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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 11:55

The Series in Japan is getting stronger. I heard rumours about Jolyon Palmer could join the series next season. Also teams shows interest in Marvin Kirchhöfer.

The car is very good and one of the fastest Formula car alongside F1.

The series wants to expan in Asia.

Young Japanese driver at Honda could hope to make experience there and will be supported by Honda in Europa after SF.

Lotterer's F1 debut helped the standing of the series.

 

What do you think about Super Formula?



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#2 handel

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 14:14

What's the engine that they're using these days?



#3 huisne

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 14:35

I also think it is quite a strong series. The cars are very fast and it has a good field of drivers: LMP1 drivers like Nakajima, Lotterer, Duval or Rossiter racing there among the local Japanese drivers. 

Of course you cannot compare it to F1, but it's a good base if you want to do something with your career but don't really have the opportunity/money to continue in Europe. That's what happened with Lotterer, Treluyer, Duval - they run out of money in Europe, and instead of chasing sponsors and insisting on their F1 dreams, they went to Japan. Now they're all Audi factory drivers in WEC and Le Mans winners, and I don't think they regret their decision to go to Japan. However, Super Formula is not on the F1 teams' scope, so if you go there, you probably won't end up in F1. 

Looking forward to the season finale in Suzuka - there will be 2 races on Sunday so nothing is decided yet, although Nakajima has the advantage. Just an interesting note: in qualifying for Race 1, Lotterer and Nakajima tied for pole position, 0.000 gap. 



#4 jonpollak

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 15:02

What's their TV package HF?

 

I'd love to follow as I do spend a bit of time in Japan every year or so..

 

Jp



#5 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 15:12

 

I follow the Super Formula Youtube channel. Here are brief highlights of today's qualifying.


Edited by johnwilliamdavies, 08 November 2014 - 15:12.


#6 huisne

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 15:30

I don't know about TV channels, but it's always easy to find live streams on the internet. I always watch the races from Europe.

The races are generally good so it's worth giving it a try. 

Mathematically, there are still 7 drivers who can win the championship tomorrow. Realistically, it's down to Nakajima, De Oliveira, Lotterer and Duval.   If any of them win both races, they're champions regardless of the others' results. Nakajima has the biggest chance as he is starting 2nd and 1st, Lotterer in quite a good position too with 1st and 3rd grid places. 

 

De Oliveira and Lotterer were ahead in the standings before the previous race, but then this crash happened:   

 



#7 ch103

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 15:51

The Series in Japan is getting stronger. I heard rumours about Jolyon Palmer could join the series next season. Also teams shows interest in Marvin Kirchhöfer.

The car is very good and one of the fastest Formula car alongside F1.

The series wants to expan in Asia.

Young Japanese driver at Honda could hope to make experience there and will be supported by Honda in Europa after SF.

Lotterer's F1 debut helped the standing of the series.

 

What do you think about Super Formula?

 

I am a fan of the series, while admittedly only ever seeing 2 - 3 races - months after the actual race.  They seem to be like Indycars in the sense that they are a spec series.  For all of F1's flaws, the "personal touch" each team's design puts on the car adds a certain flavor that both SF and Indycar lack.



#8 muramasa

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 16:04

The Series in Japan is getting stronger. I heard rumours about Jolyon Palmer could join the series next season. Also teams shows interest in Marvin Kirchhöfer.

Actually Super Formula / Formula Nippon / All Nippon F3000 was stronger in 90s, when many drivers have graduated to F1, like PDLR, Ralf Schu, Irvine, Salo, among many others. In 00s it sort of went into doldrums. Despite so, it could keep grooming future stars in current Audi drivers, which is fantastic. They showed strong determination, contribution and commitment into Japan series. I highly respect them, and am so happy they are getting due recognition by flourishing in international scene in WEC. Also kudos to Japan side personnel for finding and raising such exceptional talents.

Anyway that's cool if drivers like Palmer coming. SF needs fresh talents of new generation, that can hopefully follow Lotterer/Duval/Treluyer. They have one in Caldarelli but more the merrier. Ex-F1 drivers like Liuzzi and Karthikeyan add variety and makes nice mix, but priority should be younger talents.

 

 

The series wants to expan in Asia.

