386 replies to this topic

[maverick69]

So. Where's Martin? Any news?

Took a lot of crap on here - but it seems he has been erased.

Just asking in case anyone knows.

[SophieB]

Technically still team principal, according to the team website. Although curiously that's not part of the senior management according to the same site.

[jstrains]

Maybe he went fishing... that is the universal answer in similar cases

[Tapz63]

Who was he?

[study]

I think he's locked in the tower

[maverick69]

I think he's locked in the tower

With Andy Latham

[senna da silva]

Who was he?

 

The guy who put together the 2014 effort for McLaren. 

[Seanspeed]

I'll feel quite bad for him if McLaren have built a WDC-contending car this year, seeing as how he was in charge during its inception and development, yet he'll get none of the credit for it.

[Tapz63]

I'll feel quite bad for him if McLaren have built a WDC-contending car this year, seeing as how he was in charge during its inception and development, yet he'll get none of the credit for it.

But people are already giving him credit for it.

[Seanspeed]

But people are already giving him credit for it.

Not many.

And I'm talking more as the season progresses and into the future in general.

[RoutariEnjinu]

It's weird that nothing has been said officially AND that he's not been sighted or heard from at all.

If he's out of McLaren, why would he be hiding. If he's not, why hasn't something been announced.

Maybe Ron didn't want to give up the team when he did, and never really had Martin in mind to take over his role. Maybe Ron's been disappointed with the recent performance of Martin, and saw the Mercedes shakeup and making redundant the team principal position as a way to get Martin out, while keeping him in McLaren.

Martin's been McLaren for a long time, and seemingly successful and liked by Ron to have been in a senior position for so long. Maybe by making the team principal position itself go away, they get to remove Martin's control of the F1 team, while keeping him McLaren.

Maybe he's off to exciting new projects in McLaren, and maybe he'll be good there. Martin seems like a great guy, and very intelligent. Just not ruthless or attentive enough to be team principal of a sports team.

He never seemed disappointed with a poor performance to me. He was slow to react to the slow and unreliable pitstops, where Ferrari were quick to see what Red Bull were doing.

I remember Stefano seeming as friendly and likeable as Martin, in the 'new' era of F1. Yet Stefano always had a face like a slapped arsed when his team did bad. Maybe that's because he cared more, or because he had people breathing down his neck. Martin didn't have Ron breathing down his neck as Ron was out of the picture for the last few seasons. Until now.

[study]

if he is getting credit for this present seeming success then he also has to shoulder the blame for the previous seasons failures

 

[Lazy]

I'll feel quite bad for him if McLaren have built a WDC-contending car this year, seeing as how he was in charge during its inception and development, yet he'll get none of the credit for it.

Yup, badly stitched up imo, more to this story than meets the eye.

 

He's at his holiday home on the Ile De Re apparently.

[JRizzle86]

Nothing like another Martin Whitmarsh thread to pass the time

[UPRC]

It's weird that nothing has been said officially AND that he's not been sighted or heard from at all.

 

I've pondered that as well! Ron doesn't have mafia connections by chance... does he?

[Burtros]

McLaren built a quick car in 2012 and were left with nothing to show for it. Theres more to this sport than building a fast car.

 

And if he gets any credit for a good car in 2014 - he then also has responsibility for 2013 being the worst McLaren season in 33 years, and 2012's non stop cock ups.

 

It s a tough world out there and I'm sure Whitmarsh is a nice guy, but I am glad he is no longer in charge of things at McLaren and my only concern about his whereabouts are that they can be classed as 'nowhere near MTC'

[0Fritz]

It's weird that nothing has been said officially AND that he's not been sighted or heard from at all.

If he's out of McLaren, why would he be hiding. If he's not, why hasn't something been announced.

Maybe Ron didn't want to give up the team when he did, and never really had Martin in mind to take over his role. Maybe Ron's been disappointed with the recent performance of Martin, and saw the Mercedes shakeup and making redundant the team principal position as a way to get Martin out, while keeping him in McLaren.

Martin's been McLaren for a long time, and seemingly successful and liked by Ron to have been in a senior position for so long. Maybe by making the team principal position itself go away, they get to remove Martin's control of the F1 team, while keeping him McLaren.

Maybe he's off to exciting new projects in McLaren, and maybe he'll be good there. Martin seems like a great guy, and very intelligent. Just not ruthless or attentive enough to be team principal of a sports team.

He never seemed disappointed with a poor performance to me. He was slow to react to the slow and unreliable pitstops, where Ferrari were quick to see what Red Bull were doing.

