272 replies to this topic

[Atreiu]

Anything over 15'' is unnecessary. The 13'' on F1 cars and the 15'' on Indycar look good and do the job, those pictures above with the Lotus and GP2 car look god awful. 

 

15" would be an acceptable compromise for those afraid of 18".

Simply breaking the 13" stalemate is necessary.

[V8 Fireworks]

This. The 18's look too big and civic boy racer. 16 at the front and 17 at the rear would be perfect. 

Civic-Rs and Astra VXR/OPCs have 20" rims nowadays....   

 

[V8 Fireworks]

 

Front tyre should be a quite a bit narrower and less grippy than the rear to make the car pointy and nervous to separate the men from the boys

 

 

 

That would make it plough understeer NOT pointy.  You need smaller rear tyres to make it pointy.....

[FPV GTHO]

Seventeen would be about right right for the height of an F1 IMHO with reasonably proportioned tyre not too balloon but stiff capable of lasting 150 miles or 80 minutes.

Front tyre should be a quite a bit narrower and less grippy than the rear to make the car pointy and nervous to separate the men from the boys and relegate the telemetry copiers to the ranks of the also-rans.

Front wing to be reduced and simplified in proportion to the new front wheels.

If you can really drive, you can win

Seano

Narrow fronts make the cars understeer. If you want pointy and nervous you want wider fronts.

[Wuzak]

For those thining that changing to larger rims would require extra spending in the suspension I think you are wrong.

 

As the current tyre sidewalls are so high the deflection of the tyre composes much of the suspension travel and makes controlling the suspension tricky. It's why Renault came up with the mass damper and McLaren the inerter.

 

Lots of money is spent to get the suspension to work properly.

 

Aerodynamics would need tweeking too, as even the change from Bridgestone to Pirelli caused prblems due to the different shape and characteristics of the new tyres.

[CoolBreeze]

They look stupid and ugly. Like i said many times, the day these rule makers stop trying to make F1 road relevant, that the day it will all start prospering. 

[PayasYouRace]

Comments on this thread just show how many fans would rather just stick with their nostalgia rather than making any sort of progress and keeping F1 modern. If the teams had free reign you'd see larger rims due to the performance advantage, as many have pointed out from other series.

 

I think F1 became too stagnant about and around 10 years ago and it shows in how many perceive it.

[Anja]

These 18" look just tacky in my opinion. 15" or 16" should be better.

[uffen]

It was always said that it is important to reduce the unsprung weight on a racing car. So, the wheel, tire, brake disc, brake caliper(s), and the like. This was for better suspension control. I don't know if they've somehow surpassed this need, but I'm not sure how they would have. So, heavier wheels, bigger (heavier) brakes, etc. seems to be asking for some issues. Yes, you can go carbon fibre on the wheels (with regulatory approval) but that seems to be yet another cost increase for the teams.

 

Does anyone know if low unsprung weight is no longer sought?

[ray b]

proper wheels use wire spokes

[morrino]

They look stupid and ugly. Like i said many times, the day these rule makers stop trying to make F1 road relevant, that the day it will all start prospering. 

 

Are you talking about the balloon in the left, don't you?

 

[Nonesuch]

Whether the teams run with 13", 15" or 18" seems immaterial at best. Let the teams and tyre manufacturer decide on an individual basis what they think works best for them.

 

Not that that is likely to happen in current F1, of course.

[Fastcake]

Whether the teams run with 13", 15" or 18" seems immaterial at best. Let the teams and tyre manufacturer decide on an individual basis what they think works best for them.

 

Not that that is likely to happen in current F1, of course.

 

I can't see any tyre manufacturer wanting to provide multiple different tyre sizes, even if it was allowed. It would be far too much of a hassle.

[Boing 2]

Road acrs don't run big rims because they're better tyres they run them for cosmetic reasons. Cars have grown tremendously in the last 30 years and the wheels needed to grow to remain in proportion to the body, if they don't the car looks bloated.

 

On a road car the tyre is in the shadow of the wheel well so it tends to disappear, with the rim itself taking prominence, therfore the rim is enlarged to stay in proportion with the car while the tyre is minimised.

 

An F1 car has much less mass to balance visually and because the wheel is out in the open it's the whole mass of wheel and tyre that registers visually and that must balance the mass of the car. In fact, with a lower profile tyre and bigger, open, wheel rim, the visual mass of the wheel/tyre combination is reduced, leading to the spindly wagon wheel appearance some dislike. On a single seater it may be better, visually, to have a higher tyre profile to keep a visual mass that is in balance with the car.

[TF110]

With increased diameter should come increased width. 13" up front, 16-18" in the rear imo.

[theblackangus]

That looks ridiculous. I will not be watching this pathetic excuse of a racing car should they go ahead with it. 

 

Sounds like you want a fashion parade and not racing....

 

A fast car is a beautiful car, however it looks. 

 

Looks of the cars are the last thing that needs to be worried about at the moment.

Edited by theblackangus, 23 May 2015 - 21:59.

[FPV GTHO]

For those thining that changing to larger rims would require extra spending in the suspension I think you are wrong.

