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Rumor: Corvette C8 will trow their brand, history and DNA in the trash?


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#101 Bob Riebe

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 04:10

What is odd or stupid about using a V10 in a car that could only be called a game-changer. At a time when north American "muscle" cars were anything but. F1 was still running V10s at that point.

They sound like a washing machine on spin cycle and the uniqueness quotient wears off quickly.

It changed no game but kept Dodge in the ball game.



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#102 Fat Boy

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 04:57

I agree that the sound of a Viper is 'off', but at least it's aggressive and different isn't bad. I don't think the Pratt and Miller Vette's really sounded all that great. They always sounded like a fart to me. Just not enough RPM to sound like a race car. The newer (street) Vettes with a little more RPM sound better.

 

In the end, a V-12 sounds better than damned near anything out there. In my book, you just can't beat it. A high-revving V-10 is pretty nice. A 5 liter V-8 of any breed with next to no flywheel, a nasty cam and a flat crank is up my alley as well. Some inline 6's aren't too bad, but that's about the fewest cylinders I'm willing to give the nod too. I love a Formula Ford as much as the next guy, but they don't sound very good.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned a mid-engine 911 Porsche being a problem. I don't recommend looking too closely at the latest GT-E / GTLM.



#103 MatsNorway

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 17:04

Surely you enjoy the sound of a straight five? the touring cars with straight five i think sounds better than the rally versjons.

 

 

Back to V8s mmm tasty engine.


Edited by MatsNorway, 28 October 2014 - 17:07.


#104 Henri Greuter

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 19:21


 

Oh, and someone mentioned a mid-engine 911 Porsche being a problem. I don't recommend looking too closely at the latest GT-E / GTLM.

 

 

I have no problem at all with a rear engined 911 or the Cayman/Boxters. I am actually waiting for the moment when the Cayman is finally appearing in GT racing.

It made my year in 1996 when the 911GT1 wiped the floor with the McLaren F1 at Le Mans and I felt sad when the tables were turned again in 1997.

Nothing but respect for the 911 and some of the wildest derivatives developed for racing. Is there any other car of which you can say that you could find it in the streets and off-springs of it in victory lane in events as varied as Le Mans, the Monte Carlo Rally and Paris Dakar?

And for outright victories too, not only for class/category victories?

 

Henri



#105 BRG

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 20:11

Some inline 6's aren't too bad, but that's about the fewest cylinders I'm willing to give the nod too. I love a Formula Ford as much as the next guy, but they don't sound very good.

You clearly never heard a good four cylinder Cosworth BDA on full song, preferably in a Ford Escort rally car on a forest stage.  Sent shivers up the spine.



#106 mariner

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 00:22

A UK road test of the latest Vette.

 

http://www.autocar.c...tte-c7-stingray



#107 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 08:22

You clearly never heard a good four cylinder Cosworth BDA on full song, preferably in a Ford Escort rally car on a forest stage.  Sent shivers up the spine.

I have. They wake up the chooks!

Far more pleasant in a race car.



#108 saudoso

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 09:01

Surely you enjoy the sound of a straight five? the touring cars with straight five i think sounds better than the rally versjons.

 

 

Drove a straight five for a long while, a 2.4 Fiat Marea. It was really hard to part ways with it.


Edited by saudoso, 29 October 2014 - 09:02.


#109 Fat Boy

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 16:08

You clearly never heard a good four cylinder Cosworth BDA on full song, preferably in a Ford Escort rally car on a forest stage.  Sent shivers up the spine.

 

Well, one of these days I want to get to a track and hear what a real racecar sounds like.



#110 Canuck

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 19:13

There you go again, talking about things you know nothing about, specifically your own preferences.



#111 Magoo

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 14:15

Many say the greatest sound in motorsports was the Matra V12: 

 

 

 

http://www.macsmotor...-the-matra-v12/



#112 Fat Boy

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 17:15

Keep in mind that there is a difference in my mind between sounding powerful and sounding good. A midget 4 cylinder sounds powerful as hell, but, IMO, it's a 'harsh' sounding engine. Similarly, a Volvo race engine sounds a bit uneven and harsh. The old Porsche turbo engines sounded very powerful, but again not particuarly nice (for me).

 

A 12 cylinder engine, it can be a V or flat configuration, sounds very smooth and clean. For whatever reason, and I'm not a musical enough person to describe it well, I find it to be a pleasant sound.

