116 replies to this topic

[mnmracer]

Talking to BBC's Lee McKenzie prior to the 2013 Italian Grand Prix, 7-time world champion Formula One Michael Schumacher is asked how he feels about Fernando Alonso and how he has been criticizing his team, Ferrari, about not supplying him with a good enough car.

 

"If you're part of the team, then you're partially responsible for the results. I don't think in the last three years I ever complained against the team. Because those guys, they work off their nuts to make the best possible. It does take time, and sometimes it takes a bit longer, and sometimes, it maybe doesn't happen. But still, your of this family and you do it together. You win and you lose together."

Edited by mnmracer, 07 September 2013 - 15:15.

[sopa]

Golden words.

[Seanspeed]

Strike while the iron is hot, eh mnm?

[Deerfield]

I hope Freddie listen to MS words and tries to understand them... MS still a top master

[George Costanza]

Michael, of all people, knows how long it took.... yes, he is spot on about it.

[Lucass]

Michael is completely right ofcourse you win as a team and lose or don't win as a team. Criticism should be kept indoors.

 

However in defense of Alonso, Michael was not in a similar position when the times were tough for him during the early Ferrari years and during is Mercedes stint. During the former he was in the beginning of his career and during the latter he had already achieved everything.

 

Fernando is reaching the end of his career, he wasted some years at macca and Renault and now sees what he thought would be the years to harvest go to waste while he's driving arguably better then ever. I get why he's annoyed but openly criticizing Ferrari is not going to make the car better, it will only lead to friction with LdM. That would be fine if he wants to leave Ferrari but he has no alterbative really. Puzzles me really

[krea]

Well, Schumacher was a team player.

He never said something against his team in the public.

[surbjits]

Good ol' Mike

 

"You win and lose together".

Edited by surbjits, 07 September 2013 - 15:51.

[krea]

Schumacher in Suzuka 2006 after he lost the title.

 

 

Do anyone believe that Alonso would do the same?

[Seanspeed]

Schumacher in Suzuka 2006 after he lost the title.

 

 

Do anyone believe that Alonso would do the same?

 

Alonso after losing the title in Brazil last year. 

 

I also remember him being gracious after Abu Dhabi. 

 

Schumacher was great when it came to Ferrari, but lets not pretend he couldn't be a sore loser either.  We've seen the lengths the guy went to in order to win. 

[surbjits]

Schumacher was great when it came to Ferrari, but lets not pretend he couldn't be a sore loser either.  We've seen the lengths the guy went to in order to win. 

 

The argument was whether Schumacher publicly shunned his team, in the way Alonso has done of late. For which the answer is no.

 

In the face of adversity during 2012 he kept calm, even though he could've understandably, publicly, blamed the team.

Edited by surbjits, 07 September 2013 - 16:10.

[krea]

 

 

Alonso after losing the title in Brazil last year. 

 

I also remember him being gracious after Abu Dhabi. 

 

Schumacher was great when it came to Ferrari, but lets not pretend he couldn't be a sore loser either.  We've seen the lengths the guy went to in order to win. 

 

None of the titles were lost because of a technical failure.

 

And Alonso was a pretty sore loser in 2010 - blaming Pretov etc.

[schuey100]

Alonso has a history of it, remember the way he openly criticised Renault towards the end of the season when he was struggling? Alonso and Schumacher are obviously very different people, Schumacher was known as a team builder and revelled in it. Alonso has never been that, but I don't think that's a bad thing per se, just a different attitude.

 

I would prefer Alonso to keep quiet, work as a team player and defend everyone from all accusations but he's just not that guy. So you have to accept him the way he is.

[Seanspeed]

The argument was whether Schumacher publicly shunned his team, in the way Alonso has done of late. For which the answer is no.

That's not the question I responded to.

[prty]

 

Alonso after losing the title in Brazil last year. 

 

I also remember him being gracious after Abu Dhabi. 

 

Schumacher was great when it came to Ferrari, but lets not pretend he couldn't be a sore loser either.  We've seen the lengths the guy went to in order to win. 

 

Ouch, now you left him with nothing to say

[SpaMaster]

Whatever shenanigans Schumacher indulged on track, he was a total team player for his team. He is totally qualified to make these comments and said at the right time as well. The team members are working as hard to win. Just because another team has produced a better car, it does not mean these guys are slacking. Sometimes a team is on a roll and Red Bull is that now. It is not like McLaren or Mercedes is doing any better than Ferrari. In spite of all these, Ferrari has still given a car that has enabled Alonso to have two very close championship fights against Red Bull.

[Seanspeed]

None of the titles were lost because of a technical failure.

 

And Alonso was a pretty sore loser in 2010 - blaming Pretov etc.

I fail to see what it matters whether it was a technical failure, a bad strategy or an underperforming car? 

 

I also never said Alonso couldn't be a sore loser.  But you were asking whether or not Alonso would ever be gracious with Ferrari after losing a title like Michael did.  I answered that.  It apparently was not what you were hoping for. 

