373 replies to this topic

[Raven8]

Let's wait if the "boo- bus" arrives at Korea if Vettel should win again

[Raven8]

Anyone who paid good money to attend the race and wants to hear Vettel's podium interview has a right to hear it.  The booers interfere with that right.

 

Fans may have a right to voice their opinions about anyone, but not at "any time".  And when they pick a time that interferes with other's rights, yeah they should be stopped. 

IMo nobody wants to hear the interviews there. They are **** and the drivers don't like them, too.

I really don't need them it'd just so unnatural and annoying. Let them celabrate on the podium and make the interviews in the PR , like it was for decades. I really don't want to see  Brundle, DC, Placido Domingo or Lauda up there , everybody can see that they all feel awkward about it

[RealRacing]

If Fernando had powered through to a couple of more championships in his Renault he'd have copped the same ****, instead of finger-rage it would've been animal-hands rage. Equally as stupid. As it is, he can benefit from cheating, throw his toys out of the pram, benefit from team orders, try and blackmail his team, and it doesn't matter because he isn't dominating the sport. Hamilton can whine to his team on the radio, drop all the frickin's, make crappy jokes, lie to the stewards to calculatingly take away a competitors success, and he doesn't get booed because he isn't dominating. If Vettel wasn't dominating, he wouldn't be getting booed, and whatever crappy reason given for it by whomever is doing it, it doesn't stack up to any sort of scrutiny relative to his peers.

Agree, it is kind of strange, and sad, that people boo someone for winning instead of using questionable ethics to try to win and/or having an unlikeable character. It's as if, as long as you are trying to catch up to the dominating team/driver, everything is forgiven. In any case, I can't say if these people are just blind, irrational fans of another team or driver a-la football or just a (smarter) group booing for a specific action or actions they judge unfair, arrogant or whatever. IMO there shouldn't be a place in F1 (and sports in general really) for the first kind and if it helps to discourage this type of fan, the interview should be brought back indoors. If it's just a temporary thing, it will abate soon enough. I still prefer the press conference as it was before though.
 
 

People are pissed off with the finger because their driver isn't attached to it. That's not Seb's fault, it's everyone elses, and it reflect's on the fans personalities and behavior much more than it does on his.

Yeah, people justifying the booing because of some SV trait, gesture or action are just trying to rationalize their own reasons for hate.

[mtojay]

if a finger annoys you. what have you guys done in the early years of fernando alonso?

 

if a finger is insulting and arrogant, what were his poses on the cars when he won with renault?

 

for those of you who dont know what i mean: http://thewonderfulw...tions-never-say

 

in my opinion its double standarts as always, the finger is an excuse to not like sebastian. for me its funny and i cant do anything but laugh about you guys.     

[David Lightman]

Alonso's little dances were different each time and funny, the finger is just boring.

[mtojay]

"Alonso's little dances were different each time and funny, the finger is just boring."

 

     

 

so, a finger is insulting and arrogant. but stepping on your car after a race and impersonating a gorilla is funny :-) yeah i get it.

 

not double standarts ;-) of course not.

[Group B]

Alonso's little dances were different each time and funny, the finger is just boring.

 

Boring?!   Christ alive, the man must be shot and his body fed to the pigs; how dare he have a 'boring' gesture when he wins races. Now you've pointed it out I think I'll boo and jeer too

 

Incidentally, did Alonso do a funny dance after Singapore 2008?

[plumtree]

At least Newey doesn't seem to find the finger offensive, arrogant or boring. 

 

[Silvercheese]

Alonso's little dances were different each time and funny, the finger is just boring.

 

I found his matador version quite provocative with regards to animal cruelty and all in Spain.

[BullHead]

IMo nobody wants to hear the interviews there. They are **** and the drivers don't like them, too.

I really don't need them it'd just so unnatural and annoying. Let them celabrate on the podium and make the interviews in the PR , like it was for decades. I really don't want to see  Brundle, DC, Placido Domingo or Lauda up there , everybody can see that they all feel awkward about it

 

I agree with this. The old way was better. Also, if this system where they allow fans to gather around the podium was a feature of years gone, I'm sure we'd have had plenty of noticable booing fads before now..

 

They still give the old style post race conferences i think, just no one broadcasts them anymore.

Edited by BullHead, 30 September 2013 - 19:28.