 

The sound of a big American V-8 with a 'too big' camshaft and your normal hot-rod setup is a very nostalgic sound for me. It make me happy, but it doesn't have the same 'sing' to it as a 12. Again, not anything scientific, just my opinion.



#113 Magoo

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 01:09

I know exactly what you mean, FB. For example, the classic 3.0-liter V12 Ferraris of the '50s and '60s have that wonderful tearing canvas sound I can listen to all day, but they don't project big power. On the other hand, the Matra V12 linked above sounds totally badass to me. 

 

I like the Viper V10 at 3/4 throttle. Just driving around normally, the noise and vibration are annoying at best.

 

These are my subjective observations; your mileage may vary. 


Edited by Magoo, 31 October 2014 - 01:09.


#114 Canuck

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 03:38

I admit I was a bit disappointed with the sound of the Viper in stock trim, but it doesn't take away from what it was. In 1994, that car was outrageous as a production car. The Corvette, Camaro (and variants) and Mustang were somewhat sedate, some might say boring in their styling. The Viper made a bold statement. Brash. A sledgehammer. A most American car.

I have developed a love for the big-bore 90' v-twin Ducatis. With a set of aftermarket cans and a motor at full chat, 'tis a glorious sound indeed.

#115 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 07:55

In that period the Viper was probably the most outlandish  US car and engine around. Most American sporties were just starting to get some Mojo back. 

Even the Vette looked a bit overawed by it all!



#116 Fat Boy

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 16:05


These are my subjective observations; your mileage may vary. 

 

I doubt if it does.



#117 Catalina Park

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:56

The engine sound that surprised me the the most was the Bugatti 35B. What a glorious sound they make when being driven hard.

#118 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 12:41

SPIED!!!! 2016 Camaro!

 

 

 

K7rq10.jpg

Further retro look!



#119 mariner

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 16:21

slightly off topic but I m still in New Mexico and driving my rental 4 door Dodge Charger with a V-6, I think it is SO ugly but it has a very good ride and decent handling , and they seem very popul indeed , much more so than any GM full size cars.

 

So nearer to this topic Dodge have just launched a 707 bhp version of the 4 door Charger.Not 700 or 699 but 707 bhp! I think its rather nice that borng old Detroit has out done all the German prestige models with their 550-630 bhp and gone straight to over 700 in a producion car. In IC engine etrms it is also top of the Fiat tree above Ferrari.

 

The launch blurb claims 204 mph butalso  much better a statisitc I truly love - at ful throttle you wil empty the fuel tank in 13 minutes!

 

What a great new statistic to replace Nordsring times " well its lousy round the 'ring but I can empty my tank faster acros Arizona than you can".



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#120 mariner

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 16:23

slightly off topic but I m still in New Mexico and driving my rental 4 door Dodge Charger with a V-6, I think it is SO ugly but it has a very good ride and decent handling , and they seem very popular indeed , much more so than any GM full size cars.

 

So nearer to this topic Dodge have just launched a 707 bhp version of the 4 door Charger.Not 700 or 699 but 707 bhp! I think its rather nice that borng old Detroit has out done all the German prestige models with their 550-630 bhp and gone straight to over 700 in a producion car. In IC engine terms it is also top of the Fiat tree above Ferrari.

 

The launch blurb claims 204 mph but also  much better a statisitc I truly love - at full throttle you wil empty the fuel tank in 13 minutes!

 

What a great new statistic to replace Nordsring times " well its lousy round the 'ring but I can empty my tank faster acros Arizona than you can".



#121 Wuzak

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 22:03

In IC engine etrms it is also top of the Fiat tree above Ferrari..

 

What about the F12 with 730hp?

Or the La Ferrari with 790hp (ICE only)?



#122 carlt

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 18:48

more Dick wanging !



#123 carlt

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 18:59

This always gives me goose bumps and all tingle feeling , amazing variations in sound from different directions , but the scream when its on full chat going off into the distance !!!!

 

 

Off topic i know but..

Here's the other one to savour before the US GP ..[skip to 2mins to miss the musak]


Edited by carlt, 02 November 2014 - 19:08.


