101 replies to this topic

[Michael Ferner]

As someone who doesn't follow F1 on a regular basis (read: hardly at all), I was stimulated by a recent rash of news flashes to nose around a bit on the 'net, and noticed a certain doomsday mood amongst reporters, and after a short dip into the RC forum, amongst fans, too. I found the latter discussing a YouTube clip of an interview with BCE, and was really shocked after viewing it: my gosh, Bernie's REALLY aged! I'm sure I saw pictures of him during the time he was on trial in Germany, but I really can't recall the last time I heard him speak, so perhaps I'm more sensitive than the regular followers of the sport who don't register small changes over time, but to me it was really shocking because, frankly, the impression I got is that of a seriously senile man. Is it me alone, or was that perhaps a "bad hair day" because of the recent F1 troubles, or what?

[Sharman]

In my opinion he is Too Effing Old.

[pete53]

84 I believe

[Doug Nye]

Mr E put down his inability to recall precise financial details of his dealings with Gerhard Gribkowsky to incipient Altzheimer's. Yeah, right...he started life with more marbles than most, and absolutely still has an advantage over many less gifted. How one deploys such gifts is perhaps a matter for independent debate...

DCN

[Vitesse2]

Mr E put down his inability to recall precise financial details of his dealings with Gerhard Gribkowsky to incipient Altzheimer's. Yeah, right...he started life with more marbles than most, and absolutely still has an advantage over many less gifted. How one deploys such gifts is perhaps a matter for independent debate...

DCN

You have to wonder whether this was an attempt to reinforce the 'incipient Alzheimer's' message ...

 

 

As for how he looks, I'm sure he'll be fine after yet another course of monkey glands.

[Michael Ferner]

The looks are okay for an octogenarian, what bothered me was his "mental posture", for lack of a better word, what he said and how he said it. So, Doug, you think it's all a sham? He's just playing "senile old man" to the public? Not sure if that would convince me if I were to make business with him...

[arttidesco]

The looks are okay for an octogenarian, what bothered me was his "mental posture", for lack of a better word, what he said and how he said it. So, Doug, you think it's all a sham? He's just playing "senile old man" to the public? Not sure if that would convince me if I were to make business with him...

 

... 'if' you can do as you say you may just have a future managing the F1 circus

[Brandz07]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q...nie ecclestone? 

Edited by Brandz07, 01 November 2014 - 16:15.

[HoldenRT]

In my opinion he is Too Effing Old.

 

Preferred this answer to Google's answer though.
 

[BRG]

.. was that perhaps a "bad hair day" because of the recent F1 troubles, or what?

Everyday has been a bad hair day for BE since about 1970.  Although, is that mop really his hair.....?  I think we should be told!

[D-Type]

I've seen a recent photo where a gust of wind had caught his hair.  It is certainly his own and not a syrup.

Edited by D-Type, 01 November 2014 - 20:20.

[BRG]

You'd think that he could afford a decent hair cut then, what with all his squillions.  Even mine is better than his, and it only cost £8 (OAP discount).

[TIPO61]

Bernie is somewhere between 84 and 207. Probably more toward the latter. He'll outlive us all.

[BRG]

207?  Wasn't that Radio Luxembourg?

[Robin Fairservice]

According to Wikipedia, Bernie was born on October 28, 1930, which would make him 84. This agrees with the Free BMD index, which shows him to be born at Westley in Suffolk.

[fbarrett]

Bernie is somewhere between 84 and 207. Probably more toward the latter. He'll outlive us all.

 

Like a cockroach.

[john aston]

I wouldn't dignify him by using his Christian name; but what I would say is that despite every in racing telling me how incredibly smart Ecclestone   is I have never heard him say anything that wasn't crass, banal or idiotic. Maybe these qualities are what you need to make so much out of my sport that you can buy your daughter a £60m mansion from loose change? I look forward to reading the unexpurgated biography in due course - if you catch my drift.  

[Gabrci]

I think he always enjoyed saying silly things to the press I suppose just to make fun of them but I'm absolutely sure that in reality at 84 he is still much smarter than all of us put together. 

[Dipster]

Love him or loathe him he is still there!

