342 replies to this topic

[JeePee]

So we will see who will be more succesfull in F1; Max of Esteban.

You can already feel a bit of tension between the two on podiums and such. Wouldn't mind if they both have a long career in F1 ahead of them. A bit of archrivalry wouldn't harm the sport!

[Humbug]

You can already feel a bit of tension between the two on podiums and such. Wouldn't mind if they both have a long career in F1 ahead of them. A bit of archrivalry wouldn't harm the sport!

Agree!!

[Viryfan]

Hey guys calm down.     

 

It is difficult to argue the fact that Max has been more impressive than Esteban during the course of this season.

 

Intellectual honesty.....

 

Having said that it would be unfair to judge Ocon against Verstappen and vice versa.

 

 

Now Verstappen has been astonishing, Ocon got the job done for his rookie year but more interestingly Prema decided to go for Ocon rather than a guy like Lucas Auer that was destined to take the place of Marciello as a team leader.

 

Ocon has clearly not the racecraft of Max but who else in F3 field has a similar race craft to Max.

 

Good on both them, really to great such intense drivers as teenagers.

 

In fact everybody in Top 5 has been a winner this year due to many reasons:

 

- Ocon because he got the job done as Fr2.0 graduate 

- Verstappen that stunned the world of motorsport

- Blomqvist he took his chance with full hands with KFC indonesia but fall short against two teenagers monsters

- Auer destroyed Rosenqvist

- Fuoco will get a second shot Prema as he could learn his craft while Ocon taking the positive and negative headlines

 

 

On the contrary , King, Dennis Rosenqvist did not confirm the expectations.

Edited by Viryfan, 15 October 2014 - 10:37.

[zanquis]

King and Dennis did exactly what I expected from them, they are simply not in the same league as the others.
Their CV is not so impressive and no indication that they are n the way to greatness, but maybe it will come.later, but honestly not expecting much from them.

British F3 champion 2013? Sorry but British F3 is not what it was some years ago when you had a field full of talent.

Rosenqvist was the biggest dissapointment in performance with his experience he should have done better. I think he needs to consider his options, he does not have financial backing to move up, nor has he shown anything this year to justify it. He needs to think about a sideways carreer path now I think. Maybe see if he can go DTM.

Next year maybe some other drivers will find their speed. I am expecting Auer, Fuoco, Giovinazzi as the top fighters next year.

Edited by zanquis, 15 October 2014 - 12:58.

[lars75]

The best drivers move on while the best drivers from lower series join in. Only after the grid is complete and we have the first races we will know if it is a strong grid or not.

 

Well Stroll will join Prema in 2015, thats 99% sure!

[lars75]

He is not over 100 points behind?

 

And why would you take away those 2 weekends?

Even if you do he was still quicker than Ocon in Austria, Nurburgring and Imola.

 

Also you forget the word 'potential'. Max is growing and is visibly getting quicker. Ocon is sort of 'stuck' and was surpassed by Max halfway through the season.

 

Well if we do leave those 2 weekends out of the standings, so we do for Moscow and Hungary for Ocon. That wil throw him 143 points back as well! 

 

But Max won't be 10th when you cut that races, he wil drop 150 points and would have had 218 points. He would be 6th still in front off Giovinazzi!

Ocon would be 3th just in front of Auer with 311 points! 

In that matter Blomqvist would be the leader and I asume he is the best then!?

 

It's a stupid argument to leave those weekends out off the comparison, why would you do that? When we look at the weekend at Spa and Norisring, those were the races where he stoud out most and why dr. Marko signed him up for STR. That remark makes this argument even more dumb.

Edited by lars75, 15 October 2014 - 19:42.

[lars75]

And add the 15 poles of Ocon compared to the 6 of Max.

 

7 poles but one lost due to a gridpenalty!

[lars75]

I agree it looks like Max in growing faster and looks to like have more potential. But here is where I am more reserved. Young drivers may have different learningcurves. Some develop more in the beginning of their carreer, but have a more flattened learningcurve later on. Others start slower and keep on developing.

Part of my reservation is because his dad was also the next big thing when he entered F1. Turns out that he wasnt. If you compare Verstappen sr. with, for example another driver of his generation Fiscicella, it looked like Verstappen sr. had much more potential. The reality was that the Italian was much more succesfull in F1.

 

So we will see who will be more succesfull in F1; Max of Esteban.

