1322 replies to this topic

[paulb]

^ Perfect for such a delicate track.

[loki]

 

From COTA's twixter acct. LOL. I guess it's kinda fitting since the cars are as long as an F-150 now:

 

https://x.com/COTA/s...serp|twgr^tweet

 

Circuit of The Americas

@COTA

Join us in being a part of the USGP F1 Drivers Parade! We are on the hunt for tricked out trucks (1990’s - Present) to escort 

F1 drivers during Parade Laps.

 

Easy on the F150 comparison.  You’ll anger your neighbors…   

 

There are a ton of shops building those in TX (as I'm sure you see every day). Ol’ Bill Carlton over in Houston builds a butt load of those.

 

I can’t help but thinking “Escorts needed for F1 drivers parade” would have been a better tag line.

[AustinF1]

Easy on the F150 comparison.  You’ll anger your neighbors… 

 

There are a ton of shops building those in TX (as I'm sure you see every day). Ol’ Bill Carlton over in Houston builds a butt load of those.

 

I can’t help but thinking “Escorts needed for F1 drivers parade” would have been a better tag line.

Yeah, too many. Not nearly as many in Austin as in Houston or Dallas, but still too many. The worst part is when they're behind you, almost always following way too closely, and they blind you with the 57 ultra-bright LEDs they have mounted on the front, right at the level of your mirrors. I swear to God the other night one of 'em gave me a sunburn a la Richard Dreyfus in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

 

But hey, sawed off, little-d*** roid bros gotta compensate somehow, am I right?

Edited by AustinF1, 16 August 2024 - 01:55.

[AustinF1]

They're resurfacing the esses. Again.

[Laptom]

Why? The Esses remain to bouncy? 

 

If I remember it correctly the complete circuit is rather bouncy, part of the character in my perspective (I love the races at COTA), but the esses can be dangerous indeed.

[AustinF1]

Why? The Esses remain to bouncy? 

 

If I remember it correctly the complete circuit is rather bouncy, part of the character in my perspective (I love the races at COTA), but the esses can be dangerous indeed.

They've gotten pretty bouncy again despite being resurfaced only a couple or three years ago. None of these numerous, almost annual bouts of piecemeal grinding and resurfacing are ever a real, serious repair. And just a hunch based on past history: I wouldn't be at all surprised if certain other spots get yet another round of resurfacing as well -  T2, T9-10, T12, T18-19. Esp T9-10. 10 was the first place they ever resurfaced, and they re-do it almost every time any resurfacing is done. 

 

Oh, and speaking of danger in the esses, the biggest danger there is in the paved runoff when cars miss a turn. I've seen cars and bikes literally go airborne numerous times after launching off the swells in the runoff. I'd love to see that fixed, but short of someone from MotoGP or F1 telling Epstein "We're done at COTA unless that's fixed", it's not gonna happen.

Edited by AustinF1, 15 January 2025 - 07:31.

[Autodromo]

They've gotten pretty bouncy again despite being resurfaced only a couple or three years ago. None of these numerous, almost annual bouts of piecemeal grinding and resurfacing are ever a real, serious repair. And just a hunch based on past history: I wouldn't be at all surprised if certain other spots get yet another round of resurfacing as well -  T2, T9-10, T12, T18-19. Esp T9-10. 10 was the first place they ever resurfaced, and they re-do it almost every time any resurfacing is done. 

 

Oh, and speaking of danger in the esses, the biggest danger there is in the paved runoff when cars miss a turn. I've seen cars and bikes literally go airborne numerous times after launching off the swells in the runoff. I'd love to see that fixed, but short of someone from MotoGP or F1 telling Epstein "We're done at COTA unless that's fixed", it's not gonna happen.

Seems like they made the calculation, perhaps when building, that it was cheaper to continually resurface than stabilize the ground.

[BRG]

I suspect any calculations were done on the fingers of one hand.

[AustinF1]

Seems like they made the calculation, perhaps when building, that it was cheaper to continually resurface than stabilize the ground.

Seems like they've made that calculation, but it was after letting the track and drainage fall into disrepair. The track was engineered with the unstable soil in mind and was built to handle it. It was fine for the first few years, but I've been told corners were cut early on in maintenance, which led to these continuing issues. That was a miscalculation I'll bet he wishes he could go back and do over. There's a whole lot about it earlier in the thread.

 

See this post on the previous page. https://forums.autos...6#entry10691124

 

I suspect any calculations were done on the fingers of one hand.

Indeed.

[AustinF1]

LOL Bobby thinks a parking garage will help COTA's ingress/egress/parking situation. https://www.mysanant...ge-20096582.php

 

I mean ... that's cool I guess, but when it comes to parking for sporting events, everyone with any sense avoids parking garages like the plague. The only location I can think of where a garage will help anything would be in the Paddock, where it won't help the typical fan even a little bit.

