43 replies to this topic

[kenkip]

Hi people.So in another forum there was a topic discussing Daniel Ricciardo's contract.Apparently he is paid peanuts by Redbull due to some loan  he has to pay.What interested me was the amount Redbull pay as winning bonuses,some figures say as much as one Milliion dollars a race win.

I found this insane to say the least,considering the amount of podiums,poles and wins Seb had last season,might he have been the highest paid driver,not Lewis/Alonso as we are meant to believe?

[Jimisgod]

That sounds pretty awful, a loan to race for RBR?

Maybe Red Bull support is the poisoned chalice. I wonder if less successful young drivers are saddled with debt?

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

So, Mateschitz and Marko fund the driver's early career and all the way up to F1. And in exchange their return on the investment is brand exposure and personal sponsorship revenue?

[Farhannn15]

That sounds pretty awful, a loan to race for RBR?

Maybe Red Bull support is the poisoned chalice. I wonder if less successful young drivers are saddled with debt?

Even though if it is true, it's a pretty sorry state, for talented drivers like Daniel who have a long future ahead of them, i.e a driver with a career of over 10 years, it's a short term pain for a long term gain

[Rinehart]

I doubt when RBR offered Ric Webbers seat last winter, that the salary on offer was a stumbling block...

[joshb]

Hi people.So in another forum there was a topic discussing Daniel Ricciardo's contract.Apparently he is paid peanuts by Redbull due to some loan  he has to pay.What interested me was the amount Redbull pay as winning bonuses,some figures say as much as one Milliion dollars a race win.

I found this insane to say the least,considering the amount of podiums,poles and wins Seb had last season,might he have been the highest paid driver,not Lewis/Alonso as we are meant to believe?

I thought Seb's base salary was relatively low, but he earned big win/title bonuses which put him close to what HAM/ALO/RAI were earning

[Thomas99]

Im sure Ricciardo would be on peanuts this year, but next year is when he will get a big pay rise. Honestly when the team pay your living expenses money really means nothing.

[kenkip]

I thought Seb's base salary was relatively low, but he earned big win/title bonuses which put him close to what HAM/ALO/RAI were earning

I read his base pay was around the 12 million region,so inclusive of podiums,wins poles and points last year I think he may have blasted past the 30 million mark in earnings.

[kenkip]

That sounds pretty awful, a loan to race for RBR?

Maybe Red Bull support is the poisoned chalice. I wonder if less successful young drivers are saddled with debt?

They were calling it a HESC loan,ayone know what that stands for?

[onemoresolo]

They were calling it a HESC loan,ayone know what that stands for?

 

They're a company that do student and tuition fee loans I believe (quick Google).

 

So basically, it seems Red Bull loan him money to cover his training, development and, presumably, sponsorship to get drivers in lower formulae, which he then pays back from his salary when he gets an F1 seat.

 

Seems fair enough to be honest, if my interpretation is right.

Edited by onemoresolo, 31 July 2014 - 09:18.

[kenkip]

Im sure Ricciardo would be on peanuts this year, but next year is when he will get a big pay rise. Honestly when the team pay your living expenses money really means nothing.

No,in the Aussies abroad feature done a few years ago Dan said that Redbull only paid his entry fee for  racing in the formula he was on, all other living costs he had to sort out himself.

Thomas99 you should watch that feature its a great insight into Dan before the glamour!

[goingthedistance]

I was the original poster on the issue. I'm not sure it's a literal debt, Australians know that a HECS debt is something we take out from the government to pay our University tuition and a percentage is deducted from our salary to pay it back once we start working. The phrase may be being used loosely by Dan's dad, but the concept is meaningful, Dan must pay his dues. Here is the full quote with context (article is background on Dan post his Canada win):

RICCIARDO still phones his old mates when he lands in Perth between seasons. They head to the beach or go camping. He gets to spend the downtime with girlfriend Jemma Boskovich. They’ve been together since high school.

