Jump to content


Photo

Detroit


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 Bob Riebe

Bob Riebe
  • Member

  • 2,292 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 27 February 2014 - 17:59

This from Mac's Garage is interesting to me.

 

I was in Detroit repeatedly in the nineties but now it has been 20 years since I was last there, spent some time once in Greek Town.

 

From web pictures my brother sent me, if I went back to areas I was in it would probably be a very sad when I finally get back.

 

http://www.macsmotor...rks/#more-35148



Advertisement

#2 Antonov

Antonov
  • Member

  • 603 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 February 2014 - 18:26

interesting stuff! thanks for sharing. 

 

do you have pics of downtown Detroit, where the GP used to take place?  



#3 HaydenFan

HaydenFan
  • Member

  • 2,319 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 27 February 2014 - 20:14

It's getting better. The old isn't being really restored, but it's great to see the city turn around. 



#4 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,930 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 27 February 2014 - 21:29

It was a sorry moment for me when I had to keep going west from Toledo during my trip across there in 2012...

 

Seeing what Detroit was really like, partially deserted and all, was going to be one of the highlights of our trip, but we simply ran short of time with a lot of stops getting from Cleveland to Toledo and I had arrangements to keep.

 

But this year I'll definitely be there. I will be in Detroit the weekend of June 6-9 before I head further east. Catching up with Bill will be a necessity.



#5 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:19

It was a sorry moment for me when I had to keep going west from Toledo during my trip across there in 2012...

 

Seeing what Detroit was really like, partially deserted and all, was going to be one of the highlights of our trip, but we simply ran short of time with a lot of stops getting from Cleveland to Toledo and I had arrangements to keep.

 

But this year I'll definitely be there. I will be in Detroit the weekend of June 6-9 before I head further east. Catching up with Bill will be a necessity.

Looking forward to it! 



#6 B Squared

B Squared
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:37

It was a sorry moment for me when I had to keep going west from Toledo during my trip across there in 2012...

 

Seeing what Detroit was really like, partially deserted and all, was going to be one of the highlights of our trip, but we simply ran short of time with a lot of stops getting from Cleveland to Toledo and I had arrangements to keep.

 

But this year I'll definitely be there. I will be in Detroit the weekend of June 6-9 before I head further east. Catching up with Bill will be a necessity.

There are still some beautiful homes in the Grosse Pointe Yacht Club area and further north into St. Clair Shores. The Edsel Ford home is a must see if you like the beauty of the old architecture. Before changing careers, I did a lot of custom cabinet remodel work in this area with many fine old homes, giving a taste of what the old Detroit majesty once was. The Yacht Club was the location for the banquet for the Ferrari Club of America's National Meet in 1971 or 1972, that is when I first had exposure to the area as a 13 year old. A good friend goes to fish on Lake St. Clair a few times a year. 

 

http://www.fordhouse.../the-ford-house


Edited by B Squared, 28 February 2014 - 12:46.


#7 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,930 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 February 2014 - 13:40

I'll see what I can see...

 

Bill, I would appreciate you sending me your phone number.



#8 B Squared

B Squared
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 28 February 2014 - 14:02

I'll see what I can see...

Not trying to be a tour guide, just pointing out that there is more to the metropolitan area than a desrted city. I mistakenly thought you may appreciate the few mile detour from the ruin. My apologies.

 

"Seeing what Detroit was really like, partially deserted and all, was going to be one of the highlights of our trip"



#9 RA Historian

RA Historian
  • Member

  • 3,741 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 28 February 2014 - 15:33

I have been to the Indy Car double header on Belle Isle. A good race weekend, but be careful where you stay overnight. I went about 20 miles north along the river to stay in St. Clair Shores. You do not want to stay in the city.

 

As far as the race circuit is concerned, general admission is a waste of time. One can see absolutely nothing but the tops of the helmets and roll bars as the cars go by between the concrete barriers. It is practically mandatory to have to buy a ticket for a grandstand, and then you want to be high up in the grand stand. I have had press credentials, but even then wound up watching most of the race with the rest of the press on TV monitors in the press room. Definitely not a spectator friendly course.