Yes the organizer does want to expand into Asia, but there's two hurdles. First is that makers are too busy thinking about their own little things rather than cooperate in and explore grand scheme that is Asian market. Second is national sentiment in Asia esp that's bw Japan and China/Korea. Race in Korea almost happened last year but got screwed cos affected by those political disputes. It wont be so easy to hold races in China too. I think SF should be leading Asia in this field and be the Asian Series, involving other manufacturers and drivers from Korea/China as well of course, but winding road ahead. Hopefully Japanese makers and fans grow up and see bigger picture. Population in Japan is shrinking with less and less younger generation, so it's essential for SuperFormula/SuperGT as well as Japanese auto industry as a whole to expand into Asia, and it has to start NOW. Otherwise it will either disappear or end up becoming like AutoGP, and by that time, other series, most likely from China, will grow to be the Asian series.

 

 However, Super Formula is not on the F1 teams' scope, so if you go there, you probably won't end up in F1. 
 

Yeah that's the issue. Still, recent Japan F3 is producing F1 drivers sometimes in Sutil and Ericsson, but overall it needs more attention/exposure and interaction in and bw Europe. I believe such interaction would be mutually beneficial.

Good for talented Japanese/Asian drivers too, they get absolutely no chance in Europe without manufacture connection. For example Motoyama, multiple F-Nippon champion, very solid and fast driver, I highly rate him and think he deserved proper chance either in endurance or F1, but he's 43yo. it's such a shame he couldnt get such proper big chance at his peak. If he was 20 or 10 years younger, surely he should be driving a Nissan LMP1 in WEC next year.

 



#9 huisne

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 16:23

Actually Super Formula / Formula Nippon / All Nippon F3000 was stronger in 90s, when many drivers have graduated to F1, like PDLR, Ralf Schu, Irvine, Salo, among many others. In 00s it sort of went into doldrums. Despite so, it could keep grooming future stars in current Audi drivers, which is fantastic. They showed strong determination, contribution and commitment into Japan series. I highly respect them, and am so happy they are getting due recognition by flourishing in international scene in WEC. Also kudos to Japan side personnel for finding and raising such exceptional talents.

 

 

 

 

Why do you think these drivers (like Lotterer, Duval) are so committed to Japan and Super Formula? I mean, they have a career in Europe too, they are European, their family is in Europe, why do they stay in Super Formula (a series that, to be honest, is almost totally unknown in Europe.) I am not trying to downgrade Super Formula series at all, I'm just really curious. Lotterer is doing his 12th season in Japan or so. What is it that is keeping these drivers there? The money? The cars are that fast & enjoyable to drive? 



#10 Gyno

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 17:21

They need high revving V10 engines



#11 muramasa

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 17:33

Why do you think these drivers (like Lotterer, Duval) are so committed to Japan and Super Formula? I mean, they have a career in Europe too, they are European, their family is in Europe, why do they stay in Super Formula (a series that, to be honest, is almost totally unknown in Europe.) I am not trying to downgrade Super Formula series at all, I'm just really curious. Lotterer is doing his 12th season in Japan or so. What is it that is keeping these drivers there? The money? The cars are that fast & enjoyable to drive? 

Actually I'm curious too. When they came to Japan, actually it wasnt the most exciting and interesting time of F-Nippon.

Shouldve been not easy decision for them, to greater extent, it mustve been a gamble for them to come to Japan at first, but they should have found great motivation in it, Money is important factor in life for sure, but what really matters is their speed and commitment, as well as mutual trust isnt it, otherwise you cant continue and succeed like that. They are fast, been dedicating their all, became champion, got chance in Le Mans and won, and some are still racing here alongside WEC effort.

In 2011, Lotterer and Treluyer raced in Le Mans 24 under Japanese license in order to encourage Japan, in support of recovery from the 311 Earthquake, so they were racing as Japanese driver in that race.

http://www.racingspo...2011-06-12e.jpg

That's really something. Also from their body languages too I feel their attitude is genuine.

I dont know, you have to ask them what it is, I guess.



#12 huisne

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 18:11

Actually I'm curious too. When they came to Japan, actually it wasnt the most exciting and interesting time of F-Nippon.

Shouldve been not easy decision for them, to greater extent, it mustve been a gamble for them to come to Japan at first, but they should have found great motivation in it, Money is important factor in life for sure, but what really matters is their speed and commitment, as well as mutual trust isnt it, otherwise you cant continue and succeed like that. They are fast, been dedicating their all, became champion, got chance in Le Mans and won, and some are still racing here alongside WEC effort.