It’s a near-normal existence for a kid who insists that he never pursued a career in F1 for the glamour.

“He just loves the cars and the competition,” Mr Ricciardo said. “Everything else that goes with it is just secondary.’’

His apartment in Monaco is squashy. Contrary to popular belief, says his dad, there are few frills yet for this champion racer. The one-bedroom flat in the tax haven is barely wide enough to swing a cat.

“He has quite the HECS fee to pay back to Red Bull,” Mr Ricciardo said. But he acknowledges that their investment is starting to pay off in plenty of other ways.

http://www.adelaiden...a61e0c316d22f2a

Edited by goingthedistance, 31 July 2014 - 09:38.

[zepunishment]

They're a company that do student and tuition fee loans I believe (quick Google).

 

So basically, it seems Red Bull loan him money to cover his training, development and, presumably, sponsorship to get drivers in lower formulae, which he then pays back from his salary when he gets an F1 seat.

 

Seems fair enough to be honest, if my interpretation is right.

 

 

A lot of drivers have agreements like that, I know there have been a few deals like that with outside investors in recent times. I'll fund your drives in lower formulas, and if you hit it big, you owe me 10% - that sort of thing.

[InvertedLift]

Just for background for those who may be interested:

The way HECS works is that any Australian citizen (maybe resident too) that enrolls in an undergraduate degree course has the option to defer all the fees for the course to a government loan. It means that any Aussie who fits the entry requirements for the course has the opportunity to pursue further education if they desire. When you start earning over the threshold amount (currently ~$50,000AUD per annum I think) the government deducts a small percentage of your pay until the loan is repaid. The loan is interest free but is indexed each year by CPI.

[GhostR]

Yeah. Suspect a Euro journalist has got the wrong end of the stick to be honest. Misinterpretation of what Riccardo senior meant caused by lack of knowledge about the analogy being drawn.

From memory Vettel was on peanuts originally as well, as was Webber as far as base salary went. The big biccies are earned via results bonuses when you're a Red Bull driver. I'm sure Dan's got a few Anzac's and Tim Tams in his jar waiting for the end of the season

[Jimisgod]

I hope they scaled the pay for difficulty. A win in 2014 RBR is a bit harder than 2013.

[bourbon]

I read his base pay was around the 12 million region,so inclusive of podiums,wins poles and points last year I think he may have blasted past the 30 million mark in earnings.

 

His base salary was widely reported to be 16 million at the start of his latest contract - extensions might be higher.  Before things went completely silent, an ex-driver at Red Bull reported that the bonuses were about 500k - not sure if there are other performance incentive bonuses as well (and I have no proof he was accurate).  Didi himself said that Seb got a 3 million dollar bonus for winning the championship in 2010, plus his RB car - and a similar deal in 2011.  We didn't hear anything after that, but you have to figure the ensuing years are along the same lines, with other items replacing the car.  Plus there is an additional bonus the whole team gets for the constructors according to Didi.  So it gives the RBR drivers a top car salary  - and I would say contrary to some reports, Seb's salary likely met or exceeded the other top drivers.

 

But the RBR guys get huge bonuses - so since Dan has already won 2 races, he may have paid off - or made good headway - into his loan.

[reynard883]

They're a company that do student and tuition fee loans I believe (quick Google).

 

So basically, it seems Red Bull loan him money to cover his training, development and, presumably, sponsorship to get drivers in lower formulae, which he then pays back from his salary when he gets an F1 seat.

 

Seems fair enough to be honest, if my interpretation is right.

I agree.  I wish I could get that kind of support!

[BRG]

If so much of Seb's income was based on success bonuses, it is hardly surprising that he has a face like a smacked bum this year.

[bourbon]

If so much of Seb's income was based on success bonuses, it is hardly surprising that he has a face like a smacked bum this year.

 

yeah because 16+ million plus sponsorship deals isn't enough to gas up the car for the week...

