2635 replies to this topic

[Collombin]

Re Phil Hill, if I was on the right lines then I thought 1961 French GP might be his entry, but it seems he did finish but out of the points.

Watson at Zolder could have been overlooked if lap charts were used, as the incident occurred on the first lap.

[F1Frog]

Crashed (or span into retirement) from the lead? That covers Monaco, I can see them all in my head! And kudos for not including Ascari on the Monaco list, some books get that wrong.

This is exactly right, well done! Sorry I forgot John Watson and Tom Pryce, I constructed this list mostly from memory and then skimmed through Formula 1 all the races to see if it reminded me of any more, and while it helped me get Pironi in Monaco 1980 which I had forgotten, I still missed Watson in Zolder 1977 which I have no memory of, and didn’t see probably because of lap charts as you say. And was Pryce in Silverstone 1975? I have a vague memory of this but wasn’t reminded while doing it and may be wrong. Also I did mean Reims 1961 for Phil Hill, for some reason I thought he retired from the spin. I guess he might as well have retired.

Either way, thanks for answering the question, sorry for the mistakes, and over to Collombin for the next one.

[Ivanhoe]

Think Verstappen should be on the list as well for Silverstone 2021.

[F1Frog]

Think Verstappen should be on the list as well for Silverstone 2021.

No because he collided with another car. They had to crash out entirely on their own (I didn’t include backmarker collisions either, although Villeneuve at Long Beach 1978 seemed to lose it by himself and then hit a backmarker so I included that).

[Ivanhoe]

No because he collided with another car. They had to crash out entirely on their own (I didn’t include backmarker collisions either, although Villeneuve at Long Beach 1978 seemed to lose it by himself and then hit a backmarker so I included that).

Yeah, hadn’t thought that through very well, the list would be much longer…

[PlatenGlass]

What were the 3 each for Prost and Senna? And which year was Schumacher's Monaco?

Edit - I think I have the 3 Prosts: Monaco 1982, Austria 1984, Brazil 1993.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 11 December 2023 - 10:38.

[Collombin]

They had to crash out entirely on their own

Oh. You're ok with Watson then, he got marioed up the chuff.

Warwick led in Dallas I suppose, for about 0.1 seconds!

I have a question idea in mind, just need to think of how to word it. It's not as good as yours.

Edited by Collombin, 11 December 2023 - 10:12.

[F1Frog]

What were the 3 each for Prost and Senna? And which year was Schumacher's Monaco?

Prost spun out in Monaco 1982, clipped the wall in Dallas 1984, and aquaplaned off in Interlagos 1993.

Senna crashed at Portier in Monaco 1988, spun off in Adelaide 1990. The third was Imola 1994 which some might disagree with as it may have been a car failure but isn’t known. But I included it as he hit enough backmarkers while leading for it not to be bad luck so I thought 3 was more representative of his career.

Schumacher hit the wall in Monaco 1996. The other was Montreal 1999.

[PlatenGlass]

Prost spun out in Monaco 1982, clipped the wall in Dallas 1984, and aquaplaned off in Interlagos 1993.

Senna crashed at Portier in Monaco 1988, spun off in Adelaide 1990. The third was Imola 1994 which some might disagree with as it may have been a car failure but isn’t known. But I included it as he hit enough backmarkers while leading for it not to be bad luck so I thought 3 was more representative of his career.

Schumacher hit the wall in Monaco 1996. The other was Montreal 1999.

Thanks. I put Austria 1984 for Prost in my edit but actually I don't think he was leading (behind Piquet).

I wondered if there was another Schumacher Monaco one because Hill was ahead in 1996!

[Collombin]

There was also Monza 1989 for Senna, which the tifosi seemed to enjoy. Though might have been caused by oil leaking?

I was confused initially by Brabham at Monaco missing, but he did get going again to finish 2nd.

Edited by Collombin, 11 December 2023 - 10:57.

[PlatenGlass]

There was also Monza 1989 for Senna, which the tifosi seemed to enjoy. Though might have been caused by oil leaking?

Australia 1990 was also gearbox, but he also spun out of Silverstone 1989 with gearbox problems.

[Collombin]

I have a ranked list of about 50 drivers that I am looking at now. (I don't and I'm not, but play along).

A pair of Lotus teammates are very high on the list.

Getting on to the list is generally a very good thing, but getting onto it and then coming off is even better. Lewis was never on it though, and is just fine with that.

Drivers can only join or leave the list during their active WDC careers, if you're retired and on the list then you're staying on it.

The first driver to make the list was Fagioli. He is still on it.