#10 Bob Riebe

Bob Riebe
  • Member

  • 2,292 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 28 February 2014 - 18:51

interesting stuff! thanks for sharing. 

 

do you have pics of downtown Detroit, where the GP used to take place?  

Sorry I do not but the best pictures I ever saw of the event were in the old Autoweek&Competition Press of those years.

 

They did a good job of showing what the course looked like and no, I no longer have those issues.

 

I remember the downtown Holiday Inn, only ten bucks a night with police stationed there to make sure it was safe, of course this was when out on Highway 12 you could get an excellent room for 12 bucks a night because so much traffic had pulled away by Interstate 94 the old motels needed something to get people in.

This was also when the KOA near downtown charged 35 bucks a night, which to an old school tent camper like me was highway robbery, so I stayed in the 12 bucks a night motels.

 

Belle Isle is a nice city park but it is moronic to have a race there.


Edited by Bob Riebe, 28 February 2014 - 21:34.


#11 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 28 February 2014 - 21:07

I have been to the Indy Car double header on Belle Isle. A good race weekend, but be careful where you stay overnight. I went about 20 miles north along the river to stay in St. Clair Shores. You do not want to stay in the city.

 

 

 

 

Why not? 



#12 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 28 February 2014 - 21:08

I'll see what I can see...

 

Bill, I would appreciate you sending me your phone number.

 

Sending via PM. 



#13 RA Historian

RA Historian
  • Member

  • 3,741 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 01 March 2014 - 15:15

Why not? 

I have been advised by locals not to do so. I take their advice seriously, because they are there and on the ground.



#14 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 01 March 2014 - 16:08

I have been advised by locals not to do so. I take their advice seriously, because they are there and on the ground.

 

The city of Detroit is 140 square miles, larger than Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan combined. So when you say "in the city," you are covering a lot of ground-- and you are including every conceivable kind of neighborhood from best/richest to worst/poorest in America (or however you would like to characterize them) and everything in between. 

 

I move freely around Detroit in complete safety, simply by using the same common sense precautions one should employ in any large city. 



#15 RA Historian

RA Historian
  • Member

  • 3,741 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 02 March 2014 - 22:16

I can appreciate that. But in my case, I live 400 miles from Detroit and have only been there twice since the 1988 Detroit GP. As such I readily confess to not being familiar with the city, with my knowledge of it shaped by the horror stories which I read in the newspaper. So when I had to go there in 2011 for the Hall of Fame ceremonies, and in 2013 for the Indy Car double header, I contacted friends who live in the area, but not in the city, to ask their advice. They gave it, and I acted on it. Sorry, do not mean to be critical of the locals, which you are, as I am admittedly ignorant of the lay of the land and where to go/where not to go.



#16 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,889 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:44

I have been to the Indy Car double header on Belle Isle. A good race weekend, but be careful where you stay overnight. I went about 20 miles north along the river to stay in St. Clair Shores. You do not want to stay in the city.

 

As far as the race circuit is concerned, general admission is a waste of time. One can see absolutely nothing but the tops of the helmets and roll bars as the cars go by between the concrete barriers. It is practically mandatory to have to buy a ticket for a grandstand, and then you want to be high up in the grand stand. I have had press credentials, but even then wound up watching most of the race with the rest of the press on TV monitors in the press room. Definitely not a spectator friendly course.

We have one of those here in Adelaide! I stay home and watch it on TV.



#17 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,889 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:46

Macs articles about Detroit here is an appetiser to go visit. All the good and bad seems to make it an interesting place to visit.

Though maybe he is a member of the local progress association drumming up some business for the city!

He has done a damn good job on here over the last few years.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 March 2014 - 01:47.


#18 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:56

Macs articles about Detroit here is an appetiser to go visit. All the good and bad seems to make it an interesting place to visit.

Though maybe he is a member of the local progress association drumming up some business for the city!

He has done a damn good job on here over the last few years.

 

 

I am a local booster, it's true. 



#19 Patrick Morgan

Patrick Morgan
  • Member

  • 253 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 04 March 2014 - 13:27

I lived in the Detroit area on and off in the late 1990's early 2000's - Ilmor's office at that time was a windowless affair buried in Detrot Diesel in Redford. A bit sole destroying in winter when you literally don't see the sun for 5 days at a time - windows do a lot for the soul.