#124 ermo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 16:22

Interesting discussion. I don't see the point in an MR 'vette either. Show me a mid-engined sportscar with equivalent functionality (luggage space for a dirty weekend, etc)  to an FR Corvette. Go on, I'll wait...

 

The newest Cayman (mid-engined, shorter, lighter and less thirsty than the Corvette) has just shy of 10 cubic feet of luggage space to the Corvette's 15.  Plenty enough for a dirty weekend I'd say; especially if you opt for the (no doubt expensive) bespoke set of luggage.  It goes without saying that if you choose a Cayman over a Corvette you're as likely to carve corners to the delicate and well-tempered sound of Bach as you are to paint broad black stripes on the tarmac to the dirty sound of Bachman-Turner Overdrive.

 

Last I saw a Cayman (the previous 987 model) I came away impressed with how much luggage space there actually was given the size and focus of the car, not to mention that it felt as if I was putting it on rather than merely getting into it.

 

And a mid-engined Corvette?  If so, certainly the next-gen Camaro will slot into the spot presently occupied by the C7?  The engineering has already been done, so why not recoup the investment by continuing to offer the equivalent of the current Z/28 but with hand-me-down C7 & Z/28-derived hardware at the top of the range?

 

Pratt & Miller get their mid-engined race car,  GM brass gets a MR halo car with which to challenge Maranello and Stuttgart at Le Mans,  we the people get a very capable FR pony car with optional hardcore kit and Cadillac can continue to focus on trying to out-M the Bavarian rocketsled sedans and coup├ęs in both the power, handling and refinement stakes.  If, as they say, racing improves the breed then what's to lose?


Edited by ermo, 11 November 2014 - 16:24.


#125 MatsNorway

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 18:06

First of. Your comparing Apples to Oranges..

 

The newest Cayman (mid-engined, shorter, lighter and less thirsty than the Corvette) has just shy of 10 cubic feet of luggage space to the Corvette's 15.

Just?

 

Thats 284Litres..

 

Another way to look at it is beers. its 568 half liter beers. Or enough beer and then some to do this:

http://forums.iboats...h-500-beer-cans


Edited by MatsNorway, 11 November 2014 - 18:11.


#126 ermo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 18:20

First of. Your comparing Apples to Oranges..

 
Am I? 
 

Just?
 
Thats 284Litres..
 
Another way to look at it is beers. its 568 half liter beers. Or enough beer and then some to do this:
http://forums.iboats...h-500-beer-cans


The original question (challenge?) was for someone to show another poster an example of a MR car with useful trunk space for a weekend getaway and the Cayman is quoted as having 9.7 cubic feet of usable luggage space. So yes, "Just shy of 10 cubic feet". Thanks for spelling out my point in big neon letters.  ;)

Edited by ermo, 11 November 2014 - 18:24.


#127 MatsNorway

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 18:20

It is good. But the corvette still got 50% more. Without space in the front.

 

Funny. The article is from Edmunds.. They are a big clickbat page. I remember them claiming a Lamborgihini being the ugliest car one year.

 

You might as well compare the cayman to the GTR. Not the same performance class, price class or customer group. A turbo cayman now that would have been something. But they won't focus on a sporty cayman it seems, as the 911 is supposed to be their sportiest car. Even tho it is growing and growing into becoming a big sedan size car.


Edited by MatsNorway, 12 November 2014 - 18:21.


#128 Melbourne Park

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 14:12

Average price of a home in Melbourne is I think $700,000. You can buy a great ex USA Ferrari 308 for around $30,000. But you can buy a Toyota 86 for the same, which although not collectable, is cheap to run and not far behind in fun.

 

The Daytona was great because it had a big engine and at the front, and it was beautiful, and they tried to balance it with gearbox down back. It was never light though.

 

Today's exotic cars are not made for the same market. That Ferrari was made to fund the racing team. Now, Ferrari's are made for profit, and they are targetted at the quite wealthy. Some people buy them and put them aside; they hardly drive them. They see them as an icon, and assume they'll appreciate. There are waiting lists for such cars. And the only good they are at the race track; but that is not what most buy them for. 

 

And how much did a 65" Hi Def Surround sound TV cost in 1973?


Edited by Melbourne Park, 14 November 2014 - 14:14.


#129 MatsNorway

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 10:25

Good bit of driving there:

http://www.speedhunt...r-invitational/


Edited by MatsNorway, 15 November 2014 - 10:26.