29 replies to this topic

[kayemod]

Has anyone here seen what recent issues of Motor Sport have been advertising as an extra at £7.99 with this title? I haven't been looking very assiduously, in fact I've hardly looked at all, but is it worth getting for a bit of extra reading over what I suppose I have to refer to as "The Festive Season"? If it's full of all the usual over-rated suspects like Mansell's win after passing a slowing Nelson Piquet at Silverstone, and Villeneuve's victorious race-long blocking in Spain, I'll probably give it a miss, even if I do find a copy somewhere, but someone on here must have got a copy. Should I buy it, or invest the same amount in a nice bottle of Merlot?.

[arttidesco]

I'd gate a goggle of Cava (Sainsbury's own brand of course) and two bars of whole hazelnut  Ritter Sport for that, I'd probably enjoying my recently acquired 1960 - 1980 back collection of Motor Sports to come up with my own list of 100 best Grand Prix's with the time saved reading it too. 

 

On the other hand I might forgo all that and help TNF's very own Sir Douglas of Ni and Simione Aarronundelli secure a seasonal bonus 15p Luncheon Voucher ;-)  

Edited by arttidesco, 14 December 2013 - 10:59.

[Collombin]

I flicked through it on the news stand, I certainly wasn't about to part with any hard stolen cash on it though.

Yes, all the usual over-rated suspects are included, although to say much more would act as a spoiler for fellow TNFers eager to buy a copy to discover what the top 100 races were, ranked in definitve order.

Sarcasm aside, at least the selections did seem to cover the full history of Grand Prix racing.

Edited by E.B., 14 December 2013 - 14:20.

[f1steveuk]

Oh dear, more less than creative ideas, no wonder I stopped buying it...................

[D-Type]

It could be worse:  "100 greatest watches", "100 greatest watch owners", "100 motor racing drivers/personalitis who bought our advertisers' products", "100 races we have half decent [ie potentailly sellable] photographs of" . 

 

At least it is motor racing related.  I believe Santa has one somewhere in his sack so maybe I'll have something to look at over the festive season.

 

As to the selection: I [we?] will agree with most of them, will disagree with the ranking, will be able to name at least five races that should have been included, but will have difficulty deciding which five should have been left out.  Hopefully there won't be too many glaring errors and the question is then "How many less obvious ones will TNFmembers find?"

[PRD]

Slightly disappointing offering from Motor Sport I thought, having flicked through it in WHS and not worth the money for a hardened enthusiast. I've put it down to them trying to expand their market for Christmas, but its a bit, er..Haymarket.

 

Motor Sport magazine itself has been excellent since the new regime have found their feet though and has been well worth the sub

[kayemod]

...its a bit, er..Haymarket.

 

 

 

Thanks, that tells me all I need to know, so Merlot here I come.

[Glengavel]

How do you rate a hundred of anything, let alone Grands Prix? I know it's probably taken from several tens/dozens/thousands of opinions, or even some bloke down the pub, but still...

[Sharman]

I haven't looked at the offering but for me some of the best Grand Prix were not Formula 1

 

typo edit

Edited by Sharman, 14 December 2013 - 21:20.

[john aston]

And whilst we now know more about the circumstances of the British 87 Grand Prix the fact is that , as somebody who was in the Stowe grandstand on the day , it was one of the most viscerally exciting races I have ever seen with a massive collective roar from the crowd when the deed was done. Easy to be sniffy about it now but I won't forget it. And I don't even like Mansell.

 

But yes - lists, schlists- who cares? 

[ensign14]

Slightly disappointing offering from Motor Sport I thought, having flicked through it in WHS and not worth the money for a hardened enthusiast. I've put it down to them trying to expand their market for Christmas, but its a bit, er..Haymarket.

 

Motor Sport magazine itself has been excellent since the new regime have found their feet though and has been well worth the sub

 

It won't be aimed at the 47 hardened enthusiasts though - more at the present-buying public who know someone who occasionally glances at a Grand Prix.  I've not seen it yet, but if it adds to the education of casual watchers, more power to it.  I hope it goes pre-war - the 1914 Grand Prix should be worthy of a top 10 place, and the 1933 Monaco race sounds as if it ought to be top of the list.

[nicanary]

Slightly disappointing offering from Motor Sport I thought, having flicked through it in WHS and not worth the money for a hardened enthusiast. I've put it down to them trying to expand their market for Christmas, but its a bit, er..Haymarket.

