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Stratospheric Vettel or is it Newey’s cars?


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#101 squall1981

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:16

I'm sure people will remember him. Hopefully like they now remember Schumacher after he exposed himself at Mercedes - nowhere near as good as the numbers say. 

 

I just hope Vettel comes up against a driver who can fight him. 

vettel is winning these titles in one of the most competitive eras ever. besides apart from 1 season in 2007 who have Hamilton and Alonso had to fight?

 

button prob the best of the lot and he outscored Hamilton over their time together and got the teams best finish of 2nd in 2011



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#102 Borko

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:16

I can't wait until he goes to another team and proves all the doubters wrong.

Do you think he would be leading the championship in any other car this year?



#103 krea

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:16

Only one of them has reliability to run a whole race

 

I guess you talk about Red Bull's test driver because Silverstone proves you wrong or the fact that Vettel is the driver with the most technical DNFs (his last non-technical DNF was his accident with Webber in 2010).



#104 Fondmetal

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:18

I'd say combination of both.

Vettel & Webber have same car, but only one of them consistently maximizes the potential.

 

Vettel is able to maximise the car in the same way Nigel did with the FW14B over Patrese. In 1991 Patrese was clsoe to Mansell, that gap grew with the active ride in 1992 more so at Silverstone that year he was some 1.8 seconds a lap quicker than Patrese in the same car. He was some 25kph quicker through Copse alone.



#105 sennafan24

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:20

vettel is winning these titles in one of the most competitive eras ever. besides apart from 1 season in 2007 who have Hamilton and Alonso had to fight?

 

button prob the best of the lot and he outscored Hamilton over their time together and got the teams best finish of 2nd in 2011

Ignoring that Lewis beat Jenson two seasons out of 3,

 

To whoever was saying about Schumi's comeback "exposing"  him, I really think it was just age and time away. No way the Schumi of 2010-2012 was the same guy from 2000-2002



#106 jesee

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:21

Give the redbull to any top driver and they would do the same. A car that is more than a second a lap faster...there is no competition. Yes he is better than Webber, but i don't think he is anything special. Newey is special.



#107 MikeV1987

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:21

Do you think he would be leading the championship in any other car this year?

Judging by his consistency he maybe wouldn't be leading but he would be closer in the points than Alonso currently is IMO.



#108 sennafan24

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:23

Judging by his consistency he maybe wouldn't be leading but he would be closer in the points than Alonso currently is IMO.

I never thought I would have this viewpoint after 2012, but I actually may agree with this .

 

It is entirely feasible.



#109 krea

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:26

I can't wait until he goes to another team and proves all the doubters wrong.

 

Why? He can have a "dominating" car anywhere else.



#110 thechin

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:27

I can't wait until he goes to another team and proves all the doubters wrong.

Nor can i but I'm afraid we may be waiting a while. 



#111 MikeV1987

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:29

I never thought I would have this viewpoint after 2012, but I actually may agree with this .

 

It is entirely feasible.

People fault him for 2012 like he was underperforming in the 1st half, he and his team mate both were having their troubles at one point or another. And yet he still took mostly top 5 finishes and kept is title bid alive for the 2nd half of the season. If that is not a top tier driver then I don't know what is.



#112 squall1981

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:29

Ignoring that Lewis beat Jenson two seasons out of 3,

 

To whoever was saying about Schumi's comeback "exposing"  him, I really think it was just age and time away. No way the Schumi of 2010-2012 was the same guy from 2000-2002

it doesn't matter he beat him 2 season just like the pts aren't that significant either however what is telling is so far in his career Hamilton has only actually outscored a poor kova as a teammate yet you talk as if he is destroying quality teammates left right and center. the excuses people keep coming up with the belittle vettel are so hypocritical because they apply to Alonso and Hamilton just as much

 

who hasn't proved themselves In a slower car? - Hamilton

who hasn't won a title in a slower car - all of them

who hasn't won titles in 2 separate cars - all of them

who hasn't won a title without a fast car - all of them

vettel hasn't done anything outside red bull

Hamilton likewise outside mccalren

Alonso has proved the most of the three challenging in 3 separate cars but he is a lot older

now the excuse is newey, if he moves to Ferrari and wins again people will just make a new excuse up without applying it to anyone else

 

vettel is doing everything that he can do, he has a fast car and he is producing, something Hamilton hasn't been able to do all the time especially 2007,2011(not for the title but car was faster than he drove it as proved by button) and 2012



#113 Borko

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:29

Judging by his consistency he maybe wouldn't be leading but he would be closer in the points than Alonso currently is IMO.