 

Succes in F1 doens't depent on what you know but who you know! 

 

Verstappen ****ed up with Ron Dennis, Willy Weber, Briatore, Stewart, while his manager ****ed up with Jordan. And they ****ed up with Marlboro Netherlands by joining Benetton in stead off McLaren. Verstappen was one off the fastest en best skilled drivers, but he had some disconected fuses under his helmet wich cost him big time!

 

Perhaps Verstappen is out F1 after 3 years off STR and Ocon will be in F1 for 10 years. That says nothing about their quality as drivers!

 

Ocon did deserve the title with 9 wins, 9 2nd and 3 3rd places. He was on the podium 21 times. So even if we should cut the 9 worst results of both Ocon would be on the podium every single time, only the gap would be a little smaller. But both would be no 1 and 2 in the standings whithout those nine races!

 

That said, even then I still think Max made a much stronger impression then Ocon. As it is for the team and in comparison with their teammates and due to their experience in single seaters!

 

In a head to head the numbers are in favour off Max!

 

https://www.driverdb...max-verstappen/

 

That are the facts speaking!

[William Hunt]

I think you are right; "IF". It's so unfair!

 

If my aunt had a penis she would be my uncle.

[Viryfan]

Interesting to read that according to Autosport that Ocon raced race 2 with a broken clutch. Impressive performance.

 

He really wanted badly this championship 

Edited by Viryfan, 16 October 2014 - 07:35.

[Nigol]

Verstappen Info Page ‏@VerstappenNL  18m

18 minutes ago

Results #FIAF3 #qualifying1: 1 Verstappen, 2 Auer, 3 Blomqvist, 4 Giovinazzi, 5 King, 6 Ocon, 7 Rosenqvist, 8 Gelael, Serralles, 10 Menezes

[A3]

Auer was quickest in most of the session, but Max stole the pole in the end, by a very small margin (0.018 if I remember correctly). Ocon disappointing, he looked quite quick in the free practice sessions.

Edited by A3, 17 October 2014 - 14:29.

[Viryfan]

http://www.fiaf3euro...14-10-17-q3.pdf

http://www.fiaf3euro...14-10-17-q2.pdf

 

Blomqvist blisting the field.

 

Mucke and Carlin outpacing the rest of the field.

 

Ocon P6 , constantly. I'm not sure there is much more to gain over competition for Prema as he is ahead of Fuoco. Maybe a lack of preparation from Prema following title as the team title is also on card. Also Ocon engine has now over 5000km, i'm also pretty sure that they have to put less downforce in order tp keep it up with fresher engine. Looking forward to Macau with fresher engine fully cranked up for everybody.

Edited by Viryfan, 17 October 2014 - 16:35.

[JeePee]

Max has got to work hard for P2 in the championship this weekend!

[A3]

Very weird to lose a full second in 2 hours time. Even stranger that VAR & Max have no idea why. Going to be tough indeed for him to stay P2 in the championship.

[JeePee]

Very nice race win for Max! Didn't loose the lead one second and made zero mistakes.

 

Hope his car/tyres are oke for race 2. That will give us some overtaking

Edited by JeePee, 18 October 2014 - 09:15.

[Raikkonen94]

Very nice race win for Max! Didn't loose the lead one second and made zero mistakes.

 

Hope his car/tyres are oke for race 2. That will give us some overtaking

 

Exactly, another outstanding performance by our Dutchman! Hopefully he can keep this pace into the next race later this afternoon. He should be able to climb back up through the field and who knows how far he gets then..

[JeePee]

What a bad director this race... Verstappen overtook a lot of people and we missed it all for useless replays.

[Lipp]

And the commentators were not at their best too, they missed the overtaking of Auer by Giovanazzi! This was for 2nd place!

 

Having said that, great win for Blomqvist. That will be one race tomorrow for 2nd place in the championship.

Edited by Lipp, 18 October 2014 - 15:03.

[Viryfan]

Ocon seemed to get the car better to his taste.

 

Good moves on King and Rosenqvist.

 

He seems to become cleaner on his defense.

 

Max and Esteban not impressed at all with their rookie podium.

 

They have collected more than 40 trophies this year.     

[tempname11]

I don't understand how Verstappen has managed to control and win race 1 convincingly, but then look slow-ish in race 2 and 3. It corresponds to his Q1, Q2 and Q3 as well.

 

What is it? Sets of tyres of different quality? Setup suiting a particular track temperature? Not having to run in dirty air? Psychological advantage? 

