173 replies to this topic

[LORDBYRON]

Looks like its going to be deja vu all over again with Hass

 

I really do hope he don't go down the pay driver route but it seems inevitable if he plans to take five year to start winning

 

 

http://www.gpupdate....rst-five-years/

Edited by LORDBYRON, 22 October 2014 - 19:50.

[BRG]

Sounds pretty realistic.  I am increasingly optimistic about this team being a proper effort.

[SonJR]

After his initital hubris, I'm glad to hear some more realistic stuff from Haas. I rather have his team surive and plug away for five years than trying to conquer the world in 2 years and pull the plug in the third.

[F1matt]

It's a difficult one, how do you convince sponsors or promising drivers to come onboard and stay with you for five years of just trying to stay on the grid? Hardly selling the American Dream!

Hopefully Haas is looking at worst case scenario and we will see small signs of progress in a couple of years. F1 is desperate for new teams and new blood.

[August]

The first five years will probably be financially difficult. I'd be hugely surprised if they beat any of the older teams in their first two seasons. But at least in their fourth year, they should get into the midfield. If they're still at the back of the grid in their fifth season, they probably won't anymore have the money to continue. But if they've established themselves as a midfield team by then, then they should be in a more secure financial position.

Hopefully Haas has seen what's gone wrong with 2010's new teams and learned from them. Another thing is if it's anymore possible for a new entrant to be competitive in F1 unless you are a car manufacturer.

[MikeV1987]

Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they started scoring a few points in their first season.

Edited by MikeV1987, 22 October 2014 - 21:22.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Aren't we in the 5th seasons for Marussia and Caterham?

[LORDBYRON]

Aren't we in the 5th seasons for Marussia and Caterham?

Exactly my reason for starting the thread lol  

[chadwick8505]

I think Haas is taking a very realistic approach to F1. He's building the resources over a few years, gaining the technical background required and not coming in with too many grandiose ideas. I think they'll be a lot further up the grid at the end of the 5 years than Marussia/Virgin, Caterham, or HRT have gotten.

[Myrvold]

 

 

"I think their biggest problem was trying to get to the grid so fast," explained Haas.

"For us we want to make sure that before the cars come for practice in January 2016, we will have that chassis hopefully completely assembled by November.

"We will spend a fair amount of time making sure we have the right spares, the right pit equipment, the right logistics, the right containers – all the right things that takes us to get to the race."

They might've done so as well, if they were allowed to...

[F1matt]

The more I ponder over the words the more it concerns me, the whole playing down happy to be there line, lots of talk on twitter this morning that Austin is now under threat and can't work to the terms they have, F1 wants to be in a better location, Las Vegas sounds like its just a load of rumours that will come to nothing, hopefully Haas can progress enough to keep generating interest in the sport in America to keep sponsors onboard.

[Prost1997T]

It's a difficult one, how do you convince sponsors or promising drivers to come onboard and stay with you for five years of just trying to stay on the grid? Hardly selling the American Dream!

Hopefully Haas is looking at worst case scenario and we will see small signs of progress in a couple of years. F1 is desperate for new teams and new blood.

Depends how much of his own money Haas wants to use.

[David Lightman]

"We won't repeat the mistakes others made" - he said outside of the factory he's built thousands of miles away from the world of F1 ;)

[Prost1997T]

"We won't repeat the mistakes others made" - he said outside of the factory he's built thousands of miles away from the world of F1 ;)

He has a CNC business headquartered there, other facilities including a wind tunnel and pre-existing staff at the location. He's also alluded to needing additional facilities in Europe. I thought F1 was a global sport anyway?

[Ferrari2183]

It's all good and well saying this and that... Does he have the necessary resources to be able the finance the operation for the 5 years?

 

Too many constructors/millionaires have signed up and folded just as fast. Maybe the FIA should be a lot stricter on proposed budgets for newcomers.. 

[paulogman]

being able to test the car at the season end test would be great if they can have the car assembled by then.
making sure they have the infrastructure in place is important too.
considering how many races are run outside Europe, having a bad in the states isn't as bad as it might have been.
if he can get some base in England that will help getting the staff he needs to run the races properly.
winning in the first five years will be an amazing achievement.

[GaryLandyfan]

Haas F1 will just be the same as Caterham, Marussia and HRT, struggling at the back. F1 these days has become to expensive if you want to compete with the big boys, small teams just do not have the money to compete with how much they spend to be at the top.

[nosecone]

This is at least a realistic assumption... Catherham, HRT and Marussia made a mistake by thinking they will challange the mid-field teams in their second or third year. I'm glad to hear that Haas has a realistic view of the things and i also think he has the resources (not only monetary resources) to survive in that 5 year long struggle for existence.

[F1ultimate]

Treading waters for 5 years effectively means menstruating £30-60m for 9 months every year in return for 0 constructors points.

 

 

How minted is this guy? 

[phoenix101]

I think Gene Haas also gives his bank account number to the Nigerians, when they give him a call.

[maverick69]

I think HRT made a mistake in thinking they could bolt a V8 Cossie to the back of what was fundamentally a GP2 car - and challenge in any meaningful form.