Alonso would be a lot closer to Vettel if the didn't make those costly mistakes in Malaysia and Bahrain. He would have at least 25 points more. So yes, I agree, Vettel would be closer to the leader.



#114 Nitropower

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:30

Newey. No doubt about it. Even a unmotivated midfield driver like Webber is posting 2nd, 3d places or close that when he long knows his future is far from F1 and even longer he knows he plays 2nd fiddle to Vettel.

 

Vettel is a great driver but he'd be nowhere with any other car of the grid. This is not only Vettel's case, it's most world champions case. But we men like to divinify sportsmen since we were apes, we need heroes and villains long before Romans went to their circus.

 

Vettel good, Newey's designs superb.


Edited by Nitropower, 22 September 2013 - 21:33.


#115 sennafan24

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:33

 yet you talk as if he is destroying quality teammates left right and center. 

 

 

Where have I said that, just pointing out that you are presenting one side of the argument.

 

Lewis had a slower car in 2009 for the first half, and got decent reviews for what he could drag out of it. Plus, some think he won the title in 2008 in a slower car than his rival Ferrari. Stop presenting your opinions as facts, and for lords sake stop being so defensive you bumbling clown.

 

Also, where have I really knocked Vettel in this thread, just because I am disagreeing with you one-sided and blinkered points does not mean I am knocking Vettel! Stop working in absolutes.

 

You basically conceded the 2012 debate I had earlier with you, by changing the argument so please stop posting that point of view unless you can defend it.


Edited by sennafan24, 22 September 2013 - 21:40.


#116 sennafan24

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:34

People fault him for 2012 like he was underperforming in the 1st half, he and his team mate both were having their troubles at one point or another. And yet he still took mostly top 5 finishes and kept is title bid alive for the 2nd half of the season. If that is not a top tier driver then I don't know what is.

He did perform like a top tier driver in 2012, but I felt Alonso and Lewis performed better.

 

Complete opposite this year.



#117 LewDaMan

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:35

Judging by his consistency he maybe wouldn't be leading but he would be closer in the points than Alonso currently is IMO.

 

When consistent pole positions dried up during the first half of 2012 (when Red Bull wasn't quite the best) Vettel was unable to dominate. And he was 40 odd points behind Alonso, in an inferior Ferrari. So I'm really not sure how you think Vettel would perform better than Alonso in an inferior car!?

 

When in 2012 Vettel only get the better of Alonso after Newey got the double-drs system to work (1+ gain in qualy for RB with d-drs) which meant Vettel could get back to the pole/win method.



#118 jj2728

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:35

Combination of both. Vettel is as good a driver as I've ever seen, and the RB is the class of the field.

#119 MikeV1987

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:37

Alonso would be a lot closer to Vettel if the didn't make those costly mistakes in Malaysia and Bahrain. He would have at least 25 points more. So yes, I agree, Vettel would be closer to the leader.

 

Twist my post anyway you want, Vettel is the one of the fastest (if not the fastest) and most consistent driver around right now. You put Vettel in that Ferrari and i'd bet he'd get more out of on Saturdays than Alonso for one thing.



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#120 MikeV1987

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:40

He did perform like a top tier driver in 2012, but I felt Alonso and Lewis performed better.

 

Complete opposite this year.

IMO, It was Alonso's title to lose. He had a good car in the 2nd half and some serious help from his team mate and still walked away with nothing but a blank stare at the end of the last race. That title should have been Hamilton's though but it is what it is.


Edited by MikeV1987, 22 September 2013 - 21:41.