[Beri]

How about, hear me out because I know most Muricans will get a seizure reading this proposal, building a train line from down town Austin, via Bergstrom to COTA. Make it run a metro like service like at Zandvoort. Meaning every 10 minutes a train comes and leaves.

It would help out traffic to and from the airport on normal days by having a regular service. And on race days the service runs to COTA.

 

But hey, what do I know when living in a country where travelling to and from work via public transportation costs me less time than going by car?

[BRG]

How about, hear me out because I know most Muricans will get a seizure reading this proposal, building a train line from down town Austin, via Bergstrom to COTA. Make it run a metro like service like at Zandvoort. Meaning every 10 minutes a train comes and leaves.

It would help out traffic to and from the airport on normal days by having a regular service. And on race days the service runs to COTA.

 

But hey, what do I know when living in a country where travelling to and from work via public transportation costs me less time than going by car?

Hmm, credit to you for being a rail enthusiast, but you do realise that Zandvoort is an actual town and seaside resort that has a rail service 365 days a year.  Whereas COTA....

[Beri]

..should have a line extension only served when there is major activity on track. From the year round, there are at least 5 weekends that see a big crowd gathering. Justifies a connection to any form of mass public transportation. Train, lightrail, tram, whatever.

[Sterzo]

That's about 15 miles of railway to be built, Beri, which in the UK would cost upwards of $280 million. Quite a lot for one weekend a year.

[PayasYouRace]

Does COTA only host one event per year now?

[Beri]

That's about 15 miles of railway to be built, Beri, which in the UK would cost upwards of $280 million. Quite a lot for one weekend a year.

That's from downtown, yes. You're forgetting that I am talking about 4 to 5 miles of railway, lightrail or tramway. From the airport to COTA. And those costs are nowhere near 300 million Dollars as long as it's not in the UK. HS2 is a joke on that behalf.
As someone who has done these kinds of projects in The Netherlands, I do realize that it is still a lot of money, but the ultimate costs depend on a lot of things. Acquiring land and safety certification are costs that usually exceed the actual realization of the line itself if there are not many land purchases and keep the infrastructure to level crossings only. Add in the fact that it would be a extension/branch from a mainline from downtown/University to the Airport, and there is a broader reach and it is easier to justify the costs. And yes, from downtown/the university out the costs will rise as infrastructure has to be changed and there are a lot of other hurdles to be taken there. And that budget may rise very quickly. So whilst I opted for a train, a tramway would perhaps be the easiest to implement as well as the cheapest solution. It's only 15 miles.

[pdac]

My experience of the US, apart from the very big cities, is that people who are not so poor as to have no choice feel safe in their cars, but they do not feel comfortable using public transport. There is, of course, no evidence to support these feelings, but that's what you'd have to overcome. So, best to conduct research to ensure that people will use your railway before spending a lot to build it.

[Beri]

Hence I said:

 

How about, hear me out because I know most Muricans will get a seizure reading this proposal, building a train line from down town Austin, via Bergstrom to COTA. Make it run a metro like service like at Zandvoort. Meaning every 10 minutes a train comes and leaves.

It would help out traffic to and from the airport on normal days by having a regular service. And on race days the service runs to COTA.

 

But hey, what do I know when living in a country where travelling to and from work via public transportation costs me less time than going by car?

[AustinF1]

How about, hear me out because I know most Muricans will get a seizure reading this proposal, building a train line from down town Austin, via Bergstrom to COTA. Make it run a metro like service like at Zandvoort. Meaning every 10 minutes a train comes and leaves.

It would help out traffic to and from the airport on normal days by having a regular service. And on race days the service runs to COTA.

 

But hey, what do I know when living in a country where travelling to and from work via public transportation costs me less time than going by car?

Hmm, credit to you for being a rail enthusiast, but you do realise that Zandvoort is an actual town and seaside resort that has a rail service 365 days a year.  Whereas COTA....

..should have a line extension only served when there is major activity on track. From the year round, there are at least 5 weekends that see a big crowd gathering. Justifies a connection to any form of mass public transportation. Train, lightrail, tram, whatever.

That's about 15 miles of railway to be built, Beri, which in the UK would cost upwards of $280 million. Quite a lot for one weekend a year.