Six active (=raced F1 in 2023) drivers are on it. Being active, they may come off it at some point though.

Max was on it for quite a while but then came off. I don't know who had the longest temporary appearance on the list, but he must be a contender. Hawthorn would be another.

Who sits atop the list?

[milestone 11]

I looked at Frog's question whilst drunk as a skunk at 11 last night and thought nah, too simple.

[PlatenGlass]

Does being on top of the list mean you've been there for the longest (continuous?) time?

[Collombin]

Does being on top of the list mean you've been there for the longest (continuous?) time?

No, it means you are the most successful driver on the list.

Re the 2 Lotus teammates thing, I should clarify that only one of them joined the list whilst driving a Lotus, and they were already both on the list before becoming teammates.

[F1Frog]

Thanks. I put Austria 1984 for Prost in my edit but actually I don't think he was leading (behind Piquet).

I wondered if there was another Schumacher Monaco one because Hill was ahead in 1996!

 

Oops, you are right. Michael Schumacher should be down to one then which actually surprises me because he seemed to make unforced errors quite often. Sorry for the mistake And I thought Adelaide 1990 was Senna's mistake but perhaps it was a gearbox problem. I suppose if we have all these possible ones for Senna then hopefully exactly three of them do fit the criteria, even if I don't know which!

[Ivanhoe]

Getting on to the list is generally a very good thing, but getting onto it and then coming off is even better. Lewis was never on it though, and is just fine with that.

Once off the list you cannot get back on it? Can Lewis still join the list?

[DeKnyff]

Drivers who DNF'd their home races?

 

Reutemann should be there, then.

[Collombin]

Once off the list you cannot get back on it? Can Lewis still join the list?

Once off the list you stay off. Lewis can never get on to the list.

[eab]

Winning before pole-ing?

[Collombin]

Winning before pole-ing?

Reasonable enough guess but no. Also remember that the answer I'm looking for is the driver not the rationale.

[F1Frog]

Might Felipe Massa come off the list?

[PlatenGlass]

No, it means you are the most successful driver on the list.

Most successful by the criteria that get you on the list? So it's not just a binary thing.

[Collombin]

Might Felipe Massa come off the list?

He is already off the list, and no legal twattiness will change that.

[Collombin]

Most successful by the criteria that get you on the list?

Yes.

[F1Frog]

My guess is Rubens Barrichello.

[Collombin]

My guess is Rubens Barrichello.

🤙 Spot on. Helpful timing too, I want some lunch.

Over to you.

[Ivanhoe]

Can we get the rationale please? 

[F1Frog]

Unless it was a total fluke, I think it is most race wins without ever leading the championship. The Lotus teammates are Ronnie Peterson and Jacky Ickx. Hamilton led the championship before his first win. Hawthorn won in 1953 and didn’t lead the title until 1958, Verstappen the same with 2016 and 2021.

[Collombin]

You got it!

[F1Frog]

Okay, here is my much easier question. Who is the ??

 

John Watson

Rene Arnoux

Eddie Cheever

Niki Lauda

Keke Rosberg

Stefan Johansson

Ayrton Senna

Nigel Mansell

Jean Alesi

??

[Collombin]

Anyone relying solely on the F1 Stats website would query why Stefan Bellof is missing from this list! No idea where they got him from.

[StevoCBR]

Okay, here is my much easier question. Who is the ??

 

John Watson

Rene Arnoux

Eddie Cheever

Niki Lauda

Keke Rosberg

Stefan Johansson

Ayrton Senna

Nigel Mansell

Jean Alesi

??

Damon Hill?  Alain Prost F1 team mates?

Edited by StevoCBR, 11 December 2023 - 16:09.

[Myrvold]

Prost spun out in Monaco 1982, clipped the wall in Dallas 1984, and aquaplaned off in Interlagos 1993.

Senna crashed at Portier in Monaco 1988, spun off in Adelaide 1990. The third was Imola 1994 which some might disagree with as it may have been a car failure but isn’t known. But I included it as he hit enough backmarkers while leading for it not to be bad luck so I thought 3 was more representative of his career.

Schumacher hit the wall in Monaco 1996. The other was Montreal 1999.

When did Phil Hill crash out from the lead?
I also see that I misunderstood the "certain GP" thing.

[F1Frog]

When did Phil Hill crash out from the lead?
I also see that I misunderstood the "certain GP" thing.

Reims 1961 he spun off and stalled the engine, although I didn’t realise he did eventually get going again so probably shouldn’t have counted it.

[F1Frog]

Damon Hill? Alain Prost F1 team mates?

Correct, you take the next question!