 

It's a very atmospheric place and I've a lot of affection for it. It's not the safest place on earth, if I was going for a night out (seems like a long time ago now) I used to hop across the river to Windsor which is a great place. And the roads aren't all calved up. 

 

Eventually I settled in Plymouth which is way out on the west of the city. A really nice old town. Miss it every day. 



Advertisement

#20 Patrick Morgan

Patrick Morgan
  • Member

  • 253 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 04 March 2014 - 13:29

Oh, and the Henry Ford museum is pretty amazing. The village (Greenfield I think it's called???), well, it's a bit weird but still interesting.



#21 Slurp1955

Slurp1955
  • Member

  • 449 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 04 March 2014 - 14:33

I spent a brief period in Detroit in the late '70s, and arriving at the Greyhound Station at 3 in the morning had a definite edge to it, but I guess that's true in most cities. My fascination with Motor City [like Manchester where I live now] is its enduring legacy of music. Motown apart, which I don't follow, there's been dozens of great artists and bands over the decades, The Stooges, MC5, Amboy Dukes, Funkadelic, Was (Not Was), White Stripes, Mitch Ryder, Bob Seger et al. I could go on but it's a bit O/T. I loved the place, JohnP

Edited by Slurp1955, 04 March 2014 - 14:38.


#22 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 4,783 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 04 March 2014 - 16:12

Good to see Mitch Ryder mentioned on TNF... :up: :up:

#23 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 04 March 2014 - 18:03

I spent a brief period in Detroit in the late '70s, and arriving at the Greyhound Station at 3 in the morning had a definite edge to it, but I guess that's true in most cities. My fascination with Motor City [like Manchester where I live now] is its enduring legacy of music. Motown apart, which I don't follow, there's been dozens of great artists and bands over the decades, The Stooges, MC5, Amboy Dukes, Funkadelic, Was (Not Was), White Stripes, Mitch Ryder, Bob Seger et al. I could go on but it's a bit O/T. I loved the place, JohnP

 

Now you're talking. All those and more, including some unbelievably great artists nobody ever heard of. They could have been huge but for whatever reasons they never broke out.  

 

Just to name two: Sixto Rodriguez and Nolan Strong and the Diablos. Look them up on YouTube -- be prepared to lose an afternoon. . 



#24 Slurp1955

Slurp1955
  • Member

  • 449 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 04 March 2014 - 18:18

Now you're talking. All those and more, including some unbelievably great artists nobody ever heard of. They could have been huge but for whatever reasons they never broke out.  
 
Just to name two: Sixto Rodriguez and Nolan Strong and the Diablos. Look them up on YouTube -- be prepared to lose an afternoon. .

Thank you Magoo, and mention of YouTube prompts this link, which is from Tartar Field at Michigan State Uni in Detroit, the best live clip on the net !!
- JohnP

#25 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 04 March 2014 - 22:41

It's difficult to adequately describe the impact of the MC5 when they arrived on the scene. They played twice as loud, twice as fast, and twice as hard as anything anyone had ever heard. Audiences stood there with their jaws agape. 

 

Hauling this back on topic... most of the musical performers around Detroit worked in the auto plants at some point, as It was a source of ready cash. Berry Gordy, founder of Motown Records, worked at the Ford Dearborn Assembly Plant, and he often credits the job with giving him start in the music business. He says he hated the job so much that it drove him to go find something else. 



#26 Rob G

Rob G
  • Member

  • 11,270 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:27

Oh, and the Henry Ford museum is pretty amazing. The village (Greenfield I think it's called???), well, it's a bit weird but still interesting.


I've been there once, on Labor Day weekend, and it was fantastic, because they had nearly the entire village filled with hundreds upon hundreds of antique cars. I nearly squealed with glee. I was very lucky that I happened to be up there on that particular weekend.