[Fastcake]

yeah because 16+ million plus sponsorship deals isn't enough to gas up the car for the week...

 

Well when Alonso is still earning more than you with a worse car and two fewer titles, Vettel might be regretting his previous round of contract negotiation.

[Juan Kerr]

Daniel Ricciardo will get paid much more when he's driving for Ferrari

[BCM]

I'd gladly take a chance to get to F1 now and pay you back the money it took to get there later!

 

I've read stories of others doing the same sorts of things. Webber borrowed money from David Campese (australian rugby star) at one point to fund his journey into F1 and I believe that a lot of Finns in both F1 and the WRC were funded by a guy who made it his "business" to invest in driving talent on the basis that they paid him back once they made it.

[garagetinkerer]

Well when Alonso is still earning more than you with a worse car and two fewer titles, Vettel might be regretting his previous round of contract negotiation.

In past when bigger pay cheques were dangled in front of him, Vettel didn't care much really. So you have got to ask, does he really care what others are paid? I don't think it matters to him what others are getting paid, as long as he wins, and i think he said something to such effect before, that he'd rather have more wins, than a bigger cheque.

 

I hope they scaled the pay for difficulty. A win in 2014 RBR is a bit harder than 2013.

Do tell us all why the other driver never won even a single race last year? Something besides, Webber's too old and not very good, which is old and lame really. By the way, all through last year, RBR scored only five 1-2's. On the other hand, Mercedes already have had 6 and would have been more if not for reliability related issues. Surely you would support a pay cut for those two Mercedes drivers as well?

[bourbon]

I hope they scaled the pay for difficulty. A win in 2014 RBR is a bit harder than 2013.

 

What are you talking about?  RBR + Vettel combination achieved the highest mastery of what was a very complicated and difficult formula - clearly - seeing as no other driver/car combo could match him over time.  That was worth all the millions in the world to Didi.  If you go to Red Bull, what F1 related photos do you think you'd see plastered all over the walls?  First win, First pole, (STRF) and First win First pole (Red Bull) First Championship, First Constructors, Second Championship....etc. and who is in all of those photos?  It was Didi's dream come true.  I think Sebastian's checks and bonus checks are some of the easiest he's ever written.

 

Wins are not easy to come by now either with the powerless PU Renault has saddled them with and Merc running away with it.  But luck has swung their way twice so far and Dan will reap the rewards for that in bonus pay.

 

 

Daniel Ricciardo will get paid much more when he's driving for Ferrari

 

If Vettel goes to Ferrari, he would be making equivalent pay or perhaps more; they tend to get very generous if you win titles for them.

Edited by bourbon, 02 August 2014 - 05:14.

[Thomas99]

 

 

Wins are not easy to come by now either with the powerless PU Renault has saddled them with and Merc running away with it.  But luck has swung their way twice so far and Dan will reap the rewards for that in bonus pay.

 

 

Its funny how you associate winning 4 titles in dominant cars as 'evidence of skill' but yet winning 2 races in a car that is not the fastest is 'luck'.

Edited by Thomas99, 02 August 2014 - 05:27.

[garagetinkerer]

Its funny how you associate winning 4 titles in dominant cars as 'evidence of skill' but yet winning 2 races in a car that is not the fastest is 'luck'.

Do you sincerely think RBR was as fast,or faster than Mercedes on both of those instances? Nothing to take away from Ricciardo's accomplishments, but luck did swing his way at Canada, where the team asked Vettel to not attack Ricciardo and wait for tyres to come into play. Which we know, didn't really work very well for Vettel. Similarly, at Hungary, ahem, SC took out Rosberg out of play and there's no other way to say, that was luck too. Again, he did make most of his opportunities, so nothing to fault him, and i think that is what Bourbon was hinting at too.