That's from downtown, yes. You're forgetting that I am talking about 4 to 5 miles of railway, lightrail or tramway. From the airport to COTA. And those costs are nowhere near 300 million Dollars as long as it's not in the UK. HS2 is a joke on that behalf.
As someone who has done these kinds of projects in The Netherlands, I do realize that it is still a lot of money, but the ultimate costs depend on a lot of things. Acquiring land and safety certification are costs that usually exceed the actual realization of the line itself if there are not many land purchases and keep the infrastructure to level crossings only. Add in the fact that it would be a extension/branch from a mainline from downtown/University to the Airport, and there is a broader reach and it is easier to justify the costs. And yes, from downtown/the university out the costs will rise as infrastructure has to be changed and there are a lot of other hurdles to be taken there. And that budget may rise very quickly. So whilst I opted for a train, a tramway would perhaps be the easiest to implement as well as the cheapest solution. It's only 15 miles.

OK, I love taking Montreal's Metro to the race there, but unfortunately, Austin is not Montreal in that regard. Some background on Austin's light rail situation, such as it is. We currently have one line that opened in 2010 after decades of wrangling, which runs from Leander in the northwest suburbs to downtown. The red line runs on pre-existing tracks and was still pretty expensive. There is the potential for expansion east to Elgin using existing rails (green line), but the proposed orange and blue lines to the west side of downtown and to the airport would require new construction. In my opinion, the first line to be built should have been from the airport to downtown, but what do I know, and here in Southwest Austin, I doubt I'll ever see rail near us even though we're right next to one of the two busiest highways in Central Texas. For some reason, the CTRMA isn't interested in serving this rapidly growing and already crowded area. We can't have nice things.

 

My experience of the US, apart from the very big cities, is that people who are not so poor as to have no choice feel safe in their cars, but they do not feel comfortable using public transport. There is, of course, no evidence to support these feelings, but that's what you'd have to overcome. So, best to conduct research to ensure that people will use your railway before spending a lot to build it.

Lots of people would love to have more rail here, but there are some issues that get in the way.

- Capitol Metro has for decades demonstrated an inability to manage money well or stay within budget on construction projects.

- the Red line, even though it's built on existing rails, has cost somewhere north of $150M. It was completed in 2010. The next phase, including a line from downtown to the airport, has been approved by voters at a cost of more than $7 Billion. AFAIK, no construction work has begun, and I don't know when it's projected to be completed.

- It's one thing to have population density like we see in Europe and the northeast US, and have the city and rail system grow together. It's a completely different animal to try to insert a rail system into a city that had no need for rail for most of its existence and suddenly exploded with growth. Building a system, even a simple one, into an already-established metro area is expensive, difficult, and contentious.

 

With all of that in mind, on to the extension of the airport line from the airport to COTA. COTA is an island of activity in a rural area, and there isn't really that much activity anyway. There are only a few days out of the year when the local traffic is very intense. I don't see such a line being built anytime soon because of the expense vs the extremely limited need for it outside of maybe 6 days per year. If there were a significant population center nearby and beyond COTA for an extended line to serve, then maybe, but there isn't. COTA as an 'end of the line' Metro rail destination would be difficult at best to justify, imho. Bobby Epstein certainly is not going to pay for it, and most people in the city of Austin have never been to COTA and will never go there. Bobby Epstein has been saying since 2010 that there will be a hotel at COTA. It hasn't materialized though, largely for those same reasons. And then there's the issue of how long COTA will be there with large events happening, which is anyone's guess imho. 

 

Does COTA only host one event per year now?

Over the years they've lost IndyCar, V8SC, IMSA, WEC for a long stretch, Creventic 24H, Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Supercup, Super Trofeo, F3, F4 US, American Flat Track, WRX, GRC, ARC, XGames, & many more.

 

What's left? This year COTA will host F1 & MotoGP, and Texas Motor Speedway will host NASCAR at COTA. There are also some very lightly-attended events in WEC (for now) & GT World Challenge. Only F1, MotoGP, and NASCAR will cause significant traffic issues, for 1 - 2 days each.

Edited by AustinF1, Yesterday, 18:50.

[pdac]

OK, I love taking Montreal's Metro to the race there, but unfortunately, Austin is not Montreal in that regard. Some background on Austin's light rail situation, such as it is. We currently have one line that opened in 2010 after decades of wrangling, which runs from Leander in the northwest suburbs to downtown. The red line runs on pre-existing tracks and was still pretty expensive. There is the potential for expansion east to Elgin using existing rails (green line), but the proposed orange and blue lines to the west side of downtown and to the airport would require new construction. In my opinion, the first line to be built should have been from the airport to downtown, but what do I know, and here in Southwest Austin, I doubt I'll ever see rail near us even though we're right next to one of the two busiest highways in Central Texas. For some reason, the CTRMA isn't interested in serving this rapidly growing and already crowded area. We can't have nice things.

 

Lots of people would love to have more rail here, but there are some issues that get in the way.