[bourbon]

IMo nobody wants to hear the interviews there. They are **** and the drivers don't like them, too.

 

 

Well that is a fine opinion to hold, but you cannot make that decision for other fans - nor can the drivers.  I'd like them to be eliminated myself, but I can't speak for all fans - some might enjoy them.

 

I really don't need them it'd just so unnatural and annoying. Let them celabrate on the podium and make the interviews in the PR , like it was for decades. I really don't want to see  Brundle, DC, Placido Domingo or Lauda up there , everybody can see that they all feel awkward about it

 

 

They seem to be enjoying themselves - but I agree they look awkward to me too, lol.

[Mauseri]

Alonso's little dances were different each time and funny, the finger is just boring.

Maybe the crowd is yelling boo boo booring?

 

Usually people who say something is boring say it because they are unhappy about the outcome. What about just enjoying the races, or simply feeling the pain of losing if you can't?

[sennafan24]

Maybe the crowd is yelling boo boo booring?

 

 

Maybe they are chanting "boourns" "boourns"

 

In case you do not get the reference.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=up4LTKxe0PA

[rmpugh]

I dont hate anybody celebrity or everyday person. Vettels story would actually have a great positive shine about him. The way he was seen with Schumacher on Kart photos or posters of him as a kid. Growing up in the Schumacher era watching, admiring his success, like him coming in early immediately fast as a young man in big F1. Then winning in a slower car like the Toro Rosso, as Schumacher surprised in the Benetton. Racing Schumacher himself, and actually starting to put his own era on top of all these other great drivers. People love a winner usually.

 

I think this needs to be addressed. The Toro Rosso of 2008 was designed by Newey, and had the more powerful Ferrari engine. Sebastien Bourdais, who got sacked from Toro Rosso for being crap, managed to put his Toro Rosso on the second row that GP. So, it clearly wasn't a "slow car".

[Lucass]

 

I think this needs to be addressed. The Toro Rosso of 2008 was designed by Newey, and had the more powerful Ferrari engine. Sebastien Bourdais, who got sacked from Toro Rosso for being crap, managed to put his Toro Rosso on the second row that GP. So, it clearly wasn't a "slow car".

Thank you

 

I too think that it's very important it's addressed that Adrian Newey, the designer who failed to come up with a championship winning car for almost a decade, designed the Toro Rosso that a brilliant Sebastian Vettel drove to an unprecedented win in Monza that year.

 

Credit where credit is due, right

Edited by Lucass, 30 September 2013 - 22:36.

[Winter98]

if a finger annoys you. what have you guys done in the early years of fernando alonso?

 

if a finger is insulting and arrogant, what were his poses on the cars when he won with renault?

 

for those of you who dont know what i mean: http://thewonderfulw...tions-never-say

 

in my opinion its double standarts as always, the finger is an excuse to not like sebastian. for me its funny and i cant do anything but laugh about you guys.     

No no no.

 

Just look at Vettel's body language.  Clearly arogant.

 

Alonso's dances were done with the utmost humility and respect.  Samurai like in fact.

Edited by Winter98, 30 September 2013 - 22:41.

[jondon]

If i were Vettel the booing would be music to my ears... after all it means "I have just won another race".

[Silvercheese]

I think this needs to be addressed. The Toro Rosso of 2008 was designed by Newey, and had the more powerful Ferrari engine. Sebastien Bourdais, who got sacked from Toro Rosso for being crap, managed to put his Toro Rosso on the second row that GP. So, it clearly wasn't a "slow car".

 

 

 

ALFONSO DE ORLEANS-BORBON

 

 

"The chassis could have been designed by Newey, but the rest, especially the aero package, which does make a massive difference, was not. Also the whole rear of the car is designed for a different engine, which Red Bull had no input, especially since different engine contracts prohibit any interaction or technical exchange. So yes, Newey designed maybe 25%, but the other 75% was done by Ascanelli and Tost. In engineering terms that means that it was not designed by Newey, even if he contributed.

 

Another point to keep in mind, remember that Red Bull and Toro Rosso were and still are two separate teams. Which means that everything is done in-house, including all engineering work for set ups and race strategies. Newey had no input with that either, which drops his final contribution with Toro Rosso compared to Red Bull to probably less than 10% total. That is a huge difference."  

Launch is one thing, end of year race is another. Compare both cars when Vettel won. During the season Ascanelli did all the updates and most important, the Setups, which is what really affects the car. Remember, many things on the cars needed to be changed were purely done by Torro Rosso. NO input from Newey.