#27 Slurp1955

Slurp1955
  • Member

  • 449 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:59

Motor City Garage is a fine site Magoo, not least because of the splendid contributions from Tony Matthews. Sinkholes seem to be this year's thing, as if the planet has finally had enough and is trying to wash us away. The UK has just had its wettest winter since 1766. Sixto Rodriguez I knew nothing of until the brilliant documentary "Searching For Sugar Man" arrived here last year, and he's in England next week, not here in Rainy City though - JohnP

#28 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:45

I've been there once, on Labor Day weekend, and it was fantastic, because they had nearly the entire village filled with hundreds upon hundreds of antique cars. I nearly squealed with glee. I was very lucky that I happened to be up there on that particular weekend.

 

I love those shows. If there is a better place to hold an old car gathering, I've yet to see it. Beyond the year-round happenings (Model T drives, etc) there are two annual old car shows at Greenfield Village. 

 

The Old Car Festival, held each Labor Day weekend, is open to 1932 and earlier cars. Here's a feature on the 2013 edition:

 

http://www.macsmotor...-festival-2013/

 

 

And on Father's Day weekend, there's the Motor Muster, open to 1932-1976 vehicles. The most recent show:

 

 

http://www.macsmotor...or-muster-2013/



#29 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 07 March 2014 - 03:20



interesting stuff! thanks for sharing. 

 

do you have pics of downtown Detroit, where the GP used to take place?  

 

Niki's, the pizza restaurant featured in this story as in 1901 the building was the home of the original Dodge Bros. machine shop, was just one block off Turn 7 on the original downtown F1 course. 

 

http://www.macsmotor...-man-of-motors/

 

 

Also, the first car in the city of Detroit, built by Charles B. King, took its first drive on March 7, 1896. Its route was south on St. Antoine St, then west on Jefferson, and then right (north) on Woodward, At that point the car was on the future F1 course, the leg that connects Turns 9 and 10, past the big statue called the Spirit of Detroit--the one that has served as the backdrop for so many Detroit GP race photos. So in other words, the F1 cars ran on the very same street and place as the first motor car in Detroit -- but going in the opposite direction. 

 

here is a story about that car, its first run, and its young mechanic, Oliver Barthel. 

 

http://www.macsmotor...el-man-of-motor

 

 

the familiar Spirit of Detroit 

 

q8pa2.jpg


Edited by Magoo, 07 March 2014 - 03:25.


#30 Slurp1955

Slurp1955
  • Member

  • 449 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:50

the familiar Spirit of Detroit 
 
q8pa2.jpg

Ah yes, John Watson winning in 1982. What a sad, strange season that was, and but for a bit of form in Europe John may well have won the Championship that year. Strangely, on a musical note, I ended up sitting next to him at a Steely Dan gig some years later. I guess we both ticked the boxes for their demographic, middle-aged men who don't take their women to Dan concerts, JohnP

Edited by Slurp1955, 07 March 2014 - 11:04.


#31 tcsparky

tcsparky
  • New Member

  • 17 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 07 March 2014 - 19:39

Growing up in Detroit during the time of the MC5, the Rationals, the Frost...etc was an exciting time. One of the negatives that occured was the damage done by partys of young people in the Gar Wood mansion.



#32 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 10 March 2014 - 16:48

Growing up in Detroit during the time of the MC5, the Rationals, the Frost...etc was an exciting time. One of the negatives that occured was the damage done by partys of young people in the Gar Wood mansion.

 

East side, bored rich kids. 



#33 tcsparky

tcsparky
  • New Member

  • 17 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 10 March 2014 - 18:56

A little more info on Mr. Wood:

In 1916, Wood purchased a motorboat for racing called Miss Detroit. Wood set a new world record speed for a boat, (74.870 mph) in 1920 on the Detroit River, using a new boat called Miss America. In the following twelve years, Wood built nine more Miss Americas and broke the record five times, raising it to 124.860 mph (200.9 kmp) in 1932 on the St. Clair River.

As well as being a record breaker and showman, Wood won five straight powerboat gold cup races between 1917 and 1921. Wood also won the prestigious Harmsworth Trophy nine times (1920–21, 1926, 1928–30, 1932–33).