I remember Stefano seeming as friendly and likeable as Martin, in the 'new' era of F1. Yet Stefano always had a face like a slapped arsed when his team did bad. Maybe that's because he cared more, or because he had people breathing down his neck. Martin didn't have Ron breathing down his neck as Ron was out of the picture for the last few seasons. Until now.

 

Stefano "Felipe, Fernando is faster than you" Domenicali? Stefano "we need to stay calm" Domenicali? That 2010 pit stop error was worse than anything Whitmarsh has ever done. Without Alonso, i bet Domenicali would be sleeping with the fishes right now. 

 

Alonso, probably with Vettel the current very top in F1 driver material. Alonso, the guy who Whitmarsh was rumoured to be close in luring back to McLaren... All the best to Ron Dennis, finishing that job.

[JRizzle86]

I heard he was last seen in Stevenage...

[stewie]

Pop round his house, and see how his garden is looking. If it's good, then he's obviously had time on his hands...

[kosmos]

In a beach enjoying his big pile of money

[JRizzle86]

In a beach enjoying his big pile of money 

Is he buried in the sand?

[Buttoneer]

He's in a witness protection program in Germany in advance of testifying against Bernie in that bribery case. He's a star witness and knows where all Bernie's bodies are hidden after a ten year relationship they managed to hide from the media, meeting only in deserted courtrooms in Paris.*



*Warning: may contain bullshit.

[Longtimefan]

I heard he's locked in Ron's car boot.

[Tapz63]

He's in a witness protection program in Germany in advance of testifying against Bernie in that bribery case. He's a star witness and knows where all Bernie's bodies are hidden after a ten year relationship they managed to hide from the media, meeting only in deserted courtrooms in Paris.*



*Warning: may contain bullshit.

Source?

[Buttoneer]

Ketchup.

[SophieB]

That's all nonsense; I heard his head now adorns a spike in Woking.

An enigmatic sign below reads "This cranium functions as an appropriate and dynamic symbol to discourage further unsuitable alternative leadership formulations."

[string158]

maybe he's in charge of Honda integration for 2015....

[Ross Stonefeld]

He's working in a photocopying shop in Woking.

[Afterburner]

That's all nonsense; I heard his head now adorns a spike in Woking.

An enigmatic sign below reads "This cranium functions as an appropriate and dynamic symbol to discourage further unsuitable alternative leadership formulations."

... that spike being the one now resting just outside the newly-empty team principal's office, no doubt, as a warning to all those aspiring to fill the post (no pun intended).

[Rocket73]

I thought it strange for a while now that there has been no announcement to what is being done with him. and why are they waiting so long to announce who is taking the last senior position under Ron?

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if it's going to be MW and that he has just taken a deserved sabbatical over the winter.

 

Ron > Martin > Eric...makes sense to me. 

[study]

I thought it strange for a while now that there has been no announcement to what is being done with him. and why are they waiting so long to announce who is taking the last senior position under Ron?

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if it's going to be MW and that he has just taken a deserved sabbatical over the winter.

 

Ron > Martin > Eric...makes sense to me. 

 

Na, the disposed never get that, maybe if he'd gracefully stepped back, but when theres a power struggle I can't not see the victor not putting the boot in.

[Rocket73]

Well can you think of a reason why they havn't announced what's happening with him?

[halifaxf1fan]

I heard he's locked in Ron's car boot.

 

With poor Davey Ryan.

[study]

Well can you think of a reason why they havn't announced what's happening with him?

 

Hoping everyone will just forget about him.

 

As mentioned about, "Whitmarsh?", "who?"

[Owen]

The last I heard [seriously] is that he's had some time at his house in France, he's still on the McLaren payroll, he has had contact with Lotus about the TP job (although taking on that role seems unlikely).

FWIW I hope he stays at McLaren in another role but not sure if pride or indeed Ron(!) will allow it. Most people who do know him say he's a pretty decent and likeable guy, so I do hope it works out for him.

[jjcale]

maybe he's in charge of Honda integration for 2015....

 

Hopefully something like this.... He is still a talented guy, even if he bumped hard against the Peter Principle.

[mclarennut]

I'll feel quite bad for him if McLaren have built a WDC-contending car this year, seeing as how he was in charge during its inception and development, yet he'll get none of the credit for it.

 

We was a strong contending in 2012 when MW was in charge but had so many bad calls, pitting, running out of fuel and so on. I for one really liked Martin but if we really do have a title contender then sadly MW had to go.

Edited by mclarennut, 20 February 2014 - 17:06.

[RoutariEnjinu]

Stefano "Felipe, Fernando is faster than you" Domenicali? Stefano "we need to stay calm" Domenicali? That 2010 pit stop error was worse than anything Whitmarsh has ever done. Without Alonso, i bet Domenicali would be sleeping with the fishes right now. 
 