#121 LewDaMan

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:41

 

vettel is doing everything that he can do, he has a fast car and he is producing, something Hamilton hasn't been able to do all the time especially 2007,2011(not for the title but car was faster than he drove it as proved by button) and 2012

 

You have been, rightly, ridiculed by multiple posters on this thread for some of your posts.

 

A quick word on this one. Hamilton is, by far, the best ever rookie in F1 history and got within a point of a rookie WDC in 2007. Hamilton also delivered a WDC standard season in 2012 but his car and team did not. This has been widely detailed many times but I presume you choose to ignore it for reasons of expediency?

 

I'm not sure of your motivations to write such ridiclous posts riddled with such outlandish views but if you're seeking to improve Vettel's standing on forums then I have to say that you're deeply misguided. Part of the reason Vettel struggles for widespread recognition is because of, frankly ridiculous, posts such as yours.



#122 squall1981

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:43

Twist my post anyway you want, Vettel is the one of the fastest (if not the fastest) and most consistent driver around right now. You put Vettel in that Ferrari and i'd bet he'd get more out of on Saturdays than Alonso for one thing.

whilst I am a Vettel fan i'm not 100% sure on this post, imo vettel and Alonso are the best 2 drivers in F1 atm. it is fair to say Alonso has been driving the 3rd best car on average for the past 3-4 years yet has taken the title race down to the wire on 2 occasions and is second in the title race this year despite merc being faster. I think he outperforms the Ferrari, I do think vettel would beat him as teammates simply because he is a better qualifier and Alonso would always be playing catchup but it would be close. there isn't much in it though



#123 Cyanide

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:43

Anybody denying the fact that the Red Bull is by far the best car in the field is delusional. 

 

Sure, Vettel is excellent as well, but the car is the main factor here. The second success factor is the team as a whole, and Vettel comes only third in my opinion. 

 

Also, please stop comparing Vettel's car to Webber's, as they're clearly not the same - numerous KERS, clutch, gear, electric issues in that #2 car gives you enough evidence. 



#124 Borko

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:44

Twist my post anyway you want, Vettel is the one of the fastest (if not the fastest) and most consistent driver around right now. You put Vettel in that Ferrari and i'd bet he'd get more out of on Saturdays than Alonso for one thing.

I am not twisting your post, I agree, Vettel is having a better season than Alonso, he doesn't make mistakes this year, I am just saying that Alonso himself would be much closer to Vettel if he didn't make those mistakes, so Vettel would have more points than Alonso in this Ferrari for sure with a season like this and his incredible consistency so far.



#125 sennafan24

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:46

IMO, It was Alonso's title to lose. He had a good car in the 2nd half and some serious help from his team mate and still walked away with nothing but a blank stare at the end of the last race. That title should have been Hamilton's though but it is what it is.

You are not the first person to point this out to myself, I may have to watch 2012 season review to see if my opinion changes.



#126 squall1981

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:46

A quick word on this one. Hamilton is, by far, the best ever rookie in F1 history

 

.........

 

opinion. he was also given the opportunity that hardly anyone gets in F1 driving the fastest car on the grid in your first season and the team 100% backing you. im sure alonos/kimi and vettel would of loved that opportunity and maybe would not of thrown it away in the stupid fashion Hamilton did



#127 ensign14

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:47

So the question is.  Why can't the other top teams teams keep up?  That is the elephant in the room isn't it? Maybe they need more dedication and effort to go with all that money they are spending - or something else - but nobody is going to gift it to them, they have to figure it out and get on with the program.  That is their responsibility, their whole job.

 

This is the point. They don't have the money.  Dieter Rencken suggested that RB spend £75m more than McLaren.  So RB can afford to go up half-a-dozen technical blind alleys to get the one that works more than McLaren.

 

And that's McLaren.  Not Marussia.

 

Even the argument that RB are better at getting sponsors doesn't wash.  Almost all of RB's income is RB recycling its own money.  Almost all of McLaren's is sponsorship.

 

RB's budget is over double Sauber's, nearly treble Williams', nearly five times Marussia's.  How can any of these teams compete?  It's in fact amazing they're all so close - 20 years ago a Marussia type team would be struggling to qualify.