Keep in mind that if they were really the same cars, the results should have been better, no?

 

As for engine change, it does change the handling and the rear of the car DOES need to be redesigned. What Brawn did was fantastic. But they also had a head start and started to redesign way ahead of time. Remember, Honda pretty much told them a year ahead of time they were leaving. Ross Brawn did not sit around. By the time you hear a team do an engine deal, usually they have been working on it for quite a while.

Saying that, Ascanelli surely had enough time to redesign the rear of the car. Obviously he did a pretty good job. I have alot of respect for him.

 

Every track is different. Many different tire compounds. Different weather, temperatures, etc. Even Fuel or strategy influence choices. So every session of the weekend has different setups. Saying that, Newey, influences all these at Red Bull...but so does the driver...So there is no specific set up, unlike other categories which might just change tire pressures, ride heights and cambers only. Although surely those change from session to session too if you want to be competitive.

Although to be fair, engineers, especially Newey, or Ascanelli when he was at Torro Rosso, work out a setup window for the different scenario for each session before even arriving at the track. In GP2, which is a slightly simpler car, we do the same. At this level of racing, no one has a specific setup for the season. The car would never win races, or if it did, it was down to dumb luck. These things need constant tweaking. Just look at free practice, they could go through 10 or so changes just in one session trying to find how the car reacts at that specific moment!

If Newey designed all the cars on the grid, and separate engineers then ran each of them, including aero, geometry and mechanical updates during the year, and were then all driven by the same driver under the same conditions at the end of the season, there would be a clear order for each car. So an engineer and how he sets up a car, including all evolutions, make a big difference.

 

http://jalopnik.com/...t-the-464909217

 

Alfonso: Team Principle of Racing Engineering in GP2 and former colleague of Vettel: http://en.wikipedia....ing_Engineering

Edited by Silvercheese, 30 September 2013 - 23:21.

[ForzaGTR]

Why do people even care about this story? 

 

It's obvious why Vettel is booed, people are so sick of any one driver dominating F1, it's boring. It's a hangover from Schumi domination. It would be the same for any driver these days.

[bourbon]

How about those that boo during the driver parade before the race?

 

Well they are jerks (in the circumstances in which we are speaking), but they would not be interfering with anyone's rights.

[skyfolker]

I think this needs to be addressed. The Toro Rosso of 2008 was designed by Newey, and had the more powerful Ferrari engine. Sebastien Bourdais, who got sacked from Toro Rosso for being crap, managed to put his Toro Rosso on the second row that GP. So, it clearly wasn't a "slow car".

Lol,it's hilarious how these Vettel naysayers every time when assessing Toto Rosso's form at Italian Gp 2008 never fail to mention Bourdais's 4th place in qualifying(pardon me,2nd row ),but quite conveniently leave out that he was 9 tenths slower than Vettel.

[ClubmanGT]

I found his matador version quite provocative with regards to animal cruelty and all in Spain.

 

I grew up watching John Hopoate playing in the NRL and Vettel's finger gesture makes me uncomfortable. 

[zachary2142]

Alonso's little dances were different each time and funny, the finger is just boring.

So what you're saying is if Vettel shows a different finger instead of his index finger, you would be okay with him?

If he showed a middle finger it would also please some people, the ones who advocated Vettel rubbing his success in the face of the booers

Edited by zachary2142, 01 October 2013 - 09:19.

[joshb]

Lol,it's hilarious how these Vettel naysayers every time when assessing Toto Rosso's form at Italian Gp 2008 never fail to mention Bourdais's 4th place in qualifying(pardon me,2nd row ),but quite conveniently leave out that he was 9 tenths slower than Vettel.

and the team boss Ascanelli described it as "a great performance... by an average driver"

Every dog can have his day

[joshb]

As for the booing, there's sod all people at the Korean race so he'll be fine there.

The Japanese are proper fans, they'll respect the winners

The Indians will (hopefully) be embracing the world champion

The rich sheikhs in Abu Dhabi will be discussing their plans to drill into the seabed somewhere

The Yanks might boo

The Brazilians will boo

[Gorma]

I find it odd that Jenson Button is one of the guys coming out that he does not like Vettel's finger...

 

Edited by Gorma, 03 October 2013 - 15:57.