 

It was a pretty lazy approach.

[ensign14]

This is at least a realistic assumption... Catherham, HRT and Marussia made a mistake by thinking they will challange the mid-field teams in their second or third year. I'm glad to hear that Haas has a realistic view of the things and i also think he has the resources (not only monetary resources) to survive in that 5 year long struggle for existence.

 

To be fair to them, Caterham, HRT and Marussia were under the naif assumption that the FIA would deliver on their promise to cap budgets.

[HoldenRT]

Where there is a will, there is a way but definately not easy.  At least he's being realistic about it all.  The clever manufacturers always take over an existing team and then upgrade/develop it into something more.  But the foundation is already layed out.  To build it up from scratch is something I can't remember anyone doing in the entire time I've watched F1???  When all of the strongest teams (in current F1) came into F1 it was a lot easier or simpler back then.  Then they had the experience or history of the different eras.. some of them switching names, or ownership but still having some roots in the older team.  It'd be nice if there still exists a possibility for new teams to come in and do well.  With the proper management and funding.  Definitely not easy.

 

It'd be much easier if teams were given a fairer share of the pie based on participation instead of WDC points.  Ferrari even get an extra slice on top of that.  The same old story of rich get richer, poor get poorer etc etc.

[Tsarwash]

The fact that they are not relying on any prize money or extra sponsorship due to not finishing last is a good thing in my book, as they are being realistic and have done their sums properly. A new team whose budget involves some prize money within three or four years is likely to come undone. And a lot of businesses/sponsors are happy to rely on steady, slow growth rather than the promise of a meteoric rise to the top. I hope they do well. 

[nosecone]

To be fair to them, Caterham, HRT and Marussia were under the naif assumption that the FIA would deliver on their promise to cap budgets.

 

True, forgot that.

 

But it was clear that a budget cap was never going to happen. The big teams don't want that and thus there will never be a budget cap.

 

We can only speculate about how HRT had done with budget cap.

[MLC]

Off the top of my head, the last team started from scratch that went on to win a race was Stewart GP. They started in 1997, won in 1999 before Ford took over and eventually becoming Red Bull.

[ensign14]

Off the top of my head, the last team started from scratch that went on to win a race was Stewart GP. They started in 1997, won in 1999 before Ford took over and eventually becoming Red Bull.

 

You can almost go further and look for the last team to start from scratch in toto.  Between then and 2010, you have...well, Toyota, who spent billions and are now gone, and Super Aguri, who were basically re-heated Arrows.

 

The previous 13 years saw Minardi, Stewart and Jordan, all of whom are alive and well, Sauber, who are alive, as well as lots of others who had a tilt. 

 

The system has been stitched up so it is literally impossible to come in afresh.  Very good for Ron Dennis' pension and Ferrari's brand, not so much for bright engineers and potless drivers.

[Ross Stonefeld]

BAR-Honda-Merc were pretty much from scratch. They used the Tyrrell paperwork but nothing else. Everyone had to reapply for their jobs, new facilitiy, etc. Though it was a weird one, because they owned/ran Tyrrell for the 98(?) season? So basically vaporised their own team and started all over.

[ensign14]

I don't see it as being overly different from McLaren moving to the Death Star.  There was still some continuity of staff.  They still had some of the nous from being in motor sport.  And of course wasted it through acting Pollocks.

[F1ultimate]

The fact that they are not relying on any prize money or extra sponsorship due to not finishing last is a good thing in my book, as they are being realistic and have done their sums properly. A new team whose budget involves some prize money within three or four years is likely to come undone. And a lot of businesses/sponsors are happy to rely on steady, slow growth rather than the promise of a meteoric rise to the top. I hope they do well. 

 

Not in F1. Lots of sponsors get on board for the glory to rub shoulders with celebs while others are just in it to network. Pretty much only the top teams are able to secure long terms sponsors. Smaller teams even scramble to certain sponsors to stay on for more than 1-3 days. Brawn was a great example of that. 

[Ferrari2183]

Thinking about it, as a rare American F1 racing team based in the US, Haas should be able to secure some decent American sponsors who'd like their name linked with this sort of thing.

One of the big problems for Haas is skill related. Can he persuade engineers to make the trek over the Atlantic?

[loki]

It's all good and well saying this and that... Does he have the necessary resources to be able the finance the operation for the 5 years?

 

Too many constructors/millionaires have signed up and folded just as fast. Maybe the FIA should be a lot stricter on proposed budgets for newcomers.. 

Yes, Haas CNC will be the primary sponsor.  He's stated many times the F1 project is to serve as a B2B promotional platform for the tool company.  While the potential customers for the tools likely won't be Haas F1 fans he'll be able to wine and dine them in the Paddock Club and all the related sponsor and VIP amenities.

[loki]

 

 

We can only speculate about how HRT had done with budget cap.

HRT ran out of funding well before they hit any sort of anticipated budget cap.  They couldn't even pay to get a basic roller completed.

[paulb]

Thinking about it, as a rare American F1 racing team based in the US, Haas should be able to secure some decent American sponsors who'd like their name linked with this sort of thing.