- Capitol Metro has for decades demonstrated an inability to manage money well or stay within budget on construction projects.

- the Red line, even though it's built on existing rails, has cost somewhere north of $150M. It was completed in 2010. The next phase, including a line from downtown to the airport, has been approved by voters at a cost of more than $7 Billion. AFAIK, no construction work has begun, and I don't know when it's projected to be completed.

- It's one thing to have population density like we see in Europe and the northeast US, and have the city and rail system grow together. It's a completely different animal to try to insert a rail system into a city that had no need for rail for most of its existence and suddenly exploded with growth. Building a system, even a simple one, into an already-established metro area is expensive and difficult.

 

With all of that in mind, on to the extension of the airport line from the airport to COTA. COTA is an island of activity in a rural area, and there isn't really that much activity anyway. There are only a few days out of the year when the local traffic is very intense. I don't see such a line being built anytime soon because of the expense vs the extremely limited need for it outside of maybe 6-8 days per year. If there were a significant population center nearby and beyond COTA for an extended line to serve, then maybe, but there isn't. COTA as 'end of the line' Metro rail destination would be difficult at best to justify, imho. Bobby Epstein certainly is not going to pay for it, and most people in the city of Austin have never been to COTA and will never go there. Bobby Epstein has been saying since 2010 that there will be a hotel at COTA. It hasn't materialized though, largely for those same reasons. And then there's the issue of how long COTA will be there with large events happening, which is anyone's guess imho. 

 

Over the years they've lost IndyCar, V8SC, IMSA, WEC for a long stretch, Creventic 24H, Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Supercup, Super Trofeo, F3, F4 US, American Flat Track, WRX, GRC, ARC, XGames, & many more.

 

This year COTA will host F1 & MotoGP, and Texas Motor Speedway will host NASCAR at COTA. There are also some very lightly-attended events in WEC, GT World Challenge, MotoAmerica and SVRA. Only F1, MotoGP, and NASCAR will cause significant traffic issues, for 1 - 3 days each.

 

Could you see the possibility of using driverless buses in place of a train?

[AustinF1]

Could you see the possibility of using driverless buses in place of a train?

I don't think we have those or have any serious plans for them, but we already use a lot of buses from remote parking areas (not the airport, which is already crowded). What is the advantage of driverless buses? I'd think introducing them into a chaotic, crowded, improvised traffic scene (hundreds of roadway cones, pedestrians everywhere, etc) could be problematic, but who knows.

 

We've had issues with that mode of transport - not so much with the buses themselves, but in terms of logistical management - with buses being redirected by COTA and leaving people stranded for hours & eventually having to walk miles in the dark along a highway to their cars, COTA not hiring enough buses to do the job, etc.

Edited by AustinF1, Yesterday, 18:52.

[pdac]

I don't think we have those or have any serious plans for them, but we already use a lot of buses from remote parking areas (not the airport, which is already crowded). What is the advantage of driverless buses? I'd think introducing them into a chaotic, crowded, improvised traffic scene (hundreds of roadway cones, pedestrians everywhere, etc) could be problematic, but who knows.

 

We've had issues with that mode of transport - not so much with the buses themselves, but in terms of logistical management - with buses being redirected by COTA and leaving people stranded for hours & eventually having to walk miles in the dark along a highway to their cars, COTA not hiring enough buses to do the job, etc.

 

I was simply thinking that might be a cheap option. I'm not sure where, if anywhere, in the world that driverless vehicles are allowed right now (I get the impression there may be some places in the US). I personally have a deep belief that the concept of roads of mixed driverless and driven vehicles is something that just won't work. So I tend to agree with your views.

[AustinF1]

I was simply thinking that might be a cheap option. I'm not sure where, if anywhere, in the world that driverless vehicles are allowed right now (I get the impression there may be some places in the US). I personally have a deep belief that the concept of roads of mixed driverless and driven vehicles is something that just won't work. So I tend to agree with your views.

Given the state of driver skills and attention level I currently observe on the road today, I'm not opposed to driverless vehicles. Some people would be far safer if their car was driving them rather than the reverse. We do have some driverless rideshare vehicles in downtown Austin. Overall they're doing fairly well, but there have been some incidents here and there. One or two where the car just stopped in the middle of traffic and wouldn't move, and some accidents. My son says there was one where an e-scooter rider (don't get me started on that) fell and was almost struck by the driverless vehicle. I personally think there will be problems with driverless vehincles in construction areas with temporary markings and traffic patterns that change frequently. The Tesla Cybertruck incident (in California iirc) where the truck turned onto a downtown light rail line thinking it was a vehicle lane comes to mind as one where the car couldn't discern the proper route but went on ahead anyway.