[TheRacingElf]

It's very strange indeed. On Friday in Q1 he was very fast and suddenly in Q2/3 the pace was suddenly gone. Then on Saturday in race 1 he is very fast again and then in race 2 and 3 the pace is gone again.

 

Do they have to start the race on the set of tires they qualified with? If so maybe there was something wrong with those, I just can't get my head around how you can be so fast one moment and next moment the pace is gone.

[JeePee]

[Kyo]

Championship is over, Ocon 1st 58p ahead of Blomqvist and 67p ahead of Verstappen. So some that not watched the season might be asking why so much hype over Verstappen.

 

Here some stats.

10 victories, more than anyone else.

Highest scorer in the 3rd races of the weekends with 171 points against 158 from Ocon, 112 from Auer and 106 from Blomqvist.

After the first 4 rounds Ocon had a 150 points lead over Verstappen, so ending the season 67 points behind doesn't look so bad.

Also Verstappen had an awful lot of mechanical failures. Did not start when he was on pole in Hockenheimring, a clutch failure in Hungary when he was 3rd, lost of power in Moscow when he was 4th and had an engine failure when he was leading in Nurburgring that also resulted in a 10 place grid penalty for 3 races.

[billm99uk]

 

Suspect we'll be seing that in F1 in a couple of years time ;)

[TimRTC]

Championship is over, Ocon 1st 58p ahead of Blomqvist and 67p ahead of Verstappen. So some that not watched the season might be asking why so much hype over Verstappen.

 

Here some stats.

10 victories, more than anyone else.

Highest scorer in the 3rd races of the weekends with 171 points against 158 from Ocon, 112 from Auer and 106 from Blomqvist.

After the first 4 rounds Ocon had a 150 points lead over Verstappen, so ending the season 67 points behind doesn't look so bad.

Also Verstappen had an awful lot of mechanical failures. Did not start when he was on pole in Hockenheimring, a clutch failure in Hungary when he was 3rd, lost of power in Moscow when he was 4th and had an engine failure when he was leading in Nurburgring that also resulted in a 10 place grid penalty for 3 races.

 

Proof if needed that team owners can spot talent through problems not of their own making.

 

I find it rather amusing when people post their concerns that a talented driver will be overlooked because they had a poor run of luck. I'm pretty sure the talent scouts of motor sports know more than just how to look at a podium result.

[HistoryFan]

Why weren't Kirchhöfer and Motopark Academy in Hockenheim?

[TimRTC]

Season summary - although DTM did the video game thing first...

 

[SenorSjon]

Suspect we'll be seing that in F1 in a couple of years time ;)

 

Not with the current F1 noses. In F1, Verstappen would have lost his front wing and Ocon would have had a puncture.

[EarnardBeccelstone]

This is the second year that I've followed Euro F3 and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

I can see why RedBull/Toro Rosso picked up Verstappen. The flashes of brilliance are there, in qualifying and in raceing, particularly novel overtaking approaches and forcing his opponents on the defensive. I also believe it wouldn't have happened quite so quickly without his father's influence, but most jobs are as much who you know as how good you are.

 

I picked Ocon as my one to watch after the first weekend of the season. He performed superlatively well in the middle of the season, particularly in qualifying. He was sort of my 'guy' for the season.

 

With that said, I'd argue that Ocon is just as talented a driver as Verstappen, but not as much of a racer.

 

When Ocon had clear air in front of him, he was often the class of the field - fast, metronomically precise, with very few mistakes.

 

However, if he was caught in a battling pack, he seems a little out of place. The season, he's appeared to be unable to put the necessary pressure on cars ahead of him to force errors. Unlike Verstappen, he wasn't climbing all over gearboxes trying to generate a mistake. Instead, he waited for his opponent to make an unforced error, which paid off only rarely.

 

Then there was his tendencey to make pointless dummies at the end of a straight when he was five or six car lengths back. His continued use of the 'let them know i'm there' tactic at Hockenheim (I think) was frustrating to watch.

 

All that aside, the driver that impressed me most in the second half of the season was Blomqvist. He scored 212 points in the last four race meeting of the season, compared to 99 for Ocon and 148 for Verstappen. I know this was his third or fourth season of F3, but I get the feeling that even if he doesn't make it to F1, he's got a serious future ahead of him in endurance racing/sportcars.