 

Not that RB is exactly wasting its money; they spend less than Ferrari.  But it gets to the point where if RB are struggling with something they just buy in more engineers with more money than anyone else to solve it.  Whereas other teams have to rely on what they have.

 

Or they can try and get more money.  Which is impossible.  Fauxtus have a World Champion on their books, they were pushing for the championship lead, and what happens?  They're going bust.  If they can't do it, who can?  Williams?  They cut their cloth to match their income rather than going for broke, and are now where they were in 1976.  One top ten finish all year.

 

The real elephant in the room is the not-so-lamented Max had the right idea on budgets.  And he was vetoed by the big spenders, who are evidently not so confident they could do the best job with a level playing field.  Cap everyone with £50m spends and let's see what happens.  At the very least, we could have five or six more teams.



#128 MikeV1987

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:47


 

You have been, rightly, ridiculed by multiple posters on this thread for some of your posts.

 

A quick word on this one. Hamilton is, by far, the best ever rookie in F1 history and got within a point of a rookie WDC in 2007. Hamilton also delivered a WDC standard season in 2012 but his car and team did not. This has been widely detailed many times but I presume you choose to ignore it for reasons of expediency?

 

I'm not sure of your motivations to write such ridiclous posts riddled with such outlandish views but if you're seeking to improve Vettel's standing on forums then I have to say that you're deeply misguided. Part of the reason Vettel struggles for widespread recognition is because of, frankly ridiculous, posts such as yours.

If only we would see more rookies come into F1 straight to a top team with thousands of miles of testing under their belt before the first race of the season...  

 

How often does that happen again?


Edited by MikeV1987, 22 September 2013 - 21:49.


#129 Niceone

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:51

2007: 

-Scored point in his first GP (with BMW).  

-Half season with Toro Rosso. Was once 4th and scored 5 points from that. Speed got 0 points and Liuzzi 3 points in 2007. 

 

2008:

-Scored 35 points with one victory with freaking Toro Rosso (started from pole). Bourdais scored 4 points with same car

 

2009: 

-2nd in WDC, Webber 4th

 

2010:

-Won WDC, Webber 3rd

 

2011:

-Won WDC, Webber 3rd

 

2012:

-Won WDC, Webber 6th

 

2013:

-Leading WDC, Webber 5th

 

It's possible that no other driver could have won WDC with Red Bull. All we know Webber could be really fast driver, but Vettel's skills could be god like. It's hard to tell when you can only compare team mates..

----

Question for Vettel haters: What would Vettel have to do before you think he's one of the best drivers at the moment..or maybe the best? He can't change his team mate and he has already proven him self in Toro Rosso.



#130 v@sh

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:52

It's a combination of both, I don't think a few posters don't give Vettel enough credit. He wasn't as good in previous years but this year he has been absolutely brilliant. If people read Mark Hugh's article re driving styles from 2011 where he compared the top 5 contenders at the time, the Pirelli's suited Vettel driving style to a tee. Add on top of Newey's brilliant but fragile cars, you get the dominance that we are receiving now. It's up to Ferrari (who still have wind tunnel issues) and the others to catch up.



#131 LewDaMan

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:55

A quick word on this one. Hamilton is, by far, the best ever rookie in F1 history

 

.........

 

opinion. he was also given the opportunity that hardly anyone gets in F1 driving the fastest car on the grid in your first season and the team 100% backing you. im sure alonos/kimi and vettel would of loved that opportunity and maybe would not of thrown it away in the stupid fashion Hamilton did

 

In their debut years Alonso certainly impressed for Minardi, but Vettel was beaten by Liuzzi in all but one area and Raikkonen was beaten by his teammate in his first two years.

 

Also, Hamilton earned that seat at McLaren (they were strongly considering other drivers to partner Alonso) by winning every formula of junior racing he participated in. He was back- to-back F3 Euroseries and (rookie) GP2 Champion in 2005 and 2006 ffs!

 

And earning that seat brings pressure that driving in a rookie year for Minardi, Torro Rosso and Sauber does not. Hamilton delivered. Massively so in beating the reigning 2xWDC as a teammate.