One of the big problems for Haas is skill related. Can he persuade engineers to make the trek over the Atlantic?

He needs people that understand the rules and politics of F1 along with skilled engineers.

[Knot]

HRT ran out of funding well before they hit any sort of anticipated budget cap.  They couldn't even pay to get a basic roller completed.

 

I still cringe when I remember HRT's livery which consisted of "This Could Be You" splashed on the sidepods.

Edited by Knot, 23 October 2014 - 18:02.

[A.Fant]

I still cringe when I remember HRT's livery which consisted of "This Could Be You" splashed on the sidepods.

That was only for winter testing though, but you are right in that it was truly cringe-worthy.

 

"->This is a [COOL SPOT]" on the rear wing end plate might be the worst thing I've seen on an F1 car.

Edited by A.Fant, 23 October 2014 - 18:16.

[loki]

He needs people that understand the rules and politics of F1 along with skilled engineers.

Yes, if only someone like Gunther Steiner worked for him...

 

He'll find the talent.  There are always more candidates than jobs in that sort of profession.  A great deal of the engineering support is coming from Ferrari and presumably Dallara and race operations look to be in Motorsport Valley so the need to relocate talent to the US won't be as much as if they were doing everything over here.  It appears at this point that most of the operations staff of the team won't be working in the US.

[SanDiegoGo]

Thinking about it, as a rare American F1 racing team based in the US, Haas should be able to secure some decent American sponsors who'd like their name linked with this sort of thing.

One of the big problems for Haas is skill related. Can he persuade engineers to make the trek over the Atlantic?

 

 

why are people forgetting the very reason haas has decided to enter F1? he has said from the very start this is a massive ad campaign for haas tools. his cars will be sponsored heavily by haas tools. they will be mobile billboards for haas tools. he wants his tool business to go global and this is his main reason for entering F1.

Edited by SanDiegoGo, 23 October 2014 - 18:57.

[Ferrari2183]

why are people forgetting the very reason haas has decided to enter F1? he has said from the very start this is a massive ad campaign for haas tools. his cars will be sponsored heavily by haas tools. they will be mobile billboards for haas tools. he wants his tool business to go global and this is his main reason for entering F1.

So you're saying he doesn't need sponsorships... Ok.

[F1matt]

He has a CNC business headquartered there, other facilities including a wind tunnel and pre-existing staff at the location. He's also alluded to needing additional facilities in Europe. I thought F1 was a global sport anyway?

F1 is hardly global, unless your based between Milton Keynes and Oxford you have no chance.

[SanDiegoGo]

So you're saying he doesn't need sponsorships... Ok.

 

no he doesn't need them. his company is sponsoring the team. red bull doesn't need sponsorship. he may have minor sponsors but he doesn't need them.

[Ducks]

That was only for winter testing though, but you are right in that it was truly cringe-worthy.

 

"->This is a [COOL SPOT]" on the rear wing end plate might be the worst thing I've seen on an F1 car.

 

 

Unfortunately it was used in season too.

[DutchQuicksilver]

The first five years will probably be financially difficult. I'd be hugely surprised if they beat any of the older teams in their first two seasons. But at least in their fourth year, they should get into the midfield. If they're still at the back of the grid in their fifth season, they probably won't anymore have the money to continue. But if they've established themselves as a midfield team by then, then they should be in a more secure financial position.

Hopefully Haas has seen what's gone wrong with 2010's new teams and learned from them. Another thing is if it's anymore possible for a new entrant to be competitive in F1 unless you are a car manufacturer.

What's there to learn? If Haas has no budget, he's in for the same five years Caterham and Marussia have had so far.

[A.Fant]

 

Unfortunately it was used in season too.

Wait, what!? I was sure they changed it for the race season, my mind must have repressed those memories.

Edited by A.Fant, 23 October 2014 - 20:32.

[ensign14]

"->This is a [COOL SPOT]" on the rear wing end plate might be the worst thing I've seen on an F1 car.

 

Probably beaten by OTTO STUPPACHER on a Tyrrell 006.

[Myrvold]

I think HRT made a mistake in thinking they could bolt a V8 Cossie to the back of what was fundamentally a GP2 car - and challenge in any meaningful form.

 

It was a pretty lazy approach.

Which might've been completely different if Campos had been able to get any money to Dallara to actually do some dev.work on the car! 

[loki]

F1 is hardly global, unless your based between Milton Keynes and Oxford you have no chance.

Would those include the quaint English hamlets of Maranello, Hinwil, Koln and Faenza?  Too bad Caterham isn't there then they wouldn't be in the mess they're in...  Oh, wait a minute....

[loki]

So you're saying he doesn't need sponsorships... Ok.

He has a sponsor.  Haas Automation, the second largest machine tool company in the world with revenues of about US$1 billion. http://en.wikipedia....Haas_Automation

 

And his wind tunnel ain't too shabby either...  http://www.windshearinc.com/

[Clatter]

F1 is hardly global, unless your based between Milton Keynes and Oxford you have no chance.

Ferrari have been fairly successful.

[CoolBreeze]

F1. The only business where a billionaire will become a millionaire. Go figure..