In 2011, Lotterer and Treluyer raced in Le Mans 24 under Japanese license in order to encourage Japan, in support of recovery from the 311 Earthquake, so they were racing as Japanese driver in that race.

http://www.racingspo...2011-06-12e.jpg

That's really something. Also from their body languages too I feel their attitude is genuine.

I dont know, you have to ask them what it is, I guess.

I remember that Lotterer and Treluyer were racing with Japanese flags next to their names in '11, but never knew that it was because of the earthquake. I thought they just got Japanese license easier as they were racing in Japan. Thanks for the info!

Yeah, probably trust and respect has a lot to do with that. I always thought Japanese race fans and people were very respectful, maybe the European drivers appreciate it this much because it's different from the tough world of F1 (and lower European series) where they are constantly racing under pressure and get a lot of criticism. Here they are respected, supported and can enjoy themselves without much pressure. I seem to recall lots of drivers (Irvine, Salo, etc) mentioning how much they enjoyed their time in Japan.


Edited by huisne, 08 November 2014 - 18:12.


#13 ezequiel

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 00:43

It seems Super Formula has taken several seasons ago the IndyCar path to become a single seater championship where drivers can develop their careers and not just being there as a prior step to F1 or whatever else. That's probably why for some people the series was 'better' or 'more important' in the 90s when it was taken by many as an alternative to the International F3000 championship, Hence, I don't think it's a problem if SF is not in the F1 radar because, for years now, it's not supposed to be a F1 feeder series like it was to a good measure in the 90s.



#14 AllenT

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 06:00

Wet Suzuka just tstarted  :clap:



#15 huisne

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 06:44

Wet Suzuka just tstarted  :clap:

The rain didn't make the race more interesting though, Nakajima is absolutely dominating Lotterer!



#16 AllenT

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 07:00

Kazuuuki  :kiss:  Damn good driver all round. GT series, Super Formula and LMP1.



#17 huisne

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 07:06

Well done to Nakajima, he clearly deserved this championship. He and De Oliveira were the best this year (I think the Brazilian would have deserved it too), so the championship results are right. 



#18 huisne

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 07:45

In 12 seasons, Lotterer finished top 3 in the championship 8 times, but only has one title. Nakajima has 2 titles in the last 2 years (as team mate to Lotterer). I think Nakajima is underrated and Lotterer is quite overrated (in Le Mans / WEC too). 



#19 HistoryFan

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 10:26

What's the engine that they're using these days?

 

From their homepage:

The cars are powered by 2.0-litre turbo-charged inline-4 direct injection engine either from Honda (HR414E) or Toyota (RI4A)
 



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#20 ezequiel

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 13:30

In 12 seasons, Lotterer finished top 3 in the championship 8 times, but only has one title. Nakajima has 2 titles in the last 2 years (as team mate to Lotterer). I think Nakajima is underrated and Lotterer is quite overrated (in Le Mans / WEC too). 

 

You forget that Lotterer missed three (!) races in 2013 and one race this season, so he has been giving Nakajima a clear advantage and still has taken the title fight until the end. Even more, in 2013 he scored more points than Kazuki, the champion was Naoki Yamamoto —who tied in points to Lotterer—, not Nakajima.



#21 August

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 18:46

Few questions about this series, I hope somebody could answer at least some of them:

What are the viewing figures and media coverage like? Are there lots of people trackside, and does the series get recognized in the mainstream media?

Then about teams' finances. Are the drivers paid or paying for driving? And how big the teams' budgets are?

And somebody mentioned live streams? The series is on a pay channel available only in Japan, but are there really some "unofficial" streams? I once tried to find one but didn't find.

#22 huisne

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 22:36

Top drivers are definitely paid, don't know about all the drivers. But that's one of the main reasons why European or South American drivers came to Japan , at least in past years - they didn't have money to pay for a seat in Europe, and they needed to be paid (as one gets paid for his job) because they didn't come from rich families. They got that in Japan, they could remain professional drivers and get paid for their job. Otherwise, these drivers' careers would have stopped because they would have needed to find a "proper" job just to get a living.

Podium finishers also get prize money, unlike in FIA series. So if you're good, you can gather quite a lot of money besides your regular salary too. 

 

Yes there are live streams. I'll PM you. 



#23 August

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 22:58

I remember reading that one reason for Formula Nippon having been such a great feeder series was it being more affordable than Formula 3000 International Championship before F3000 became a spec series.