#132 bourbon

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:59

I agree with the first statement quite conclusively

 

But the second sounds like you demand the other teams/driver to be shamed, whilst no critic is allowed at Seb/RB. You can not expect your team and driver to be universally loved and accepted, yet alone demand it. 

 

Its a shame you make reasonable observations and present a good case for Seb to be admired, then ruin it with silly comments like that.

 

I'm sure you'll get over it. :p

 

Another record of note was broken by Vettel today.  He has now won more races than any other driver on the grid.  At 26.  Some records like fastest lap and first to wear a heat sensing helmet are simply for fun.  But others, like this particular stat stand for the hard work, determination and dedication he has poured into his driving. 

 

It is always the driver + the car.  I don't know why the focus must be entirely on one or the other.  That stat I just provided could not have happened without the efforts of man and machine; neither should be left out of the equation.


Edited by bourbon, 22 September 2013 - 22:00.


#133 ensign14

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:08

Question for Vettel haters: What would Vettel have to do before you think he's one of the best drivers at the moment..or maybe the best? He can't change his team mate and he has already proven him self in Toro Rosso.

 

Not a Vettel hater, but until he proves himself against a genuine top-line team-mate there will always be a question mark over how good he really is.  For whatever reason Red Bull are not interested in that - and it might cost them in the long-term as they're pissing off their own target audience.



#134 sennafan24

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:37

I'm sure you'll get over it. :p

 

 

 

 

Nah its ruined my day   ;)



#135 Jejking

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:55

Guys, why isn't it possible for anybody to think of the setup? I honestly think Vettel and Red Bull nailed it this weekend. The car literally had no wheelspin and behaved perfectly, compare it to Rosbergs lap who was working so much harder in his Merc.

 

I suspect this is one of the rare examples in the tyre-saving formula where somebody has a huge advantage because the setup is perfect in a really good car. Go check Spa 2002 where Schumacher rolled up the field with 1 second a lap OVER HIS TEAMMATE and 2 seconds over the NEXT CAR in the dry. The way Vettel drove was amazing, he pulled it out from nowhere and he liked Singapore already before today.


Edited by Jejking, 22 September 2013 - 22:55.


#136 Niceone

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 23:35

Not a Vettel hater, but until he proves himself against a genuine top-line team-mate there will always be a question mark over how good he really is.  For whatever reason Red Bull are not interested in that - and it might cost them in the long-term as they're pissing off their own target audience.

Yes, from current drivers Hamilton is the only so called "top-line"-driver who has proven him self against another "top-line"-driver. 

 

Next year Alonso and Räikkönen both have chance to prove them self against "top-line team-mate".



#137 Niceone

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 23:42

In their debut years Alonso certainly impressed for Minardi, but Vettel was beaten by Liuzzi in all but one area and Raikkonen was beaten by his teammate in his first two years..

..on the other hand in WDC standings Alonso was beaten by his "super talent" team mate Tarso Marques.



#138 Kingshark

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:03

Why do some Vettel fans use Webber as a benchmark to prove that the Red Bull is not the best car on the grid? The delusional biased is strong with this one.

 

I have yet to see an Alonso fan who uses Massa to argue that Ferrari had a terrible car in the 1st half of 2012, when Alonso lead the WDC by some 40 points.

Nor have I yet to see a single Hamilton fan use Kovalainen's performances in 2008 to prove that Lewis won a WDC with the 4th best car.

 

Webber has been a joke this year, almost as much as he was in 2011. Likewise, the Red Bull we saw today was one of the most dominant cars in recent history (2000's).



#139 sennafan24

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:05

Why do some Vettel fans use Webber as a benchmark to prove that the Red Bull is not the best car on the grid? The delusional biased is strong with this one.

 

I have yet to see an Alonso fan who uses Massa to argue that Ferrari had a terrible car in the 1st half of 2012, when Alonso lead the WDC by some 40 points.

Nor have I yet to see a single Hamilton fan use Kovalainen's performances in 2008 to prove that Lewis won a WDC with the 4th best car.

 

Webber has been a joke this year, almost as much as he was in 2011. Likewise, the Red Bull we saw today was one of the most dominant cars in recent history (2000's).