 

I personally don't know how much sleep one loses when one is running handicapped most race weekends. It is more annoying than something which will make you look inwards. You do know that Vettel's been running his 4th of almost everything for a couple of races and some for more? Yes, that will make a difference in all likeliness in terms of how much team allows Vettel to push. Or, you could look at penalties, and some carry over to next race to. For what it is worth, Ricciardo's car has been so far the most reliable Renault car, while Vettel's been the driver with most car related issues at the sharp end of the grid. Surely you don't think it is all Vettel's fault, or do you?

[Thomas99]

Do you sincerely think RBR was as fast,or faster than Mercedes on both of those instances? Nothing to take away from Ricciardo's accomplishments, but luck did swing his way at Canada, where the team asked Vettel to not attack Ricciardo and wait for tyres to come into play. Which we know, didn't really work very well for Vettel. Similarly, at Hungary, ahem, SC took out Rosberg out of play and there's no other way to say, that was luck too. Again, he did make most of his opportunities, so nothing to fault him, and i think that is what Bourbon was hinting at too.

 

I personally don't know how much sleep one loses when one is running handicapped most race weekends. It is more annoying than something which will make you look inwards. You do know that Vettel's been running his 4th of almost everything for a couple of races and some for more? Yes, that will make a difference in all likeliness in terms of how much team allows Vettel to push. Or, you could look at penalties, and some carry over to next race to. For what it is worth, Ricciardo's car has been so far the most reliable Renault car, while Vettel's been the driver with most car related issues at the sharp end of the grid. Surely you don't think it is all Vettel's fault, or do you?

 

When did I say anything about Vettel's performances this year? I merely said Bourbon accredits Vettel's performances of the last 4 years as skill, when in reality they are as much luck as Daniel was given this year. You can't really compare what happened in past to what happened this year either as Daniel wasn't a Red Bull driver before Melbourne, what Seb done prior to him joining the team has no reflection on his ability.

[bourbon]

According to newsau.com , Business Book GP2014  gave the following values for driver salaries this season.  I wonder how accurate these are.  If accurate, the OP is further underscored as these would be before sponsor money.

 

2014 FORMULA 1 DRIVER SALARIES

1. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull): $31.7 million

2. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari): $31.7m

3. Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari): $31.7m

4. Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes): $28.8m

5. Jenson Button (McLaren): $23.1m

6. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes): $17.3m

7. Felipe Massa (Williams): $5.8m

8. Nico Hulkenberg (Force India): $5.8m

9. Romain Grosjean (Lotus): $4.3m

10. Pastor Maldonado (Lotus): $4.3m

11. Sergio Perez (Force India): $4.3m

12. Adrian Sutil (Sauber): $2.9m

13. Kevin Magnussen (McLaren): $1.44m

14. Valtteri Bottas (Williams): $1.44m

15. Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull): $1.1m

16. Jean-Eric Vergne (Toro Rosso): $1.1m

17. Jules Bianchi (Marussia): $720,000

18. Esteban Gutierrez (Sauber): $577,000

19. Daniil Kvyat (Toro Rosso): $360,000

20. Max Chilton (Marussia): $290,000

21. Kamui Kobayashi (Caterham): $216,000

22. Marcus Ericsson (Caterham): $216,000

Edited by bourbon, 14 August 2014 - 20:59.

[scheivlak]

So suddenly no performance bonuses anymore and anywhere at all?

 

Or maybe I have a rather simplistic understanding of the word "value"?

[krapmeister]

I believe these are supposed to be based salaries, so performance bonuses were not taken into account either - I hope so anyway for Ricciardo's sake

[bourbon]

If it is correct, Sebastian may have negotiated a straight salary based on the uncertainty associated with the new regs.  Seems I recall that he negotiated 2014 and 2015 as separate 1 year extensions, so it is possible.

 

I have to imagine Ricciardo is still on the bonus system, so should be more in the green than what is shown there. 

Edited by bourbon, 14 August 2014 - 23:31.

