OT thread drift, so they would essentially be 'orphans' and no longer have any context. Their removal is no reflection on you and they certainly wouldn't be held against you.
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