 

As for age I imagine he is as old or young as he feels. Like all of us. He seems to be very active doing what he wants to do and this will probably keep him going for some time yet.........

 

Doubtless he can also afford the very best periodic health checks too to fine tune any problems!

[nicanary]

207?  Wasn't that Radio Luxembourg?

I think it was 208. Listening to the faintest of signals under the blankets at night (my parents disapproved) and the dulcet tones of "That's Horace Batchelor, Keynsham, that's spelt K-E-Y-N-S-H-A-M, Keynsham, Bristol."

[Doug Nye]

It is so easy, yet intensely foolish, to misunderstand who is the giant here...and it's none of us in this place.

 

DCN

[Gary Davies]

Indeed. And his undoubted mental ability and agility do engender sycophancy in some quarters. However, it is important, too, to concede the legitimacy of those views which criticise the way in which he deploys his gifts.

[f1steveuk]

It always makes me smile, that most who dislike BCE have never met him, and actually only know what they have read, and trust who wrote it to be telling the truth, which invariably, they are not.

 

Yes. he takes delight (much like Eric Cantonna did at his infamous press conference) in leaving "journalists" confused. I have seen him tie people in knots with clever, rational thinking, and I have seen members of the press walk away from "in depth" interviews, stop, and realise, they actually have nothing.

 

I would not profess to "knowing" him at all, but I do know, he has a great love for the sport he promotes, is extremely loyal, and he would read this thread and laugh. The evidence would be apparent if you compare with what you have acheived and what he has, and you cannot do that without upsetting someone every so often. If you knew the half of what he does, without press coverage, without seeking self promotion, it might make some think differently, but probably not.

[Doug Nye]

Exactly. The two-dimensional caricature is just too easy. And I would take especial exception to the comment expressed in post 16 - which really surprises me...

DCN

[Bloggsworth]

We, put it this way, Methuselah is worried about his record... 

[Dipster]

In fact he would be a fascinating guest speaker at a TNF gathering. If he accepted I am sure it would be quite a full house. What are the chances?

[Vitesse2]

Exactly. The two-dimensional caricature is just too easy. And I would take especial exception to the comment expressed in post 16 - which really surprises me...

DCN

I'd venture to suggest it was a reference to the ability of some cockroach species to withstand large doses of radiation - although fruit flies actually do that even better.

 

Whatever one might think of Mr E, one thing he has is 'bounce-back-ability'. Much like cockroaches, which have been around a lot longer than humans!

[Charlieman]

The looks are okay for an octogenarian, what bothered me was his "mental posture", for lack of a better word, what he said and how he said it. So, Doug, you think it's all a sham? He's just playing "senile old man" to the public? Not sure if that would convince me if I were to make business with him...

Bernie Ecclestone's fluency may vary according to the identity of the interviewer and the subject matter. For most of his career, BCE has been interviewed by sports journalists and hence runs rings around them. When tackled by a financial or political specialist, he tends to be vaguer or tosses out an outrageous suggestion. However the serious investigator Tom Bower, who has shredded a few reputations in his time, failed to cause serious damage.

[f1steveuk]

I'm not going to post again after this one, but BCE doesn't make the rules, he doesn't implement them, and he has no control of the teams and what they do. A lot of the problems with the current incarnation of F1 is self inflicted by the teams themselves. Very recently BCE suggested that maybe the bigger teams would like to reduce their take from the F1 pot, to help the smaller teams. It was the teams that rejected it, not BCE. There seems to be some confusion as to what BCE looks after, and remember, when it was decided to reduce costs, while at the same time developing costly new hybrid engines, it was BCE who questioned the logic and the engines. I recall one meeting in which he proposed that if F1 used a "stock block" formula, in which F1 engines would be based on the block and heads (only) of mass produced engines. He said it would reduce costs, and encourage manufacturers to get involved. It was rejected by? The big, successful, teams. You cannot lay the blame for all of F1s woes at one man's feet. Or would we rather have awful safety and teams operating out of corragated sheds at each track? Yes, there's a downside to the corperate money he has brought in, but without it, would we even have F1?

[kayemod]

It always makes me smile, that most who dislike BCE have never met him, and actually only know what they have read, and trust who wrote it to be telling the truth, which invariably, they are not.