In 1931, he lost the Trophy in dramatic circumstances to his younger brother George. The race was held on the Detroit River and was billed as a match race between the Wood brothers and English racing driver and record-breaker Kaye Don, driving Miss England II. Before an estimated crowd of over a million spectators (one of the largest crowds for a sporting event ever), Don won the first heat of the race. In the second heat, Wood was leading Don, when Miss England II suddenly flipped over rounding one of the turns, fortunately without injury to Don and his co-driver. Gar Wood finished the race first, but both he and Don were disqualified because they had jumped the starter's gun by seven seconds. George Wood completed the final race to win the trophy.



#34 Bob Riebe

Bob Riebe
  • Member

  • 2,292 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 10 March 2014 - 21:10

What happened to the Rooster Tail establishment?



#35 tcsparky

tcsparky
  • New Member

  • 17 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 10 March 2014 - 21:48

The RoosterTail is still there. Lot's of weddings get booked there.   


Edited by tcsparky, 10 March 2014 - 21:55.


#36 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:53

A little more info on Mr. Wood:

In 1916, Wood purchased a motorboat for racing called Miss Detroit. Wood set a new world record speed for a boat, (74.870 mph) in 1920 on the Detroit River, using a new boat called Miss America. In the following twelve years, Wood built nine more Miss Americas and broke the record five times, raising it to 124.860 mph (200.9 kmp) in 1932 on the St. Clair River.

As well as being a record breaker and showman, Wood won five straight powerboat gold cup races between 1917 and 1921. Wood also won the prestigious Harmsworth Trophy nine times (1920–21, 1926, 1928–30, 1932–33).

In 1931, he lost the Trophy in dramatic circumstances to his younger brother George. The race was held on the Detroit River and was billed as a match race between the Wood brothers and English racing driver and record-breaker Kaye Don, driving Miss England II. Before an estimated crowd of over a million spectators (one of the largest crowds for a sporting event ever), Don won the first heat of the race. In the second heat, Wood was leading Don, when Miss England II suddenly flipped over rounding one of the turns, fortunately without injury to Don and his co-driver. Gar Wood finished the race first, but both he and Don were disqualified because they had jumped the starter's gun by seven seconds. George Wood completed the final race to win the trophy.

 

 

Today we tend to think of Gar Wood as a boating guy, but actually he was quite an inventor and industrialist, and boats were his hobby and sideline. Wood developed all kinds of hydraulic truck bodies and essentially invented the compacting refuse truck. Holder of many patents, he was one of those key Motor City technology and manufacturing people... like Alfred Rzeppa or Ralph Emerson Cross... in fact Wood and Cross were boating buddies. 

 

One of the Gar Wood truck factories was the former Harroun Motor Co (yes, that Ray Harroun) plant on Michigan Ave. in Wayne. In the early 50s there was a young guy there who worked as a grinder, name was Malcolm Little. Most people know him as Malcolm X. 



#37 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:03

There are still some beautiful homes in the Grosse Pointe Yacht Club area and further north into St. Clair Shores. The Edsel Ford home is a must see if you like the beauty of the old architecture. Before changing careers, I did a lot of custom cabinet remodel work in this area with many fine old homes, giving a taste of what the old Detroit majesty once was. The Yacht Club was the location for the banquet for the Ferrari Club of America's National Meet in 1971 or 1972, that is when I first had exposure to the area as a 13 year old. A good friend goes to fish on Lake St. Clair a few times a year. 

 

http://www.fordhouse.../the-ford-house

 

Very cool. I expect you got to see some exceptional homes.

 

The Edsel Ford House is also host to one of the top classic car shows in the country, EyesOn Design, held each Father's Day. Very high-end cars for a good cause. 

 

 

Some coverage of last year's show...

 

 

 

http://www.macsmotor...on-design-2013/

 

 

http://www.macsmotor...on-design-2013/



#38 Bob Riebe

Bob Riebe
  • Member

  • 2,292 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 13 March 2014 - 18:05

The RoosterTail is still there. Lot's of weddings get booked there.   

I remember being there during qualifying for the Gold Cup hydroplane race when a boat coming around the corner came very, very close to the Rooster Tail sea-wall.

We looked down and said, ooooooh that was close.

 

A magazine that  covered such events even said in its race coverage that was probably the closest a boat had come to smacking that wall  as far as they ever remembered.