79 replies to this topic

[mcerqueira]

Peel, Isetta,  etc, microcars I've known for a long time, but this recent auction highlighted a treasure trove of dinky cars I've never seen before!

 

check it out, not sure I'd go with the Berkeley Sports or the Goggomobil for taking the family out...

 

http://www.autoviva...._everyone/13419

[ensign14]

There were a few at the NEC Classic Car show last year.  I'll dig out some pics when I get home.

[arttidesco]

There are some more micro cars on this site, there is a national micro car rally in Yorkshire on Sept 14.

[B Squared]

Along with many pieces of associated memorabilia, from Lot 243 there were many assorted microcars sold by RM in 2013: 

 

http://www.rmauction...m?SaleCode=BW13

[LotusElise]

At least one person rallied a Messerschmitt that I know of.

That would have been an interesting sight.

[Terry Walker]

My favourite, purely on the name, is the Sumitomo Flying Feather.

 

Judging by the photo in Georgano, it consisted of two bicycle frames, a seat between, cloth bodywork, and a microscopic engine, probably 50cc.

[GMACKIE]

At least one person rallied a Messerschmitt that I know of.

That would have been an interesting sight.

The Messerschmitt 'Tiger' was quite a rapid little machine. It had 4 wheels, and [I think] a 500cc engine.

[Allan Lupton]

At least one person rallied a Messerschmitt that I know of.

That would have been an interesting sight.

 

The Messerschmitt 'Tiger' was quite a rapid little machine. It had 4 wheels, and [I think] a 500cc engine.

Yes and Ken Piper won the "Cats' Eyes" Rally in one (mainly as the result of the final driving tests after a clean run) in about 1959.

At a lesser level in the Hatfield Tech. M.C,.Johnnie Wilson had a KR200 which he rallied in the late '50s - he also did driving tests and turned it over exploring the delights of third gear in reverse!

[Derwent Motorsport]

I see to remember Stirling Moss entered a Tiger for a race at Silverstone under the SMART banner. I can't remember who the driver was, I think a German? It non started.

As far as the Berkley was concerned, they were raced and autotested (driving tests in those days) by Ian Mantle who was a caravan dealer who sold Berkley caravans at Biggleswade. Hi did compete with it on one of the Ken Wharton inter nation competitions on BBC in I think the early sixties.

[ensign14]

 

^ Scootacar.  I think the crumple zone is the driver.

 

 

 

 

^ Meadows Frisky

 

 

 

^ Peel Trident

 

 

^ Heinkel

 

 

^ its close relative, the Trojan

 

 

^ Vespa 400 - with the precarious Scootacar in the background.

[BRG]

That Vespa is a proper car, and sitll in regular use judging by the current tax disc.

 

Microcars are still alive and well in France and elsewhere if legislation favours them.  Major marques include AIXAM and of course Ligier.

 

And the mad Renault Twizy is from very much in the same stable, albeit electric rather than motorcycle powered.

[Vitesse2]

Pour yourself a drink and enjoy this collection on Flickr. There's even a Bugatti!

 

https://www.flickr.c...tos/mrscharroo/

[Rob G]

Along with many pieces of associated memorabilia, from Lot 243 there were many assorted microcars sold by RM in 2013: 
 
http://www.rmauction...m?SaleCode=BW13

It's a real shame the Bruce Weiner Microcar Museum was shut down and broken apart. I would have loved to see the collection.

[Bloggsworth]

IIRC, Richard Groombridge raced one of the 4 wheel Berkleys.

[Charlieman]

IIRC, Richard Groombridge raced one of the 4 wheel Berkleys.

Berkley three wheelers are common are common at vintage bike events in sidecar races. The rules are liberal so you could make one go stupidly fast, but it would probably put your "bike" in the same class as a BMW three wheeler rocket.

[RCH]

There were some Berkeleys racing in Italy around 1959. I believe "Johnny" Lurani was involved. One of the drivers was none other than Lorenzo Bandini.