Alonso, probably with Vettel the current very top in F1 driver material. Alonso, the guy who Whitmarsh was rumoured to be close in luring back to McLaren... All the best to Ron Dennis, finishing that job.

You quoted all that text and then replied as if I said Stefano was a good team principal.

I was actually comparing TWO under-performing principals and how they seemed to present themselves to me when things are going wrong. The point being Domenicali always had di Montezemolo breathing down his neck, while Martin didn't with Dennis out of the picture.

As for blunders, something I wasn't even talking about, telling Massa to move over for Alonso seems ruthless rather than impotent. It was with the WDC in mind. I didn't agree with it. The 2010 pitstop blunder while having big consequences, was a single decision that could have gone any way.
Whitmarsh seemed to be the last of the big team principals to see the merit of what Red Bull were doing in pitstops. It was a season long ignorance to something even TV pundits were commenting on. All with the same "we're not panicking yet" attitude.

Race after race in 2012 we'd see another 3 second flawless stop from Red Bull, and another blunder from McLaren, while Ferrari and others were already reacting and getting the times down. You could even say McLaren have had a better car in most of the years overall and under performed. Maybe sacrificing Massa and focussing on Alonso is how Stefano managed to keep in the WDC fight with an inferior car.

You could argue it all ways. But either way, this is a separate argument, not one I made, not on topic, nor one I have much interest in. I think neither of them are a patch on Horner or Brawn or Boullier.

[0Fritz]

You quoted all that text and then replied as if I said Stefano was a good team principal.

I was actually comparing TWO under-performing principals and how they seemed to present themselves to me when things are going wrong. The point being Domenicali always had di Montezemolo breathing down his neck, while Martin didn't with Dennis out of the picture.

As for blunders, something I wasn't even talking about, telling Massa to move over for Alonso seems ruthless rather than impotent. It was with the WDC in mind. I didn't agree with it. The 2010 pitstop blunder while having big consequences, was a single decision that could have gone any way.
Whitmarsh seemed to be the last of the big team principals to see the merit of what Red Bull were doing in pitstops. It was a season long ignorance to something even TV pundits were commenting on. All with the same "we're not panicking yet" attitude.

Race after race in 2012 we'd see another 3 second flawless stop from Red Bull, and another blunder from McLaren, while Ferrari and others were already reacting and getting the times down. You could even say McLaren have had a better car in most of the years overall and under performed. Maybe sacrificing Massa and focussing on Alonso is how Stefano managed to keep in the WDC fight with an inferior car.

You could argue it all ways. But either way, this is a separate argument, not one I made, not on topic, nor one I have much interest in. I think neither of them are a patch on Horner or Brawn or Boullier.

 

Apologies mate, but you implied that the facial expression of Domenicali was to gauge his ability as TP, and that Whitmarsh was slower to react than Domenicali on changes in F1. I found that a bit strange and unfounded, with all due respect. I also think Boullier and Whitmarsh have a lot in common, and both shielded the team from direct criticism, even in the biggest of mistakes. The last Ferrari that could hold a candle to Red Bull over a season, was their 2010 car, whilst McLaren had an equally or faster car than Newey in most of 2012, and catched and overtook that 2011 RB7 beast in the last few races of that season.

 

Would you agree that if the Mp4-29 proves to be all that, Whitmarsh is vindicated?

Edited by 0Fritz, 20 February 2014 - 17:45.

[JRizzle86]

Apologies mate, but you implied that the facial expression of Domenicali was to gauge his ability as TP, and that Whitmarsh was slower to react than Domenicali on changes in F1. I found that a bit strange and unfounded, with all due respect. I also think Boullier and Whitmarsh have a lot in common, and both shielded the team from direct criticism, even in the biggest of mistakes. The last Ferrari that could hold a candle to Red Bull over a season, was their 2010 car, whilst McLaren had an equally or faster car than Newey in most of 2012, and catched and overtook that 2011 RB7 beast in the last few races of that season.

 

Would you agree that if the Mp4-29 proves to be all that, Whitmarsh is vindicated?

No

[RoutariEnjinu]

Would you agree that if the Mp4-29 proves to be all that, Whitmarsh is vindicated?

Not at all as I never blamed Whitmarsh for any of the ambitious but flawed cars McLaren made. I always saw that as being the domain of the technical directors. There has been no reshuffle or shake-up in that department unless you count Pat Fry and Paddy Lowe leaving. Even with Martin believing Paddy would stay for the entire 2013 season.