[Buttoneer]

Schumacher is completely right of course and on the whole lived by that coda.  But I don't know if his words were particularly intended to be critical of Alonso and I don't know that it's particularly fair to criticise him either.  OK so we heard a critical comment but behind the scenes he might be incredibly good with them.

 

SpaMaster

[Andy35]

I think you have to remember, as someone else said on this thread earlier it must be hard for Alonso that another driver may get 4, 5 or 6 etc WDC whilst he sits not getting any even though in his eyes he is better. 

 

I know in his position I would feel the same.  We are all human.

 

It's not Ferrari to blame for this, it is the FIA and the rules. Far far too much is on the aero. It's the engineers winning the WDC not the drivers. 

[Dozer]

 

Alonso after losing the title in Brazil last year. 

 

I also remember him being gracious after Abu Dhabi. 

 

Schumacher was great when it came to Ferrari, but lets not pretend he couldn't be a sore loser either.  We've seen the lengths the guy went to in order to win. 

 

 

Good response

[krea]

I fail to see what it matters whether it was a technical failure, a bad strategy or an underperforming car? 

 

I also never said Alonso couldn't be a sore loser.  But you were asking whether or not Alonso would ever be gracious with Ferrari after losing a title like Michael did.  I answered that.  It apparently was not what you were hoping for. 

We're talking about how a driver reacts if his team "let him down".

 

And Alonso has a history of acting like a child - see McLaren and his lastest comments.

[Jimmy]

Let's also remember Schumacher was *seriously* close to signing for McLaren in mid-1998 when it wasn't happening at Ferrari.

[krea]

Let's also remember Schumacher was *seriously* close to signing for McLaren in mid-1998 when it wasn't happening at Ferrari.

 

It was never more than "rumours", which ended in a new contract with Ferrari until 2002.

[surbjits]

Let's also remember Schumacher was *seriously* close to signing for McLaren in mid-1998 when it wasn't happening at Ferrari.

 

 

lol

[apexpredator]

Schumi was a great team player, he was a master in rallying the team together, galvanizing the entire squad and getting them working around him.

 

But in fairness to Alonso, Schumi had a team that matched his own competence and were operating at his level. Alonso doesn't have that, he's a better driver right now than Ferrari are a team (I'm a Ferrari fan first btw), so it must get frustrating

 

Vettel is happy because he has a designer and a management operating at a level that matches his. Ferrari can say Alonso is replaceable, but frankly many agree that he's carried the team and disguised their lackluster operation. Wasn't it Patrick Head last year (or 2011) that told Sky that without Alonso Ferrari would be in a depression right now a la the 90's.

Edited by apexpredator, 07 September 2013 - 16:52.

[DutchQuicksilver]

The argument was whether Schumacher publicly shunned his team, in the way Alonso has done of late. For which the answer is no.

 

In the face of adversity during 2012 he kept calm, even though he could've understandably, publicly, blamed the team.

 

So Alonso should be a carbon copy of Schumacher? I'm glad we have these characters in F1, instead of all of them being like Vettel, never critisizing anyone.

[Vesuvius]

So Alonso should be a carbon copy of Schumacher? I'm glad we have these characters in F1, instead of all of them being like Vettel, never critisizing anyone.

Vettel has critisized team etc on radio so don't know what you are on about

[prty]

 

lol

 

 

Oops, quick, delete it, this thread wasn't created for making Schumacher and Alonso's critics look like a hypocrites

Edited by prty, 07 September 2013 - 17:06.

[thechin]

Whatever shenanigans Schumacher indulged on track, he was a total team player for his team. He is totally qualified to make these comments and said at the right time as well. The team members are working as hard to win. Just because another team has produced a better car, it does not mean these guys are slacking. Sometimes a team is on a roll and Red Bull is that now. It is not like McLaren or Mercedes is doing any better than Ferrari. In spite of all these, Ferrari has still given a car that has enabled Alonso to have two very close championship fights against Red Bull.

Was Schumi such a team player when he was sitting at home pretending to still be injured in '99 so he wouldn't have to come back and help Irvine? Remember him playing football while Luca was on the phone to his daughter. OK, he then came back and did a good job at Malaysia but I have my doubts he did everything he could at Suzuka to help Irvine. 

 

Schumacher was probably the most single minded selfish driver I have ever witnessed in this sport. 

[Sabre1977]

Ok. Lets take schumacher model for alonso...i haven't seen alonso doing things like monaco 2006 or jerez 97.. Or spa 98...

Everyone have his own shits.Michael too

[HPT]

 

lol

 

I'm still amazed how Schumi would say that in full view of the media. I'm sure he knew he was being recorded. There were at least two cameras on them as they managed to switch angles in the middle of a sentence.

[fabr68]

Can someone post the actual article or evidence showing Alonso criticizing Ferrari as a team?

Because it sounds like trolling bs to me.

[Clatter]

I'm still amazed how Schumi would say that in full view of the media. I'm sure he knew he was being recorded. There were at least two cameras on them as they managed to switch angles in the middle of a sentence.