[RJE]

A Berkeley was raced with some success against the Sprites and so on of the day in the Autosport Production Car series in the early 1960s.  It was white with green stripes if I recall correctly and had a hard top.  I cannot recall the driver was it perhaps John Venner-Pack?

[Simon Taylor]

The most prominent Berkeley racer was George Catt, a Berkeley agent from Henlow, Bedfordshire. An ex-RAF Wing Commander and test pilot, he raced his B105 with considerable verve in British events in 1960/61. He was a tall, cheerful man, sprouting incongruously out of his little car, but he drove it very well and very quickly, frequently on three and sometimes on two wheels. Sadly, he crashed at Snetterton in August 1961, and later succumbed to his injuries. 

 

John Venner-Pack I only remember in his Costin-bodied fastback Speedwell Sprite, registered VP 7. I think he remained broadly faithful to BMC, although he later had a Lotus Elite.

Edited by Simon Taylor, 13 April 2014 - 11:44.

[Alan Cox]

There is an interesting softback publication by Frazer Nash historian David Thirlby charting the history of Minimal Motoring beginning in the days of the cyclecar

http://www.amazon.co...s david thirlby

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

FORUM - AUTO has photos of VESPA 400 'S in competition both racing and rallying

[sebastiancooper]

Really nice pictures I have to say

[mcerqueira]

the stuff people know about here is perplexing... :-)

 

Vitesse, what a wonderful collection of oddities, that Rosier Rogue looks like a puppy Ferrari 166 barchetta!

[charles r]

https://www.dropbox..../micro1a[1].jpg

 

A little beauty spotted in London SW3 on Saturday. Apologies, I have given up trying to load the photo via dropbox....

[BRG]

https://www.dropbox..../micro1a[1].jpg

 

A little beauty spotted in London SW3 on Saturday. Apologies, I have given up trying to load the photo via dropbox....

I remember a lad at my school had one of these but was reluctant to use it as the back wheel had a tendency to shear off after 500 miles or so.  I don't know if that was a known general problem or just his particular bugbear.

 

He also had the first  Honda 250 bike we had ever seen.  When he blew away our school's demon speed-king on his injected Bonneville, some of us realised that the future had arrived and that it didn't include British bikes.

Edited by BRG, 15 April 2014 - 16:43.

[Mekola]

The era 1958-62 was the glory days of microcars in Argentina.

Even we have some local brands, as the Joseso or the Dinarg.

[Graham Gauld]

I noted early comment about Ken Piper and the Messerschmitt. This is him during the 1956 Scottish Rally in full flight. Also as you are talking about Microcars how about Jim Clark with Ian Scott Watson's Goggomobil in 1956 We also had Berkeley's racing in Scotland notably by Iain Louden Cox.

 

 thhttp://s67.photobuck...d7fb2.jpg.htmle

 

http://s67.photobuck...0df946.jpg.html

[Graham Gauld]

New to Photobucket so far not impressed but if this works may change my mind

 

 

http://s67.photobuck...0df946.jpg.html

 

http://s67.photobuck...0df946.jpg.html

[Allan Lupton]

[GMACKIE]

A few here :-

 

[Gary Davies]

Well shiver me timbers... only last night I was electronically leafing through the June 1957 edition of Motor Sport (as you do!) and came across this wee gem ripping up the bitumen.

 

 

The event was the BARC Members’ Meeting Goodwood 11 May 1957. I trust I'm not committing a heinous copyright crime here. In case I am, I encourage everyone to spring for the wonderful Motor Sport CD archives. If nothing else, they will serve to tidy up your disgracefully messy study or shed!

 

Interesting entrant. Never knew Rob dabbled in the smaller car!

 

 

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

A Rob Walker entry?  Are you sure, Gary?  So where's the lateral white stripe across the nose?

 

 

Seriously, I love these little bangers and would give a month's pension to bash about town in one for just a day.  Set the locals on their duffs, it would!

Edited by Manfred Cubenoggin, 17 April 2014 - 02:19.

[Gary Davies]

'twas a revelation to me, Manfred. But apparently the Motor Sport caption writer was convinced. 

[2Bob]

a D type at Gnoo Blas with a Berkeley in the background (Paul Samuals Berkeley I assume).

 

 

My road car 1965 or 1966.  I owned it for some 6 months of which it was off the road with blown big end bearing for about 5 months.  I swapped it for a Goggo sedan with an Ariel square four engine (still on topic you see) which went like a pile of sh*t for about 1 mile before over heating but surprising quite a few cars away from the lights.  Eventually given away to a friend because I couldn't see it making the trip from Sydney to Tasmania when I changed jobs.

 

Edited by 2Bob, 17 April 2014 - 04:22.

[Charlieman]

After checking my bank balance, I reckon I can afford almost anything made by Trojan Cars Ltd before 1965. The period 1962 to 1965 is a bit tricky, but I could stretch to an Elva or a Heinkel clone, perhaps not both. 

 

Berkeleys are popular in vintage sidecar racing. I've seen them with traditional Excelsior engines and with a Mini sub frame and engine grafted onto the front end.

[Mekola]

The Vespa 400 was the microcar commercialized in Argentina by none other by the Maestro, Juan Manuel Fangio.

It was one of his business when he was indicted by the military government and had to find new possibilities to finance his life...

Edited by Mekola, 17 April 2014 - 14:41.

[Gary Davies]

I noted early comment about Ken Piper and the Messerschmitt. This is him during the 1956 Scottish Rally in full flight. Also as you are talking about Microcars how about Jim Clark with Ian Scott Watson's Goggomobil in 1956 We also had Berkeley's racing in Scotland notably by Iain Louden Cox.

 

 thhttp://s67.photobuck...d7fb2.jpg.htmle

 

http://s67.photobuck...0df946.jpg.html

Hi Graham, It does work. 

 

Early evidence, I think, of Jim Clark's enormous natural talent. Clearly he's able to operate his mobile phone (out of sight of the rozzers) while cornering that powerful car to within an inch of its life. 

[BRG]

Leafing through this week's 'Classic Car Buyer', I found the centrespread was a period shot from Germany of a Mercedes saloon with two Brutsch Mopetta microcars on the roof rack.  This was a new one on me - anyone had any experience of them?

 

(I love the pipe smoking, backwards-cloth-cap wearing pilot in that picture!)

[GMACKIE]

Surprising no-one has mentioned the Goggomobil Dart, built in Australia by Bill Buckle. One of the best looking, IMHO.

 

Edited by GMACKIE, 17 April 2014 - 23:28.

[Lee Nicolle]

Surprising no-one has mentioned the Goggomobil Dart, built in Australia by Bill Buckle. One of the best looking, IMHO.

 

And the subject of Shannons adds for years and the butt of jokes for far longer.

You have to add the Zeta to the list, especially the sports as they were the same size. The Dart would have to be better!

[ensign14]

Few more from other travels:

 

 

 

^ Leyland Crompton

 

 

^ UDAP

 

 

^ Miniel

 

 

 

^ Peels old and new

 

 

^ City Wheels

[eldougo]

Some Micro cars seen at this years AustraliaDay display in down town Sydney.

 

Edited by eldougo, 06 May 2014 - 05:54.

[alansart]

Isetta:

 

Fuldamobile:

[berkeleybill]

Yes Indeed, 'Wing Commander Ronald George Edmund Catt' was the 'larger than life' manager of 'Mantles Garage', Henlow Camp, Lower Stondon, Bedfordshire. The car he raced was actually a 'demonstrator' Berkeley B95 owned by Mantles and was reputably the first of its type to be registered in March 1959 as WMJ 456. Apparently George got 'sideways on' on a bend at Snetterton left the track and hit a piece of concrete hidden in the grass, this caused the car to overturn. The accident didn't kill him outright, he was recovering well when he had what we now know as 'deep vein thrombosis' which shocked everybody at the time including his boss the late Ian Mantle the source of this information. The car was eventually repaired by Mantles and disposed of a few years after the tragic incident, I am now the present custodian of it and it is undergoing some major restoration work, I hope to be able to show it at selected events later on this year. If anyone knows the exact event at Snetterton In August 1961 I'd appreciate them letting me know. Incidentally a 'Memorial Race' was held for him at Snetterton the following year.

[berkeleybill]

The White Berkeley with the green stripe was a 'works car' driven by Jon Goddard Watts, later raced privately by Ken Sloman, then JJ Williams. The car has been completely restored from a total wreck in recent years and can regularly be seen at classic events such as 'Prescott Classic Hill Climb 'and 'Silverstone Classic'. The Berkeley B105 would easily 'see off' the Austin Healey Sprite 'Frogeye' If you could keep it running as the power to weight ratio of the 'Sprite' couldn't compare.   Jon Goddard Watts is the owner of the 'Bond Formula Junior' single seat racing cars currently being campaigned in that class.

[group7]

I'm not sure if this Bond Bug qualifies as a Microcar ? it certainly is bizarre ! I don't think it is photo shopped. it was supposed to have been made for a motor show.

 

https://www.flickr.c...19690/lightbox/

 

group7 in canada

[Lee Nicolle]

Just looking through this thread again muttering Why. 

I have realised that for the last 30 years plus that Golf Buggies  are far more practical and roadworthy cars. And they are electric too!!!  Farm quads are even better.

Those 3 wheel things are death traps and the 4 wheelers with huge camber change are little better.

Clearly in the day there was no design standards for passenger vehicles. 

Realistically how on earth are 3 wheel Mogs roadworthy in this day and age. And they have far better manners than most of these.

[Charlieman]

Those 3 wheel things are death traps and the 4 wheelers with huge camber change are little better.

Clearly in the day there was no design standards for passenger vehicles. 

Realistically how on earth are 3 wheel Mogs roadworthy in this day and age. And they have far better manners than most of these.

On looping slip roads entering/exiting UK motorways, there's usually a sign (50 mph or so) which can be safely ignored in good conditions in a modern car. That sign serves a purpose, however. It states the maximum speed for a car with swing axles at the rear. If you enter one of those loops too quickly in a Herald or Beetle, you hang on, swear and promise never to do it again.

 

Those terrifying three wheelers of the 1950s weren't much more short of cornering ability than some of the four wheelers (pre-WWII designs with a face lift). At Reliant and Bond, the three wheeler persisted when BMC and continental manufacturers were building low cost cars with decent handling. Assume that drivers understood the limitations of their vehicles.

 

Berkeleys are always popular entries in historic sidecar races and they look pretty sedate when compared with some of the bike combinations.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Mekola
The Vespa 400 was the microcar commercialized in Argentina by none other by the Maestro, Juan Manuel Fangio.
It was one of his business when he was indicted by the military government and had to find new possibilities to finance his life...

Is this perhaps the car mentioned?



Strangely enough, this was one of the cars on display at the 'Good Guys' car show in Des Moines, Iowa, in July. Probably not so strange, though, as there was 3500 or more cars there.

[GMACKIE]

On looping slip roads entering/exiting UK motorways, there's usually a sign (50 mph or so) which can be safely ignored in good conditions in a modern car. That sign serves a purpose, however. It states the maximum speed for a car with swing axles at the rear. If you enter one of those loops too quickly in a Herald or Beetle, you hang on, swear and promise never to do it again.

 

How dare you cast nasturtiums at my beloved swing-axle Beetle !

 

I mean, really......they have been known to handle like a dream [and I don't want any "nightmare" comments thank you], such as this one :-

 

[275 GTB-4]

On looping slip roads entering/exiting UK motorways, there's usually a sign (50 mph or so) which can be safely ignored in good conditions in a modern car. That sign serves a purpose, however. It states the maximum speed for a car with swing axles at the rear. If you enter one of those loops too quickly in a Herald or Beetle, you hang on, swear and promise never to do it again.

Not too mention slippery surfaces etc...but I would suggest that the main reason for this speed advisory is the high CG of large numbers of modern soft roaders, 4WD and delivery trucks etc...

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 31 December 2014 - 21:14.