What made me realise Whitmarsh wasn't really switched on was 2012, and not even 2013. I've said it before but it was just watching pitstop blunder after pitstop blunder for the whole season, while Red Bull had been around 3 seconds all season, and Ferrari and others had stepped up to match it. Yet he still seemed quite content and chirpy in post race interviews, and had some wins that year.
Maybe it was all McLaren professionalism and image.

While other teams were out to poach, McLaren lost two directors and their star driver.
Whitmarsh just seemed too content and satisfied.
He seemed to be happy picking up wins and podiums.

Now he's out and immediately they've pinched a big player from Lotus. Only in the disaster of 2013 do they try and poach some Red Bull stars.
Now he's out we have Magnussen.

So no I wouldn't credit Whitmarsh if the current car turns out to be a challenger. Mainly because I never personally blamed Whitmarsh for any of the technical problems McLaren have had with the vehicle designs. Secondly because they've had strong starts before under Whitmarsh.

It's easy to seem like a great team principal if you have a rocket ship.

I don't credit Horner with making the best car of the last era. But he ran the pitwall excellently, gave Newey what he wanted and was the leader of a team that were the first to start the fast pitstops. The first to practice them so religiously. The only team in 2009 and 2010 that crowded its mechanics around the car from prying eyes.

All these little things are nothing to do with the aero philosophy of the car.

Martin had no such magic. Instead of going back to basics he tried to cling on to old tactics, sometimes costing a missed Q3 or even Q2. He just seems slow to react and rigid. Maybe that's all the power he could have in some inflexible entity like McLaren, I don't know. Maybe that's why McLaren now seem to have done away with the position.

I like Martin. I bet he's a far nicer bloke than most on the paddock, but I haven't been impressed with him as team principal. I hope he finds a role in McLaren or elsewhere that he's excellent at. Maybe even in the race team.

Be honest, if he got a job as team principal of Caterham or Marrusia, do you really think without McLaren resources and structure behind him, he'd have the drive and fight, in the background AND on the pit-wall during a race to turn them around like someone like Brawn or Horner could? He seems too manager and not enough racer like those two to me.

Sporting director maybe. Something political or human.

Edited by RoutariEnjinu, 20 February 2014 - 19:14.

[Peter Perfect]

if he is getting credit for this present seeming success then he also has to shoulder the blame for the previous seasons failures

 

 

If Paddy Lowe gets a free pass for the MP4-28 I don't see why MW shouldn't get one too.

 

maybe he's in charge of Honda integration for 2015....

 

That's an interesting thought, and I think he'd be well qualified for it. However the radio silence from McLaren about him makes me think he may be departing.

[swerved]

if he is getting credit for this present seeming success then he also has to shoulder the blame for the previous seasons failures

 

 

Woah King.

[Imateria]

Weren't McLaren the first team to post a sub 3 second pit stop at Valencia and the first sub 2.5 second pit stop at Hockenheim in 2012 and were a match for Red Bull in the pits at every race from there on? Admittedly they seemed to be a bit behind Red Bull last year but those stops weren't exactly slow.

[garagetinkerer]

Who was he?

Luke, he's your father, Darth!  

 

 

(no offence, just thought it to be funny... apologies, if you feel bad mate)

[garagetinkerer]

No

Biased much?

[Tenmantaylor]

Have to reflect the sentiment that even if McLaren win both titles this year with a car designed under MW it almost won't make up for last year's shocker or the year before when they had the car and drivers but were operationally inept.

Weren't McLaren the first team to post a sub 3 second pit stop at Valencia and the first sub 2.5 second pit stop at Hockenheim in 2012 and were a match for Red Bull in the pits at every race from there on? Admittedly they seemed to be a bit behind Red Bull last year but those stops weren't exactly slow.

Better 4s pitstops all season than 1 botched stop interspersed with WR stops. Yes, MW oversaw many quick pitstops but also many more botched ones than I remember in my 20 year viewing.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 20 February 2014 - 20:25.

[garagetinkerer]

Have to reflect the sentiment that even if McLaren win both titles this year with a car designed under MW it almost won't make up for last year's shocker or the year before when they had the car and drivers but were operationally inept.


Better 4s pitstops all season than 1 botched stop interspersed with WR stops. Yes, MW oversaw many quick pitstops but also many more botched ones than I remember in my 20 year viewing.

You're not trying very hard to remember then. How many times Schumacher pipped Maccas while they were pitting? Oh, by the by, it was Dennis then who was still running the show. So off with his head too?

[senna da silva]

Have to reflect the sentiment that even if McLaren win both titles this year with a car designed under MW it almost won't make up for last year's shocker or the year before when they had the car and drivers but were operationally inept.

 

 

Completely agree. I may never forgive McLaren for the 2012 season, they threw it away.

[Absulute]

He's working at Mooby's,