Don't see the problem, he wasn't committing himself to anything and clearly said he would respect his current contract.

[krea]

It was 1993 by the way.

[mnmracer]

So Alonso should be a carbon copy of Schumacher? I'm glad we have these characters in F1, instead of all of them being like Vettel, never critisizing anyone.

Wait, weren't you arguing against Vettel being disrespectful to the team that give him everything the other day?

Probably time to make up your mind about values, or just be honest and say everything Vettel does is wrong to you.

[bub]

Can someone post the actual article or evidence showing Alonso criticizing Ferrari as a team?

Because it sounds like trolling bs to me.

 

Yeah I'd like to know exactly how he's criticized them.as well.

[mnmracer]

Can someone post the actual article or evidence showing Alonso criticizing Ferrari as a team?

Because it sounds like trolling bs to me.

So who is trolling? BBC for asking the question?

 

BTW, as always, Google is your friend.

[PaulTodd]

So who is trolling? BBC for asking the question?

 

BTW, as always, Google is your friend.

 

http://blogs.bettor....Mercedes-a21957

[PaulTodd]

I think you have to remember, as someone else said on this thread earlier it must be hard for Alonso that another driver may get 4, 5 or 6 etc WDC whilst he sits not getting any even though in his eyes he is better. 

 

I know in his position I would feel the same.  We are all human.

 

It's not Ferrari to blame for this, it is the FIA and the rules. Far far too much is on the aero. It's the engineers winning the WDC not the drivers. 

      I'm forever saying this. It's nice to see someone understand our sport and it's problems

[eronrules]

http://blogs.bettor....Mercedes-a21957

 

 

The German, while explaining his woes opined, that the Mercedes car is a remnant of the car created last year and as a result, the drivers have to suffer as the car is not at all in harmony with the tyres or the drivers. Michael believes that the team will be able to go for the title next year as they are working very hard on the new car. The team is making sure that everything blends correctly with the drivers to ensure a good car for the upcoming season. Critics expect a lot from the German in the coming races and Michael looks like he’s up for it.

it's a bit different than saying ''for birthday,i want the car that others have'' me thinks

[Galko877]

So Schumacher talking with Ron Dennis about a team change is now equal to calling your team stupid.

 

Don't see the problem, he wasn't committing himself to anything and clearly said he would respect his current contract.

 

 

Yeah, Alonso fans are a bit desperate with that video. LOL. And even though he basically won the 1999 Malaysian GP for Irvine he didn't do it again in Suzuka so he must have done it deliberately. OK.

[Diablobb81]

I'll ignore the Schumacher trolling and on topic : everyone has a different way to approach things. The only thing that matters is if it works.

[Gorma]

It's not Ferrari to blame for this, it is the FIA and the rules. Far far too much is on the aero. It's the engineers winning the WDC not the drivers. 

Are you new to the sport? There are plenty of lower class formulae with identical cars.

[bub]

So Schumacher talking with Ron Dennis about a team change is now equal to calling your team stupid.

 

Did he definitely say that? Because if so, he is the one who is stupid.

 

Saying he wants the car the others have is not a big deal imo. He's just saying he wants the best car. I'm sure Ferrari want the best car too.

 

Tbh Schumacher is just stating the obvious.

[jstrains]

 

lol

 

Schuey's manager Wili standing there like a policeman

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

 

lol

That is 1995.

 

Look at the start of the video....look at the clothings of all the various drivers.

 

Still, nice try.

[SpaMaster]

Was Schumi such a team player when he was sitting at home pretending to still be injured in '99 so he wouldn't have to come back and help Irvine? Remember him playing football while Luca was on the phone to his daughter. OK, he then came back and did a good job at Malaysia but I have my doubts he did everything he could at Suzuka to help Irvine. 

 

Schumacher was probably the most single minded selfish driver I have ever witnessed in this sport. 

Nobody said Schumacher was selfless. The point was these guys are working for YOU, for YOUR title and wins. Don't take it out on them since they are also working as hard as you. Be considerate to people who work so hard for you. Schumacher can never ever be accused of that. He may not have had the greater good of Ferrari or F1 in mind, but he certainly was thankful to those who helped his cause. That is a great trait if you ask me. People like those would have always have the trust of others. He did not do that in Mercedes either and let's face it - he had some very horrible bad luck there. His car broke down race after race after race, yet I never got the impression he was getting peeved off with the team. Instead, he was getting more and more supportive of the team even if someone would ask him any suggestive questions.

[John Player]

That video is from a 1993 documentary called "A season with McLaren", pretty good by the way.

[surbjits]

So Alonso should be a carbon copy of Schumacher? I'm glad we have these characters in F1, instead of all of them being like Vettel, never critisizing anyone.

 

Clearly missed the point of the subject of the topic, try again.
 

[surbjits]

That is 1995.

 

Look at the start of the video....look at the clothings of all the various drivers.

 

Still, nice try.

 

I know; I posted that vid for reference (it came to mind).