[kosmos]

According to newsau.com , Business Book GP2014  gave the following values for driver salaries this season.  I wonder how accurate these are.  If accurate, the OP is further underscored as these would be before sponsor money.

 

2014 FORMULA 1 DRIVER SALARIES

1. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull): $31.7 million

2. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari): $31.7m

3. Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari): $31.7m

4. Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes): $28.8m

5. Jenson Button (McLaren): $23.1m

6. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes): $17.3m

7. Felipe Massa (Williams): $5.8m

8. Nico Hulkenberg (Force India): $5.8m

9. Romain Grosjean (Lotus): $4.3m

10. Pastor Maldonado (Lotus): $4.3m

11. Sergio Perez (Force India): $4.3m

12. Adrian Sutil (Sauber): $2.9m

13. Kevin Magnussen (McLaren): $1.44m

14. Valtteri Bottas (Williams): $1.44m

15. Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull): $1.1m

16. Jean-Eric Vergne (Toro Rosso): $1.1m

17. Jules Bianchi (Marussia): $720,000

18. Esteban Gutierrez (Sauber): $577,000

19. Daniil Kvyat (Toro Rosso): $360,000

20. Max Chilton (Marussia): $290,000

21. Kamui Kobayashi (Caterham): $216,000

22. Marcus Ericsson (Caterham): $216,000

 

different figures here: http://www.auto-moto...14-8499738.html

 

 

I reallly don't believe a single word about salaries. I'm pretty sure this is confidential info and the teams will never tell to the press.

[blub]

We have no idea what the real numbers are for driver payments or team budgets. There is no incentive on anyones part for the real numbers to enter the public arena, NONE. If you read any of the articles about this stuff at no point is anyone who knows the number ever quoted no manager, no lawyer, no team principle, no sponsor, no-one, NEVER!

This is one of those perennial made up stores, its Summer holiday season isn’t it? So, there you go,  a real/made up story just like you wanted. I well remember when spreadsheets entered into the business world, it was discovered that if numbers were presented off of a spreadsheet EVERYONE I mean EVERYONE believed them no matter how blatantly wrong they were. This ever-present story always reminds me of the spreadsheet phenomena of the 1980’s. Motor sport is entertainment, what the hell, go ahead believe it all, its not like it going to hurt anyone.

The news media is doing a fine job selling the sport by inventing numbers and if web site X creates a story it allows all the web sites to republish it, creating a cascade of stories taken as a whole seeming to create a known fact, is all BS. In the real world there are some things we just will never know, like how much drivers make in F1, oh well...

As I have said before, we will know what a drivers favorite sexual position is before we know how much they make. Money is the final sacred thing our world.

[bourbon]

We have no idea what the real numbers are for driver payments or team budgets. There is no incentive on anyones part for the real numbers to enter the public arena, NONE. If you read any of the articles about this stuff at no point is anyone who knows the number ever quoted no manager, no lawyer, no team principle, no sponsor, no-one, NEVER!

This is one of those perennial made up stores, its Summer holiday season isn’t it? So, there you go,  a real/made up story just like you wanted. I well remember when spreadsheets entered into the business world, it was discovered that if numbers were presented off of a spreadsheet EVERYONE I mean EVERYONE believed them no matter how blatantly wrong they were. This ever-present story always reminds me of the spreadsheet phenomena of the 1980’s. Motor sport is entertainment, what the hell, go ahead believe it all, its not like it going to hurt anyone.

The news media is doing a fine job selling the sport by inventing numbers and if web site X creates a story it allows all the web sites to republish it, creating a cascade of stories taken as a whole seeming to create a known fact, is all BS. In the real world there are some things we just will never know, like how much drivers make in F1, oh well...

As I have said before, we will know what a drivers favorite sexual position is before we know how much they make. Money is the final sacred thing our world.

 

It may not be accurate, but it isn't a media story for the break, it was in a published book - see the link above.