 

Motor Sport magazine itself has been excellent since the new regime have found their feet though and has been well worth the sub

Not the latest issue IMHO. Page after page of bland nothingness concentrating on present-day EffWun. I read the whole thing in about 20 minutes. Seriously considering the future of my subscription. Are DCN and Simon Taylor alone worth £11 a quarter? Nothing else of substance in it.

[arttidesco]

... but if I remember well they put in the first place the 1986 Australian GP.

 

While I hope the publication in question sold well why choose a tyre mileage race ?

 

We obviously are going to struggle with a definition for the word "Great"

[kayemod]

While I hope the publication in question sold well why choose a tyre mileage race ?

 

We obviously are going to struggle with a definition for the word "Great"

 

As Mansell featured prominently, maybe they really meant 'grate'.

[Collombin]

While I hope the publication in question sold well why choose a tyre mileage race ?

Indeed. It had the potential to be one of the greatest races ever, but the Piquet pitstop put paid to that.

[Michael Ferner]

And whilst we now know more about the circumstances of the British 87 Grand Prix the fact is that , as somebody who was in the Stowe grandstand on the day , it was one of the most viscerally exciting races I have ever seen with a massive collective roar from the crowd when the deed was done. Easy to be sniffy about it now but I won't forget it. And I don't even like Mansell.

 

But yes - lists, schlists- who cares? 

 

Couldn't agree more. Nobody in his right mind could possibly accuse me of being a Mansell fan, but that race was very exiting to watch on the telly, and so memorable that I was able to explain exactly what was going to happen at Stowe (and a few seconds later at Woodcote!) to a startled companion when rewatching the race twenty years later. Great? Maybe not, but certainly enjoyable.

[BRG]

Not the latest issue IMHO. Page after page of bland nothingness concentrating on present-day EffWun. I read the whole thing in about 20 minutes. 

Are you sure you were reading Motor Sport?  My latest issue is mostly about sports cars.  It has an Audi on the front cover, interviews with Ron Tauranac & Gil de Ferran & Alec Poole, some stuff about Allan McNish and less than usual about current F1.  Maybe you were reading Heat or Zoo or something?

[Damien Smith]

Dear all,

 

The purpose of this magazine was indeed an attempt to engage with a  wider readership and perhaps introduce magazine buyers to Motor Sport who hadn't previously picked up the regular monthly issues. Think of it as a Christmas stocking filler. It was never really aimed at the knowledgable regulars on this forum and I'm only surprised it's taken this long for scorn to be poured.

 

As I wrote in my intro, there's no such thing as a definitive list. We spent weeks trying to come up with one we were all happy with, but could never fully agree. In the end, I had to make the final call. But does it really matter? Not really. It was supposed to be just a bit of fun and create a bit of (good natured) debate.

 

Anyway, most of you will be delighted to know it hasn't been particularly successful and we're likely to lose money on it. We put an awful lot of work into it, so that hurts, but I must say I enjoyed putting it all together. It's a shame it didn't work out better, but I'm sure the majority of you will be delighted to hear we probably won't be able to do anything like it again. This is a business with huge overheads and two main revenue streams, one of which has been hard hit in 2013. We have to try things to improve a difficult situation.

 

This year has been the toughest I've known in publishing and Motor Sport is fortunate that its owner remains committed to the magazine's survival. Without him, the 20-odd staff who work on editorial, advertising, subscriptions, publishing and accounts would probably be out of work. 2014 marks MS's 90th anniversary year. I do hope we're around to make the ton.

 

As for watch adverts, it's a shame they cause such offence. But without advertising, the magazine wouldn't exist. It just so happens that the luxury watch market thinks MS is worthy as a platform to spread its message. I won't apologise for that. And no, I don't own one of the watches and I've never been offered one.

 

Motor Sport isn't what it used to be, I'll admit. Because it can't be. My team and I are giving our all in our attempts to give the magazine a future. To those of you who continue to support us, I'd like to say thank you. Of course, we listen to criticism and do our best to respond. Your thoughts are appreciated and if you'd ever like to speak to me in person rather than from behind a keyboard, I'd be happy to meet you at Autosport International, Race Retro, Goodwood FoS, etc. 

 

To the rest of you, enjoy your wine.