[skc]

I find it odd that Jenson Button is one of the guys coming out that he does not like Vettel's finger...

 

 

Buttons finger is better manicured. No comparison.

[DutchQuicksilver]

"We are pretty proud of the system we have because other people will never figure out how we have done it," he said.

 

http://www.gptoday.c...ecrets__Vettel/

 

Nico Rosberg has admitted he took objection in Singapore when world champion Sebastian Vettel suggested his rivals are lazy.

After dominating the floodlit grand prix, German Vettel explained Red Bull's advantage by insisting that while his team works "very hard", the others are "hanging their balls in the pool very early on Fridays".

It may have been a joke, but Mercedes' Rosberg did not laugh.

"Maybe he shouldn't be thinking about my balls," he is quoted on Thursday by Germany's Auto Motor und Sport.

 

http://www.gptoday.c...rivers_respect/

 

Vettel and Red Bull still don't understand why he's being booed? He doesn't respect his rivals, no wonder people are booing him. He needs to stop this arrogance. God, I hope 2014 will be a disaster year for Vettel now.

[Moosed]

If i were Vettel the booing would be music to my ears... after all it means "I have just won another race".

 

pretty sure he's already aware he won the race mate

[zippythecat]

Lol,it's hilarious how these Vettel naysayers every time when assessing Toto Rosso's form at Italian Gp 2008 never fail to mention Bourdais's 4th place in qualifying(pardon me,2nd row ),but quite conveniently leave out that he was 9 tenths slower than Vettel.

 

They also leave out that Hamilton started at or around 15th on the grid because he botched his tire choice in quali.

[apoka]

He doesn't respect his rivals, no wonder people are booing him. He needs to stop this arrogance. God, I hope 2014 will be a disaster year for Vettel now.

 

That quote was more meant to emphasize the hard work of the RB team from actually seeing the interview and what Vettel's clarification today. A bit poorly worded in hindsight, but that's it. Anyway, it's not like you suddenly hope Vettel will have a disaster 2014 year, right? As Hamilton fan, you certainly hoped that before this quote (and there is nothing wrong with that).

 

Looking at the broader picture, Vettel usually doesn't say very much about his rivals at all, whereas Hamilton, for instance, has a longer history of disrespectful comments towards Vettel. Just take the press conference today as an example and imagine someone saying that Hamilton is just cruising, has it easy etc. For Vettel, we are pretty much used to that, but I guess with reversed roles, quite a few people would suddenly be very upset.

[Racer3]

He doesn't respect his rivals, no wonder people are booing him. He needs to stop this arrogance. God, I hope 2014 will be a disaster year for Vettel now.

 

As a wise man once put it:

 

"Create yourself a bogeyman and your day will get some structure."

[Group B]

http://www.gptoday.c...ecrets__Vettel/

 

 

 

 

http://www.gptoday.c...rivers_respect/

 

Vettel and Red Bull still don't understand why he's being booed? He doesn't respect his rivals, no wonder people are booing him. He needs to stop this arrogance. God, I hope 2014 will be a disaster year for Vettel now.

 

Interesting to see a self proclaimed Hamilton lover taking such a strong position on drivers respecting rivals. Are we to assume that back in 2009 you were wishing Lewis' 2010 would be a disaster after he referred to half the grid as monkeys?

[P123]

He didn't.  But as some of Hamilton's comments have a profound effect on your dislike of him so it would seem that some people take equal or greater offence at some of Vettel's comments and use certain quotes to assist in building their dislike of him (in a way, just like you used Hmailton not wearing a team cap to vent about him).

 

As Vettel himself said- you can't please everyone!

[Group B]

He didn't.  But as some of Hamilton's comments have a profound effect on your dislike of him so it would seem that some people take equal or greater offence at some of Vettel's comments and use certain quotes to assist in building their dislike of him (in a way, just like you used Hmailton not wearing a team cap to vent about him).

 

As Vettel himself said- you can't please everyone!

 

I openly admit to not being a Hamilton fan, but I'm far less a fan of double standards. What Vettel said wasn't particularly well thought out or clever, I don't think there's any arguing with that, but those who wish to get uber virtuous about it would be better off applying the same rules and standards to everyone.

 

Incidentally, if Vettel said the RB kit wasn't cool enough for him I'd call him a dick too. I appreciate what these guys do on the track, but I don't put any of them on podiums.