[LuckyStrike1]

That sounds pretty awful, a loan to race for RBR?

Maybe Red Bull support is the poisoned chalice. I wonder if less successful young drivers are saddled with debt?

 

 

Nothing particular for Red Bull. It's very common in motorsport on many levels and there are a lot of drivers, both in F1 but also who never reached F1, who are now saddled with "debt" to pay off from financial support of their racing from various investors/sponsors. So nothing strange about that, it's one of the biggest challenges for drivers wishing to be active full time in motorsport. 

[Ducks]

Was there talk of 1million per race win? 13million in bouns.

[bourbon]

Was there talk of 1million per race win? 13million in bouns.

 

I think there was talk of 1/2 million, but the truth is, nobody knows.  We just know that they had "a bonus system with significantly high bonus amounts" in 2009 because DC confirmed it.  Because reported base salaries were low the next few years, it was assumed they remained on that system through 2013.  If the new reports are correct, I'd opine they are no longer on that system    But who knows, we are just speculating.  The figures in the book may be completely wrong.

Edited by bourbon, 15 August 2014 - 11:28.

[aditya-now]

 

 

Do tell us all why the other driver never won even a single race last year? Something besides, Webber's too old and not very good, which is old and lame really. By the way, all through last year, RBR scored only five 1-2's. On the other hand, Mercedes already have had 6 and would have been more if not for reliability related issues. Surely you would support a pay cut for those two Mercedes drivers as well?

 

I thought the same thing about Vettel, that you mentioned about Webber. Seb didn't win a single race this year, contrary to his team mate. Vettel is too old and not very good, which is old and lame really.

 

RBR scored no 1-2 this year so far....

[thesham01]

What are you talking about?  RBR + Vettel combination achieved the highest mastery of what was a very complicated and difficult formula - clearly - seeing as no other driver/car combo could match him over time.  That was worth all the millions in the world to Didi.  If you go to Red Bull, what F1 related photos do you think you'd see plastered all over the walls?  First win, First pole, (STRF) and First win First pole (Red Bull) First Championship, First Constructors, Second Championship....etc. and who is in all of those photos?  It was Didi's dream come true.  I think Sebastian's checks and bonus checks are some of the easiest he's ever written.

 

Wins are not easy to come by now either with the powerless PU Renault has saddled them with and Merc running away with it.  But luck has swung their way twice so far and Dan will reap the rewards for that in bonus pay.

 

 

 

If Vettel goes to Ferrari, he would be making equivalent pay or perhaps more; they tend to get very generous if you win titles for them.

 

So it's "the highest mastery of what was a very complicated and difficult formula" when Vettel does it, but "luck" when Ricciardo does it?

[aditya-now]

So it's "the highest mastery of what was a very complicated and difficult formula" when Vettel does it, but "luck" when Ricciardo does it?

 

Exactly what I thought. Some lines of thought are simply amazing!

[Risil]

I hope they scaled the pay for difficulty. A win in 2014 RBR is a bit harder than 2013.

 

Tell that to Mark Webber!

[aditya-now]

Tell that to Mark Webber!

 

Well, you know, Webber was worn out back then already, so he could not extract any wins from the car anymore.

Now it is Vettels turn. No other than Christian Horner explained, that Vettel is "worn out" and has therefore difficulties winning.

 

http://www.gptoday.c...ck_says_Horner/

[bourbon]

So it's "the highest mastery of what was a very complicated and difficult formula" when Vettel does it, but "luck" when Ricciardo does it?

 

 

Exactly what I thought. Some lines of thought are simply amazing!

 

 

What are you on about?  Those are obviously completely separate ideas.  Seb did that in the last era when Dan was in STRF and Dan won in this era and was lucky because both Mercs were out of contention for the win.   I have no idea how you confused these two ideas, but hopefully you are sorted now.   Since it is OT, let's hope so.

Edited by bourbon, 16 August 2014 - 05:03.