 

Happy Christmas to all.

 

Damien

[nicanary]

Are you sure you were reading Motor Sport?  My latest issue is mostly about sports cars.  It has an Audi on the front cover, interviews with Ron Tauranac & Gil de Ferran & Alec Poole, some stuff about Allan McNish and less than usual about current F1.  Maybe you were reading Heat or Zoo or something?

Those are mags I normally pick up in laybys! I usually read the opening "matters of moment", but that is followed by road tests of cars I'm not interested in , Nigel Roebuck (always a good read), then the never-ending McNish thing, which was tedious, and did not retain my attention, then some guff about Hamilton (I skipped) , then Ricciardo (I skipped), OK Tauranac was a good read, de Ferran midly interesting (I'm not into US racing), Alec Poole was good, and then we're at the back end. Too much "modern" content for me. Damien Smith admits in his excellent post that they're trying to widen the buying demographic, which is fair enough, and if it "saves" the future of the title then that must be a good thing. But it just doesn't interest me.

 

BTW I'm guilty of going way off-thread here, so apologies to the OP and all readers.

[kayemod]

To the rest of you, enjoy your wine.

 

Happy Christmas to all.

 

Damien

 

 

Since I started this thread, and was also the one who suggested a Merlot alternative, thanks very much Damien for your good humoured and thoughtful response.

 

Like many of us, I wasn't attracted by the concept of the publication, but might have bought a copy if only I'd seen it. Seems to me that disappointing sales were largely a result of restricted availability, although I wasn't exactly searching diligently, I never saw a copy on sale anywhere at all.

 

On the latest Motor Sport, like nicanary, I found much of the content of little interest, though that's just a reflection of personal interest, I have zero interest in Andrew Frankel's writing style on road cars, Lewis Hamilton's thoughts, or sports car racing in it's current form and its participants, but it doesn't bother me to put up with that kind of thing in order to get most of the rest.

 

I can't see me giving up on the magazine any time soon, so thanks Damien for your efforts, and have a good Christmas yourself.

[john aston]

I think that one issue is that it can be difficult to acknowledge that it is oneself that changes , as much , or more so,  than one's magazine of choice. Few, if any, on here would admit to skipping DSJ's stuff in period because it was all about the (then ) modern stuff and not about the French GP  1906 , Brooklands or whatever . I enjoy Motor Sport as much now as I did then and the fact that Nigel Roebuck has 4or 5 pages of modern GP analysis is fine by me- having given up the weekly fanzines I get a lot out of reading this material. The Lunches With are superb and whilst the US scene doesn't really grip me I do read 95% of the magazine . Long may it continue.

 

And having already written to Damien to applaud him for having the cojones to say in print what most of us think about Mr Ecclestone's iron grip on the near parody that current F1 comprises (and of course I still follow it - it's a lifetime addiction)  I am happy to repeat the compliment here.

[D-Type]

I'm sorry to read it's not been too successful.  As Kayemod says it's not been that easy to find. I wanted to have a look before putting it on my Christmas list. It wasn't until the third branch of WH Smith that I found one.  They don't seem to be able to make up their minds where to display it and asking an assistant only got a blank stare.  Perhaps you should have given it a Motor Sport green cover and billed it as a special edition, special supplement, Christmas special or something.

[Allan Lupton]

I think that one issue is that it can be difficult to acknowledge that it is oneself that changes , as much , or more so,  than one's magazine of choice. Few, if any, on here would admit to skipping DSJ's stuff in period because it was all about the (then ) modern stuff and not about the French GP  1906 , Brooklands or whatever .

Yes and no, in that what I wanted from the magazine in period might still be the same, but it isn't offered.

I took MS as a magazine of record which kept me informed about motor sport as all levels, not just the Grands Prix, and gave some coverage to current road cars, particularly the sporting ones. There was a bit of historical stuff as well, but that was a bonus, not the main point of either the mag. or my buying it.

Because it was that sort of mag, I kept it and eventually had the copies bound and the 42 volumes (1950-91) are still a useful research resource. Will anyone be able to say that of any current mag, not just MS?

[john aston]

No- but who needs a magazine for records now ? If I want to know Simon Hadfield's lap time for the second lap at his second race at Silverstone Classic 2013 (for example )  I can do that in three mouse clicks.The whole scene has changed so much now anyway- no F3 . no F2 (worthy of the name ) , saloons now a daft spec formula and rallying a joke.  