#24 SonJR

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:07

Well done to Nakajima, congrats. Still feel it's kind of a shame he never got a second chance in F1. Although, to be fair, Williams probably gave him some 'second chances' in 2009  ;)

 

I have to admit I don't see a lot of Super Formula because of the time differences, but it's a great series. It's a bit of a shame it's vanished as a stepping stone to F1 in the last decade and a half or so. Part of this, I feel, is due to it being a refuge home for older drivers. Bit of a chicken and egg story probably and can't fault them for it as it certainly is a strong grid, but it's kind of a super-powered version of the GP2-issue with a lot of 'never going to make it'-drivers in the series basically reducing its significance and standing in teams eyes as a feeder class.



#25 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 23:19

Leimer will test in two weeks

Rosenqvist is also very likely to do the same.

 

Kirchhöfer and Palmer also are in negotations with teams.

 

And Kamui Kobayashi is also a candidat for this series.

 

That sounds very good for me...



#26 Imperial

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 10:03

I remember reading that one reason for Formula Nippon having been such a great feeder series was it being more affordable than Formula 3000 International Championship before F3000 became a spec series.


I think Japan was also a great place to drive due to the money to be made, not just spent.

I've seen Irvine, more than once, mention he did very well out of Japanese F3000.

I understand at the height of Formula Nippon, it was literally as big as F1 in Japan.

#27 noikeee

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 11:37

Leimer will test in two weeks

Rosenqvist is also very likely to do the same.

 

Kirchhöfer and Palmer also are in negotations with teams.

 

And Kamui Kobayashi is also a candidat for this series.

 

That sounds very good for me...

 

I'd prefer Kirchhofer to stay in Europe, despite not blowing the field away in GP3 I think he still has a decent shot of continuing to climb the ladder up to F1.

 

But yes that sounds like a strong field, and it's nice to see a credible open-wheeler alternative for these racers that don't quite make it to F1, beyond Indycar or waste of time zombie series like AutoGP.



#28 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 11:52

Kirchhöfer's manager told me that a move to SF need to move the living space to Japan and so that would be a big step. It sounded like it is a bit unlikely for Kirchhöfer now. But his problem for continuing in Europa is money...



#29 ronsingapore

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 14:59

Actually Super Formula / Formula Nippon / All Nippon F3000 was stronger in 90s, when many drivers have graduated to F1, like PDLR, Ralf Schu, Irvine, Salo, among many others. In 00s it sort of went into doldrums. Despite so, it could keep grooming future stars in current Audi drivers, which is fantastic. They showed strong determination, contribution and commitment into Japan series. I highly respect them, and am so happy they are getting due recognition by flourishing in international scene in WEC. Also kudos to Japan side personnel for finding and raising such exceptional talents.

Anyway that's cool if drivers like Palmer coming. SF needs fresh talents of new generation, that can hopefully follow Lotterer/Duval/Treluyer. They have one in Caldarelli but more the merrier. Ex-F1 drivers like Liuzzi and Karthikeyan add variety and makes nice mix, but priority should be younger talents.

 

Yes the organizer does want to expand into Asia, but there's two hurdles. First is that makers are too busy thinking about their own little things rather than cooperate in and explore grand scheme that is Asian market. Second is national sentiment in Asia esp that's bw Japan and China/Korea. Race in Korea almost happened last year but got screwed cos affected by those political disputes. It wont be so easy to hold races in China too. I think SF should be leading Asia in this field and be the Asian Series, involving other manufacturers and drivers from Korea/China as well of course, but winding road ahead. Hopefully Japanese makers and fans grow up and see bigger picture. Population in Japan is shrinking with less and less younger generation, so it's essential for SuperFormula/SuperGT as well as Japanese auto industry as a whole to expand into Asia, and it has to start NOW. Otherwise it will either disappear or end up becoming like AutoGP, and by that time, other series, most likely from China, will grow to be the Asian series.

 

Yeah that's the issue. Still, recent Japan F3 is producing F1 drivers sometimes in Sutil and Ericsson, but overall it needs more attention/exposure and interaction in and bw Europe. I believe such interaction would be mutually beneficial.