Edited by Group B, 03 October 2013 - 20:33.

[sopa]

 

As Vettel himself said- you can't please everyone!

 

Well, even recently people have been claiming that Vettel "has been trying too hard to be likable, so that he rubs people the wrong way and leaves an impression of being fake." So they bring out the Abu Dhabi 2012 podium (swearing after Kimi), and other.

 

So maybe Vettel realized that this "trying too hard" doesn't work and he should forget about pleasing people. So he now feels more free in giving those interviews, speaking his mind, making his kind of jokes (instead of copying Kimi like some have insisted) and being more like Dick Dastardly. Maybe that's good.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Interesting to see a self proclaimed Hamilton lover taking such a strong position on drivers respecting rivals. Are we to assume that back in 2009 you were wishing Lewis' 2010 would be a disaster after he referred to half the grid as monkeys?

Where does it say I'm a Hamilton fan?

[Group B]

Where did I say I was a Hamilton fan?

 

Well, the subtle clue that gives it away is where you wrote in your profile next to 'Favourite driver' - 'Lewis Hamilton'

[bub]

He didn't.  But as some of Hamilton's comments have a profound effect on your dislike of him so it would seem that some people take equal or greater offence at some of Vettel's comments and use certain quotes to assist in building their dislike of him (in a way, just like you used Hmailton not wearing a team cap to vent about him).

 

As Vettel himself said- you can't please everyone!

 

Well said.

[Lucass]

Where does it say I'm a Hamilton fan?

Haha thanks Group B lol

[Raven8]

Interesting to see a self proclaimed Hamilton lover taking such a strong position on drivers respecting rivals. Are we to assume that back in 2009 you were wishing Lewis' 2010 would be a disaster after he referred to half the grid as monkeys?

This was a joke, but he may not be allowed to make jokes, Not like Vettel!

[Ramses1348]

if a finger annoys you. what have you guys done in the early years of fernando alonso?

 

if a finger is insulting and arrogant, what were his poses on the cars when he won with renault?

 

for those of you who dont know what i mean: http://thewonderfulw...tions-never-say

 

in my opinion its double standarts as always, the finger is an excuse to not like sebastian. for me its funny and i cant do anything but laugh about you guys.     

 

God I hated those celebrations from FA. That made my eyes hurt. So no double standard on my side, both are/were annoying celebrations. Not a huge deal though... 

[Ramses1348]

Buttons finger is better manicured. No comparison.

 

he also had the decency of stopping to do it after one year!

[repete]

he also had the decency of stopping to do it after one year!

maybe he should have won more the other years.

[shonguiz]

maybe he should have won more the other years.

haha

[Cool Beans]

if a finger annoys you. what have you guys done in the early years of fernando alonso?

 

if a finger is insulting and arrogant, what were his poses on the cars when he won with renault?

 

for those of you who dont know what i mean: http://thewonderfulw...tions-never-say

 

in my opinion its double standarts as always, the finger is an excuse to not like sebastian. for me its funny and i cant do anything but laugh about you guys.     

Oh jesus, I'd managed to somehow wipe this from my memory. It's like the facepalminess of his tweets served in a physical form 

[JohnnySchwaffel]

What I think is really crazy is that the media say's that there's a bunch of people visiting the GP's to BOO Vettel's wins, as if they travel the world to be able to do all just that.

 

LOL; what about this theory :  AT Every Grand Prix, in Every Country in the world people are ALL fed up with his arrogance and finger? ... Like in, it are different people every freakin' time.

 

sound more sensible, and this means he is much less liked than they want to admit.

[Group B]

 

So you think numerous members of the media and paddock are all just lying and throwing away their own credibility in a desperate attemp to protect Vettel?

[JohnnySchwaffel]

Well, why then is it, that nobody has a picture or movie from the folks what do the BOO-ing all the time? IF they are the same people all the time, flying over the world to say BOO. (very logical....?)

 

If one can hear it on the podium, people just have to turn they're freakin head towards the BOO-ers or am I wrong?

 

And in order to claim it's "that one BOO-group" as they claim, then they have faces and names. But somehow they remain "anonymous",... isn't that a littlebit weird?

[apoka]

Well, why then is it, that nobody has a picture or movie from the folks what do the BOO-ing all the time? IF they are the same people all the time, flying over the world to say BOO. (very logical....?)

 

Here you go: