12 replies to this topic

[Boniver]

How many cars start in the GP of ACF(france) in 1923

[Hans Etzrodt]

1 . René Thomas (Delage 2LCV)
2 . Kenelm Lee Guinness (Sunbeam)
3 . Albert Guyot (Rolland-Pilain)
4 . Pietro Bordino (Fiat 805)
5 . Arthur Duray (Voisin)
6 . Ernst Friderich (Bugatti T30)
7 . Albert Divo (Sunbeam)
8 . Jules Goux (Rolland-Pilain) DID NOT START
10.André Lefebre (Voisin)
11.Pierre de Vicay (Bugatti T30)
12.Henry Segrave (Sunbeam)
13.Victor Hémery (Rolland-Pilain) Yes, Number 13!
14.Carlo Salamano (Fiat 805)
15.Henri Rougier (Voisin)
16.Pierre Marco (Bugatti T30)
17.André Morel (Voisin)
18.Prince de Cystria (Bugatti T30)

[David McKinney]

I'm in nit-picking mode, Hans:)
You know of course that the 11th placed Bugatti driver was Vizcaya, not Vicay
Henry Segrave was like John Hawthorn - he used his second name. It was only when he was knighted that, by the convention of the time, he had to be styled 'Sir Henry'

[Hans Etzrodt]

Thanks David,
You are absolutely right in correcting this mistake. I would do the same. Yes, I know it was Pierre de Vizcaya. His father, Juan de Vizcaya had 5 sons and 1 daughter and had raced some Bugattis. Pierre had left Spain after WW II and was living in France, probably to be closer to Bugatti in Molsheim for whom he was racing in the twenties. His younger brother Fernando raced primarily in Spain, I believe.

[Rob G]

Hans,

For the sake of accuracy, you also have Lefebvre's name misspelled. (Talk about nitpicking, huh?)

[Hans Etzrodt]

Thank you Rob,
For correcting my misspelling of French driver André Lefèbvre. BTW, I added him to my personal list of drivers in hope to avoid future misspellings.

[quintin cloud]

Hans I was looking that the entry list you posted for the '23 ACF and the car numbers you list ,I have do differ I've used the numbers listed in the black books

My numbers

5 Ernest Friderich Bugatti 30
6 Albert Divo Sunbeam
7 Enrico Giaccone Fiat 805
9 André Lefebvre Voisin Laboratoire
10 Pierre de Vizcaya Bugatti 30
11 Henry Segrave Sunbeam
12 Victor Hemery Rolland Pilain
13 Carlo Salamano Fiat 805
14 Henri Rougier Voisin Laboratoire
15 Pierre Marco Bugatti 30
16 André Morel Voisin Laboratoire
17 Prince the Cystria Bugatti 30
18 Arthur Duray Voisin Laboratoire

Hans

5 . Arthur Duray (Voisin)
6 . Ernst Friderich (Bugatti T30)
7 . Albert Divo (Sunbeam)
10.André Lefebre (Voisin)
11.Pierre de Vicay (Bugatti T30)
12.Henry Segrave (Sunbeam)
13.Victor Hémery (Rolland-Pilain) Yes, Number 13!
14.Carlo Salamano (Fiat 805)
15.Henri Rougier (Voisin)
16.Pierre Marco (Bugatti T30)
17.André Morel (Voisin)
18.Prince de Cystria (Bugatti T30)

I've only listed names and numbers that differ

[jarama]

Hans,

About the De Vizcaya racing drivers, there was also André, brother of Pierre and Fernando, IIRC.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Quintin,
In October 1990, I changed the numbers in my black book as per Paul Sheldon's Addenda for Volume 1. This addenda came with Volume 2.

[fines]

Even if it hadn't been for your last post, Hans, I would have anyway given your information preference over Sheldon's!;)

[Hans Etzrodt]

In Paul Sheldon's & his co-authors defense I have to remark that I find his high standard of accuracy truly remarkable, considering the amount of data he was manipulating in such a short time. Doing serious research in this field myself for over 11 years now, I know how long it all takes and what is involved to eliminate contradictions. Some will remain forever. This is sometimes a very boring tedious job and I almost fell asleep at times, same as watching F1 cars racing nowadays, although I love them both.

[fines]

You're right, of course, the standard of the Sheldon books is very high. My remark wasn't meant to denigrate the Black Books, merely to mark your expertise. :schmeichel:;)

[Hans Etzrodt]

Oh!