 

As the current tyre sidewalls are so high the deflection of the tyre composes much of the suspension travel and makes controlling the suspension tricky. It's why Renault came up with the mass damper and McLaren the inerter.

 

Lots of money is spent to get the suspension to work properly.

 

Aerodynamics would need tweeking too, as even the change from Bridgestone to Pirelli caused prblems due to the different shape and characteristics of the new tyres.

Year on year, i imagine it would be cheaper. But they would need to change alot of the systems theyre currently running which would be expensive.

[MattPete]

Edited by MattPete, 24 May 2015 - 00:31.

[aguri]

There are some pretty valid arguments for changing to 18's:

- There will not be a performance loss

- It will shake up the grid a bit in terms of suspension design/development

- More road relevant for tyre suppliers

- More road relevant for wheel suppliers.

 

Fact of the matter is once F1 goes to 18's, ferrari, mclaren et al will start putting out cars with wheels that look exactly the same as the F1 car. That is a huge selling point and one that should be encouraged.

 

18, 15, 13 are all just arbitrary numbers in any cases. 

[V8 Fireworks]

An F1 car has much less mass to balance visually and because the wheel is out in the open it's the whole mass of wheel and tyre that registers visually and that must balance the mass of the car. In fact, with a lower profile tyre and bigger, open, wheel rim, the visual mass of the wheel/tyre combination is reduced, leading to the spindly wagon wheel appearance some dislike. On a single seater it may be better, visually, to have a higher tyre profile to keep a visual mass that is in balance with the car.

 

So what about Indy Lights 

They didn't get your memo 

 

They have big wheels and they look great -> so your argument is just wrong

 

 

[Boing 2]

So what about Indy Lights 

They didn't get your memo 

 

They have big wheels and they look great -> so your argument is just wrong

 

 

 

 

 

It looks alright, this looks great.

 

 

[chipmcdonald]

The rear wheel/tire on the GP2 car doesn't look bad, but the front is horrid.

 

Subjective opinion aside, if you watch the video with Martin Brundle driving it, those gargantuan wagon wheels obscure the driver's view a good bit.  Actually, they're so large drivers running alongside trying to get their sight line across another car might have problems.

 

Horrible, and by the way, the rim size is just a fashion statement - it has nothing to do with technology or being "new".  The GP2 show car looks like a Formula Ford with blown up wheels, or a Caterham suspension with a GP2 chassis stuck on it.

 

ANOTHER POINT:

 

Stop referencing that Faux Ferrari picture.  THE PROPORTIONS ARE NOT THE SAME.  Design does not work that way!  Not only that, but note the cockpit (with a canopy...) infers the driver would be sitting higher.  As shown in the Brundle clip, drivers are going to hate having more of their sight line obscured.

 

FUgly.

 

[Redback]

Copied from the 2017 rules thread...

 

inox, on 25 May 2015 - 05:02, said:

Apparently so, this article says 4kg more for each tyre:

http://www.f1fanatic...nch-wheel-test/

 

If that is the case, I don't want them. They should be focusing on making the cars lighter, not heavier.

That 4kg increase was only for the test wheel and the profile of the tyre itself will be different, so sight-lines from the cockpit shouldn't be an issue.

 

An optimised 18" wheel/tyre combination would weigh basically the same as the existing combo.  (slightly more metal, slightly less rubber)

 

The advantage (as has been said many times) is that a lower profile tyre offers less sidewall and contact patch distortion under load and instead of the tyre being a major undamped and uncontrolled part of the suspension system, it becomes more predictable in its behaviour and moves the engineering emphasis to suspension components (dampers, torsion bars, etc).

 

By doing so, engineers achieve greater levels of control over chassis movement, more mechanical grip and more consistent modelling for the effects of rotation-induced distortion, aero-load and temperature windows.

 

Yes, they'll need to redesign the suspension systems with more travel and potentially different geometry because the actual suspension will have to do the suspending, rather than ridiculously large, gas filled rubber balloons bouncing all over the place.

 

I suspect the suspension engineers would relish the chance to take all that uncontrolled compliance and distortion out of the equation.

 

At the end of the day, tyre manufacturers don't participate in motor racing for some altruistic commitment to competition.  They're there for marketing.  If F1 insist on specifying anachronistic sub-standard tyre technology, then attracting the participation of tyre manufacturers will become increasingly difficult.

 

Moving to 18" wheels and lower profile tyres would make F1 more attractive to the tyre companies, as well as improving the performance of the cars through better suspension engineering and reducing (in the long term) costs associated with trying to accurately model, floppy, air-filled bags of rubber spinning at 2,000+ rpm.

 

Aesthetics are subject to personal opinion.  I'm not the sole arbiter of what's attractive or ugly and nor is anyone else on this forum, but in terms of engineering precision, mechanical grip and overall car performance, 18" wheels are a significant step forward.

 

For those who don't like the look, - get over it.  You'll get used to it.

 

...and for those who've said they won't watch F1 if they change to 18" wheels, I can only say that your appreciation of motor sport is at best shallow, and you probably won't be missed.