Good for talented Japanese/Asian drivers too, they get absolutely no chance in Europe without manufacture connection. For example Motoyama, multiple F-Nippon champion, very solid and fast driver, I highly rate him and think he deserved proper chance either in endurance or F1, but he's 43yo. it's such a shame he couldnt get such proper big chance at his peak. If he was 20 or 10 years younger, surely he should be driving a Nissan LMP1 in WEC next year.

 

 

 

Yes the organizer does want to expand into Asia, but there's two hurdles. First is that makers are too busy thinking about their own little things rather than cooperate in and explore grand scheme that is Asian market. Second is national sentiment in Asia esp that's bw Japan and China/Korea. Race in Korea almost happened last year but got screwed cos affected by those political disputes. It wont be so easy to hold races in China too. I think SF should be leading Asia in this field and be the Asian Series, involving other manufacturers and drivers from Korea/China as well of course, but winding road ahead. Hopefully Japanese makers and fans grow up and see bigger picture. Population in Japan is shrinking with less and less younger generation, so it's essential for SuperFormula/SuperGT as well as Japanese auto industry as a whole to expand into Asia, and it has to start NOW. Otherwise it will either disappear or end up becoming like AutoGP, and by that time, other series, most likely from China, will grow to be the Asian series.

 

 

 

It is going to be real tough for them to expand into East Asia; China and South Korea are the only two nation that have the cash and infrastructure to maintain tracks but there is really a lot of historical hatred -  I lived with China uni students as roommates and from the way they talk about Japan, there are simply too much baggage. Otherwise the Sepang Circuit at Malaysia is another possibility but F1 is already there......

 

Do they have a culture of pay drivers in Super Formula? I have been following it on youtube and the web but I find information to be somewhat sparse; but then again, maybe I am searching in the wrong places. If there is one thing I don't like, it is about pay drivers; I always felt that if F1 is one day to be really reformed, one reform should be that teams can only source their drivers from a select pool of eligible drivers i.e. drivers whom have already scored a minimum set of points in lesser races or won championships at lesser formula series; no truly capable driver should be deprived of participation due to lack of sponsorship cash; I've seen Justin Wilson's driving in Champcar/IndyCar and wondered why he was not in F1 - did some research and found out it was a combination of lack of cash and bad luck.

 

Anyway, Super Formula really needs to expand but it's going to be tough; I've been to Japan and it can be a very insular culture, even by Asian standards.



#30 Imperial

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 16:41

I've seen Justin Wilson's driving in Champcar/IndyCar and wondered why he was not in F1 - did some research and found out it was a combination of lack of cash and bad luck.


Justin was another person with an idea ahead of its time, selling himself to shareholders. It worked and it got him a start in F1 and decent career in Indycar. I'm amazed given the crowd-funding boom and how easy it is to get involved via the internet, that no driver is doing anything along those lines right now. But they will. Kobayashi did a diet-version of it, but some astute manager will set up a mega campaign (social media anyone?) and get people into shareholding. Wilson's was all done by paper and post, only serious investors bothered with it. Now it's easy to put £10.00 into something if you want.

Anyway, I digress....Super Formula.

I don't recall if Autosport magazine even run race reports for this. They used to for Nippon, although it went down to a few paragraphs in the end.

This all reminds me, I used to play a proper official English release of Formula Nippon on the Playstation, back in 1997 or 98 I think. That is a mark of its popularity at that time. It was quite the game, you started in karting, moved to F3 and into Nippon. I'm sure Aguri Suzuki used to pop up as your manager telling you how you were doing.

#31 AustinF1

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 19:54

In 12 seasons, Lotterer finished top 3 in the championship 8 times, but only has one title. Nakajima has 2 titles in the last 2 years (as team mate to Lotterer). I think Nakajima is underrated and Lotterer is quite overrated (in Le Mans / WEC too). 

Yep. Does anyone here doubt that either of these guys could be a competitive F1 driver?



#32 huisne

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 20:59

Yep. Does anyone here doubt that either of these guys could be a competitive F1 driver?

I think Nakajima would be a good F1 driver today. I have the feeling that he got into F1 too early, he needed more time to mature and develop, but now he keeps impressing me. And although his F1 stint was quite bad, he was not a complete disaster and showed some speed, so I think in his current form he would be decent in F1 too, although obviously not up there with the best.

 
Lotterer - hard to say as he never really got the opportunity in F1. I rate him lower than Nakajima but higher than some of the F1 guys, I think he would be somewhere in the lower midfield in F1 based on his abilities. But as I said it's really hard to judge. 