[arttidesco]

The whole scene has changed

 

Not only has the scene changed but both motorsport and publishing are in a 'continuous' state of flux.

[Allan Lupton]

No- but who needs a magazine for records now ? If I want to know Simon Hadfield's lap time for the second lap at his second race at Silverstone Classic 2013 (for example )  I can do that in three mouse clicks.

Yes but will you (or anyone) be able to do that in 50 years?

At least printed paper is still as readable as it ever was, whereas changing computer systems often leave one unable to read ones own work of 20-30 years ago, never mind ephemeral things such as internet sites.

[opplock]

I have been reading Motorsport since the late 1960s, in those days buying the occasional year old (at least) copies at school gala days and second hand shops. I can still quote from DSJ's report on the 1968 Monaco GP having read that magazine cover to cover at least 20 times. The content now is very different and some of it is of little interest to me. I always find however a number of fascinating and thought provoking articles.

 

Having started to read the January 2014 edition I must congratulate Damien Smith on the Motorsport Says feature. This would surely meet with the approval of WB and DSJ.  

 

I have not seen the '100 Greatest Grands Prix' publication but if it encourages some of those unaware that motor racing existed pre Senna to take an interest in the sport's history it will have served a useful purpose.       

[ensign14]

Had a look for it in the big Smiths in Brum.  Not a sniff.  I'd have a word with the distributors.  Maybe they're all in a railway siding.

[Reynard88D]

Have to support Damien and MS, really enjoyed the 100 greatest, shame it's not worked financially. Interesting, yet worrying to hear how MS is struggling, it's a quality publication and I think all of us would hate for it to die off.

[P0wderf1nger]

Dear all,

 

The purpose of this magazine was indeed an attempt to engage with a  wider readership and perhaps introduce magazine buyers to Motor Sport who hadn't previously picked up the regular monthly issues. Think of it as a Christmas stocking filler. It was never really aimed at the knowledgable regulars on this forum and I'm only surprised it's taken this long for scorn to be poured.

 

As I wrote in my intro, there's no such thing as a definitive list. We spent weeks trying to come up with one we were all happy with, but could never fully agree. In the end, I had to make the final call. But does it really matter? Not really. It was supposed to be just a bit of fun and create a bit of (good natured) debate.

 

Anyway, most of you will be delighted to know it hasn't been particularly successful and we're likely to lose money on it. We put an awful lot of work into it, so that hurts, but I must say I enjoyed putting it all together. It's a shame it didn't work out better, but I'm sure the majority of you will be delighted to hear we probably won't be able to do anything like it again. This is a business with huge overheads and two main revenue streams, one of which has been hard hit in 2013. We have to try things to improve a difficult situation.

 

This year has been the toughest I've known in publishing and Motor Sport is fortunate that its owner remains committed to the magazine's survival. Without him, the 20-odd staff who work on editorial, advertising, subscriptions, publishing and accounts would probably be out of work. 2014 marks MS's 90th anniversary year. I do hope we're around to make the ton.

 

As for watch adverts, it's a shame they cause such offence. But without advertising, the magazine wouldn't exist. It just so happens that the luxury watch market thinks MS is worthy as a platform to spread its message. I won't apologise for that. And no, I don't own one of the watches and I've never been offered one.

 

Motor Sport isn't what it used to be, I'll admit. Because it can't be. My team and I are giving our all in our attempts to give the magazine a future. To those of you who continue to support us, I'd like to say thank you. Of course, we listen to criticism and do our best to respond. Your thoughts are appreciated and if you'd ever like to speak to me in person rather than from behind a keyboard, I'd be happy to meet you at Autosport International, Race Retro, Goodwood FoS, etc. 

 

To the rest of you, enjoy your wine.

 

Happy Christmas to all.

 

Damien

All power to you, Damien, and best wishes to you and your team for 2014.

 

Just a thought to those who resent the watch ads. A point made by Grayson Perry in the first of his Radio 4 Reith Lectures was that, just as you wouldn't expect to enjoy every item on a restaurant menu, so you shouldn't expect to enjoy every painting in a gallery. 

 

Similarly, why should we expect to enjoy or 'approve' of every Motor Sport ad? If you don't like a page, turn it over. At least the ad is contributing to the availability of the pages you do like.