I agree that anyone claiming Webber as some sort of benchmark is incorrect.

 

The guy has been washed up since 2011, this year he has looked ancient, very much like Ricardo Patrese did in 1993 taking on a young Schumi!



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#140 Mandzipop

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:23

Has Newey ever been this successful with any other driver?

 

It is the package. They all work as a unit. Nobody at Red Bull takes the individual credit. I've only just noticed it but they deflect credit. I'm talking about the entire team.

 

However, Seb was let loose with the car. This is rare nowadays. Being told to push is almost unheard of. Everyone else was in tyre saving mode. It just shows how much the drivers are holding back on the car performance.



#141 josepatches

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:47

The truth is Red Bull is the best car but only Sebastian Vettel's one.  It's the combination of the best driver and the best car



#142 Raven8

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:50

95% Newey



#143 pingu666

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:52

they do work really damn well as a team

maybe hes devloped over the years? i think hes really good now, in the past i thought he was just pretty good



#144 Winter98

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:56

There isn't a team on the grid who would rather have Vettel over Newey.

And there isn't a team on the grid that wouldn't like to have Vettel.



#145 Raven8

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 00:57

A quick word on this one. Hamilton is, by far, the best ever rookie in F1 history

 

.........

 

opinion. he was also given the opportunity that hardly anyone gets in F1 driving the fastest car on the grid in your first season and the team 100% backing you. im sure alonos/kimi and vettel would of loved that opportunity and maybe would not of thrown it away in the stupid fashion Hamilton did

Same old nonsense. It ws McLaren who threw it away 2007, with a ceratain other driver playing a major role

And hamilton had never the advantage of having a really superior car and the chance to defend his title after 2008



#146 bourbon

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:10

Why do some Vettel fans use Webber as a benchmark to prove that the Red Bull is not the best car on the grid? The delusional biased is strong with this one.

 

I have yet to see an Alonso fan who uses Massa to argue that Ferrari had a terrible car in the 1st half of 2012, when Alonso lead the WDC by some 40 points.

Nor have I yet to see a single Hamilton fan use Kovalainen's performances in 2008 to prove that Lewis won a WDC with the 4th best car.

 

Webber has been a joke this year, almost as much as he was in 2011. Likewise, the Red Bull we saw today was one of the most dominant cars in recent history (2000's).

 

Whatever - all it had to be was better than the rest and all we needed from Seb was driving it to victory, which he did, brilliantly.  It is always the car+ driver, not just one or the other.  So what is the problem? 



#147 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:38

They compliment each other.

.

Vettel is quickly becoming a legend.


Edited by InSearchOfThe, 23 September 2013 - 01:39.


#148 Cenotaph

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 02:07

I think people shouldn't be so shortsighted. Just because the RBR has been the class of the field since the summer break, it doesn't mean that the car is so far ahead of others this season. This hasn't been an easy season from the get go like 2011, yet Vettel started leading by race 2 and never looked back.

 

Infact, just after Hungary, lots of ppl were feeling Hamilton was the only true challenger despite being an astonishing 48 points behind Vettel, I wonder how ppl felt it was possible to make up that gap if the RB9 was so superior this season?

 

Credit where credit is due, if you give an honest answer to the question "who has been the best driver this season so far" most ppl will answer Vettel and experts will agree, and that alone proves that it's not just the car.

 

That being said it's the pair with this car that makes them such a phenomenal team, the ability RBR showed both last year and this year to improve compared to others is fundamental.



#149 Moosed

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 02:10

You don't lap 2-3 seconds a lap quicker than everyone else without it being down to the car. Thats not to take away Vettels performance and talent but anyone with even the slightest of clues about this sport knows that the difference in true pace between drivers is in tenths, not seconds.


Edited by Moosed, 23 September 2013 - 02:10.


#150 CoolBreeze

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 02:10

I think it's a combo of both, but mainly the car. It'll be interesting to see what Vettel can do in an inferior car. Monza 2008 comes to mind, but that was just one off. 

 

MS many times took terrible Ferraris to podiums and wins. Alonso is doing that too, last season, and this season as well. 

 

Will Vettel be able to do it?