#33 ezequiel

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 23:08

huisne, on 09 Nov 2014 - 04:45, said:snapback.png

In 12 seasons, Lotterer finished top 3 in the championship 8 times, but only has one title. Nakajima has 2 titles in the last 2 years (as team mate to Lotterer). I think Nakajima is underrated and Lotterer is quite overrated (in Le Mans / WEC too).

 

Yep. Does anyone here doubt that either of these guys could be a competitive F1 driver?

 

Again, let's see: 2011 was the first season for them as teammates, and Kazuki's debut season too. Lotterer won the title winning 5 out of 7 championship rounds and missing one round (won by Nakajima). In 2012 Nakajima won the title and Lotterer was only 4th despite winning as many races as his teammate (2). Both contested the season in full. In 2013 Lotterer was 2nd in the standings despite missing 3 out of 7 races (!) and nevertheless tied in points with champion Naoki Yamamoto, which leads me to think he would have certainly achieved the title if not missing any race, while Nakajima finished 4th despite not missing a single round. This year Nakajima was champion racing the season in full, while Lotterer missed one race and finished 3rd. So I don't see why it is so clear that Nakajima is the better driver of the two. I would say it's quite a close call but the results must be analyzed in context.

 



#34 Myrvold

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:45

This all reminds me, I used to play a proper official English release of Formula Nippon on the Playstation, back in 1997 or 98 I think. That is a mark of its popularity at that time. It was quite the game, you started in karting, moved to F3 and into Nippon. I'm sure Aguri Suzuki used to pop up as your manager telling you how you were doing.


I think it was later, I do think came out in 99 or something.

Anyway, it was one of the worst games I had played by then. I seem to remember that I played that in CmR 2.0 around the same time, CmR 2.0 was superior.

#35 ronsingapore

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 05:31

Yep. Does anyone here doubt that either of these guys could be a competitive F1 driver?

We won't really know for sure until:

 

1) We put the current batch of F1 drivers in Formula Nippon cars

 

2) We put the current batch of Formula Nippon drivers in F1 cars

 

Then we see how they do in lap times and cornering speeds; then we can make a fair comparison.

 

Does anybody know why Formula Nippon is no longer as popular as it used to be?



#36 DanardiF1

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 05:40

We won't really know for sure until:

 

1) We put the current batch of F1 drivers in Formula Nippon cars

 

2) We put the current batch of Formula Nippon drivers in F1 cars

 

Then we see how they do in lap times and cornering speeds; then we can make a fair comparison.

 

Does anybody know why Formula Nippon is no longer as popular as it used to be?

 

An increase in saturation in Europe meaning there's more than one place that is considered to be in that rung below F1, so you have GP2, FR3.5, GP3... back in the days of Formula Nippon/Japanese F3000 there was just the regular European F3000 series and that was pretty much it for F1 aspirants... so the overspill of that rung in Europe came to Japan, or went to Indycar...



#37 ronsingapore

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 06:37

An increase in saturation in Europe meaning there's more than one place that is considered to be in that rung below F1, so you have GP2, FR3.5, GP3... back in the days of Formula Nippon/Japanese F3000 there was just the regular European F3000 series and that was pretty much it for F1 aspirants... so the overspill of that rung in Europe came to Japan, or went to Indycar...

Thanks! All this was slightly before my time, and the history on the internet is pretty confusing....even in the past 10 years, there is a whole range of racing series: GP2, Formula Renault, Formula BMW, A1GP, AutoGP world series, International Formula Masters, and so on and forth....

 

I have been trying to create my own flowchart of how the different series ranked against each other in terms of engine/technological development; and realised it is quite impossible, it does not even even the slightest resemblance to the different pyramid divisions in other sports like football.


Edited by ronsingapore, 03 December 2014 - 06:46.


#38 AllenT

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 06:00

 

 

 
Kamui Kobayashi
I visited at Team Le Mans factory on last Friday for the seat fitting of SF14. Thanks to mechanics detailed jobs, I think I had a one of the best seat made. Looking forward to drive Super Formula SF14 on this Wednesday and Thursday.

 

10349980_712082108887894_356939474462202

10846221_712082125554559_592603022861372



#39 Nemo1965

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 07:58

Thanks! All this was slightly before my time, and the history on the internet is pretty confusing....even in the past 10 years, there is a whole range of racing series: GP2, Formula Renault, Formula BMW, A1GP, AutoGP world series, International Formula Masters, and so on and forth....