 

 

Oh, how true, how true, and that's not limited to Bernie Ecclestone. It happens to many other public figures too, both past and present, some of whom are discussed from time to time on TNF.

[john aston]

I have never met the man - so what? Here is a man who has made obscene amounts of money from the sport and in doing so has sought the dollar wherever it may be and destroyed much of what was great about our sport . Result - joke Grands Prix at joke circuits in joke countries who are able to pay the grotesque amounts required to stage a race . So we have a race at that haven of motor sport heritage Bahrain  but not a French Grand Prix. Watching him with that pillar of democracy Putin at Sochi epitomised the embarassing reputation that GP racing currently enjoys .    I 'll form my own judgement thanks and don't really buy the 'I've met him so I'm right' argument. Somebody who has is Alastair Caldwell- some interesting insights there in this month's Motor Sport 

[LittleChris]

 Very recently BCE suggested that maybe the bigger teams would like to reduce their take from the F1 pot, to help the smaller teams.

Whilst of course his employers at CVC keep their full part of the pot .....  I don't doubt that he still has some affection for the sport, just wish he'd show it some times. And as for anything Alistair Caldwell says, don't forget Zolder 1981, what a vile man.

Edited by LittleChris, 02 November 2014 - 23:54.

[Richard Jenkins]

Alistair Caldwell can't even agree with himself!
His self-written profile on the BRDC says he was at Brabham in 1980, his linkedin profile says McLaren.
Granted, not the most heinous of crimes but it makes researchers like me think twice before believing anything else he says if he can't get the basics right.

[john aston]

Alastair for the record 

[Michael Ferner]

So, the consensus is, he's fine, just muddying the waters with regards to his mental state? Hm. I believe I'll beg to differ. Mind you, I "knew" him just as well as most of you during many years, and have a fairly solid understanding of what made him tick, I just don't believe this old dog learned that many new tricks while I haven't been around. I'll go out on a limb and predict that in a year from now, he'll be in the process of moving out. Is F1 prepared for that scenario?

[Richard Jenkins]

Alastair for the record

LOL My last few words come back to bite me far too swiftly!

[Tim Murray]

Alistair Caldwell can't even agree with himself!
His self-written profile on the BRDC says he was at Brabham in 1980, his linkedin profile says McLaren.

That BRDC profile says he was with Brabham from 1978 - 1980, which is also wrong. According to Autosport he resigned from McLaren the day after the 1979 German GP, which was 30th July. He joined Brabham later in 1979 and stayed with them until June 1981.

[Doug Nye]

So, the consensus is, he's fine, just muddying the waters with regards to his mental state? Hm. I believe I'll beg to differ.

????? Eh??? I don't think that's a consensus opinion here at all. I just pointed out that it doesn't matter one jot what 'we' think, while Steve and I have both seen a very different other side of the man in question which makes us consider the knee-jerk vilification which is so common amongst enthusiasts to be rather unfair. To quote one very long-term friend with vast experience of BCE "The little bastard doesn't need anyone to defend him - he's more capable of doing that himself than anyone could possibly believe...". Or another, now late, mutual friend who said "Tell you what,you've got to get up early in the morning to pin Bernie down on a contract, and you've got to make damn sure you have dotted absolutely all the 'i's and crossed all the 't's, but if you've got that right and you've shaken hands he's good as gold". He did add "Just don't expect a kiss after".

DCN

[fbarrett]

Doug:

 

Sorry, shouldn't post after two glasses of vino.

 

Frank

[Doug Nye]

That is very gracious Frank - a response I really respect... Maybe not being able to drink (like me) in that sense is a bonus.

DCN

[Michael Ferner]

Nah, Doug. The question was, how old is Bernie, not how evil or benign, how clever or how dumb. I have my own opinion of his personal qualities, and it is quite well formed, I'd like to think, and not one-dimensional thank you very much, so I didn't pay any attention to that part of the discussion. What I was getting at was the poor performance he gave in that interview; he was confused, definitely not lucid and barely intelligible, not the Bernie that I remembered. Having not seen him "perform" for some, perhaps many years, I wondered if that was a one-off, or if maybe someone else had noticed signs of ageing that may or may not be difficult to detect on a "day-to-day" basis as opposed to a span of several years. My conclusion from the posts in this thread is that nobody shares my observation, hence there's a consensus of opinion that everything is as usual, however different that "usual" may be interpreted by the different posters. That's all.

Still, the question remains, what's F1's masterplan for the time when BCE will stand for "Before Current Era"?

[kayemod]

Some support for you Michael, a headline from one of today's papers.

 

"Men shorter than 5ft 6ins are '50% more likely to die from dementia than those over 5ft 10ins"

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz3I5tni0To

 

There's a less sensational version of this in today's Daily Telegraph as well, but the headline wasn't as shouty, though that's the DM for you.

 

I always mistrust any story that begins "A new report out today..." but maybe there's something in this one. I saw that Bernie interview you referred to, and it was very 'old peoples' home', though maybe he was just having an off-day.

Edited by kayemod, 04 November 2014 - 12:51.

[Nemo1965]

The big, successful, teams. You cannot lay the blame for all of F1s woes at one man's feet. Or would we rather have awful safety and teams operating out of corragated sheds at each track? Yes, there's a downside to the corperate money he has brought in, but without it, would we even have F1?

I totally agree with you, but there are two BCE's in my mind. There is the Bernie of 1970 untill the late 80's, who has done wonders to the sport and really knew how to serve both his self-interest AND that of F1... And there is the BCE of the early nineties until now, who is serving... I don't know who, but it certainly is not F1.

 

How old is Bernie Ecclestone? In 1981 a Dutch journalist (I believe, it was at a pressconference in the Bouwes Hotel in Zandvoort, I was there, as a 16-year old): 'Mr. Ecclestone, how old are you exactly?'

BE: 'Why do you want to know?'

Journalist: 'I am writing a profile and for that I need your age.'

BCE: 'I am ten years younger than my sister, who says she's 61... but she always lies about her age.'

 

Uproarious laughter.

The quote appeared in the newspaper as a streamer.

 

And there I mange to arrive at the other aspect of Bernie 'oldness'. I sometimes wonder whether he is getting senile (take the infamous revolving door incident in Paris), or that he is faking alzheimer to be elusive. My favourite BCE quote is again an example of cleverness to avoid being pinned down, as anything. Question to Bernie Ecclestone: 'What would you rather have as a present? A million friends? Or a million dollars?' Bernie's answer: 'A million friends... who all give me a dollar as a present.'

Edited by Nemo1965, 04 November 2014 - 11:41.

[Michael Ferner]

Thanks, Rob - at least I wasn't dreaming it! And I'm 6 ft 7, so I'm unlikely to be affected by dementia!

[Glengavel]

Reminds me of the story about Cary Grant being in his agent's office when a telegram came in from a newspaper columnist asking HOW OLD CARY GRANT? Grant sent him back a reply OLD CARY GRANT FINE, HOW YOU?

 

Anyway, re BCE's age:

 

"Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year..."

 

[Nemo1965]

In case anyone is really interested in the age of Ecclestone, according to Dieter Rencken, he is 83. In the article 'The race for ownership of F1', published july this year Rencken wrote:

 

Just as his omnipresence is an enormous profit spinner, having helped CVC to profit by no less than $4bn (￡2.5bn) from its F1 investment, so his continued leadership of the sport had gradually become a hindrance to any share sale – hence CVC's indulgence to date in keeping the 83-year-old at the helm of its highest-profile activity.

 

I think D.R. is as good a source as anyone...

[kayemod]

Herr Ecclestone has been 84 for the last eight days, it was his birthday just over one week ago, didn't you send him a card Nemo?

[Nemo1965]

Herr Ecclestone has been 84 for the last eight days, it was his birthday just over one week ago, didn't you send him a card Nemo?

 

Haha, it is like my eldest aunt, who lives in Indonesia. She has been 90 for about 30 years...

 

I have to say that I also am sceptical about Ecclestone being in his early eighties... he looks older than that.

[GMACKIE]

Who cares????

[LotusElise]

He actually died in 2002. The current Bernie is an animatronic model, which explains the occasional bizarre pronouncement.