[Brandz07]

Season summary - although DTM did the video game thing first...

 

DTM & FIA F3 share the same media department (I believe), so no surprise there.

[zanquis]

This is the second year that I've followed Euro F3 and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

I can see why RedBull/Toro Rosso picked up Verstappen. The flashes of brilliance are there, in qualifying and in raceing, particularly novel overtaking approaches and forcing his opponents on the defensive. I also believe it wouldn't have happened quite so quickly without his father's influence, but most jobs are as much who you know as how good you are.

 

I picked Ocon as my one to watch after the first weekend of the season. He performed superlatively well in the middle of the season, particularly in qualifying. He was sort of my 'guy' for the season.

 

With that said, I'd argue that Ocon is just as talented a driver as Verstappen, but not as much of a racer.

 

When Ocon had clear air in front of him, he was often the class of the field - fast, metronomically precise, with very few mistakes.

 

However, if he was caught in a battling pack, he seems a little out of place. The season, he's appeared to be unable to put the necessary pressure on cars ahead of him to force errors. Unlike Verstappen, he wasn't climbing all over gearboxes trying to generate a mistake. Instead, he waited for his opponent to make an unforced error, which paid off only rarely.

 

Then there was his tendencey to make pointless dummies at the end of a straight when he was five or six car lengths back. His continued use of the 'let them know i'm there' tactic at Hockenheim (I think) was frustrating to watch.

 

All that aside, the driver that impressed me most in the second half of the season was Blomqvist. He scored 212 points in the last four race meeting of the season, compared to 99 for Ocon and 148 for Verstappen. I know this was his third or fourth season of F3, but I get the feeling that even if he doesn't make it to F1, he's got a serious future ahead of him in endurance racing/sportcars.

Agree on Ocon, he seems to be a smooth driver but needs to work on racing in the pack. He would do well to have a few years in lower series to develop that skill. He has plenty of speed, but you need more then just speed.

Blomqvist had a great last part of the season and a decent start, but terrible mid season. BUT not to talk him down as he seriously needs to move up and away from F3, Ocon was more looking like he was already calculating and not taking any risks anymore and Verstappen had the bad luck with his engine failure. Which would have cost him at least 60 points (unless something else weird would have happened then) of which a big portion went straight to Blomqvist.

I also think Auer did great and would like to see him later also. He improved from last year despite what I rate a much higher quality field and in a slightly lesser team he score 3 wins this season also. Some of which where with good overtaking.

[Rob Semmeling]

Autosport.com has an article for subscribers only about their top-10 European Formula 3 drivers of 2014. Is there anyone who would be kind enough to send it via a quick PM ?

[HistoryFan]

what were the problems for Rosenqvist season? Why was he just 8th in the points?

[A3]

Autosport.com has an article for subscribers only about their top-10 European Formula 3 drivers of 2014. Is there anyone who would be kind enough to send it via a quick PM ?

You can't spare 38 cents?

[FerrariV12]

As an aside - a big thumbs up to the championship for their online presence - all of this season's races are available on their YouTube channel (plus all of last year's races for those who want to see how Marciello and co. got on as well). Full races as well, with commentary, not half-arsed highlights packages. Puts most other championships out there to shame.

[Rob Semmeling]

You can't spare 38 cents?

Nope, I'm that cheap...

Seriously though, I didn't realise there's an option to buy specific articles. Good to know. In the meantime someone was kind enough to send me what I asked for, so we can all live happily ever after.

[Lipp]

Nope, I'm that cheap...

Seriously though, I didn't realise there's an option to buy specific articles. Good to know. In the meantime someone was kind enough to send me what I asked for, so we can all live happily ever after.

this sharing process is also known as 'stealing'

[SenorSjon]

Were there bits lost in the process?

[Risil]

this sharing process is also known as 'stealing'

 

That really depends on what/how much was shared...

[Beamer]

That really depends on what/how much was shared...

No it doesn't. That just defines how much was stoken...

[A3]

 In the meantime someone was kind enough to send me what I asked for, so we can all live happily ever after.

 

Unless the mods ban you for admitting this. 

[Rob Semmeling]

Well someone forgot to take their chill pill... FYI, I got a quick summary which was enough for me. As you can see, I have not been banned, instead the mods have punished me by making me write a 10-page essay about why Moscow Raceway is such a great circuit.

Incidentally, a German translation of the full article is available over at Motorsport-Total.com, so there you go.