 

I have been trying to create my own flowchart of how the different series ranked against each other in terms of engine/technological development; and realised it is quite impossible, it does not even even the slightest resemblance to the different pyramid divisions in other sports like football.

 

The remarkable thing I find is that Andre Lotterer F1 debut in Spa, at least for, comes into a new light. Everytime the line 'He comes straight out WEC and he is faster than Ericcson', everytime the impression that he was not a single seater racer... while, of course he was and is.



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#40 Murl

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 10:22

Top drivers are definitely paid, don't know about all the drivers. But that's one of the main reasons why European or South American drivers came to Japan , at least in past years - they didn't have money to pay for a seat in Europe, and they needed to be paid (as one gets paid for his job) because they didn't come from rich families. They got that in Japan, they could remain professional drivers and get paid for their job. Otherwise, these drivers' careers would have stopped because they would have needed to find a "proper" job just to get a living.

Podium finishers also get prize money, unlike in FIA series. So if you're good, you can gather quite a lot of money besides your regular salary too. 

 

Yes there are live streams. I'll PM you. 

 

 

There is a lot to like about a series where professional drivers race each other.

 

It seems like so much of F1 and feeders are now largely paid for drives. Nice work if you can get it.



#41 crbassassin

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 12:44

Why are they following F1's snow plow front wings and the dreaded narrow rear wings?



#42 Peat

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 17:14

Because Dallara......



#43 RedRabbit

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 09:35

I think Japan was also a great place to drive due to the money to be made, not just spent.

I've seen Irvine, more than once, mention he did very well out of Japanese F3000.

I understand at the height of Formula Nippon, it was literally as big as F1 in Japan.

 

Which is how it should be. Race drivers work just as hard as other athletes, it's stupid to think they have to pay to do their jobs. It would be great to have a strong "Division 1" set of motorsport categories for drivers to pursue a proper career in other than F1, for which they could be properly rewarded. And even better if series like this become a destination series for drivers, rather than just a "feeder" for F1.

 

Now that I think about it, why is everything below F1 regarded as a feeder series? GP2 are properly powerful race cars with 600hp and I've just learned the 2014 SF cars are kicking out around 540hp! Yet they seem to get very little international coverage or respect. I think if they were seen as more of a career series than something for juniors passing through either to F1 or obscurity or both, and driver's made a name for themselves in the series, it would get more attention from media houses.



#44 markeimas27

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 09:48

Here's the funny thing. For all the money needed to design and manufacture and race a Formula 1 car, if Kobayashi lands a top drive he will be lapping Suzuka at the same speed and lap times in Super Formula as he was in F1.

 

Super Formula Pole - Suzuka 2014

 

1.37.507 (Kazuki Nakajima)

 

Formula 1 21st Grid - Suzuka 2014

 

1:37.015 (Kamui Kobayashi)

 

And here's the even funnier thing. In Super Formula (and I know this because Liuzzi has been a mate of mine for a few years now) Kobayashi will get paid quite handsomely and will be living at home in Japan. 

 

Bit of a no brainer for him!



#45 KinoNoNo

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 16:56

Well it looks like KK landed on his feet.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117104



#46 TF110

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 20:31

Id rather see Kobayashi in the TS040 in 2015. Super Formula is a good alternative though. Seeing him immediately at the top shows his skill and speed imo. He was just ahead of Nakajima in the morning session, then 6-tenths clear of everyone in the afternoon. Maybe that was down to qualifying runs, but his speed is apparent.

Edited by TF110, 10 December 2014 - 20:34.


#47 aguri

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 04:10

When is the next testing session?

 

What happened to the rumors that Jolyon Palmer might be involved?



#48 HistoryFan

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 19:59

According to racingblog it was not said that there will be the current GP2 champion at the test in Okayama but one GP2 champion. And that's the case with Fabio Leimer.



#49 mtknot

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 15:08

Interesting that these cars look like they have more downforce / useable power than the caterham kobayashi drove this year. 



#50 ronsingapore

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 16:23

Just to ask, why hasn't yet a Japanese driver or team gotten a world championship at F1? the quality of drivers is evidently respectable at Super Formula and their consructors are not too bad, yet there is no migration to outside Japan. and also, their constructors' experience in F1 (Toyota and Honda) have not been outstanding either.